POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

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In which position should Xavier Savage start in 2024?

Fullback
38
58%
Winger
28
42%
 
Total votes: 66

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greeneyed
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POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by greeneyed »

POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

What's your strongest possible 2024 Canberra Raiders line up? That's what we are asking the readers of The Greenhouse. We're looking at the "Locks and contenders" for each position in the team in a special series of articles. Some players have clearly locked down their spot but we're looking at all the contenders for places in the Green Machine's top 17. For more contentious positions, we're supplementing the discussion with a series of polls.

It is clear the polls for fullback and winger are set to result in the selection of Xavier Savage in both positions. The fans really want the X man in the team! Or there's a bit of cognitive failure happening somewhere along the line.

In any case, we now need a new poll to decide which spot Xavier Savage should be selected in: fullback or winger. The next place getter in the original polls will fill the vacant spot at fullback or wing.

It is over to you... Remember, we're looking at the strongest possible team, irrespective of injuries or suspensions... not the Round 1 team.

You have ONE vote in this poll. We will allow you to change your vote in this poll, to make sure we get a result.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by greeneyed »

I'm picking him on the wing... Chevy Stewart at fullback.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Greygoateebloke »

Wing. Defensively not up to playing fullback, and some pure pace will be nice on our edge for a change...
Stewart to play FB.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Rickmando »

I’ve made the case for X at fullback on the other thread. I think we get a lot more from him in that position.

However the silver lining of him being on the wing in this hypothetical team would be seeing Chevy Stewart in the side, he’s also a talent that needs to be brought into the top grade in 2024.

Whichever way you slice it - the people are making it clear to Rick! Pick Savage and stop stuffing the kid around.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Botman »

I also went wing... there is now pretty significant diminishing returns on him playing fullback because it's quite clear that is Stewart's job maybe as early as round 1 but probably at least by the end of the year. So what good is it to put Savage there now to develop him when that's not the role he'll play for us going forward

Get him back on the wing where his initial FG trajectory profiled as a potential JAC style winger. I think he's got the ability to play there and be a very good finisher for us and certainly having him on the wing should mean any break down his side of the field won't lack for a support player to help finish off tries.

Stewart and Savage had a nice little combination going in NSW Cup too, so that could come into play. Stewart seemed to understand the value in getting Savage into space and bringing his speed into the game.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Northern Raider »

Of course the poll is currently 50/50 :lol:
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by dubby »

greeneyed wrote: January 22, 2024, 12:14 pm I'm picking him on the wing... Chevy Stewart at fullback.
Agreed.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Matt »

Northern Raider wrote: January 22, 2024, 2:52 pm Of course the poll is currently 50/50 :lol:
For the moment, it's fixed :D

I've gone wing. Give me the JAC, Saab, AKP "home run hitter" on the flank. Pair him with Seb. We will get the new Leipana... 'Kris-X' (90s kids/teens will get it).

I went Stewart at FB originally.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by dubby »

Matt wrote: January 22, 2024, 4:23 pm
Northern Raider wrote: January 22, 2024, 2:52 pm Of course the poll is currently 50/50 :lol:
For the moment, it's fixed :D

I've gone wing. Give me the JAC, Saab, AKP "home run hitter" on the flank. Pair him with Seb. We will get the new Leipana... 'Kris-X', 90s kids/teens will.get it.
With Rapana retiring end of season, I'm confident he'll be our first choice winger next year.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Azza »

Never seen Chevy play, but I loved him in the Holiday Road movies so will vote for him at FB.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Billy Walker »

Matt wrote: January 22, 2024, 4:23 pm
Northern Raider wrote: January 22, 2024, 2:52 pm Of course the poll is currently 50/50 :lol:
For the moment, it's fixed :D

I've gone wing. Give me the JAC, Saab, AKP "home run hitter" on the flank. Pair him with Seb. We will get the new Leipana... 'Kris-X' (90s kids/teens will get it).

I went Stewart at FB originally.
Yeah I could see that combo being wigida, wigida wigida wack! :thumbsup
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by RedRaider »

I remain a Xav fan and would like to see him at fullback. We saw last season what high pace fullbacks can do for a side with the Broncos becoming a genuine threat for the premiership and the Knights also far better in attack. Xav has delivered in FG at fullback in 2022 and I would like to see more of it.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by thevikingclap on ig »

Only thing with X Savage on the wing with C Stewart at Fullback is the risk of them both being dominated when working it out of our own end.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Andymachine »

I went with winger and then changed it to fullback. It's a tough one. The choice comes down to who is the better alternative in the other position - Chevy Stewart at fb or Cotric on the wing. I don't care for Cotric anymore and would be happy enough to see him moved on tbh but I've never seen Stewart play and given that he's only 18, have doubts whether he'd be ready for regular NRL.

At the end of the day, I think that Savage earned the fb jersey after his 2022 season and only pigheadedness from the coach and possibly reasons unknown to any of us kept him out of there. Had he been given his opportunities last season we might be more confident about whether or not he's our guy but for now, I think he earned it in 2022 so want to see him given the shot that he should have had last year. If he can give us half of what Reece Walsh gave to the Broncos and QLD then it would be a big step in the right direction for our pedestrian attack.

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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Finchy »

Matt wrote: January 22, 2024, 4:23 pm
Northern Raider wrote: January 22, 2024, 2:52 pm Of course the poll is currently 50/50 :lol:
For the moment, it's fixed :D

I've gone wing. Give me the JAC, Saab, AKP "home run hitter" on the flank. Pair him with Seb. We will get the new Leipana... 'Kris-X' (90s kids/teens will get it).
Can Kris-X jump jump? We also need a Daddy Mac
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Rickmando »

Andymachine wrote: January 23, 2024, 7:01 am I went with winger and then changed it to fullback. It's a tough one. The choice comes down to who is the better alternative in the other position - Chevy Stewart at fb or Cotric on the wing. I don't care for Cotric anymore and would be happy enough to see him moved on tbh but I've never seen Stewart play and given that he's only 18, have doubts whether he'd be ready for regular NRL.

At the end of the day, I think that Savage earned the fb jersey after his 2022 season and only pigheadedness from the coach and possibly reasons unknown to any of us kept him out of there. Had he been given his opportunities last season we might be more confident about whether or not he's our guy but for now, I think he earned it in 2022 so want to see him given the shot that he should have had last year. If he can give us half of what Reece Walsh gave to the Broncos and QLD then it would be a big step in the right direction for our pedestrian attack.
Bang on. Savage at FB is the biggest attacking improvement the club can make in a single move, for mine.

It’ll overcome what I’m predicting will be some absolutely turgid primary ball playing from the halves this year
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by BadnMean »

thevikingclap on ig wrote: January 23, 2024, 6:39 am Only thing with X Savage on the wing with C Stewart at Fullback is the risk of them both being dominated when working it out of our own end.
Could happen on occasions. You balance that against the increased ability to make breaks off kick returns, create opportunities to score and break the line through speed or footwork, convert those chances etc.

Potentially in a season or so that wouldn't be as much of an issue as they get stronger. If this is a development year, you probably risk that at least in the back end of a season after a chance for one of them to develop at Cup level for a while. Or give them a shot from the start, back them and see if they can hold their own. Will be interesting to see how Stuart handles the season.

How tall is Chevy? Xavage isn't small and looked to be getting bigger last year pre jaw injury. You for sure want some power on the other wing. Lucky our 3/4s are good at tough yards.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Cranky Old Man »

There is a bit of "The Dog That Didn't Bark" about Savage. In all the interviews with players and coaching staff that I have seen since late last year not one of them has mentioned Xavier as a strong shot at first grade in 24. There have some mentions in passing after ginning up some other players but any mention has always seemed to be a bit of an afterthought. From talking to some staff with the juniors squads the one consistent comment in among the usual kerfuffel you get about players is messaging about "listening". I get a vibe that the club and many of the players within it consider Xavier a bit of a big head.
Now there wouldnt have been a squad in the history of the game that didnt have a big head within it and it would not ordinarily hinder progress in the game. But I get the impression that Xavier has mightily p****d off plenty at the Raiders and they are looking for him to grow up a bit and are yet to see it.
His future is in his hands, has he got what it might take to secure that future?
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Billy Walker »

Cranky Old Man wrote: January 23, 2024, 2:34 pm There is a bit of "The Dog That Didn't Bark" about Savage. In all the interviews with players and coaching staff that I have seen since late last year not one of them has mentioned Xavier as a strong shot at first grade in 24. There have some mentions in passing after ginning up some other players but any mention has always seemed to be a bit of an afterthought. From talking to some staff with the juniors squads the one consistent comment in among the usual kerfuffel you get about players is messaging about "listening". I get a vibe that the club and many of the players within it consider Xavier a bit of a big head.
Now there wouldnt have been a squad in the history of the game that didnt have a big head within it and it would not ordinarily hinder progress in the game. But I get the impression that Xavier has mightily p****d off plenty at the Raiders and they are looking for him to grow up a bit and are yet to see it.
His future is in his hands, has he got what it might take to secure that future?
Interesting - Reese Walsh jumps to mind as a comparison.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Cranky Old Man »

Reese Walsh? Is he really a comparison? He was recruited from the Warriors and had a fairly immediate impact at the Broncos. I didnt get the impression the the Warriors were particularly keen to lose him but were mindful as they mostly seem to be of the wishes of mainlander players occasional need to return to family in Oz. Ive heard no particular remarks about him being unusually headstrong or big headed etc. But I have heard little about him personally at all.
Again. Is he really a compariuson?
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Billy Walker »

Cranky Old Man wrote: January 23, 2024, 3:00 pm Reese Walsh? Is he really a comparison? He was recruited from the Warriors and had a fairly immediate impact at the Broncos. I didnt get the impression the the Warriors were particularly keen to lose him but were mindful as they mostly seem to be of the wishes of mainlander players occasional need to return to family in Oz. Ive heard no particular remarks about him being unusually headstrong or big headed etc. But I have heard little about him personally at all.
Again. Is he really a compariuson?
He looks like he has a big ego that gets ahead of him at times but there wouldn’t be a team in the NRL that wouldn’t tolerate it for what he brings.

Your theory on Savage is interesting. It’s hard not to think something is amiss. It seems odd Rick gave him a shot 2 years ago he seems to be tracking in the wrong direction since then.

I’d love to know the full story.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Matt »

Cranky Old Man wrote: January 23, 2024, 3:00 pm Reese Walsh? Is he really a comparison? He was recruited from the Warriors and had a fairly immediate impact at the Broncos. I didnt get the impression the the Warriors were particularly keen to lose him but were mindful as they mostly seem to be of the wishes of mainlander players occasional need to return to family in Oz. Ive heard no particular remarks about him being unusually headstrong or big headed etc. But I have heard little about him personally at all.
Again. Is he really a compariuson?
He 100% needs a brick on his ego. Warriors only got him because Bronx did the dirty on Phins or Titans (cant remember which). Remember Walsh git done for doing silly Mann/Ponga type things in nightclubs.

Now... does Walsh have the game to match the ego? Yeah, unfortunately he does.

I don't think Savage is ego. Hes too quiet a person for that. But he doesn't have an 80s workethic like the coach prefers either.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by gangrenous »

Agree it’s funny that the GH needs a poll to sort out which position he should get from two wins. Meanwhile Ricky pretty clearly has him pencilled in as winning zero.

I also would love to know the story so I could figure out EDIT.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Yap »

When is he out of contract

If he doesnt get given a chance early, he should be looking for a release before he wastes his career

Need to get some speed in the team, rather than play it safe with a bulked up slug (Cotric) on the wing
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Botman »

Last year when i questioned if Savage had a future at this club and wondered aloud if his style of player would be a fit for Stuart, Rickheads told me he was just unlucky with injury, Kris is playing well (LOL boy that aged like milk) he just needs to train hard and bash the door down in NSW Cup and he'll be fine, Stuart loves him otherwise he wouldnt have re-signed him...

I dont know if Savage has an NRL future, there is a lot to like about his game and some holes that need to be worked through. But the more i hear from Stuart the more convinced i am that if he does have an NRL future, it wont be here.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by greeneyed »

Vote tied.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Billy Walker »

Do we cut him half or let Ricky be the decider?
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Raidernation »

Botman wrote: January 23, 2024, 6:54 pm Last year when i questioned if Savage had a future at this club and wondered aloud if his style of player would be a fit for Stuart, Rickheads told me he was just unlucky with injury, Kris is playing well (LOL boy that aged like milk) he just needs to train hard and bash the door down in NSW Cup and he'll be fine, Stuart loves him otherwise he wouldnt have re-signed him...

I dont know if Savage has an NRL future, there is a lot to like about his game and some holes that need to be worked through. But the more i hear from Stuart the more convinced i am that if he does have an NRL future, it wont be here.
It looks to me that Savage just isn't mentally engaged in the game and doesn't work hard enough. He switches off far too often, has been soft in tackles and is a quiet fullback. The pro savage crew/anti Ricky crew tend to park the fact that Savage was given the fullback spot over CNK clearly before he was ready, was given a 3 year contract, was trained at the 1 to start the season with no backup last year yet is not liked by Stuart because he isn't playing thus he is not liked apparently.
To me it looks like a player that they see plenty of natural ability but needs to mentally and physically ready for NRL. He is being kept to try to get him there but so far hasn't managed to to get there. It also doesn't just look like Stuart either, the reserve grade coach has at times seemed to be frustrated with Savage also not having his head in the game and taking easy options.
Either way my guess is he will probably start at fullback this year and this will be his final shot because a drop in performance will facilitate Chevy coming in. Looks like a sink or swim moment for savage.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

When he's played with us for an extended period he's played well. Give the guy an opportunity - anywhere. Wing for me. If the coaches of Reece Walsh and the Hammer adopted the same attitude as we have treated Savage in 2023 then they wouldn't have developed. At the end of 2022, Savage was at least equal to Walsh and the Hammer, or only slightly behind.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Northern Raider »

Wing marginally in front. Fair to say the fan base is split on the topic.

Really comes back to whether Stewart is ready to take the fullback spot. It's therefore more about where the gap is in our roster than what position Savage is best suited for. I voted Savage at Fullback simply because he's our best option till Stewart is ready.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Raidernation »

Hong Kong Raider wrote: January 24, 2024, 11:02 am When he's played with us for an extended period he's played well. Give the guy an opportunity - anywhere. Wing for me. If the coaches of Reece Walsh and the Hammer adopted the same attitude as we have treated Savage in 2023 then they wouldn't have developed. At the end of 2022, Savage was at least equal to Walsh and the Hammer, or only slightly behind.
The flip side to that is Matt dufty who was given 5 odd years to cement a spot. The difference with walsh is you can see on the field and I'm sure this translates in training also, that he wants it (by that I mean he brings plenty of energy and tries things to change a game). I see the same traits in Chevy. Walsh was terrible in defence at the warriors but you bank on the talent, energy and self belief that he will get it and give him some leeway. I can only judge by what I saw on the field with Savage but it wasn't there, he switched off a lot which you just can't do at fullback. Hopefully he shows it in training and puts it on the park.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Billy Walker »

Raidernation wrote: January 24, 2024, 10:33 am
Botman wrote: January 23, 2024, 6:54 pm Last year when i questioned if Savage had a future at this club and wondered aloud if his style of player would be a fit for Stuart, Rickheads told me he was just unlucky with injury, Kris is playing well (LOL boy that aged like milk) he just needs to train hard and bash the door down in NSW Cup and he'll be fine, Stuart loves him otherwise he wouldnt have re-signed him...

I dont know if Savage has an NRL future, there is a lot to like about his game and some holes that need to be worked through. But the more i hear from Stuart the more convinced i am that if he does have an NRL future, it wont be here.
It looks to me that Savage just isn't mentally engaged in the game and doesn't work hard enough. He switches off far too often, has been soft in tackles and is a quiet fullback. The pro savage crew/anti Ricky crew tend to park the fact that Savage was given the fullback spot over CNK clearly before he was ready, was given a 3 year contract, was trained at the 1 to start the season with no backup last year yet is not liked by Stuart because he isn't playing thus he is not liked apparently.
To me it looks like a player that they see plenty of natural ability but needs to mentally and physically ready for NRL. He is being kept to try to get him there but so far hasn't managed to to get there. It also doesn't just look like Stuart either, the reserve grade coach has at times seemed to be frustrated with Savage also not having his head in the game and taking easy options.
Either way my guess is he will probably start at fullback this year and this will be his final shot because a drop in performance will facilitate Chevy coming in. Looks like a sink or swim moment for savage.
That’s a pretty good take and I think probably quite accurate.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Finchy »

Hong Kong Raider wrote: January 24, 2024, 11:02 am When he's played with us for an extended period he's played well. Give the guy an opportunity - anywhere. Wing for me. If the coaches of Reece Walsh and the Hammer adopted the same attitude as we have treated Savage in 2023 then they wouldn't have developed. At the end of 2022, Savage was at least equal to Walsh and the Hammer, or only slightly behind.
I thought the Hammer had an attitude problem and got dropped from the fullback spot which is why he left the Cowboys
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Matt »

Finchy wrote: January 24, 2024, 8:56 pm
Hong Kong Raider wrote: January 24, 2024, 11:02 am When he's played with us for an extended period he's played well. Give the guy an opportunity - anywhere. Wing for me. If the coaches of Reece Walsh and the Hammer adopted the same attitude as we have treated Savage in 2023 then they wouldn't have developed. At the end of 2022, Savage was at least equal to Walsh and the Hammer, or only slightly behind.
I thought the Hammer had an attitude problem and got dropped from the fullback spot which is why he left the Cowboys
They had/have Drinky, Val, Feldt and Taulagi. Cant remember the other centre at the time, Hiku(?). They didn't have room for Hammer too. He was too good to be the 5th or 6th back. If memory serves, his D was also questionable initially.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2024 line up: Savage re-vote

Post by Finchy »

Matt wrote: January 24, 2024, 9:37 pm
Finchy wrote: January 24, 2024, 8:56 pm
Hong Kong Raider wrote: January 24, 2024, 11:02 am When he's played with us for an extended period he's played well. Give the guy an opportunity - anywhere. Wing for me. If the coaches of Reece Walsh and the Hammer adopted the same attitude as we have treated Savage in 2023 then they wouldn't have developed. At the end of 2022, Savage was at least equal to Walsh and the Hammer, or only slightly behind.
I thought the Hammer had an attitude problem and got dropped from the fullback spot which is why he left the Cowboys
They had/have Drinky, Val, Feldt and Taulagi. Cant remember the other centre at the time, Hiku(?). They didn't have room for Hammer too. He was too good to be the 5th or 6th back. If memory serves, his D was also questionable initially.
Talented competition no doubt, but there was still an attitude aspect.

‘Not disappointed or bitter’: Payten reveals why they let Hammer go as Dolphin dazzles: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 531c6ed674
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