2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
2
20%
Raiders 1-12
0
No votes
Draw
0
No votes
Sharks 1-12
3
30%
Sharks 13+
5
50%
 
Total votes: 10

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Leebola
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Leebola »

Raider47 wrote: April 28, 2024, 8:42 pm We had 31 tackles into their 20 as opposed to their 12 in ours.

We lost 40-0. Is that one of the most awful stats ever?

40-0.
Absolute indictment on the attack coaching. It is just unfathomable how the red-zone attack is still a shambles, ten years after supercoach took the reins.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by President Clinton »

Raider47 wrote: April 28, 2024, 8:42 pm We had 31 tackles into their 20 as opposed to their 12 in ours.

We lost 40-0. Is that one of the most awful stats ever?

40-0.
I know it sounds strange, but obviously our defence was so bad that there wasn’t a chance that they’d have a high number of tackles in our 20.

It just reinforces their attack was effective and ours was, well lead by Levi and Starling. Kinda makes perfect sense.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

Raider47 wrote: April 28, 2024, 8:42 pm We had 31 tackles into their 20 as opposed to their 12 in ours.

We lost 40-0. Is that one of the most awful stats ever?

40-0.
They only had 12 tackles in our 20 because we let them score every time the were there. Didn't need any repeat sets or sustained pressure. They just walked right through our defense.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Canberra Milk »

rayden83 wrote: April 28, 2024, 7:18 pm Chevy looks far too underdone to be playing first grade. What is his skills base exactly? He isn’t strong and doesn’t appear particularly fast. Needs another year or two in reserves. Savage back to full back. Our only X factor wasted on the wing.
In the admittedly little I saw of him in Cup, I thought he looked a good passer / link man, especially in the attacking 20, and good supporter up the middle.

Haven't seen it yet in firsts and could be because of his age, our structure, him just getting used to the pace and physicality, confidence in shouting for the ball... time will tell. To be fair though, Brisbane and Sharks are really firing at the moment, not easy first two games at all

I think once he gets bigger, as long as he doesn't lose pace, he could be a Gutherson type. Not sure he'll get any faster but he might actually end up being pretty strong
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Colk »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 28, 2024, 8:16 pm
Colk wrote:
-PJ- wrote: April 28, 2024, 6:46 pm Look..

After last week v Donkeys I was calm and understanding of our situation.

Our transition will be long and painful.

Unfortunately we will cop many more pastings until our very young and inexperienced spine get a feel.

I’m prepared for that, weve waited a very very long time..a couple more seasons won’t kill me.
The problem is that the team still has to be competitive for this idea to work. You bring young players in that’s fine (and that is the way we should go in order to get a superstar or two) but putting them in before they are a) ready or b) in an absolute c*** side which is getting pasted every week is absolutely counterproductive. They either don’t reach their potential because their confidence is completely shot or they leave at the first offer they get
There was always a risk that this young team would be over their heads at NRL level.

The thing for me is there were 4 players in today's lineup (maybe 5) who hurt us badly and should be replaced in some way; Levi, Schiller, Sasagi, Starling and maybe Weekes, none of which are the young kids we are building around.

There's no question we got pumped today by an experienced and well drilled team, but there were some really good signs from most of the young fellas.

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Don’t worry mate I’m not having a go at Strange or Stewart for example but what I’m worried is that they get sucked into vortex if you will after a while. It does happen you only have to look at promising players at s*** clubs. They lose confidence and regress after a while and essentially start picking up habits formed by being in an ordinary system.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Botman »

If you want to know how bad Danny Levi was tonight...
He's gotten 79 total votes in the POTY so far this season. 13 of those points (a staggering 16%!!) have come from one single poster... and even he couldnt bring himself to give the bloke points this week.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by yeh raiders »

Danny Levi stinks.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Azza »

There are literally no positives to come out of that game. We were insipid. That's as bad as the shellacking we copped from Penrith at home last year, and also on par with the 70-32 loss to the Knights that made Captain Dingleberry / Botman famous.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

Looking at the stats, the game for the most part is pretty even, they ran for 400m more

The glaring stat is 64 missed tackles, that's ridiculous. That suggests they'd been beaten before they got off the bus. Whether it was Fogartys injury or the Brisbane game was draining mentally, they just didn't turn up to play

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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

Northern Raider wrote:
Raider47 wrote: April 28, 2024, 8:42 pm We had 31 tackles into their 20 as opposed to their 12 in ours.

We lost 40-0. Is that one of the most awful stats ever?

40-0.
They only had 12 tackles in our 20 because we let them score every time the were there. Didn't need any repeat sets or sustained pressure. They just walked right through our defense.
Bingo.

Our attack sucked because we have a dingleberry at 9 and the backline has 5 NRL games between them.

The Cronulla attack was efficient because not a single player in our team defended well.

64 missed tackles. **** shambles.

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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Botman »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: April 28, 2024, 5:34 pm
Botman wrote: April 28, 2024, 5:21 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 28, 2024, 5:16 pm Hudson Young's lucky we've got the problems we do in the edge position, otherwise he should be facing a stint in reggies
He's been very disappointing from the games ive seen
We need MUCH better from him
All evidence is that he doesn't have much better to give. His "bad streak of form" has run about four times longer than his good streak did.
Never wrong, only early.
His edge play leaves a lot to be desired.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by radicalraider »

We are the worst team in the comp. No doubt.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Botman »

radicalraider wrote: April 28, 2024, 10:24 pm We are the worst team in the comp. No doubt.
Respect the game
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Finchy »

radicalraider wrote: April 28, 2024, 10:24 pm We are the worst team in the comp. No doubt.
Agreed. I see Souths and Titans jumping us over the next few weeks
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Colk »

Finchy wrote: April 28, 2024, 10:29 pm
radicalraider wrote: April 28, 2024, 10:24 pm We are the worst team in the comp. No doubt.
Agreed. I see Souths and Titans jumping us over the next few weeks
I was laughed at for saying exactly the same thing last week. I didn’t like saying but I see other teams improving or at least having the ability to pull themselves out of their current predicaments. I just don’t see it with us.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Lui_Bon »

I'm just glad I couldn't go, especially given the double whammy of milestone + novelty shirt.

So now that most of the excoriation has already been posted, I won't comment on Levi other than to say I was astounded that he made his way back onto the field for the last ten or so minutes. If anything that's a judgement on how much nothing Starling is bringing. Did we all notice the number of times he faked one way and then passed very slowly back to where he was always going to go? At least once he even ran around in a little circle before passing - I'm sure that baffled the markers...

Smithies... why was he constantly at first receiver? Blame inexperienced halves for not rushing in and demanding the ball, but Smithies is a little more experienced and should at least know enough to get out of the way. He's a tackling machine and seems quite good at hitups - he shouldn't be trying to resemble a ball-playing lock. If it's not on the coaching it's on him.

Sasagi - yeah good reserve grader right now.

Hudson Young is not playing well. If we had two better options he'd be back in Cup, too.

James Schiller is surely not worth persisting with either.

Actually, can we wake up tomorrow with a new team?
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Lui_Bon »

Also, for a sense of perspective, Jesse Ramian is apparently 27, and just starting to get some recognition. I think Kris and Timoko are 24, and the rest are 18, 19, 21. We are going to have to wait a few years, but at least it means there's plenty of time to recruit a decent dummy half.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by twistedbydesign »

Going to be a long year. Frankly, it's what most of us expected - a couple of decent wins to start perhaps inflated the hopes of some, but we were only ever a couple of injuries away from a very weak team.

There are some holes which we clearly can't fix in the immediate term. Edge backrower is the most obvious - Hudson Young has been appalling for the best part of a year but there just isn't anyone else.

There are, however, some areas where we can improve, or at least use the season to take a look at the options we have. We need to find a way to get Sanders down here early and start to build his combinations with our kids in the spine. In what looks like a lost season for both clubs this feels like something we should be able to get done.

There is nothing more to be said about the hooker position. That said, if we're to expand the problem to "painful predictability around the ruck", then I'm afraid to say that it's time to acknowledge Morgan Smithies is part of the problem. His work is so slow and cumbersome, honestly he doesn't look any more natural in the role than Horse did, and two months in we're still yet to see even the slightest hint of ballplaying ability. I know he's young and it's still only early days, but this one worries me a lot as we went out and got a guy for a role he seems ill-suited too. I would like to see us get some games into Puru to at least understand if he can add a little variety in the middle third.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Lui_Bon »

twistedbydesign wrote: April 28, 2024, 11:55 pm if we're to expand the problem to "painful predictability around the ruck", then I'm afraid to say that it's time to acknowledge Morgan Smithies is part of the problem. His work is so slow and cumbersome, honestly he doesn't look any more natural in the role than Horse did, and two months in we're still yet to see even the slightest hint of ballplaying ability. I know he's young and it's still only early days, but this one worries me a lot as we went out and got a guy for a role he seems ill-suited too. I would like to see us get some games into Puru to at least understand if he can add a little variety in the middle third.
All the rest is true, and I completely agree that Smithies' work is cumbersome, but I'm really not sure that he was recruited to be a ball playing lock. He never looked like anything but a tackler, and maybe a pretty average hitup guy, but mostly an indefatigable tackler. So whether it's his fault he's getting into that first/second receiver role, or his teammates for not stepping up before him, or coaches trying to make him do what he's not suited to, I don't know. In any case he's pretty bad at it.

Horse actually looked better. And since Smithies looked kind of stuffed for a fair while, maybe either Puru or Sasagi on the bench to replace him might help?

I guess that means we'd need to actually sort out our dummy halves. Never has there been a better description.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Canberra Milk »

They're clearly trying to make Smithies a ballplaying lock. And yep Horse at 13 was better
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by RedRaider »

-TW- wrote: April 28, 2024, 9:40 pm Looking at the stats, the game for the most part is pretty even, they ran for 400m more

The glaring stat is 64 missed tackles, that's ridiculous. That suggests they'd been beaten before they got off the bus. Whether it was Fogartys injury or the Brisbane game was draining mentally, they just didn't turn up to play

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100% agree TW the senior players in particular did not turn up. Sticky has a contract for 2025 so nothing will be done about the head coach. However, Wayne Bennett is looking for a job for next year and maybe beyond. I would like to see him back at the club with the role of overhauling the defence through all grades. Make us competitive when we don't have the ball, like the top sides. His Dolphins are currently 5th in terms of points against. He might have one or two ideas about attacking structure as well. Also good news for him is that he won't have to front press conferences with that type of role.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

I'd like to see Wayne Bennett back here as head coach with an assistant like Cameron Smith or Cooper Cronk to take over.

I've had enough of Ricky and his coaching. We have given it a good try but it's time to move on. He can't coach tactics or technical aspects of the game. He cannot attract elite players to join the club.
I actually think he may retire after next year as he cannot handle 40 point floggings every week due to his competitive nature.

Furner should leave with him as well.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by dubby »

That was a horrible performance.

The only player for mine who really had a go was Timoko. Strange tried as well.

The Sharks were faster and ran harder, and our pack never recovered.

64 missed tackles is disgraceful. Ten of them from Sasagi! Ten!

That missed tackle from Tapine kinda summed up the game. Actually no, it was Levi spilling the ball for no reason.

I do hope Rick sends Schiller back to Cup. His feeble defence :nooo

Levi, Schiller, Sasagi, can all go back to Cup, while I hope Puru, Woolford and maybe Hola get a chance. We need a bit of experience so maybe Cotric or Hoppa on the wing, or do we blood Asomua?
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by dubby »

I will note that this is a very inexperienced backline. And we are really going to struggle without a quality 7 until Fogarty returns.

Which makes me think Cook ahead of Weekes next week.

I'm still very disappointed with our forwards, they've been dominated by the Sharks twice now.

We all knew (in our heads anyway) this was a transition year with so many rookies.

Injuries to Horsburgh, Hosking and Fogarty have really tested our depth.

Heads up lads. Let's try to enjoy the growth of Strange, Chevy etc
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by TongueFTW »

Are we ever going to learn our lesson regarding different body shapes in the pack? Any time we play a team with a decent back 5, we struggle to contain their footwork and speed in the middle (exhibit A, any time we play Penrith). This is partly because of the same body shapes in the middle, we need to mix it with a more mobile lock.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Regs Revolution »

I was actually optimistic about our loss against the Broncos. But last night was just putrid. That was a bad loss. Body language from the onset was wrong.

I hate it when we’re always talking about the grind and playing that tit for tat football and that’s our strengths, it’s not! Anytime another team out grinds us, we fold quicker than super man on laundry day.

Tempted to make wholesale changes but tbh, it could only compound the issues.

Losing Fog was massive and he isn’t even a top tier 7, that’s how much of a shambles we are without him.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Bloody_Burnham »

That was a team of seasoned vets in its prime competing for a premiership vs a team full of youth trying to prove that they belong. The most disappointing aspect of that drubbing was the weak performances from our most experienced players.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

dubby wrote:That was a horrible performance.

The only player for mine who really had a go was Timoko. Strange tried as well.

The Sharks were faster and ran harder, and our pack never recovered.

64 missed tackles is disgraceful. Ten of them from Sasagi! Ten!

That missed tackle from Tapine kinda summed up the game. Actually no, it was Levi spilling the ball for no reason.

I do hope Rick sends Schiller back to Cup. His feeble defence :nooo

Levi, Schiller, Sasagi, can all go back to Cup, while I hope Puru, Woolford and maybe Hola get a chance. We need a bit of experience so maybe Cotric or Hoppa on the wing, or do we blood Asomua?
I'm not sure what the NRL record is for missed tackles in a game or by an individual player, but 64/10 must be right up there. Huddo with 6 misses and equally bad defence from our starting front rowers meant our outside backs were barely tested, but (excepting Timoko) they were still ordinary in their decision making.

Both the effort and execution after the first 15 minutes was terrible. These are professional athletes playing in front of a great crowd. It was really disappointing.

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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by zim »

That performance was almost as putrid as the bus ride in. Get your **** together GIO.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Ilanraiders »

Azza wrote: April 28, 2024, 9:27 pm There are literally no positives to come out of that game. We were insipid. That's as bad as the shellacking we copped from Penrith at home last year, and also on par with the 70-32 loss to the Knights that made Captain Dingleberry / Botman famous.
Only positive is the young guys have one more game under their belt.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Azza »

Denting the young guys' confidence through miserable thrashings like that doesn't do them much benefit I think.

Sadly, as Chief Wiggum once said - "this is gonna get worse before it gets better"
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by dubby »

Seiffert82 wrote:
dubby wrote:That was a horrible performance.

The only player for mine who really had a go was Timoko. Strange tried as well.

The Sharks were faster and ran harder, and our pack never recovered.

64 missed tackles is disgraceful. Ten of them from Sasagi! Ten!

That missed tackle from Tapine kinda summed up the game. Actually no, it was Levi spilling the ball for no reason.

I do hope Rick sends Schiller back to Cup. His feeble defence :nooo

Levi, Schiller, Sasagi, can all go back to Cup, while I hope Puru, Woolford and maybe Hola get a chance. We need a bit of experience so maybe Cotric or Hoppa on the wing, or do we blood Asomua?
I'm not sure what the NRL record is for missed tackles in a game or by an individual player, but 64/10 must be right up there. Huddo with 6 misses and equally bad defence from our starting front rowers meant our outside backs were barely tested, but (excepting Timoko) they were still ordinary in their decision making.

Both the effort and execution after the first 15 minutes was terrible. These are professional athletes playing in front of a great crowd. It was really disappointing.

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Last year both EW and Young were in the top 15 for missed tackles.

I recall Chris Sandow missing a heap Years ago.....

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

rayden83 wrote: April 28, 2024, 7:18 pm Both Cook and Woolford are crap and won’t change anything. There’s a reason why Stuart tried to “upgrade” Woolford with a player that’s been rejected from 3 NRL clubs. Has nothing to do with “personal vendettas” and everything to do with being not very good. Levi has been OK this year, popped up with some tries, distribution generally pretty good, I hate him for bombing that try but he isn’t the reason we conceded 40.

Chevy looks far too underdone to be playing first grade. What is his skills base exactly? He isn’t strong and doesn’t appear particularly fast. Needs another year or two in reserves. Savage back to full back. Our only X factor wasted on the wing.

Weekes also not a half back. It’s hard to win games when we have no genuine back up half back with absolutely no ability to manage or dictate the attack. The other half is 2-3 seasons away from being serviceable at first grade level.
Woolford actually IS better than Levi. Even apart from eye test and intagibles such as how much better the team plays when he's orchestrating... His defence is measurably better- I've posted the stats recently. There isn't a hooker in the comp with more line break causes than Levi.

Woolford's attacking stats are better. Levi is yet to register a single LBA or TA. Figures entirely consistent with his entire career so far I might add.

The idea that "oh just pick Levi" because Woolf isn't better doesn't hold up. He IS much better. He's not a worldbeater but he's good at the core hooker job of passing and getting the team rolling and occasionally is able to deceive. Levi is measurably the worst hooker going around has been for years.

He's not singly to blame for the loss, there's 12 other blokes out there. But when the game is still live and your exciting youngsters set up a certain try only for the "senior player" to stinkify it and it's a 12 pointer turnaround then yeah, he actually was part of a quite significant turning point.

Add to that missing tackles letting people pour through the middle and taking awful options like running himself diagonal to the sort side and dying with the ball after we've just made a break midfield and are all set up open side- again when the game was still live. Those two plays sum up his faults. Plodder. Woolford at least can read a game and pass.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Green Blogger »

Rugby League is a simple game. The eyeball test last night clearly showed that with the ball Cronulla ran straight and hard and dominated the advantage line. Our widely touted forward pack routinely falls into the trap of thinking that dancing footwork at the line is how you make ground. In so many of our losses it is apparent that the run straight run hard mentality is what wins the game, but rarely do I watch the Raiders and think that we understand that philosophy.
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by papabear »

Watching Hudson young now compared to when he first came in.

Something seems off, he seems bog bog average nowadays.

Worst part is he hasn’t lost any confidence and he takes the ball so often to take **** hit ups, so often.

Whitehead was washed three years ago but even he could utilise kris and savage better then whitehead.
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