2024 Round 2 v Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

[Raiders_Pat]

Worth noting that Hopoate also tends to get more carries because teams always kick to him

[Botman]

Devils advocate, but the argument is he is the right role player for the game plan. Ricky's going all in on backs taking 80% of the yardage runs so the middles can be used in attacking positions and to manage their workload. If he takes out Hoppa, and he doesn't trust the other backs to pick up his slack, the game plan fails.

But what does he expect? That the hooker is going to turn around and have no one to throw it too?
The only reason Hoppa does the work he does is because he's willing and the only reason the others do less is because he's willing.

If anything it encourages better ball carriers to be lazy... no need to come in and take a hit up that might net up 8-9 yards... taking him out will force those guys to pick up their own work rate to cover the loss and that would be a net benefit to the team

Understand you're being devils advocate so not directing this at you, just saying i think there are very easy and simple answers to those conerns. It is what it is, i keep saying to myself "dont get back into this", because it's pointless, Stuart's going to keep picking him, and we're just going to have to deal with it and hope his negative impacts on the team outside of hard carry's is limited.

Stuart's always got his favourite little pet projects and he's always too late to give up on them... it's frustrating.
I just hope Asomua gets a crack soon and puts an end to this one.

[LimeGreenMachine]

Cotric isn't super fast at turning and chasing, he's probably below average but he's able to overcome that a little bit because he reads the play very well so is able to anticipate that better
Where as if Hoppa is not the slowest turn and chase player in the league he'd top 5 for sure.

Without mentioning metres and hit ups, i'd love someone to tell me what they think Hopoate brings to the team.
Safe under the high ball? Not really.
Good offload? Na, that's not his game.
Creates tackle breaks and line breaks? Occasionally but for the most part he's done on first contact. 23 hit ups and not a single TB on the weekend.
Point of difference speed element? No chance
Sound defensively? God no, he's a liability.

If he maintains 23 hit ups this week, let's be generous and assume a hit up takes 10 seconds, that's 230 seconds of game time... lets be generous again, round it up to 4 minutes of play... what does he do in the other 76 minutes of a football game that is at NRL standard?

Devils advocate, but the argument is he is the right role player for the game plan. Ricky's going all in on backs taking 80% of the yardage runs so the middles can be used in attacking positions and to manage their workload. If he takes out Hoppa, and he doesn't trust the other backs to pick up his slack, the game plan fails.

I still agree with you and I don't think the gameplan survives the other downsides from this particular selection but I am not surprised Ricky did it. Honestly some part of me almost likes to see Ricky doubling down on a gameplan so much that it might end up proving a point of difference with the other sides. Week 1 it looked like it could.

Yes its Rickys game plan. And he will do that job for Ricky.
The argument is that role can be shared amongst the other backline players and the forwards.
Most sets from the weekend only 2 forwards were used in the 6 tackle set each set. Backs took the rest.

[Green Machine 2011]

Ahhh didn’t want it but can live with it. At least we know the centres are locks barring injury or suspension. We have Strange as a lock for now and Ata a lock. I’m hoping Savage is above Hoppa on the wing ranks but not sure.

One change to a winning team. Hoppa will chew up metres but may leak points with his lack of pace.

Have had much worse TLT

[BadnMean]

Cotric isn't super fast at turning and chasing, he's probably below average but he's able to overcome that a little bit because he reads the play very well so is able to anticipate that better
Where as if Hoppa is not the slowest turn and chase player in the league he'd top 5 for sure.

Without mentioning metres and hit ups, i'd love someone to tell me what they think Hopoate brings to the team.
Safe under the high ball? Not really.
Good offload? Na, that's not his game.
Creates tackle breaks and line breaks? Occasionally but for the most part he's done on first contact. 23 hit ups and not a single TB on the weekend.
Point of difference speed element? No chance
Sound defensively? God no, he's a liability.

If he maintains 23 hit ups this week, let's be generous and assume a hit up takes 10 seconds, that's 230 seconds of game time... lets be generous again, round it up to 4 minutes of play... what does he do in the other 76 minutes of a football game that is at NRL standard?

Devils advocate, but the argument is he is the right role player for the game plan. Ricky's going all in on backs taking 80% of the yardage runs so the middles can be used in attacking positions and to manage their workload. If he takes out Hoppa, and he doesn't trust the other backs to pick up his slack, the game plan fails.

I still agree with you and I don't think the gameplan survives the other downsides from this particular selection but I am not surprised Ricky did it. Honestly some part of me almost likes to see Ricky doubling down on a gameplan so much that it might end up proving a point of difference with the other sides. Week 1 it looked like it could.

Logical fallacy #1 Did you not see last season? That gameplan stinks.

Logical fallacy #2 Presumes that Kris- who was praised to high heaven all last season for his strong direct kick return metres- will be a significant loss in metres if he replaces Hoppa and his strong direct metres... Not proven and not proven significant.

One of those guys is at/near rep level in all regards. One is at/near reggies level in most regards.

I don't see how the lesser player improves the game plan?

And if we REALLY want to talk about Hoppa and yards (whick Kris would happily do)- how about X Savage making 8.3m yards per run -WHAT 1m more? despite being "driven back all the time"- because he can accelerate and even break the line on occasion...

[NoMan]

I don't think the gameplan is the same as last year, its more like last year on steroids. Hard to say how much of that is down to the execution vs the plan itself, because they never put a consistent 80 or even 40 together last year.

It's not Kris vs Hoppa its Hoppa vs Cotric. Kris has never put up 15+ runs as a center. He would pick some slack up no doubt, but maybe Ricky doesn't want him doing it.

The lesser player improves the game plan if he fits the system better. The champion team beats the team of champions etc....

[Botman]

absolutely get what you're saying... but if the system relies on Albert Hopoate... with all due respect, find a new **** system

[NoMan]

Fair call

[BadnMean]

I don't think the gameplan is the same as last year, its more like last year on steroids. Hard to say how much of that is down to the execution vs the plan itself, because they never put a consistent 80 or even 40 together last year.

It's not Kris vs Hoppa its Hoppa vs Cotric. Kris has never put up 15+ runs as a center. He would pick some slack up no doubt, but maybe Ricky doesn't want him doing it.

The lesser player improves the game plan if he fits the system better. The champion team beats the team of champions etc....

Yeah but Hoppa played 20 games last year and we were not a champion team. We sucked beacuse we were slow and easily beaten on the edges when Hoppa was there. Kris shone in his games at centre.

I repeat again- an extra 1 m on ruck outs is not really a needle mover. (and again, stats show him at less yards and lb's- isn't that the guy you want making less runs because he's less of a threat?)

[Botman]

In fairness i think NoMan gets it and is agreement, he is just putting forth a credible counter argument... which i appreciate, i like when thoughtful people with good footy knowledge put forth the counter for consideration. Even if you dont buy it all the way it is a good exercise to think about things from a different perspective

[Finchy]

Bula, Koroisau, and Bateman are our biggest concerns and their biggest scoring threats against us.

Holy **** they really are in a world of pain.

Bula is the poor man's Kailyn Ponga, Koroisau is the poor man's Damian Cook and Bateman is the poor man's Kenny Bromwich.

And by that I mean they are all well past their best, except for Bula, who was never particularly good. And by poor man's, I mean they are all likely horrendously overpaid because of who they play for.

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Nah Bula is a gun. Wouldn't surprise me if the Roosters try to poach him at some point. Koroisau is NSW's best hooker and is better than Cook, and likes playing us. Bateman is largely past it, but will definitely be up for this clash. Bula and Bateman nearly got them the win against us last year, both scored tries.

[Botman]

Agreed
Bula is a very good young player
He’s got a lot of work to do in his game but the talent is so evidently clear to me

He and Api would be who I’d be worried about

[Rick]

Wonder how much playing the week 1 bye team in week 2 will be a factor.

Given it’s the first week I think it will benefit us especially since we have a long turn around. We should be fitter for the run and also less clunky.

Good time to play a team after a bye.


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[BJ]

Wonder how much playing the week 1 bye team in week 2 will be a factor.

Given it’s the first week I think it will benefit us especially since we have a long turn around. We should be fitter for the run and also less clunky.

Good time to play a team after a bye.


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The upsets last week certainly highlights that you can’t be ten percent off your game in the early rounds.

Things will settle down over the year but the Tigers will have some hungry footballers.

[gerg]

"I really was [nervous] for second there," Guler said. "I thought I might be gone because they've been cracking down on the leg lifts. But once I heard that I was fined I was pretty relieved."

Leg lift? It was for a hip drop wasn’t it?

Yes, blatant one at that

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They started going easier on them last year. Carrigan started escaping punishment around Origin time and the NRL dialed it back a bit.

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[gerg]

I'm pretty OK with the Rapa/Savage fullback combo, waiting for Stewart.

Bula strikes me as the type of player Savage would be without some form of coaching intervention.

Hopefully he works out for their sake. He does have some talent, and obvious speed to burn.

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I think he is slightly overrated. He was the only positive player in a dreadful backline last year, which made him look better than he actually is. Will be interesting to see how he develops over the next few years.

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[Regs Revolution]

Sorry Seif, completely wrong on Bula. He could and likely will be a very good player. Whack him around a better team and environment and watch what he could do. Imagine if he were in the Melbourne or Panthers system.

I’ll put money on Brooks having a blinder this year. The moment he left that shambles of a club, he was always going to be a better player for it. A small sample size, but in his first game, he was very good.

Point is you have Bula who is shining in a team that has got consecutive wooden spoons. You have to pay that.

[Raidernation]

Assume savage is there to also back up rapa then the question is who is better hoppa or cotric.
Hoppa is better rucking it out,
Cotric is better defensively,
Hoppa was better in attack last game.

Either hoppa gets better in defence or cotric gets better rucking it out. It's not anymore complicated than that. The fact that hoppa put in the work from centre is impressive. I thought across the board we looked faster and stronger than last year. Best had timoko in his back pocket in the final and this game timoko looked like a beast!
All of this is to say last year might not be a good indication of everyone's level. The strength and conditioning coach looks like he did a great job this off-season.

[zim]

Just on Hoppa, I wonder what the forum’s thoughts would be if someone else came into the team and got 166m, 1 try assist,1 line break assist and 2 offloads from centre and whether we wouldn’t be a touch more positive in our reviews of his performance.

Sure, we’ve got to take Hoppa’s previous performances into account but he demonstrated more ball-playing ability against the Knights than we’ve seen pretty much ever before, which might just be a one-off or a sign he’s increasing his repertoire.

Personally, I’m okay if Hoppa holds his spot for a few more weeks if he keeps playing like last week.

If he looks at video of how he was competing for bombs while at centre and thinks to himself "Hey, why can't I do that elsewhere on the field instead of taking a nap?" then I'll start being more positive towards him as a winger.
He was far better in round 1 than he was in the trials.

It's a very different kettle of fish competing for a bomb in attack, with no genuine pressure to take the ball, compared with playing fullback and being exposed to a shot in the ribs or spilling the ball in bad field position.

Are you trying to say he should be given a pass for not doing the most basic part of catching a bomb (staying upright until you have the ball) because it's in a more difficult position?
Surely you're not trying to justify the laying on the ground before the ball lands as a legitimate technique for catching a bomb?
The idea that bombs are harder to catch at wing and fullback is not really new stuff and seems to be on a few people's minds when selecting Cotric instead of hoppa.

No. Hopoate is a terrible fullback under the bomb. Terrible. I absolutely want Cotric in the team over him.

I'm saying the way Hopoate attacked bombs in attack just highlights how nervous he is in attacking bombs in defence. He's so crap at it that it has become a psychological issue...to the extent he now refuses to jump for the ball.

His defensive reads on the wing are also often poor. Hopefully that improves playing outside of a decent centre if he stays in the team for a period of time.

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Roger that.

[greeneyed]

'I don't think the boys know': How Emre Guler tackles Ramadan and footy

For Raiders prop Emre Guler this week marks the start of an incredible juggling act of religion and footy. Ramadan began on Monday evening and for the next month, Muslims around the world will be fasting from sunrise to sunset. Guler doesn't claim to follow the fasting tradition as strictly as Sonny Bill Williams famously did during his playing career. However, he does observe Ramadan the best he can, fasting during days off or when he has a lighter training schedule.

"You can eat in the middle of the night, but you fast through the whole day - no water, no food," Guler said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

[Seiffert82]

Bula, Koroisau, and Bateman are our biggest concerns and their biggest scoring threats against us.

Holy **** they really are in a world of pain.

Bula is the poor man's Kailyn Ponga, Koroisau is the poor man's Damian Cook and Bateman is the poor man's Kenny Bromwich.

And by that I mean they are all well past their best, except for Bula, who was never particularly good. And by poor man's, I mean they are all likely horrendously overpaid because of who they play for.

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Nah Bula is a gun. Wouldn't surprise me if the Roosters try to poach him at some point. Koroisau is NSW's best hooker and is better than Cook, and likes playing us. Bateman is largely past it, but will definitely be up for this clash. Bula and Bateman nearly got them the win against us last year, both scored tries.

There's definitely lots of improvement for him to make in his game. Hopefully for the Tigers sake he continues the positive trajectory.

He may be a gun in the making, but at this stage IMO he's at the Matt Dufty end of the gun scale, than the Ryan Papenhuyzen end.

This weekend I'm looking for Fog to attack him with the high ball and for our kick chase to shut him down.

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[julian87]

Very disappointed to see Hopoate there. But I guess at least it’s over Cotric rather than Savage.

[julian87]

Just on Hoppa, I wonder what the forum’s thoughts would be if someone else came into the team and got 166m, 1 try assist,1 line break assist and 2 offloads from centre and whether we wouldn’t be a touch more positive in our reviews of his performance.

Most astute viewers won’t let 1 game sway their views too much when the vast majority have been the opposite.

Same goes for when a good player has a stinker.

[Billy Walker]

Just on Hoppa, I wonder what the forum’s thoughts would be if someone else came into the team and got 166m, 1 try assist,1 line break assist and 2 offloads from centre and whether we wouldn’t be a touch more positive in our reviews of his performance.

Most astute viewers won’t let 1 game sway their views too much when the vast majority have been the opposite.

Same goes for when a good player has a stinker.

Nah - there are definitely forum favourites and players the GH group think seem to dislike. Ruben’s point is a very good one. Croker wasn’t hitting those numbers over the last few years of his career but many were giving him a pass sighting things like intangible benefits. Puru’s contributions to date are not near those outputs but there are strong calls for his inclusion. Supporters are allowed to have favourites and identify players they don’t have love for, but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t accept that happens.

[Ruben Daley]

Just on Hoppa, I wonder what the forum’s thoughts would be if someone else came into the team and got 166m, 1 try assist,1 line break assist and 2 offloads from centre and whether we wouldn’t be a touch more positive in our reviews of his performance.

Most astute viewers won’t let 1 game sway their views too much when the vast majority have been the opposite.

Same goes for when a good player has a stinker.

Sure. It’s one game and, like the result itself, it isn’t enough to get excited about.

But it could also indicate progress. Maybe Hoppa has added a bit more of a passing game to his skillset? We all thought CNK was incapable of it based on three seasons of evidence but that proved not to be true. Is it possible Hoppa has tucked away a skill to fit the program too? I think about the grubber he put in during the trial. It was a good decision and well executed. Maybe he’s expanding his game.

Anyway, I’m acting like I’m very pro-Hoppa and I’m not. I’d have picked Cotric and probably Schiller or Asomua over him.

I just think this week’s selection is reasonable.

[Regs Revolution]

Just on Hoppa, I wonder what the forum’s thoughts would be if someone else came into the team and got 166m, 1 try assist,1 line break assist and 2 offloads from centre and whether we wouldn’t be a touch more positive in our reviews of his performance.

Most astute viewers won’t let 1 game sway their views too much when the vast majority have been the opposite.

Same goes for when a good player has a stinker.

Nah - there are definitely forum favourites and players the GH group think seem to dislike. Ruben’s point is a very good one. Croker wasn’t hitting those numbers over the last few years of his career but many were giving him a pass sighting things like intangible benefits. Puru’s contributions to date are not near those outputs but there are strong calls for his inclusion. Supporters are allowed to have favourites and identify players they don’t have love for, but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t accept that happens.

I think it’s a lot more than that. It’s about identifying talent and seeing what they could be. Asomua hasn’t played a first grade game but judging on his efforts in the trial alone, people can see that he is first grade material.

I’ll say this about Stewart, whilst some people see him as the second coming, he has a long way to go to be a first grade fullback. He’s just not ready. I think he won’t be established in that position till 2026.

[Seiffert82]

Sorry Seif, completely wrong on Bula. He could and likely will be a very good player. Whack him around a better team and environment and watch what he could do. Imagine if he were in the Melbourne or Panthers system.

I’ll put money on Brooks having a blinder this year. The moment he left that shambles of a club, he was always going to be a better player for it. A small sample size, but in his first game, he was very good.

Point is you have Bula who is shining in a team that has got consecutive wooden spoons. You have to pay that.

Hi Reg, when it comes to recruitment I'm a big fan of scouting good players in bad teams.

Bula clearly has speed to burn and instincts with the ball. He's young and his career could be anything in the right environment.

Admittedly I've only watched him play 4, maybe 5 times. He's like any number of quality attacking fullbacks I've seen. For every Billy Slater there's a Matt Dufty or Daine Laurie or Lachlan Coote who can light it up, but prove to be incomplete fullbacks for whatever reason. 5 tries and 7 TA's in 18 games last year is an OK return. He also made plenty of errors and wasn't much of a last line of defence.

So yeah, he has a ton of potential. Not sure I'd have him in my 'gun' category yet, but he's exciting with the ball in hand. He's in a system which focuses on scoring points rather than stopping them, so time will tell how it plays out for him.

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[GreenMachine]

All this talk about "game plan"....
We have a game plan?

[Seiffert82]

All this talk about "game plan"....
We have a game plan?

I reckon we have one of the clearest game plans in the NRL.

Predominantly play through our strengths in the middle; the outside backs work hard in our defensive end to enable the forwards to cash in with high energy later in the game; focus on low risk plays coming out of our defensive half; look for offloads in the attacking 40; halves and outside backs play almost exclusively on one side, but our ball playing second rowers occasionally cross over to create overlaps. We aim to give our centres room to use their footwork and be tackle breakers rather than use a ball playing lock to create overlaps. Both Fogarty and Strange have good high kicking games, so I expect to see more aerial contests than kicking behind the line - which is something Young does on occassion, and something we might see more of with Stewart at fullback.

I appreciate that not many people seem to like it, but it's pretty obvious game plan to me.

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[Billy Walker]

Just on Hoppa, I wonder what the forum’s thoughts would be if someone else came into the team and got 166m, 1 try assist,1 line break assist and 2 offloads from centre and whether we wouldn’t be a touch more positive in our reviews of his performance.

Most astute viewers won’t let 1 game sway their views too much when the vast majority have been the opposite.

Same goes for when a good player has a stinker.

Nah - there are definitely forum favourites and players the GH group think seem to dislike. Ruben’s point is a very good one. Croker wasn’t hitting those numbers over the last few years of his career but many were giving him a pass sighting things like intangible benefits. Puru’s contributions to date are not near those outputs but there are strong calls for his inclusion. Supporters are allowed to have favourites and identify players they don’t have love for, but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t accept that happens.

I think it’s a lot more than that. It’s about identifying talent and seeing what they could be. Asomua hasn’t played a first grade game but judging on his efforts in the trial alone, people can see that he is first grade material.

I’ll say this about Stewart, whilst some people see him as the second coming, he has a long way to go to be a first grade fullback. He’s just not ready. I think he won’t be established in that position till 2026.

I agree - people have hopes, expectations and opinions and their views on players are driven by those things. I suspect Stewart or Puru could be given a game, totally stink it up but still be cut slack by the broader GH because of the hopes associated with what they might be. Similarly Hoppa or Danny Levi could win the Dally M and there would still be plenty on here death riding them. There are no rules about how you need to support your team so it’s all legitimate. But the initial point made by Ruben is a good one. Remove Hoppa from the stats and the stats stack up very well.

[-TW-]

All this talk about "game plan"....
We have a game plan?

I reckon we have one of the clearest game plans in the NRL.

Predominantly play through our strengths in the middle; the outside backs work hard in our defensive end to enable the forwards to cash in with high energy later in the game; focus on low risk plays coming out of our defensive half; look for offloads in the attacking 40; halves and outside backs play almost exclusively on one side, but our ball playing second rowers occasionally cross over to create overlaps. We aim to give our centres room to use their footwork and be tackle breakers rather than use a ball playing lock to create overlaps. Both Fogarty and Strange have good high kicking games, so I expect to see more aerial contests than kicking behind the line - which is something Young does on occassion, and something we might see more of with Stewart at fullback.

I appreciate that not many people seem to like it, but it's pretty obvious game plan to me.

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100%

High completions, roll through the middle, dominate posession and then play some ball when they get tired and drop off tackles allowing for 2nd and 3rd phase play

Some days we execute it perfectly, ie last week

Other days we make a million errors and it looks like a dogs breakfast

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[Sid]

And for attacking sets in the red zone, 5 crash balls then either another crash ball on the the last or a cross field aerial kick

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[radicalraider]

Who's marking tall tupou on the wing.. both our wingers are getting mauled either way

[-TW-]

Who's marking tall tupou on the wing.. both our wingers are getting mauled either way

Yawn

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[The Nickman]

Bring back crotic!

I'm genuinely going to miss Crotic on gameday more than most people... except mike, of course.