Through green eyes 2024

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Seiffert82
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Seiffert82 »

Good read GE. Regarding golden point, the a 'golden try' rule also means teams would give away a thousand penalties in front of the posts knowing a penalty goal is no longer relevant. It's a ridiculous concept.

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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by BadnMean »

I love Chicka in the '88 vid just burning half a team with 20m headstarts on him and zooming away past them.
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greeneyed
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by greeneyed »

BadnMean wrote: April 19, 2024, 7:52 am I love Chicka in the '88 vid just burning half a team with 20m headstarts on him and zooming away past them.
That video also reminds us how Gary Belcher was such a graceful runner, looked like he put no effort in to glide and swerve his way over the grass. How fast a young Laurie Daley was. And what a good attacking player Peter Jackson was.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Finchy »

greeneyed wrote: I can guarantee one thing. If the NRL were to ever abandon golden point... we'd all soon be complaining about how we hate draws. Round and round in circles we'd go.
I’m curious to know on average how many golden point games there are every year, so we’d know how many draws there would be without it.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by greeneyed »

Finchy wrote: April 19, 2024, 10:21 am
greeneyed wrote: I can guarantee one thing. If the NRL were to ever abandon golden point... we'd all soon be complaining about how we hate draws. Round and round in circles we'd go.
I’m curious to know on average how many golden point games there are every year, so we’d know how many draws there would be without it.
There have been 157 since 2003. Three this year, an average of seven per season in the previous 21 years. 36 games that went into extra time still ended in a draw.

The Raiders have played 23 golden point games, winning 12, losing 10 and drawing one. Only the Cowboys (14) have won more golden point games than the Raiders. The Panthers have also won 12.

The Tigers are the least successful team in golden point. They have had 20 golden point games and won five. That’s a 25 per cent win rate. The Bulldogs been the most successful, winning 75 percent of their golden point games. The Raiders rank seventh in terms of win rate.

2003 4
2004 9
2005 2
2006 7
2007 9
2008 8
2009 5
2010 6
2011 10
2012 10
2013 6
2014 4
2015 10
2016 15
2017 10
2018 4
2019 10
2020 4
2021 3
2022 8
2023 10
2024 3 to date

National Rugby League golden point games: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... oint_games
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Finchy »

Very interesting, thanks GE
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Through green eyes 2024

Post by The Nickman »

An even more significant stat might be the fact I’ve never seen the raiders beat the broncos live in Brisbane, at either Lang Park or ANZ

I have seen us towel them up in Canberra, thankfully, but never up here

I was even present for the baby broncos golden point debarkle
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by reptar »

The Nickman wrote:An even more significant stat might be the fact I’ve never seen the raiders beat the broncos live in Brisbane, at either Lang Park or ANZ

I have seen us towel them up in Canberra, thankfully, but never up here

I was even present for the baby broncos golden point debarkle
It was ludicrous
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by RedRaider »

I wouldn't be complaining about a drawn result GE. It served the game fine for about 100 years. Players are trained to go 80 minutes, but golden point means extra minutes and exposure to injury to exhausted players. Duty of care for players not the priority. It would not bother me if they dropped the golden point rule entirely.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

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Through green eyes: As I saw it

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2024 Round 7. Brisbane Broncos 34 - Canberra Raiders 10. It was a tough night. The toughest of nights for the Canberra Raiders. Torrential rain engulfed Lang Park, minutes before the start of the Green Machine's clash with the Broncos. And the Raiders seemed to enjoy the conditions - for a bit. They dominated the early stages. A Hudson Young try was correctly overturned by the bunker - due to a little knock on. After 10 minutes, a score line of 12-0 in favour of the Raiders would have been a fair reflection of the match.

But that bunker decision proved to be the turning point. After a faltering start, Reece Walsh brought out his stunning speed and left the Raiders in his wake. His try in the 13th minute was the first of five in the first half for Brisbane. The first three tries were scored in the space of seven minutes. 18-0. And when Billy Walters kicked ahead for himself in the 28th minute, it was all over. The Broncos led by 24 points and the Raiders have never come back from 24 points down. When Billy Walters is scoring tries against you - easily - it is just not your night. Walsh scored his second try, too easily, in the 32nd minute.



I thought before the game that the rain might suit the Raiders' style of play. Games played in those sorts of conditions are often a grind. But what eventuated reminded me of a game the Raiders played against the Bulldogs in a mud heap at Seiffert back in the 1980s. That day, Canberra's little men and their speed, just cut the big Canterbury pack to pieces. And speed was what the Broncos had tonight. That, and extraordinary skill in handling when it was raining cats and dogs.

Jamal Fogarty's kicking in the first half was not the weapon that all those in green hoped it would be. The Broncos mostly defused his kicks easily. In contrast, the Raiders struggled with the Broncos kicks. Young Raiders fullback Chevy Stewart was targeted with bombs and smashing tackles - and that paid off for Brisbane. Stewart ended up making four errors. There were at least a couple of try causes.

But I will say this. Chevy Stewart was courageous. While he was targeted relentlessly, he just kept on coming back for more. He kept on charging into the Broncos' defensive line, sometimes to his cost. The 18-year-old young man will come out of the game stronger. Iron is forged in fire.

One other thing I'll say. Before the season, I wrote that the process of generational change, the arrival of the department of youth, would not be a smooth one. The road was always going to be rocky at times. And it was rocky tonight. But the Raiders are in the process of building an exciting young team, full of talent. And we, the fans, have to be patient - just as Ricky Stuart said in his post match press conference that he has to be patient.

The match, of course, was not only tough because of the final score. It was tough because halfback Jamal Fogarty appears to have ruptured his bicep. That is a serious injury. If it is confirmed that he needs surgery, the best case scenario is that he'll be out for 12 weeks.

Fogarty couldn't return to the field for the second half. It is remarkable how well the young Raiders did to claw their way back into the match without him. They conceded only one try to the Broncos in the second forty, while scoring two themselves. They had gone to the half time break shell shocked - trailing 28-0. It is admirable how they steadied.

However, there is no doubt that life without Fogarty is going to be, well... and I keep using this word... tough. I'm not sure what Ricky Stuart is going to do - but it won't surprise me at all if Adam Cook is brought in at No. 7. He's been on fire in NSW Cup, much more dominant than Kaeo Weekes, who'd be the other main option. Simi Sasagi played in the halves in the second half - but he's really a five eighth. Cook has organising skills that have surprised me, when I've watched NSW Cup this year. We will get a sense of what coach Stuart is going to do when the final NSW Cup team for the clash with the Bears is announced on Sunday afternoon.



Stats that mattered: It is surprising to me that the Broncos had only 51 per cent of the ball. Both teams had a completion rate of around 72 per cent and the error count was fairly close (Broncos 15, Raiders 13). It also surprises me that the Raiders had 55 per cent of the territory - and 60 per cent in the first half. It just seemed like the Broncos were more in control than those numbers indicate.

The Broncos did dominate most of the attacking statistics. They made more runs (187-169), running metres (1761-1573), post contact metres (574-491), kick return metres (193-121), tackle breaks (36-28) and line breaks (7-2) than the Raiders. The Raiders made more offloads (7-3). The Broncos also made more kicking metres (651-493) from the same number of kicks.

There wasn't much difference in the defensive workload, but the Raiders produced more missed tackles (36-28). Ineffective tackles were close (Broncos 10, Raider 8). That translated into a 90 per cent effective tackle rate for Brisbane, and 89 per cent for Canberra. However, put the line breaks and missed tackles together and you get six tries to two.

Memorable moments: The Raiders' tries? Simi Sasagi got a four pointer, running through the most feeble defence you'll ever see. Sasagi also put up a good kick to set up the try for Xavier Savage. But this is mostly a game to be forgotten. Ricky Stuart will need to draw out the lessons to be learned quickly, and then put the match to bed. It'll be important to ensure that the confidence of the young players is not dented too much. It’ll be important to stick with the selections of the young players that have been made, as they’re the right ones.

Best performers: Joseph Tapine. 19 runs for 178 running metres, 73 post contact metres, two tackle breaks, one offload, 29 tackles, 97 per cent tackle efficiency.

Josh Papalii. 10 runs for 102 metres, 42 post contact metres, one try assist, one line break assist, two tackle breaks, one offload, 24 tackles, 100 per cent tackle efficiency.

Simi Sasagi. One try, seven runs for 58 metres, one line break, one try assist, one tackle break, 29 tackles, the five missed tackles the blot on the copy book.

Top tacklers: Ata Mariota (39), Hudson Young (37), Danny Levi (37), Morgan Smithies (32), Joseph Tapine (29), Simi Sasagi (29)
Most metres gained: Matt Timoko (205), James Schiller (183), Joseph Tapine (178), Sebastian Kris (163)

Tapine and Josh Papalii (102) were the only Raiders props who broke 100 metres gained. I've got to say that the Raiders' pack were outplayed. Patrick Carrigan topped 200 metres gained and Corey Jensen (192) got close. Seriously... Corey Jensen.

The metres gained for Matt Timoko and James Schiller were boosted by two long runs, from intercepts. It was slightly disturbing to see how easily a few of the Broncos' pacey backs caught them. Timoko is a power runner, so that's not too big a shock, but Schiller is certainly not as quick as some might like to believe.

My player ratings may seem a bit tough on some, given my earlier comments. But I do give statistics a good weighting to help ensure the ratings are as objective and comparable from game to game, as possible. Game time also plays a part for some.

My player ratings:

Chevy Stewart 3
James Schiller 5
Matt Timoko 6
Sebastian Kris 6
Xavier Savage 6
Ethan Strange 6
Jamal Fogarty 4
Josh Papalii 6
Danny Levi 5
Joseph Tapine 7
Hudson Young 6
Simi Sasagi 6
Morgan Smithies 6

Tom Starling 2
Ata Mariota 6
Trey Mooney 6
Pasami Saulo 4

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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Finchy »

Haha I had to laugh at the “Seriously.... Corey Jensen” line. We’ve been making absolute plodders look a million bucks since well... Ben Pomeroy, David Simmons, and Matt Prior were carving us to shreds.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by RedRaider »

DL and SimiS lead the missed tackles with 5 apiece. Simi scored a try and set up the second Raiders try with a kick. DL dropped the ball at dummy half and from the Broncos next set they scored a try. DL penalised for a strip and from the next set Cobbo scored his try. Late in the game DL passes to no one and the ball thankfully goes out over the sideline. DL did put in 2 grubber kicks to create some opportunity but they were not taken. DL needs to work on his defensive play. He has more missed tackles than any other Raider player. The side needs DL to improve when he does not have the ball before defensively loose, becomes defensive liability.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Finchy »

RedRaider wrote: April 21, 2024, 11:10 am DL and SimiS lead the missed tackles with 5 apiece. Simi scored a try and set up the second Raiders try with a kick. DL dropped the ball at dummy half and from the Broncos next set they scored a try. DL penalised for a strip and from the next set Cobbo scored his try. Late in the game DL passes to no one and the ball thankfully goes out over the sideline. DL did put in 2 grubber kicks to create some opportunity but they were not taken. DL needs to work on his defensive play. He has more missed tackles than any other Raider player. The side needs DL to improve when he does not have the ball before defensively loose, becomes defensive liability.
Billy conveniently ignores all this and makes out like he's the second coming of Cameron Smith. He's very very good you know!
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by President Clinton »

I mentioned this in the Game Day thread. The broncos having an extra two full days preparation, the Raiders playing 90 minutes last week and needing to travel definitely contributed to the result. The conditions were also dreadful and played right into hands of the fresher team, where concentration and effort are paramount.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by greeneyed »

Through green eyes: Rookie Raiders

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The Canberra Raiders team that faces the Cronulla Sharks this weekend has lost over 800 games of experience, compared with the Green Machine of a year ago - and is almost three years younger, on average.

Incredibly, the average age of the selected backline this week is less than 22. The average age of the team is 23.7 - and they have an average of 71 games of experience to their name.

In the Raiders' Round 7 clash with the Dragons last year, the average age of the Canberra team was 26.3 - and the players had an average of 115 games of experience. That side included the likes of Jarrod Croker (who had then played over 290 NRL games), Elliott Whitehead (almost 350 first class games in England and Australia), Josh Papalii (over 260 games) and Jack Wighton (over 220 games).



Here is this week's team - with the number of NRL games they've played and their current age (credit to one of our Facebook followers for the initial research here!):

1. Chevy Stewart 2 games (18 years old)
2. James Schiller 14 games (22)
3. Matt Timoko 69 games (24)
4. Sebastian Kris 70 games (25)
5. Xavier Savage 29 games (22)
6. Ethan Strange 8 games (19)
7. Kaeo Weekes 12 games (22)
8. Josh Papalii 289 games (31)
9. Danny Levi 123 games (28)
10. Joe Tapine 196 games (29)
11. Hudson Young 104 games (25)
12. Simi Sasagi 18 games (23)
13. Morgan Smithies 7 games, plus 114 English first class games (23)

14. Tom Starling 93 games (25)
15. Ata Mariota 23 games (22)
16. Trey Mooney 7 games (21)
17. Pasami Saulo 56 games (25)
18. Albert Hopoate 35 games (23)

There are eight new players in that starting line up, compared to the Round 7 2023 team. Ten in the top 17. Croker and Wighton are, of course, no longer with us. Elliott Whitehead is out with a troublesome calf injury. Veteran winger/fullback Jordan Rapana (over 200 NRL appearances) and Corey Horsburgh (over 80 appearances) weren't playing in that match last year against the Dragons, but they are also sidelined with long term injuries.

This week, Jamal Fogarty was the latest addition to Canberra's injury list. He had surgery on Tuesday to repair a biceps injury and that will sideline him for at least three months. That injury poses the biggest challenge for the team so far this year. The 30 year old halfback might not have a lot of NRL games under his belt. But he's played a lot of footy. And his kicking game has been the centre piece of the Raiders' game plan.

New recruit Kaeo Weekes has been brought into the side to replace Fogarty. He's a veteran compared to 19 year old five eighth Ethan Strange and 18 year old fullback Chevy Stewart. It means three members of the spine this week have 22 games of experience in total and an average age of less than 20.

The Raiders are going to have to change the way they play on Sunday. Fogarty has been dominant in the play making and kicking. This week, those responsibilities will need to be shared. The Raiders forwards know they have the responsibility to give the young halves good field position - and time and space. Desirably, it looks like the instructions to the youngsters will be to 'just play your natural game'. To some extent, we have not seen the natural games of Ethan Strange and Chevy Stewart in first grade this year. They have been given simplified assignments. But I'm looking forward to them taking more responsibility.



The young players will be targeted by the Sharks - just as the Broncos targeted young Chev in the torrential rain last week. He made some crucial errors, but Ricky Stuart promised to be patient - and he showed confidence in his young charges by making no unforced changes to the line up. We fans will need to be patient too. A new team is being built.

On social media this week veteran sports reporter - and Raiders tragic - Craig Norenbergs said this of the young team: "Sporting tradition dictates they must have a nickname, like "the Baby Broncos" or "Bath's Babes"... what do we call them? "The Bruce Babies"? "Canberra Kids"?"

These sort of things must feature alliteration. But those aren't the answers. The answer is obvious. They are the "Rookie Raiders".

May they proceed to surprise everyone in the coming weeks. And even if the road is rough, I'm excited to go along with this ride.

****

Every week I rate the Raiders players on a scale of 0-10... and here are the latest tallies. Tell us what you think of the ratings!

Total points

Joseph Tapine 50
Matt Timoko 49
Morgan Smithies 47
Jamal Fogarty 46
Josh Papalii 45
Hudson Young 45
Ethan Strange 44
Xavier Savage 43
Danny Levi 39
Pasami Saulo 38
Jordan Rapana 33
Ata Mariota 32
Zac Hosking 30
Tom Starling 29
Sebastian Kris 28
James Schiller 23
Albert Hopoate 19
Emre Guler 17
Simi Sasagi 12
Trey Mooney 11
Nick Cotric 10
Corey Horsburgh 9
Chevy Stewart 9
Elliott Whitehead 5

Average points per match

Joseph Tapine 7.1
Matt Timoko 7.0
Morgan Smithies 6.7
Jordan Rapana 6.6
Jamal Fogarty 6.6
Josh Papalii 6.4
Hudson Young 6.4
Albert Hopoate 6.3
Ethan Strange 6.3
Xavier Savage 6.1
Zac Hosking 6.0
Simi Sasagi 6.0
James Schiller 5.8
Emre Guler 5.7
Sebastian Kris 5.6
Danny Levi 5.6
Trey Mooney 5.5
Pasami Saulo 5.4
Ata Mariota 5.3
Nick Cotric 5.0
Elliott Whitehead 5.0
Corey Horsburgh 4.5
Chevy Stewart 4.5
Tom Starling 4.1

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greeneyed
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by greeneyed »

Through green eyes: As I saw it

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"There was a lot of very poor football. I'm not backtracking from the path we've taken with a lot of those younger players. But I didn't expect at this stage of the season to have to play so many of them all together. Please don't see this as an excuse because the young boys are all good football players. There was some really poor football performed out there today. We've got so many games sitting on the sidelines, so much experience, it just makes the job so much harder to play first grade for those younger players. They're hurting in there and I'm hurting for them.

Cronulla were way too good for us tonight. I've just got to be patient and keep working with the younger players because those boys who are injured they're not back for a number of weeks. We've got two to three months of this. But I can assure you we'll keep working at it and play better. I feel sorry, we had a good number of fans out there tonight. I felt embarrassed with that performance. But we'll just keep working hard."

Canberra Raiders coach Ricky Stuart


2024 Round 8. Cronulla Sharks 40 - Canberra Raiders 0. It was a beautiful, slightly crisp Autumn afternoon. The ANZAC weekend, and the pre match ceremony was moving. The Viking Clap unusually then took place with both teams present on the field. It was a good build up to the clash - and the opening 10 minutes saw both teams testing each other out. The game was largely played between the 20 metre lines, neither side getting a clear advantage.

But once the Sharks got into the Canberra red zone, they took their chance. Their first try, to Cameron McInnes, was scored off a blatant forward pass from Nicho Hynes. But the bunker can't do anything about forward passes. Cronulla soon followed up with another to Tom Hazelton - with Joe Tapine producing the worst attempted tackle you'll ever see from the great man. That seemed to set the tone for the rest of the match. Simi Sasagi later made a similar poor attempt on Hynes.

The most critical turning point in the game came along in the 24th minute. Xavier Savage made an exciting break down the eastern touchline and passed back inside to Danny Levi. The pass was good. Levi took it, kept running and then dropped it completely cold. A certain try was bombed. Almost immediately, the Sharks went up the other end. A 12 point turnaround.

It was an offence worth a hooking - and coach Ricky Stuart seemed to agree, by pulling Levi from the field. Maybe he just thought Levi hadn't been offering enough in the opening stages and Starling needed to be injected. Whatever it was... Levi should be lining up in NSW Cup next week for that. And the poor defence. And for throwing an intercept in the second half which set up a Sharks try.



It was the beginning of the end.

Ethan Strange very nearly scored a try early in the second half, but couldn't quite ground it. It deserved a try. But other than that, the Raiders rarely threatened. For the most part, the younger brigade performed relatively well. There should not be any fingers pointing in their direction, After a horror game last week, Chevy Stewart recovered nicely. He was trying things to the end. The kicking game of Jamal Fogarty was, however, missed. Kaeo Weekes is really a fullback or maybe a five eighth, not a half back. It is not his fault that he's being asked to play out of position.

The biggest issue was that the more experienced players in the middle didn't aim up in defence or attack. The Sharks won the ruck. They were too quick in everything they did. We heard all week how the Raiders forwards needed to lay the platform for the young spine players, but it didn't happen.

The Raiders are missing some very experienced, key players due to long term injuries. But some changes need to be made before next week. Zac Woolford will get the Raiders' big pack rolling. He should have been the starting No. 9 from the start of the season, for mine. I also think Adam Cook needs to be considered at halfback. His defence is certainly not perfect, but he has been in much better NSW Cup form than Weekes. He can set up a try with his ball playing skills and can kick.



Stats that mattered: The Sharks had 52 per cent of the ball and 51 per cent of the territory. Canberra had more red zone chances (37 tackles in the opposition 20 metre zone, Sharks 22) and the better completion rate (80 per cent, Sharks 72 per cent). But Cronulla dominated the other attacking statistics. They made over 400 more running metres than the Raiders. Nine line breaks to two. The Sharks made 64 tackle breaks, the Raiders 22. Thirteen offloads to seven.

The kicking numbers were very similar. What that means is that the big advantage that Jamal Fogarty has delivered in that department in 2024 was removed tonight.

The defence was Canberra's biggest problem. They missed 64 tackles, compared with 22 for the Sharks. The Raiders posted an 80 per cent effective tackle rate, the Sharks 90 per cent. Then there's the matter of seven tries to none.

Zero was the other stat that mattered. The Raiders don't often fail to register a point. Tonight's duck egg was the first since the Round 2 loss to the Titans on the Gold Coast in 2013. The last time the Raiders failed to score a point at Canberra Stadium was the 40-0 defeat at the hands of the Tigers in Round 13 of 2012.

Memorable moments: Spare me. The most memorable moment is one I'd prefer to forget and which I've already covered.

Best performers: Matt Timoko. 17 runs for 209 metres, 89 post contact metres, two tackle breaks, one offload. Surely they missed about eight tackle breaks?

Chevy Stewart. 18 runs for 137 metres, 49 kick return metres, three tackle breaks.

Ethan Strange. 11 runs for 67 metres, one line break, one tackle break, 18 tackles.

The blots for Stewart and Strange were the missed tackles (five and six, respectively), but there was barely a player without a blot tonight. Even Josh Papalii missed five tackles and Joe Tapine four.

Top tacklers: Simi Sasagi (40), Morgan Smithies (37), Hudson Young (30), Joseph Tapine (30).
Most metres gained: Matt Timoko (209), James Schiller (156), Hudson Young (145), Joseph Tapine (139), Chevy Stewart (137).

Sasagi topped the tackle count, but also made the most missed tackles (10).

My player ratings:

Chevy Stewart 6
James Schiller 6
Matt Timoko 7
Sebastian Kris 4
Xavier Savage 5
Ethan Strange 6
Kaeo Weekes 5
Josh Papalii 5
Danny Levi 3
Joseph Tapine 6
Hudson Young 6
Simi Sasagi 4
Morgan Smithies 5

Tom Starling 5
Ata Mariota 4
Trey Mooney 4
Pasami Saulo 4

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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Finchy »

Way too many pass marks for mine. Timoko was probably a 7-8 even without scoring any tries. Stewart and Strange maybe a 5. Everyone else 4 or below. That was a disgraceful performance across the team.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by -PJ- »

Rickys hurting..

I can move forward with my day.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by dubby »

10 missed tackles from Sasagi is disgraceful.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Through green eyes 2024

Post by gangrenous »

Young and Smithies should be down in the 3-4 range also.

No way Schiller and Timoko should have the same points. Timoko to 8, Schiller down to 4-5.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by greeneyed »

Sorry, Timoko should be a 7. Late night error.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Billy Walker »

Everyone keeps saying Levi bombed a certain try. He was running in mud with Nico Hynes flying up behind him. There was no way he was getting to the try line. We might have scored off the next play but Levi wasn’t getting there.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by RedRaider »

You are a generous man GE. No way was DL worthy of a 3. Defensive Liability, intercept passing, poor ball control in a scoring opportunity where no other player touches him he just drops it, solo runs where no one - including him - knows what he is doing which killed an opportunity on the left because he went right. Ricky has demonstrated the hook for him during a match and now we await the Team List Tuesday hook.

I know limited minutes limits the player rating, but I thought Saulo went ok on the day. Timoko easily the best on ground for the Raiders and deserved the 7 rating.

One typo in your post GE, you have named Ethan Savage as the player who did not get the ball down. It is a Strange error from you, likely brought about by the disappointment of the day.

I watched the Channel 9 coverage and was disappointed in Brad Fittler who bagged everything including the City of Canberra. It got to the point where even the co-commentators were defending against the stuff he was saying.
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Rick
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Rick »

Billy Walker wrote:Everyone keeps saying Levi bombed a certain try. He was running in mud with Nico Hynes flying up behind him. There was no way he was getting to the try line. We might have scored off the next play but Levi wasn’t getting there.
That’s part of the issue. How was Mr Preseason so gassed that early in the game? It was not from making tackles.


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Billy Walker
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Billy Walker »

Rick wrote: April 29, 2024, 8:31 am
Billy Walker wrote:Everyone keeps saying Levi bombed a certain try. He was running in mud with Nico Hynes flying up behind him. There was no way he was getting to the try line. We might have scored off the next play but Levi wasn’t getting there.
That’s part of the issue. How was Mr Preseason so gassed that early in the game? It was not from making tackles.


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Yeah it was odd - he was totally cooked. He wasn’t getting to that try line on that run!
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BadnMean
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by BadnMean »

Rick wrote: April 29, 2024, 8:31 am
Billy Walker wrote:Everyone keeps saying Levi bombed a certain try. He was running in mud with Nico Hynes flying up behind him. There was no way he was getting to the try line. We might have scored off the next play but Levi wasn’t getting there.
That’s part of the issue. How was Mr Preseason so gassed that early in the game? It was not from making tackles.


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Pretty good analysis on it at Sportress. He got targeted and it exposed the myth of his fitness a bit.

The reason Levi dropped it was he knew he was gassed and had a peek inside at Chevy flying up in support. Had he been able to catch and pass, we score off that play through Chevy imo.
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greeneyed
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by greeneyed »

RedRaider wrote: April 29, 2024, 8:11 am You are a generous man GE. No way was DL worthy of a 3. Defensive Liability, intercept passing, poor ball control in a scoring opportunity where no other player touches him he just drops it, solo runs where no one - including him - knows what he is doing which killed an opportunity on the left because he went right. Ricky has demonstrated the hook for him during a match and now we await the Team List Tuesday hook.

I know limited minutes limits the player rating, but I thought Saulo went ok on the day. Timoko easily the best on ground for the Raiders and deserved the 7 rating.

One typo in your post GE, you have named Ethan Savage as the player who did not get the ball down. It is a Strange error from you, likely brought about by the disappointment of the day.

I watched the Channel 9 coverage and was disappointed in Brad Fittler who bagged everything including the City of Canberra. It got to the point where even the co-commentators were defending against the stuff he was saying.
I was writing at midnight... after a long day...

What did Brad Fittler say about our fine city?
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Finchy »

greeneyed wrote: April 29, 2024, 11:18 am
RedRaider wrote: April 29, 2024, 8:11 am You are a generous man GE. No way was DL worthy of a 3. Defensive Liability, intercept passing, poor ball control in a scoring opportunity where no other player touches him he just drops it, solo runs where no one - including him - knows what he is doing which killed an opportunity on the left because he went right. Ricky has demonstrated the hook for him during a match and now we await the Team List Tuesday hook.

I know limited minutes limits the player rating, but I thought Saulo went ok on the day. Timoko easily the best on ground for the Raiders and deserved the 7 rating.

One typo in your post GE, you have named Ethan Savage as the player who did not get the ball down. It is a Strange error from you, likely brought about by the disappointment of the day.

I watched the Channel 9 coverage and was disappointed in Brad Fittler who bagged everything including the City of Canberra. It got to the point where even the co-commentators were defending against the stuff he was saying.
I was writing at midnight... after a long day...

What did Brad Fittler say about our fine city?
Don't quote me on this as I'm going from memory, but I recall Matt Thompson saying something along the lines of "what's not to like about Canberra (the town, not the team)?" and Freddy chiming in with "where do I start?"
Ata Mariota’s #1 fan. Bless his cotton socks.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Billy Walker »

Finchy wrote: April 29, 2024, 11:24 am
greeneyed wrote: April 29, 2024, 11:18 am
RedRaider wrote: April 29, 2024, 8:11 am You are a generous man GE. No way was DL worthy of a 3. Defensive Liability, intercept passing, poor ball control in a scoring opportunity where no other player touches him he just drops it, solo runs where no one - including him - knows what he is doing which killed an opportunity on the left because he went right. Ricky has demonstrated the hook for him during a match and now we await the Team List Tuesday hook.

I know limited minutes limits the player rating, but I thought Saulo went ok on the day. Timoko easily the best on ground for the Raiders and deserved the 7 rating.

One typo in your post GE, you have named Ethan Savage as the player who did not get the ball down. It is a Strange error from you, likely brought about by the disappointment of the day.

I watched the Channel 9 coverage and was disappointed in Brad Fittler who bagged everything including the City of Canberra. It got to the point where even the co-commentators were defending against the stuff he was saying.
I was writing at midnight... after a long day...

What did Brad Fittler say about our fine city?
Don't quote me on this as I'm going from memory, but I recall Matt Thompson saying something along the lines of "what's not to like about Canberra (the town, not the team)?" and Freddy chiming in with "where do I start?"
I feel like Freddy and Brandy never got over the 1990 Grand final loss and have held a grudge ever since despite getting one back in 91. Oddly Blocker seems to have a real soft spot for the raiders even though we ruined his party in 89 and there was no redemption for the Tigs. Not sure why the Pamfers hate on us so much.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by RedRaider »

greeneyed wrote: April 29, 2024, 11:18 am
RedRaider wrote: April 29, 2024, 8:11 am You are a generous man GE. No way was DL worthy of a 3. Defensive Liability, intercept passing, poor ball control in a scoring opportunity where no other player touches him he just drops it, solo runs where no one - including him - knows what he is doing which killed an opportunity on the left because he went right. Ricky has demonstrated the hook for him during a match and now we await the Team List Tuesday hook.

I know limited minutes limits the player rating, but I thought Saulo went ok on the day. Timoko easily the best on ground for the Raiders and deserved the 7 rating.

One typo in your post GE, you have named Ethan Savage as the player who did not get the ball down. It is a Strange error from you, likely brought about by the disappointment of the day.

I watched the Channel 9 coverage and was disappointed in Brad Fittler who bagged everything including the City of Canberra. It got to the point where even the co-commentators were defending against the stuff he was saying.
I was writing at midnight... after a long day...

What did Brad Fittler say about our fine city?
He said he could find nothing good to say about Canberra. Even Joey Johns arced up at that one. He has spent far too long under Nick Politis influence. Joey Johns even used the term of the Roosters salary cap being a sombrero.
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Leebola
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by Leebola »

greeneyed wrote: April 29, 2024, 11:18 am
RedRaider wrote: April 29, 2024, 8:11 am You are a generous man GE. No way was DL worthy of a 3. Defensive Liability, intercept passing, poor ball control in a scoring opportunity where no other player touches him he just drops it, solo runs where no one - including him - knows what he is doing which killed an opportunity on the left because he went right. Ricky has demonstrated the hook for him during a match and now we await the Team List Tuesday hook.

I know limited minutes limits the player rating, but I thought Saulo went ok on the day. Timoko easily the best on ground for the Raiders and deserved the 7 rating.

One typo in your post GE, you have named Ethan Savage as the player who did not get the ball down. It is a Strange error from you, likely brought about by the disappointment of the day.

I watched the Channel 9 coverage and was disappointed in Brad Fittler who bagged everything including the City of Canberra. It got to the point where even the co-commentators were defending against the stuff he was saying.
I was writing at midnight... after a long day...

What did Brad Fittler say about our fine city?
I'm surprised anyone can understand a thing he says. He sounds like he's gargling a bag of marbles. Probably the same bag of marbles that doubles for his brain.
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greeneyed
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by greeneyed »

Through green eyes: Win now, win later?

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Last week, the Canberra Raiders fielded the youngest team that any club had sent out onto the park this season.

The average age of the backline was less than 22. The average age of the team was 23.7 - and they had an average of 71 games of experience to their name. Three members of the spine - Chevy Stewart, Ethan Strange and Kaeo Weekes - had 22 games of experience in total and an average age of less than 20.

"I think it is the youngest backline the Raiders have ever put on the field. It's certainly the youngest seven, six and one we've probably ever had in the history of our club," Raiders coach Ricky Stuart said last week.

"You can look at that in two ways," he continued.

"You can look at that as a very inexperienced team today. Or you can look at how the future is bright in regards to the youth we have in those positions. We certainly have a 'win now' attitude. But as the head coach of the club, I've got to have a 'win later' attitude too."

"It is about winning now, but it's also about building for the future."

The Raiders lost 40-0 to the Sharks last Sunday afternoon. That defeat followed a 34-10 loss to the Broncos the previous week.

On Tuesday, Stuart made changes for the upcoming clash with the Sea Eagles. Elliott Whitehead will return from a troublesome calf injury, having played in just one game this year. Albert Hopoate, Nick Cotric and Emre Guler are additions. Chevy Stewart has been rested. James Schiller, Simi Sasagi are out. Pasami Saulo is out with a bulging disc.

"Having Albert, Elliott, Nick and Emre come back, gives me experience and hopefully the energy that we lacked last week," Stuart said today.

He explained why Chevy Stewart was rested.

"I know what I'm doing with Chevy," he said.

"He's a young boy, he's had three very big games. I actually sent him home yesterday for the weekend, to have some time with his family. He'll be back on board next week and then we've got the bye."

"He'll get a good freshen up at the right time of the season. It's about looking after him physically. He doesn't look after himself physically. He plays the game very tough for the size of him."

"He'll be fine. He's started his NRL career very well. He's very competitive, a high contributor in the game and it's purely being protective more than anything."

The Raiders still have Jamal Fogarty, Jordan Rapana, Corey Horsburgh and Zac Hosking on the sidelines. There's over 400 games of experience in the NRL missing there - while Fogarty and Hosking have more experience than their tally of NRL matches suggests.

Most importantly, Fogarty is the halfback, the No. 1 playmaker, the No. 1 kicker. After biceps surgery, he won't be available until Round 20 at the earliest. He faces up to three more months on the sidelines.

Most teams are going to find it difficult to adjust to the loss of their halfback.

Stuart admits that in these circumstances, finding the balance between youth and experience is tough.

"It's hard. Sometimes that choice is taken away from you like it has been over the last couple of weeks - and it's going to be over the next seven or eight weeks, with so many experienced players sitting on the sideline," he said today.

"Experienced players in important positions, such as Jamal Fogarty. We've missed that voice."

"But the young blokes have got to come up, and step up now. They've got that opportunity."

Stuart says that the return Elliott Whitehead this week will be important.

"He'll help Taps and Papa with that experience. And that is all these young blokes are missing at the moment, just a little bit of experience and confidence around them. That will slowly come back over the next two to three months."

But the challenge ahead, in blending youth and experience, is "huge", according to Stuart.

"I'm big enough to handle that. I'm making sure that the staff around me are big enough to handle it," Stuart said.

"We want to win now, but we've also got to coach for the future. We've got to have a change. We've got to turn up and win. We were very disappointed with last week and we've got to correct that."

****

Will the changes this week work on Friday night? I hope so, but I'm not sure.

The biggest issue in last week's defeat was that the Raiders lost the middle. It wasn't because of the younger brigade. The Canberra forward pack is full of big names. But they've been inconsistent.

In my view, the hooking duo of Danny Levi and Tom Starling is not working well. It is part of the reason for the inconsistency in the middle.

Danny Levi is fit and quick, and he's scored four tries in 2024. He's not really a creator. He has no try or line break assists this year. He is targeted in defence and he has to make a lot of tackles. But he misses a lot too - 30 so far this year, for an 86 per cent tackle efficiency rate. And he doesn't get the forward pack rolling as well as Zac Woolford. I'm struggling to see why Woolford is yet to get an NRL start this year. Things look even more disorganised when Starling comes on.

A lot is being asked of Kaeo Weekes as well. He's not really a halfback, but he did pretty well last week in the No. 7 jersey. Adam Cook has looked clearly better than Weekes in NSW Cup this year, playing at halfback. His defence is not the best at times, but he's got 10 try assists, seven line break assists, and leads the NSW Cup competition in kicking metres. Cook's on a training contract and can't play in the NRL until Round 11 - unless he were to be put on a development deal or the NRL were to give an exemption. In the meantime, it looks like Kaeo Weekes is being given his shot - and as a hard working new recruit, I do think he deserves a shot.

In any case, now is the time for the forward pack to deliver. Tomorrow night, they'll need to dominate a Manly pack that is, fortuitously, missing Haumole Olakau'atu. They'll need to make sure the Sea Eagles are on the back foot - and they'll need to help cut down the space and time for Daley Cherry-Evans. The Raiders have only won five of the 20 games against Sea Eagles teams that included DCE.

Someone will have to do something about Tom Trbojevic as well. The Raiders have lost six of the 10 games against Manly when Trbojevic was playing. And the last time the teams met, Tommy Turbo scored a hat trick.

Contain both players and the Raiders would go a long way to getting a rare victory at Brookvale. I'd love to see that.

****

“Our game’s so stupid. You can lose the ball over the line and it costs you 20 metres and seven tackles. Why? I don’t know because it’s stupid. But I can just take a line drop out and it goes out on the full, no consequence. It’s nothing at all – what sort of stupid game is this? Who sits and makes up these rules?”

The NRL fined Phil Gould $20,000 this week ($10,000 suspended) for saying that on 100% Footy on Monday night. And for being critical of a decision last weekend to disallow a try to Wests Tigers hooker Api Koroisau.

Gould is under the jurisdiction of the NRL as he’s an official of the Bulldogs. I certainly don’t agree with everything Phil Gould says or the way he says things. He is often pushing an agenda. And I can understand why some may be concerned by him using his media role to push the barrow of his club.

But I find it very hard to argue with what Gould said about those two rules and the process for rule changes. In my view, the substance of it was 100 per cent correct.

****

Every week I rate the Raiders players on a scale of 0-10... and here are the latest tallies. Tell us what you think of the ratings!

Total points

Joseph Tapine 56
Matt Timoko 56
Morgan Smithies 52
Hudson Young 51
Josh Papalii 50
Ethan Strange 50
Xavier Savage 48
Jamal Fogarty 46
Danny Levi 42
Pasami Saulo 42
Ata Mariota 36
Tom Starling 34
Jordan Rapana 33
Sebastian Kris 32
Zac Hosking 30
James Schiller 29
Albert Hopoate 19
Emre Guler 17
Simi Sasagi 16
Trey Mooney 15
Chevy Stewart 15
Nick Cotric 10
Corey Horsburgh 9
Kaeo Weekes 5
Elliott Whitehead 5

Average points per match

Joseph Tapine 7.0
Matt Timoko 7.0
Jordan Rapana 6.6
Jamal Fogarty 6.6
Morgan Smithies 6.5
Hudson Young 6.4
Albert Hopoate 6.3
Josh Papalii 6.3
Ethan Strange 6.3
Zac Hosking 6.0
Xavier Savage 6.0
James Schiller 5.8
Emre Guler 5.7
Sebastian Kris 5.3
Simi Sasagi 5.3
Danny Levi 5.3
Pasami Saulo 5.3
Ata Mariota 5.1
Nick Cotric 5.0
Trey Mooney 5.0
Chevy Stewart 5.0
Kaeo Weekes 5.0
Elliott Whitehead 5.0
Corey Horsburgh 4.5
Tom Starling 4.3

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BJ
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Through green eyes 2024

Post by BJ »

Very good write up GE.

We start the season with various posters wanting these young guys playing from round one and a call to take it easy on our inexperienced youngsters.

Suddenly two bad losses and some are blaming the young players, the older players or the coaches.

Coaches can’t teach young players the ins and outs of NRL football in a few months (especially with an inexperienced or low skill spine). Young players need 50 plus games to reach their potential (some 100 games).

Older players with inexperienced players around them can sometimes panic, try too hard to create things or start worrying about the players around them, instead of worrying about their own game (which I reckon we saw a bit of last Sunday).

Win now or win later? is spot on at the core of your article.
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by The Nickman »

I really haven't seen many posters blaming the young players, to be perfectly honest, BJ.
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BJ
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Re: Through green eyes 2024

Post by BJ »

The Nickman wrote:I really haven't seen many posters blaming the young players, to be perfectly honest, BJ.
Ummm that’s why I said ‘some’.

I thought Chevy got a few sneaky comments on his performances sometimes dressed up as not directly negative.
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