The Politics Thread 2024

[The Nickman]

An interesting podcast dropped yesterday on the possible implications of a Trump presidency internationally and its effects on Australia.

Cutting all funding to Ukraine precipitating a Russian victory is a certainty. Whether that emboldens China to seize the opportunity and take Taiwan, time will tell.

I think it's why we're all of a sudden seeing the rest of Europe starting to mobilise, they fear a Trump and Russia victory upcoming.

[dubby]

Why on earth do they fear a Trump victory? Under his leadership there were no wars!

[The Nickman]

Why on earth do they fear a Trump victory? Under his leadership there were no wars!

You are so dumb. You say things, and they're stupid, they're just dumb, do you have no level of self-awareness?

Do you think Russia only invaded Ukraine because they're scared of Trump and wouldn't have done it if he were still president? Do you think Israel wouldn't currently be destroying the Gaza strip and Hamas never would've attacked if Trump were still in charge?

You're just parroting **** you've seen online. Have some critical thinking for a change, man.

[dubby]

Why on earth do they fear a Trump victory? Under his leadership there were no wars!

You are so dumb. You say things, and they're stupid, they're just dumb, do you have no level of self-awareness?

Do you think Russia only invaded Ukraine because they're scared of Trump and wouldn't have done it if he were still president? Do you think Israel wouldn't currently be destroying the Gaza strip and Hamas never would've attacked if Trump were still in charge?

You're just parroting **** you've seen online. Have some critical thinking for a change, man.

The second Biden went into office, Putin moved.

Israel is defending itself from HAMAS!

How you can defend that is just ridiculous.

One nation, surrounded by many, under constant threat and attack every damn day, Hezbollah, Hamas etc and you claim to defend minorities?

Mate.

You're parroting your own narrative and claiming YOUR truth is the truth.

[The Nickman]

Why on earth do they fear a Trump victory? Under his leadership there were no wars!

You are so dumb. You say things, and they're stupid, they're just dumb, do you have no level of self-awareness?

Do you think Russia only invaded Ukraine because they're scared of Trump and wouldn't have done it if he were still president? Do you think Israel wouldn't currently be destroying the Gaza strip and Hamas never would've attacked if Trump were still in charge?

You're just parroting **** you've seen online. Have some critical thinking for a change, man.

The second Biden went into office, Putin moved.

Israel is defending itself from HAMAS!

How you can defend that is just ridiculous.

One nation, surrounded by many, under constant threat and attack every damn day, Hezbollah, Hamas etc and you claim to defend minorities?

Mate.

You're parroting your own narrative and claiming YOUR truth is the truth.

The invasion of Ukraine happened in January '22, wasn't quite the "second" Biden moved in. Do you honestly think it wouldn't have happened on Trump's watch? I'd wager it would've happened and Russia would've in fact won by now if Trump were in charge.

And you're right, Israel is defending itself from Hamas, are you saying Trump would've stopped Hamas' attack in the first place or he would've stopped Israel's retaliation?

You make no sense.

[The Nickman]

Israel is defending itself from HAMAS!

How you can defend that is just ridiculous.

Also, what is this crap? You said no wars happened under Trump, I asked you how Trump would've stopped this attack and retaliation from happening (I never once defended anything) and you respond with this.

No wonder nobody takes you seriously.

[dubby]

Why on earth do they fear a Trump victory? Under his leadership there were no wars!

You are so dumb. You say things, and they're stupid, they're just dumb, do you have no level of self-awareness?

Do you think Russia only invaded Ukraine because they're scared of Trump and wouldn't have done it if he were still president? Do you think Israel wouldn't currently be destroying the Gaza strip and Hamas never would've attacked if Trump were still in charge?

You're just parroting **** you've seen online. Have some critical thinking for a change, man.

The second Biden went into office, Putin moved.

Israel is defending itself from HAMAS!

How you can defend that is just ridiculous.

One nation, surrounded by many, under constant threat and attack every damn day, Hezbollah, Hamas etc and you claim to defend minorities?

Mate.

You're parroting your own narrative and claiming YOUR truth is the truth.

The invasion of Ukraine happened in January '22, wasn't quite the "second" Biden moved in. Do you honestly think it wouldn't have happened on Trump's watch? I'd wager it would've happened and Russia would've in fact won by now if Trump were in charge.

And you're right, Israel is defending itself from Hamas, are you saying Trump would've stopped Hamas' attack in the first place or he would've stopped Israel's retaliation?

You make no sense.

4 years under Trump, no wars.

This corrupt, bumbling fool Biden wanders in, botched Afghanistan, can't string a full sentence together, and suddenly Hamas and Putin strike?
Coincidence?

Insult me all you want. It shows your character.

[dubby]

Thing is, I actually like Nickman. I think he's a good bloke.

But when someone has a different perspective he gets rather aggressive. He shouldn't. Just express yourself without the personal touches.

But the real test is whether we can engage in rational debate without attacking each other.

Afterall, we are here for our love of the Raiders.

Personal differences aside, we are actually all on the same side.

If I was to sit next to any GH member at the GF when we win, personal and political differences don't matter.

We'd celebrate, probably cry and enjoy a drink.

It's how we handle our differences that make us humans

[The Nickman]

4 years under Trump, no wars.

This corrupt, bumbling fool Biden wanders in, botched Afghanistan, can't string a full sentence together, and suddenly Hamas and Putin strike?
Coincidence?

Insult me all you want. It shows your character.

I'm not insulting you, I'm insulting the absolute garbage you're spouting. If you want to look less stupid, say less stupid things. And answer my questions directly rather than spouting garbage rhetoric.

How would Trump have stopped Russia invading Ukraine when all evidence suggests he wouldn't even have supported Ukraine in the first place?

How would Trump have prevented Hamas from attacking and then Israel defending itself by essentially wiping out the Gaza Strip?

Again, instead of acting the wounded animal everytime your ridiculous statements get called out, try addressing the actual topics.

[gangrenous]

I can try to pretend the world isn’t full of… *people*

Am I reading this wrong, or given where the above was posted, this post seems to be filled with ... arrogance?

With the removed posts and the edit some of the context was lost.

But yeah it is still filled with arrogance. Do I think less of people who vote Trump? Yeah, I do.

[Dr Zaius]

Why on earth do they fear a Trump victory? Under his leadership there were no wars!

Perhaps you should listen to the podcast I linked, they explain why they fear a Trump victory.

I don't recall Biden starting any wars or the US becoming involved in any wars under Biden.

[Botman]

Why on earth do they fear a Trump victory? Under his leadership there were no wars!

This was virtually a word for word quote i got from my FIL a few days ago
How sad.

[gerg]

What are you talking about dubby?

Armed conflicts in 2018: https://www.rulac.org/news/the-war-repo ... ippines%2C

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[Dr Zaius]

I went and voted this morning in the council elections. It was quick and simple. A card had arrived in the mail. They scanned the bar code on the card, asked me my name and stree, then gave me voting cards. In and out in 15 minutes. Never felt threatened. It's nice to live in a country that respects democracy.

[Dr Zaius]

Thing is, I actually like Nickman. I think he's a good bloke.

But when someone has a different perspective he gets rather aggressive. He shouldn't. Just express yourself without the personal touches.

But the real test is whether we can engage in rational debate without attacking each other.

Afterall, we are here for our love of the Raiders.

Personal differences aside, we are actually all on the same side.

If I was to sit next to any GH member at the GF when we win, personal and political differences don't matter.

We'd celebrate, probably cry and enjoy a drink.

It's how we handle our differences that make us humans

Trump is not a point of political difference. A point of political difference would be DeSantis. I don't like the guy, don't like his politics, but some people do and it's their right to vote for him.

Trump is a populist. He tells people what they want to hear to get votes, and then does whatever the hell he wants, which is generally what's in his own best interests. He attempted to overthrow an elected government and has no respect for authority. He has stated that he will use the presidency to punish anyone that has stood in his way. He will remove any dissenters from positions of influence. He is an isolationist that will not honour alliances and will make the world less stable geopolitically.

This is not about political differences. This is about electing a conman who will be a disaster for the world, and you my friend have been conned. The fact that he is not even trying to hide what he intends to do makes me think that at best that Trump supporters are at best easily led, at worst complete utter morons.

[greeneyed]

Mod request: Please cut the personal comments. I’m very close to just shutting this thread down permanently due to group conflict and the burden of moderating it. The forum guidelines require that questions about the moderation are put to a moderator, not posted. You have a choice of moderators to put the question to. If you believe a post has broken forum guidelines, please use the report function and moderators will look at it and make a ruling. Thanks all.

[papabear]

I can try to pretend the world isn’t full of… *people*

Am I reading this wrong, or given where the above was posted, this post seems to be filled with ... arrogance?

With the removed posts and the edit some of the context was lost.

But yeah it is still filled with arrogance. Do I think less of people who vote Trump? Yeah, I do.

Perhaps in future you could be more charitable to people who have a different opinion to you, whilst still maintaining the same level of thought and criticism to their political opinion?


Might make for a better place?

[papabear]

Why on earth do they fear a Trump victory? Under his leadership there were no wars!

You are so dumb. You say things, and they're stupid, they're just dumb, do you have no level of self-awareness?

Do you think Russia only invaded Ukraine because they're scared of Trump and wouldn't have done it if he were still president? Do you think Israel wouldn't currently be destroying the Gaza strip and Hamas never would've attacked if Trump were still in charge?

You're just parroting **** you've seen online. Have some critical thinking for a change, man.

The bolded is not attacking what he is saying or his opinion.

The bolded is attacking dubby personally. It is completely unnecessary and does a disservice to your opinion the one I share.

It is questionable as to whether anyone is ever persuaded by anything on the internet as opposed to just having their own opinion reinforced. But what isn't questionable is attacking people personally never persuades them and it just makes the poster look like they aren't able to form a coherent argument without either controlling their emotions constructively or to be able to generate support for their argument they rely on ad hominem.

IMO you should just not do it, just take a deep breath and edit your post after posting or something.

Swinging the conversation back to the argument.

This no wars under Trump, thus there will be no wars under trump moving forward. I would have an easier time believing if Trump was actually playing the role of a strong defender/enforcer(its always a bit of a grey line here) with his supporters in the American Government.

Whereas, as it stands his allies are playing the role of a pacificist. Ie stop funding to ukraine limiting their ability to defend themselves giving russia more momentum to role through ukraine, hoping Putin will be satisfied if he takes a whole bunch of ukraine and not keep on marching.

If you watch what putins propaganda says, they think the west are bunch of sexually confused / gender confused / weak woke fuddlers / who cant support a war machine.. Now if you dont spend the money to build the ammo and weapons, Trump and his supporters in congress will prove Putin accurate. If you think rolling over the top of ukraine, Putin is then going to think, woop I cant keep going I am scared of a Trump governed US and NATO when trump is the most likely of any president not to follow NATO and help its allies you are dreaming.

Bulgaria probably jumps on the russia bandwagon Belarus style, who knows what happens with Slovakia and you have Poland trying to stop the Russian War machine...

I would have way way way more faith in Trump is he and his supporters were passing acts to send more money and weapons to ukraine to send a strong man message then the current one he is sending like he is some sort of Homelander without the super powers... which is not a particularly intimidating sight.

But hey if simple slogans like no wars under trump therefore there will be no wars going forward work better for you, be my guest.....

[Mr Squiggle]

The vast majority of American voters consider the other guy to be an affront to democracy, completely unfit for office and a danger to America and the world. I reckon when you're at that point, your democracy is probably not going to last much longer, whoever wins.

[gangrenous]

I can try to pretend the world isn’t full of… *people*

Am I reading this wrong, or given where the above was posted, this post seems to be filled with ... arrogance?

With the removed posts and the edit some of the context was lost.

But yeah it is still filled with arrogance. Do I think less of people who vote Trump? Yeah, I do.

Perhaps in future you could be more charitable to people who have a different opinion to you, whilst still maintaining the same level of thought and criticism to their political opinion?


Might make for a better place?

I have no problem with respecting people having a different opinion to mine.

But respect is earned, and if your opinion is STILL that you think the deplorable clown that puts democracy in the global superpower at risk, as well as global security. After years and years of the Bull and associated impacts on things like women’s rights?

No. No respect.

[The Nickman]

People are completely entitled to their opinions, but we in absolutely no way, shape or form need to respect them.

[-TW-]

I can try to pretend the world isn’t full of… *people*

Am I reading this wrong, or given where the above was posted, this post seems to be filled with ... arrogance?

With the removed posts and the edit some of the context was lost.

But yeah it is still filled with arrogance. Do I think less of people who vote Trump? Yeah, I do.

Perhaps in future you could be more charitable to people who have a different opinion to you, whilst still maintaining the same level of thought and criticism to their political opinion?


Might make for a better place?

100% it does, however if the opinion is formed off sources that are either regularly disproven or just tinfoil hat wearing **** and arguments against credible sources are basically "wake up sheeple or do your own research" then it's not automatically given.



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[gangrenous]

Exactly - if you didn’t reason yourself into the view, then you’re not reasoning out of it.

[Dr Zaius]

I kind of agree with Papabear. There's no need for personal attacks.

I also disagree with Dubby that it's a difference in political views. Not liking Ron DeSantis is a difference in political views. It's not about a political view with Trump because he doesn't stand for anything, just power for Trump.

Trump is a populist, A conman. He tells people what they what he needs to, and gullible people lap it up. He offers no real solutions, just sound bites.

No new wars under Trump, ergo he must be a peace maker? Simplistic thinking by simple people. Let's not mention his undermining of NATO emboldening Putin.

He's not even trying to hide what he's going to do if re-elected. It will be disastrous. People who support him are either not too bright or easily led. But you can show respect for people without respecting their views.

[gangrenous]

No new wars under Trump, ergo he must be a peace maker? Simplistic thinking by simple people. Let's not mention his undermining of NATO emboldening Putin.

He's not even trying to hide what he's going to do if re-elected. It will be disastrous. People who support him are either not too bright or easily led. But you can show respect for people without respecting their views.

Just like you did in these two paragraphs where you called them stupid?

I reckon you should own it instead of pretending to be above it.

[Dr Zaius]

No new wars under Trump, ergo he must be a peace maker? Simplistic thinking by simple people. Let's not mention his undermining of NATO emboldening Putin.

He's not even trying to hide what he's going to do if re-elected. It will be disastrous. People who support him are either not too bright or easily led. But you can show respect for people without respecting their views.

Just like you did in these two paragraphs where you called them stupid?

I reckon you should own it instead of pretending to be above it.

Ah you see, three is a difference. I've made a generalisation, not a specific insult to an individual.

[gangrenous]

Well, then you’re more aligned to me than papabear.

It’s a fairly fine line you’re drawing there. When the generalised attack is in the context of someone stating they’re in that group there’s not much difference right?

You might even say that’s a stupid view?

[Dr Zaius]

Well, then you’re more aligned to me than papabear.

It’s a fairly fine line you’re drawing there. When the generalised attack is in the context of someone stating they’re in that group there’s not much difference right?

You might even say that’s a stupid view?

See now you are getting the hang of it. You attacked my view without attacking me. Subtle but significant difference.

[The Nickman]

Ok, ok, I apologise for calling dubby dumb, I honestly didn’t mean HE is dumb, I meant he says a lot of dumb things. I know that’s not what I wrote, and I could be more selective with my language, so yes, that’s on me, and I’m sorry.

But he DOES say a lot of stupid, ill-informed, often quite bigoted, rubbish. And whenever anyone tries to debate him on any of his Fox News soundbites, he disappears into the hills until the next time.

That was the point I was trying to make, I don’t think he’s dumb at all, I just think a lot of his viewpoints are extremely backwards and sometimes insulting.

Hopefully that’s cleared up what I meant. Thanks for making me feel like a jerk Zaius, you stupid idiot.

[Dr Zaius]

Ok, ok, I apologise for calling dubby dumb, I honestly didn’t mean HE is dumb, I meant he says a lot of dumb things. I know that’s not what I wrote, and I could be more selective with my language, so yes, that’s on me, and I’m sorry.

But he DOES say a lot of stupid, ill-informed, often quite bigoted, rubbish. And whenever anyone tries to debate him on any of his Fox News soundbites, he disappears into the hills until the next time.

That was the point I was trying to make, I don’t think he’s dumb at all, I just think a lot of his viewpoints are extremely backwards and sometimes insulting.

Hopefully that’s cleared up what I meant. Thanks for making me feel like a jerk Zaius, you stupid idiot.

You know I'm always good for it.

[Botman]

I don't think anyone should be obligated to respect every opinion
As an example if you tell me vaccines cause autism or the earth is flat or that 9/11 was an inside job and jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams, I'm not going to give that opinion a single ounce of respect and I am going to think and probably say that you're an idiot.... actually in the last case, I'll probably ask you to provide more detail so I get a good laugh out of the sheer insanity of it all... love me a 9/11 truther … but my entertainment aside, I don't respect that opinion and nor should I.

If you want to tell me that Donald Trump and Joe Biden are both poor candidates is fine, I can agree or disagree but I can respect that opinion. Given Biden's age, health and what is happening in America, what has happened in his tenure and what Biden has and hasn't done to stop/fix it. Fine. I can't see that POV

Telling me the difference between the two is negligible or that Trump is a better option... that's in the flat earth stuff to me.

[papabear]

I can try to pretend the world isn’t full of… *people*

Am I reading this wrong, or given where the above was posted, this post seems to be filled with ... arrogance?

With the removed posts and the edit some of the context was lost.

But yeah it is still filled with arrogance. Do I think less of people who vote Trump? Yeah, I do.

Perhaps in future you could be more charitable to people who have a different opinion to you, whilst still maintaining the same level of thought and criticism to their political opinion?


Might make for a better place?

I have no problem with respecting people having a different opinion to mine.

But respect is earned, and if your opinion is STILL that you think the deplorable clown that puts democracy in the global superpower at risk, as well as global security. After years and years of the Bull and associated impacts on things like women’s rights?

No. No respect.

I am not saying you should respect anyone or anything. That is not my place. I agree with your comments about respect generally.


However, my comment wasn't to do with respect it was being charitable or in other words kind / nice.. so we can have a civil conversation. When harsh it either descends into rudeness or people dont want to bother responding.

[gangrenous]

To me that’s all well and good. But there’s a line beyond which it’s wasted.

Given I’m not going to convince them, I’m going to let them know I think they’re a ****. Yeah they’ll probably push back and that won’t help either. But I think it’s probably still significantly better than the kid gloves and allowing the charade of them holding a reasonable view to continue.

[yeh raiders]

I don't think anyone should be obligated to respect every opinion
As an example if you tell me vaccines cause autism or the earth is flat or that 9/11 was an inside job and jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams, I'm not going to give that opinion a single ounce of respect and I am going to think and probably say that you're an idiot.... actually in the last case, I'll probably ask you to provide more detail so I get a good laugh out of the sheer insanity of it all... love me a 9/11 truther … but my entertainment aside, I don't respect that opinion and nor should I.

That’s how I feel about people who tell me Andrew Johns is not the GOAT.

[papabear]

To me that’s all well and good. But there’s a line beyond which it’s wasted.

Given I’m not going to convince them, I’m going to let them know I think they’re a ****. Yeah they’ll probably push back and that won’t help either. But I think it’s probably still significantly better than the kid gloves and allowing the charade of them holding a reasonable view to continue.

It’s not really a charade more just a bit more decency, like if ur at the pub and someone is a maga, doesn’t mean you pop off at them and challenge them to a physical or mouthy duel, if it means that much to you just explain why you think their position isn’t particularly strong.