2024 Round 1 v Knights: Game Day

[Botman]

I’m a bit bemused by those saying Savage was so much better. A bit better? Sure, but not a whole heap - that’s what he’s been bringing and could have brought last year in my view.

Have avoided saying it because i dont need to rehash the Savage 2023 thing... but yeah, spot on imo

[Botman]

If Hosking keeps playing like he did last night, i dont know how Stuart could honestly say he's doing the best thing for the team playing Whitehead over Hosking.

I can’t say I was that excited about the recruitment of Hosking. Ricky Stuart was was remarkably blunt in saying he wasn’t initially interested either. But he was terrific last night.

My understanding of what he said was Ricky was very keen on Hosking, but after he chose Panthers instead he went in Ricky’s “Dead to me” book.

Then when he was available this year he wasn’t interested because of that. But since he knows his dad he had to give him a chance and came round.

Amazing what can happen when you don’t stamp people’s papers because they don’t do what you want one time…

That was my reading too... Stuart was keen, he got rejected and he chucked the toys out of the pram... basically admitted he had to swallow some pride to sign the bloke
Which i mean, good that he did... but this is the business you're in. You cant take it personally.

[afgtnk]

Buoyed by the sight of Savage being shifted back to his natural position on the wing, where he should've always been. It gives us that lingering threat we need with a side that isn't particularly dominated by the spine in attack.

[-TW-]

I’m a bit bemused by those saying Savage was so much better. A bit better? Sure, but not a whole heap - that’s what he’s been bringing and could have brought last year in my view.

Has a fair bit more bulk on him this year, hard carries were more effective

He was good, hoping the praise Stuart gave him means he's the first choice for the 5 jumper

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[gangrenous]

There should be no question he should be wing, there should be every question about should he be fullback

[Botman]

Buoyed by the sight of Savage being shifted back to his natural position on the wing, where he should've always been. It gives us that lingering threat we need with a side that isn't particularly dominated by the spine in attack.

Buoyed by ya boi Luke Brooks putting on a little show in LV!
Even i was impressed by him. Welcome back asmaslkalka

[BadnMean]

Buoyed by the sight of Savage being shifted back to his natural position on the wing, where he should've always been. It gives us that lingering threat we need with a side that isn't particularly dominated by the spine in attack.

Buoyed by ya boi Luke Brooks putting on a little show in LV!
Even i was impressed by him. Welcome back asmaslkalka

And he's trying a new angle to keep beating this Savage horse from. The false equivalency that because Savage is now a good winger, that he was therefore not the best FB option last season. False/flawed logic.

[Raidernation]

Next week will be interesting because I don't see hoppa being dropped which means either cotric or savage.
You would think savage stays because he can spell rapa when needed but in the trials hoppa went back to fullback for a spell when savage was on the field.
I think we need to keep Savage but I don't think it's a lock.

[The Nickman]

Buoyed by the sight of Savage being shifted back to his natural position on the wing, where he should've always been. It gives us that lingering threat we need with a side that isn't particularly dominated by the spine in attack.

Yeah, it’s great to see the potent weapons of Savage and Crotic on each side of the field, isn’t it?

[Raidernation]

The Knights hype never made much sense to me
They're a Ponga team... and he's always going to be a player where if you get him on the wrong day, you're probably losing the game.

But outside of Ponga they have:
- bad halves, bottom 3-4 in the league at both spots
- bad hooker, when Brailey is hurt, which is a lot, they have Crosslands and aside from a little form surge last year, he's not very good
- average forward pack, the Siafiti's are very over-rated. Leo Thompson and Friz are pretty good. The rest meh. KPP flashed last night though, ill give them that.
- Best is a good strike weapon, Gagai is rocks and diamonds year to year and declining, Marzhew is a very rich man's Hoppa, Tuala eh

If you can bottle up KP, they're not left with a lot.

I think Crosslands is going see some better form over the next couple of years. He's only 23 and been building to that first grade level of fitness.

This knights team is in transition. Both their halves back ups are better than their starters in Pryce and cogger which they will eventually transition to. KPP is a gun. They will be a real threat come the business end of the season baring injury.

[Rickmando]

You’re saying Elliott Whitehead walks straight back into the team that won so convincingly last night? On what basis?

I’m sure I’ve heard your mate mention before that he doesn’t change winning sides. Or only when it suits him?

On the basis that it's Elliot Whitehead. It's as simple as that. He is the club captain and his last performance for us and for England were mighty fine ones. It's his jersey to lose.

Blame Ricky for everything bad but when something goes well where is your commentary? Still negative. Petty.

Elliott whitehead who has looked busted and below NRL level for 3 years. Good. Your gymnastics to unfailingly cheerlead everything Rick does without being able to even consider an alternative view renders everything you write on here pretty much meaningless mate.

And btw, you clearly haven’t read 6 other posts I’ve made about the performance today (all positive), you’ve just cherry picked a comment that is accurate and well-made (but doesn’t agree with your viewpoint) and have focused on that.

So yeah, do me a favour and just put me on mute. I’ve got no interest in engaging with you, muppet.

Rick, you have no idea of what Elliott Whitehead brings to the team. Getting picked for England in the world cup and end of last season would counter your point. Pontificating on an online forum like you know more than the Raiders and the England RL. Good chat.

Keep dribbling Rick. It's people like you that have been proven wrong time and again by Stuart. I love seeing it. Last night was another one to shut people like you up.

How is Stuart proving anyone wrong?

With all his premierships?

With his 50% career win rate? (The lowest of the top 20 coaches all-time in terms of games coached)

The result was great on Thursday, let’s hope we see more of them. But it doesn’t provide any basis for the dribble you’re claiming above.

[RedRaider]

If Hosking keeps playing like he did last night, i dont know how Stuart could honestly say he's doing the best thing for the team playing Whitehead over Hosking.

I can’t say I was that excited about the recruitment of Hosking. Ricky Stuart was was remarkably blunt in saying he wasn’t initially interested either. But he was terrific last night.

My understanding of what he said was Ricky was very keen on Hosking, but after he chose Panthers instead he went in Ricky’s “Dead to me” book.

Then when he was available this year he wasn’t interested because of that. But since he knows his dad he had to give him a chance and came round.

Amazing what can happen when you don’t stamp people’s papers because they don’t do what you want one time…

That was my reading too... Stuart was keen, he got rejected and he chucked the toys out of the pram... basically admitted he had to swallow some pride to sign the bloke
Which i mean, good that he did... but this is the business you're in. You cant take it personally.

I think we are at last seeing some evidence of flexibility in Sticky's approach. The signing of Hosking meant it was not a permanent marker used to cross him off the list. I know injury played a part in the selection of Xav against the Knights in FG but it was not something Sticky could bring himself to do more than once last year. Here's hoping selection of Xav continues. There was some evidence during the trials of a change in attacking approach too, it was not just 5 hit ups and a kick, the ball was given more air and the plays looked rehearsed. Good early signs.

[gangrenous]

I don’t think there’s any sign of change. He signalled that the only reason it wasn’t permanent marker was due to third party relationships.

Savage on the wing, well it’s something but he should be in serious contention for fullback. It seems the permanent marker is operating pretty solidly there.

[bonehead]

is there a bit of madge in it? a voice from sticks other shoulder perhaps?

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[Hong Kong Raider]

I thought Papa had a big game. Much better than the Safiti brothers and Leo Thompson. His game reflects his pre season, fitness and weight loss. Some people wrote him off in the off season. he is a champion and a leader in our club. I expect Horse to be on the bench when he is back from suspension.

[Seiffert82]

The non selection of Savage last year had nothing to do with whether he was the best fullback or wing option.

The player himself admitted as much in the preseason.

I'm aware of enough stuff to know Stuart has done a brilliant job with getting him to the point he is now. In saying that, I'll be really disappointed if he is the one that gets cut when Kris returns. That edge will be awesome with Strange, Huddo, Kris and Sav.

The real question here is what happens with Hopoate when Kris returns. He's quickly turning into a plug and play backline utility.

[RedRaider]

I don’t think there’s any sign of change. He signalled that the only reason it wasn’t permanent marker was due to third party relationships.

Savage on the wing, well it’s something but he should be in serious contention for fullback. It seems the permanent marker is operating pretty solidly there.

I can see a change from the Abominable No Man. The fact that we needed a backrower with FG experience if possible, with CHN's footy future uncertain and EW in the last year of his career. The fact that he is a good defender also helped because our edge defence was flimsy at best last year. I am an early hopeful convert of 'New Sticky'. His press conferences still need work, but one thing at a time.

[gangrenous]

Yeah, identifying that we had one and a half second rowers is not rocket surgery.

[bonehead]

Yeah, identifying that having one and a half second rowers is not rocket surgery.

couldn't identify we didn't have a fullback

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[Seiffert82]

The second row depth was absolutely an issue that should have been addressed, but I don't really blame the club for not trying to sign a fullback last season. They thought we had CNK on contract until the end of 2023, with plans for Stewart to come through the grades. Hard to get a quality replacement at short notice for 1-2 seasons, or to abandon plans for Stewart.

It was just unfortunate that CNK needed to go home.

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[Dr Greenthumb]

Apologies if it’s been covered, but for mine the biggest thing with Savage is that he FINALLY looks to be coping with the physical side of the game. Even in the trial, he looked to be welcoming the collision and even winning them on most occasions. In 2022 he got rag dolled on every kick return or hit up.

[Botman]

I dont think that's an accurate statement at all. Not even close
Small players like him are sometimes driven back as numbers pile in, but he was not any worse than others his size. He averaged something like 130 metres a game in FG, you dont do that if you're driven back at the rate people pretended he was. It's not actually **** possible

And it was not different against the knights, mostly he was fine, occasionally he got pushed back... it's footy... even Greg Marzhew can get stood up and pushed back if they go into contact too upright. Pap was getting pushed back a lot last night.
Smaller players have to figure out how to minimise their exposure to that and that comes through experience.

[greeneyed]

The second row depth was absolutely an issue that should have been addressed, but I don't really blame the club for not trying to sign a fullback last season. They thought we had CNK on contract until the end of 2023, with plans for Stewart to come through the grades. Hard to get a quality replacement at short notice for 1-2 seasons, or to abandon plans for Stewart.

It was just unfortunate that CNK needed to go home.

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Except they’d written CNK off. They were playing him in NSW Cup. No wonder he left.

[Dr Greenthumb]

I dont think that's an accurate statement at all. Not even close
Small players like him are sometimes driven back as numbers pile in, but he was not any worse than others his size. He averaged something like 130 metres a game in FG, you dont do that if you're driven back at the rate people pretended he was. It's not actually **** possible

And it was not different against the knights, mostly he was fine, occasionally he got pushed back... it's footy... even Greg Marzhew can get stood up and pushed back if they go into contact too upright. Pap was getting pushed back a lot last night.
Smaller players have to figure out how to minimise their exposure to that and that comes through experience.

Ease up. You won’t find a bigger Savage fan than me. I’ve got no agenda here. It just seemed to me that in 2022, he would regularly end up flat on his back and taking forever to get the air back in his lungs (which as you said, happens with smaller/younger backs).

In the trial and in round 1, he seemed to cope with the collision better. Probably just an age thing and filling out a bit more. Just an observation, nothing more. I think it pleases me more than most other things because I feared his jaw injury might hinder his develop on that front.

[Seiffert82]

The second row depth was absolutely an issue that should have been addressed, but I don't really blame the club for not trying to sign a fullback last season. They thought we had CNK on contract until the end of 2023, with plans for Stewart to come through the grades. Hard to get a quality replacement at short notice for 1-2 seasons, or to abandon plans for Stewart.

It was just unfortunate that CNK needed to go home.

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Except they’d written CNK off. They were playing him in NSW Cup. No wonder he left.

He started 2022 as our first choice fullback. The writing was on the wall by mid season, but we obviously weren't in a position to replace him until 2023...and by then you're only 12-18 months away from Stewart coming through, the guy the club is backing to take us forward.

So on that basis, how is Canberra in a position to offer a top quality fullback a contract to move here for 1-2 years? Of course the fans want that, but in the real world it actually makes no sense.

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[Seiffert82]

I dont think that's an accurate statement at all. Not even close
Small players like him are sometimes driven back as numbers pile in, but he was not any worse than others his size. He averaged something like 130 metres a game in FG, you dont do that if you're driven back at the rate people pretended he was. It's not actually **** possible

And it was not different against the knights, mostly he was fine, occasionally he got pushed back... it's footy... even Greg Marzhew can get stood up and pushed back if they go into contact too upright. Pap was getting pushed back a lot last night.
Smaller players have to figure out how to minimise their exposure to that and that comes through experience.

Agree. IMO his post contact work demonstratively improved in his previous games.

This year the standout improvement for me is his contact in defence, and his general fitness. He looks really, really ready to make an impact in both aspects of the game.

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[The Nickman]

The second row depth was absolutely an issue that should have been addressed, but I don't really blame the club for not trying to sign a fullback last season. They thought we had CNK on contract until the end of 2023, with plans for Stewart to come through the grades. Hard to get a quality replacement at short notice for 1-2 seasons, or to abandon plans for Stewart.

It was just unfortunate that CNK needed to go home.

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That is 100% not how it went down with Charnze and I honestly wish people would stop trying to shove that narrative across

[The Nickman]

The second row depth was absolutely an issue that should have been addressed, but I don't really blame the club for not trying to sign a fullback last season. They thought we had CNK on contract until the end of 2023, with plans for Stewart to come through the grades. Hard to get a quality replacement at short notice for 1-2 seasons, or to abandon plans for Stewart.

It was just unfortunate that CNK needed to go home.

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Except they’d written CNK off. They were playing him in NSW Cup. No wonder he left.

Oh, thank you Fergus! Thank god it’s not just me

This whole Savage/CNK thing messed with everyone’s heads to the point they forget what happened

[greeneyed]

The second row depth was absolutely an issue that should have been addressed, but I don't really blame the club for not trying to sign a fullback last season. They thought we had CNK on contract until the end of 2023, with plans for Stewart to come through the grades. Hard to get a quality replacement at short notice for 1-2 seasons, or to abandon plans for Stewart.

It was just unfortunate that CNK needed to go home.

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Except they’d written CNK off. They were playing him in NSW Cup. No wonder he left.

He started 2022 as our first choice fullback. The writing was on the wall by mid season, but we obviously weren't in a position to replace him until 2023...and by then you're only 12-18 months away from Stewart coming through, the guy the club is backing to take us forward.

So on that basis, how is Canberra in a position to offer a top quality fullback a contract to move here for 1-2 years? Of course the fans want that, but in the real world it actually makes no sense.

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We released CNK a year early. He would not have wanted to go, I suspect, if he hadn’t been told he had no chance of playing anything but NSW Cup.

[Seiffert82]

The second row depth was absolutely an issue that should have been addressed, but I don't really blame the club for not trying to sign a fullback last season. They thought we had CNK on contract until the end of 2023, with plans for Stewart to come through the grades. Hard to get a quality replacement at short notice for 1-2 seasons, or to abandon plans for Stewart.

It was just unfortunate that CNK needed to go home.

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Except they’d written CNK off. They were playing him in NSW Cup. No wonder he left.

He started 2022 as our first choice fullback. The writing was on the wall by mid season, but we obviously weren't in a position to replace him until 2023...and by then you're only 12-18 months away from Stewart coming through, the guy the club is backing to take us forward.

So on that basis, how is Canberra in a position to offer a top quality fullback a contract to move here for 1-2 years? Of course the fans want that, but in the real world it actually makes no sense.

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We released CNK a year early. He would not have wanted to go, I suspect, if he hadn’t been told he had no chance of playing anything but NSW Cup.

Source?

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[Seiffert82]

The second row depth was absolutely an issue that should have been addressed, but I don't really blame the club for not trying to sign a fullback last season. They thought we had CNK on contract until the end of 2023, with plans for Stewart to come through the grades. Hard to get a quality replacement at short notice for 1-2 seasons, or to abandon plans for Stewart.

It was just unfortunate that CNK needed to go home.

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That is 100% not how it went down with Charnze and I honestly wish people would stop trying to shove that narrative across

So, how exactly did it go down?

Presumably this interview with him was a complete load of crap?

‘Cut me up’: Heartbreaking moment Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad knew he had to leave Raiders: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... fa03f88648

Maybe it's other people who are imagining their own version of events.

[Ruben Daley]

That’s how I remember it too, Seiff.

I also wonder if CNK would’ve been so emotional in his last game at the club if he’d been shafted so badly.

[greeneyed]

I wasn’t questioning anything in that story. What I was suggesting is that he might have had a different view if he wasn’t playing NSW Cup. He saw better opportunity in NZ.


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[Seiffert82]

That’s how I remember it too, Seiff.

I also wonder if CNK would’ve been so emotional in his last game at the club if he’d been shafted so badly.

Yeah, I'm not sure how there was any other interpretation to how it played out. It was pretty widely reported in interviews directly with the player.

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[Seiffert82]

I wasn’t questioning anything in that story. What I was suggesting is that he might have had a different view if he wasn’t playing NSW Cup. He saw better opportunity in NZ.


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“I could see that my boys were hurting so as much as I didn’t want to leave the Raiders, the Warriors gave me an opportunity to continue my dream as becoming an NRL player and gave me the opportunity to be more of a dad again.”

Definitely sounds like a bloke that was squeezed out of the club.

He played every game in first grade until round 11 on the 22nd May, and played his last game of first grade for us on 3rd July. The club formally announced his release on 6 July.

I think the reason he left had absolutely nothing to do with the fact the Raiders started playing him in reserves. Quite the opposite. He was desperate to return to NZ and approached the Warriors early in the season to do so.

It makes zero sense that the Raiders squeezed him out to play Savage, and then decided to not play Savage, if that's what you're suggesting.

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