Is Ricky Stuart the person to lead us to another premiership?

[Hong Kong Raider]

Time for reflection. Ricky has just finished 10 years with us. 5 finals out of 10. Out of that, one GF and two PFs. We were in serious contention in 2016 and 2019. From where we once were, Ricky's time with us can be rated above average. At least we have been around the finals or thereabouts in most years, and are not a basket case club like the Wests Tigers or Canterbury.

In the 10 years, we have been the bookies' favourites once for the premiership after we beat Melbourne in Round 3 2020. It was a convincing victory away from home, none of this grinding, but us playing pure football and winning well. But we saw how that panned out as we don't handle pressure but bask in the glory of our own headlines - to lose to the Knights, Manly and Parra in quick succession. We play better when there's no expectations and we aren't expected to win: yesterday was a prime example. It's a combination of mental application and coaching.

The 2024 Raiders will be an new era with long serving Croker and Wighton gone. They have been great for us but regressed in the last three years. We played largely well yesterday but our Clive Churchill/Dally M player didn't drive this. Our highest paid player wasn't the fulcrum. And Croker wasn't even on the field. We missed our premiership window with Hodgson, Jack, Joey, Croker and CNK. Add GWilliams as we really should have done better in 2020 and made the top 4 and rested up.

We now head into our 4th rebuild. I like Ricky as a player and person - it's obvious that he cares for the players and develops them: look at how Horse, Timoko came on this year, Young, Tapine, Kris, in previous years. Even Fogarty is a better player since he joined us.

But for all his passion, I don't think Ricky is the guy to take us to another premiership. He cannot coach an attack - which really hasn't improved in the last 5 years. The defence is a shambles. So are the team selections - we didn't know our best 17 at all this year. Have a look how we set up for a field goal yesterday. Lack of discipline also featured at the end of the year. We play dumb football - still. We lack coaching on basics and skills. He still blames refs and luck for losses; not himself or the team. His own personality traits get in the way of success.

Passion cannot overcome good tactics, football smarts and coaching.

[BJ]

Based on the current CEO and Board we all know Ricky isn’t going anywhere in the next few seasons.

So I want the Raiders Executive to ensure we source the best available assistant attacking coach to boost Ricky’s weakest areas.

I can’t fault Ricky for his ability to bring a team together, get them up for a big game or push themselves to be a tough player. But I can fault his ability to structure a modern attacking game. Hopefully Ricky and the Executive swallow any pride and do an honest review.

[T_R]

No

[The Nickman]

No.

[NoMan]

He looked really tired in the press conferences towards the end of the season and his unprofessionalism became pretty hard to excuse.

I truly wouldn't be surprised if he moved into a hands on GM type role and Madge took over as Head Coach so Ricky could avoid media duties. It would be a terrible combination but it wouldnt stop the club doing it.

[Off]

NO, and it's my DNA.

Sent from my SM-A536E using Tapatalk

[Old School Green]

Good reflection.

I'm thinking he will move to a Director of Football role (ie: Gus Gould) at some stage (2025?) and take control of recruitment and those types of networking duties. I assume Madge will slot in and they have already pretty much guaranteed this to him (succession planning) hence his non-interest in looking elsewhere.

Whether that should happen or not is another question....but I think that is what might happen?

[Mickey_Raider]

No, but it is truly amazing how we can continually manage to be heavily involved in finals campaigns despite being so systemically flawed.

Ricky has built a very very good pack, but as has been well covered elsewhere, we don’t know what the hell we are doing in the red zone and don’t take advantage of forward dominance. It has been thus for most of his tenure.

What it tells me is even a modest improvement in our attack and we could be contending for a premiership.

Will this happen under Ricky? Not under the status quo. He has proven over a long period of time that he is incredibly stubborn and has the turning circle of the titanic when it comes to making reforms.

However, if the club and Ricky had the self awareness and humility to recognise that what we do now isn’t good enough, and looked to bring in personnel who can restructure us accordingly, then we could maybe start talking about winning a chip with Ricky around.

But until that happens I won’t hold my breath.

[Rickmando]

We have even average-level coaching yesterday to pair with the effort of the players, and we win the game comfortably.

He just brings our ceiling down so far with his conservative, negative outlook and lack of structure.

And after 10 years, he’s had more than enough time. It’s time for a new voice and ideas at the club

[GreenMachine]

No.
Next question.

[Brew]

As the Head Honcho of the Rickyheads my answer is yes!

All the good coaches have that one superstar player that is like a Coach on the field. Bellamy had Smith. Walters has Reynolds. Penrith have Cleary.

Our spine is on paper worse than a few other teams who failed to make the 8.

Club has to land a big fish. Just pay him whatever. Buck the trend. Get Luai if you have to.
Imagine Young and Kris running off Luai.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Off]

Only if he promises to make gangsta style hand signals.

Sent from my SM-A536E using Tapatalk

[BadnMean]

No. For reasons similar to @Rickmando.

I just think he's taken the team as far as he can. There was no improvement in the team over 27 rounds this season. We are a little bit worse than last year which was worse than the year before etc.

It's his squad- he owns it after 10 years and it's an ungainly unbalanced roster with gaping holes at the edges and stifling lack of speed.

There was a 20 min period where Newcastle made some nice yards in the middle and then just went to our left and shredded it time and again by getting outside with pace. It's a limiting factor on the team. Has been for years now and we've seen half decent teams expose it in finals again and again now for years at the higher level games (Melbourne the most clinical, Knights the most recent).

We were without our 3 biggest metre eaters in Papa, Hors and Hoppa and we still made a ton of yards. We will find yards with our roster for sure. But balance it with some speed/strike and ideally a ball player somewhere. Ricky doesn't see this or agree with it. He keeps falling short.

Also a worry is his return to blaming the refs, the bounce of the ball etc. We were at our best when he brought a sports psych in who had him and the team laser focussed on the controllables and accountability. Now results are ascribed to outside influences- luck, refs and the team looks frustrated and lacks the belief/will to defend. That's on Rick and the backslide in his attitude. He's cooked right now and he needs to smarten that up or it'll infect the team next year too.

You can't grow until you own what is happing and your part in it. This team stopped growing some time ago.

[Raidernation]

Rick knows what a state of origin player looks like, can develop players into internationals, can get the team up for big games.
He can't coach attack and he can't develop halves but has been able to develop the kicking games of our halves.
He allows his assistants autonomy so good assistants generally produce results so long as there are a good set of players.
Team cant buy great halves so have to develop them or buy older unwanted halves and develop them.
Is this season poor coaching or poor players? Is Maguire an average defensive coach or are there so many holes in the side that coaching a defense with croker, whitehead and 3 middle forwards with average speed holding him back?
If we make a change it can't be a rookie coach with no record.
One thing is for certain is that if we can't buy a top half we must be able to develop one and if Stuart can't and Crawley can't we need to bring in a dedicated halves/spine coach to work with all of our halves throughout the grades.

[Pete Cash]

I think on the balance of probabilities no. Of course the game may introduce some dumb rule he gets the jump on the meta of and we happen to have a player who can really exploit it (I'd argue the strip rule helped the side big time)

But as the rules stand right now nah

His bench use and his utter disdain for speed kills the side. It's not like he couldn't wrangle up a few speedsters either. He just values yardage from the back 5 over anything else.

Under the current interpretation of the rules he is good enough to make a scrappy team that might be in the mix but too exploitable for the good teams. The panthers must love playing us.

It's actually comical how he gasses this already slow side out every week.

So yeah that's not even getting into the sides complete lack of skill in key position. Rick defenders might say we just lack the cattle but it's well beyond that. It's quite clear that a lot of the criticisms of hodgson was him just doing what the coach wanted and hodgson had skill.

But it's a lack of vision of what works in 2023 nrl.

[dubby]

Yes.

We are about to undertake a rebuilding state. Every time he has done this in the past, it has worked. It will work again. Sanders, Strange, Stewart all signed to play under Ricky.

What we need is a Sia type of leadership player, probably two. Proven winners and professional players to set the culture and standard required to mentor the youth. Remember when we had Jeff Lima? His influence off field (rehab and training and attitude) played a significant part influencing others.

I do agree that Ricky could improve. I think that is the crux of the issue here. He did it in 2015 and 2019.

How can he improve?

In my opinion, he could better use his bench. On game day, he makes decisions on gut feeling IMO. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.

Attack can improve. But, in order to do that we need way better 9s than Germ, Levi, and Starling. Trevilyn is our best long term 9. He will play more NRL next year. We also need a damn better fullback. Stewart is that answer. But he is developing. People will go on about Savage, and it is weird Ricky went with Kris for so long. I see Savage as a future winger. And he will be a good replacement for Hoppa and when Rapa retires.

We need a better 6. Jack was incredible once, always rocks and diamonds but a genuine gamebreaker on his day (either way). This position along with 9 really concerns me. Genuine halves are rare these days, and its a bit of a worry for next year, if the youth do not stand up.

Fog is a decent half. But he is not a premiership winner.

My point is that we have a really poor spine. In fact, its bad. We are busy recruiting youth to invest in and in the meantime we have a period where we need to persevere until they are ready.

Hardly anyone deemed us a finals team, yet we made it. In spite of a makeshift spine. The departure of GWilly hurt, and forced us into plucking Fogarty from potential obscurity.

This does remind me a bit of 2013 when we had McCrone running around like a headless chook, Buttriss at 9, Reece Robinson and Bill Tupou in the team. Our big hope was Sami Sailuma and Milford.

Ricky can improve our attack with a better spine. Our defence can improve, I admit. And this is a leadership void to an extent. As much as he was a mercenary, Bateman drove a high standard defensively and it lifted our boys. Time to address that again.

[RedRaider]

Ricky has another 2 years to run on his coaching contract. He's going nowhere. In that two years we have potentially the best young spine available coming through. He would have played a part in recruiting them. The common feature of the youngsters is footy nous. They seem to know what to do with the ball. We can't really say that about our current spine.

I expect we will again be a Top 8 side in 2024, but the experience gained won't come until 2025 and beyond. The pack, with the possible exception of EW, will all be with us up until then. We need to recruit back row forwards. At least 2 imo.

[rayden83]

No

We've gone backwards under Stuart last few years. Mostly this is due to losing players and failure to recruit well, but it's also due to Stuart's troglodyte tactics that so often get exposed by the good teams. He's certainly instilled a battler, backs to the wall mentality among the playing group, which is handy and keeps us in the fight at times, but not enough to overcome his tactical obsolescence at the attack and defensive ends.

As our squad and depth continues to suffer we will continue to backpedal and I'm not prepared to wait 5-10 years for another golden generation to come to fruition to paper over Stuart's deficiencies.

The question is do we settle for being a fringe top 8 team that isn't a basket case like Tigers and Dogs but will never win a Premiership, or do we risk further decline in order to replenish the clubs squad, culture and strategy and maybe gives the fans some renewed hope?

[NoMan]

Yes.

We are about to undertake a rebuilding state. Every time he has done this in the past, it has worked. It will work again. Sanders, Strange, Stewart all signed to play under Ricky.

I wouldn't say that. He was sacked from a couple of clubs for a reason.

[rayden83]

In that two years we have potentially the best young spine available coming through.

They say this about every half who comes through the Canberra system. Remember when S Williams, Schneider, Cornish, McIlwrick etc were all destined for super stardom?

Ironically the only one who really made it was Lachlan Croker, who Sticky didnt rate.

It's foolish to predict future success based on the reputations of a few players playing lower grades and youth competitions. NRL is a whole different beast and you never know how a player with cope at the elite level. In fact best to assume that players like Strange, Stewart etc won't make it rather than building your squad and future success around such unpredictable variables.

[Billy Walker]

Yes - things will improve in the post Croker era. The team will find its identity and I think a premiership is back on the cards despite of Ricky.

[-PJ-]

I don’t care who coaches, just want a premiership.

As for Ricky..we’ll he’s pig headed.

I’d happy for him to stay but let’s hire some help.

AND..How do I get me some of that Raiders DNA ?

[dubby]

Yes.

We are about to undertake a rebuilding state. Every time he has done this in the past, it has worked. It will work again. Sanders, Strange, Stewart all signed to play under Ricky.

I wouldn't say that. He was sacked from a couple of clubs for a reason.

He left Parra. He ran out of Cronulla. He was "sacked" by the Roosters because they were chasing Wayne Bennett.

And, remember, current premiership winning coach Ivan Cleary was sacked as well.

[greeneyed]

Realistically, Ricky is the coach as long as he wants. I’m not sure that’s a healthy situation but it’s how it is. Neither the attack nor the defence were up to the mark this year. Far, far from it. Somethings got to give there. The attack needs the most work. The idea that the Raiders were “unlucky” not to be top four… when your defence is bottom five and your attack is bottom four… that doesn’t wash.

Also a worry is his return to blaming the refs, the bounce of the ball etc. We were at our best when he brought a sports psych in who had him and the team laser focussed on the controllables and accountability. Now results are ascribed to outside influences- luck, refs and the team looks frustrated and lacks the belief/will to defend. That's on Rick and the backslide in his attitude.

I’m not sure I agree with these words exactly, but agree with the sentiment.

The coach can’t keep giving out public (or internal) messages which absolve the players and club of accountability. To focus on things which are not in the control of club, coaches and players. Sure, ask politely for explanations behind closed doors. Leave all the rest to the fans and media. Indeed I’d argue the fans should be actively keeping the NRL publicly accountable. But the club, coaches and players should stay out of all that. It is counterproductive. It grates with the officials and makes them less likely, subconsciously, to treat you well.

The only message the coach should give about luck is the thing Jack Gibson used to say: "All teams are lucky, you've just got to put yourself in the position to take advantage of it."

Anyway, major changes are needed.

[deanoman]

Yes.

I have witness what happens when a Matt Elliot type is brought in. Chasing a premiership every year isn’t realistic, and I would bet, anybody saying NO would jump if they were offered a Grand Final, 2 prelims and 5 final appearances 10 years ago. He is the perfect coach for the Raiders. He loves the club and understand what it means to the fans.

Too many other clubs are in shambles because of head coaches not being hard nosed and pigheaded.

[-TW-]

A coaching style has a limited lifespan with a group of players

So generally one of two things needs to change, players or coach.

He's probably lucky that there'll be a generational change next season, I do note his comments that he said Jack is a centre and he was doing a role for the team.

That gives me confidence our **** gameplan was to make it as simple as possible for Jack

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[CrabLord]

Like it or not Ricky does more than any coach has been able to in corporate sponsorship, player recruitment and success. Ricky will be around in some capacity whether or not as coach, but he certainly has a job at Canberra for life. I understand the way he presents to the media is frustrating for those who understand football. But I have also been thinking lately that this persona caters to the facebook type fan. You know, the ones typing comments out last night that Croker should have been in the side last night and the last few weeks to steady the ship and win the game.

Remember the years under Furner? We were all pumped up when we won an elimination finals match against Cronulla only to be completely destroyed by South Sydney. Under Ricky we have had a few seasons where we have at least been sniffing around a premiership.

Is he the best possible coach? Probably not. Is his involvement in the club as coach, or GM type role our best shot at relevancy, recruitment and success overall? I think yes.

[RedRaider]

In that two years we have potentially the best young spine available coming through.

They say this about every half who comes through the Canberra system. Remember when S Williams, Schneider, Cornish, McIlwrick etc were all destined for super stardom?

Ironically the only one who really made it was Lachlan Croker, who Sticky didnt rate.

It's foolish to predict future success based on the reputations of a few players playing lower grades and youth competitions. NRL is a whole different beast and you never know how a player with cope at the elite level. In fact best to assume that players like Strange, Stewart etc won't make it rather than building your squad and future success around such unpredictable variables.

While I take your point on lower grades v NRL as I've made that same point before, I don't recall anyone calling the four players named as being destined for 'super stardom'. Similar with the young group coming through - I have said "potentially the best young spine available coming through" for a reason. No one is calling them 'super stars' at this point in their careers. But they all have potential and they will be coming into the NRL with a seasoned pack of forwards in front of them. You're allowed to be excited by potential, particularly after the way the NSW U/19 side performed against Qld U/19. It was these Raider youngsters who stood out.

I have no idea why you would think "In fact best to assume that players ..... won't make it"? Why on Earth is that best??

[Robert the Bruce]

Wait this is our 4th rebuild under Stuart? As far as I'm concerned we are about to embark on our 2nd?
Our 1st being when he took us from arguably the lowest point in the club's history to a prelim in 3 years, then a GF in 6. Yes it's been 5 finals appearances in his tenure, but 4 out of those 5 have been in the last 5 years, it feels like our floor has slowly lifted to being a competitive finals team from perennially finishing 10th.

[greeneyed]

A coaching style has a limited lifespan with a group of players

So generally one of two things needs to change, players or coach.

He's probably lucky that there'll be a generational change next season, I do note his comments that he said Jack is a centre and he was doing a role for the team.

That gives me confidence our **** gameplan was to make it as simple as possible for Jack

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

This is infuriating and it does not wash either. Ricky Stuart has been telling us for years that Jack Wighton is a fullback and a five eighth. Years. Earlier this year, he was prepared to pay him $1.2 million a season to be his No. 1 half/play maker. Now, after deciding to leave and producing an absolutely awful season, and Ricky Stuart picks Wighton at centre for his final two games at the club... now we're told he's a centre!

[greeneyed]

Like it or not Ricky does more than any coach has been able to in corporate sponsorship, player recruitment and success. Ricky will be around in some capacity whether or not as coach, but he certainly has a job at Canberra for life. I understand the way he presents to the media is frustrating for those who understand football. But I have also been thinking lately that this persona caters to the facebook type fan. You know, the ones typing comments out last night that Croker should have been in the side last night and the last few weeks to steady the ship and win the game.

Remember the years under Furner? We were all pumped up when we won an elimination finals match against Cronulla only to be completely destroyed by South Sydney. Under Ricky we have had a few seasons where we have at least been sniffing around a premiership.

Is he the best possible coach? Probably not. Is his involvement in the club as coach, or GM type role our best shot at relevancy, recruitment and success overall? I think yes.

I absolutely think he would be great in an Ambassador at Large role for the club, which has overall responsibility for recruitment and development. But he'd also have to work in with the sort of team a future new coach wants.

[Azza]

A coaching style has a limited lifespan with a group of players

So generally one of two things needs to change, players or coach.

He's probably lucky that there'll be a generational change next season, I do note his comments that he said Jack is a centre and he was doing a role for the team.

That gives me confidence our **** gameplan was to make it as simple as possible for Jack

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

This is infuriating and it does not wash either. Ricky Stuart has been telling us for years that Jack Wighton is a fullback and a five eighth. Years. Earlier this year, he was prepared to pay him $1.2 million a season to be his No. 1 half/play maker. Now, after deciding to leave and producing an absolutely awful season, and Ricky Stuart picks Wighton at centre for his final two games at the club... now we're told he's a centre!

It didn't wash with me either. He's going mad with power IMO, and basically contradicting himself 50% of the time.

[greeneyed]

In that two years we have potentially the best young spine available coming through.

They say this about every half who comes through the Canberra system. Remember when S Williams, Schneider, Cornish, McIlwrick etc were all destined for super stardom?

Ironically the only one who really made it was Lachlan Croker, who Sticky didnt rate.

It's foolish to predict future success based on the reputations of a few players playing lower grades and youth competitions. NRL is a whole different beast and you never know how a player with cope at the elite level. In fact best to assume that players like Strange, Stewart etc won't make it rather than building your squad and future success around such unpredictable variables.

While I take your point on lower grades v NRL as I've made that same point before, I don't recall anyone calling the four players named as being destined for 'super stardom'. Similar with the young group coming through - I have said "potentially the best young spine available coming through" for a reason. No one is calling them 'super stars' at this point in their careers. But they all have potential and they will be coming into the NRL with a seasoned pack of forwards in front of them. You're allowed to be excited by potential, particularly after the way the NSW U/19 side performed against Qld U/19. It was these Raider youngsters who stood out.

I have no idea why you would think "In fact best to assume that players ..... won't make it"? Why on Earth is that best??

I think everyone agrees that only a small proportion of junior players will make it to NRL level and a smaller proportion will become elite players. But if you think back to most of the elite players in recent history, they've been picked up by their clubs as a promising junior. Surely, the only way of identifying such players is to try and pick up the most outstanding talents at junior level? What other indicator do you use? What you need to do is try and pick up as many of the best junior players that you can - and to the Raiders' credit, they seem to be doing pretty well at that.

Converting good juniors into regular first graders, elite talent... that requires development work as well... but you have to start with talent.

[daley6]

As the Head Honcho of the Rickyheads my answer is yes!

All the good coaches have that one superstar player that is like a Coach on the field. Bellamy had Smith. Walters has Reynolds. Penrith have Cleary.

Our spine is on paper worse than a few other teams who failed to make the 8.

Club has to land a big fish. Just pay him whatever. Buck the trend. Get Luai if you have to.
Imagine Young and Kris running off Luai.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So would we be UP THE RAHS!!!

[dubby]

As the Head Honcho of the Rickyheads my answer is yes!

All the good coaches have that one superstar player that is like a Coach on the field. Bellamy had Smith. Walters has Reynolds. Penrith have Cleary.

Our spine is on paper worse than a few other teams who failed to make the 8.

Club has to land a big fish. Just pay him whatever. Buck the trend. Get Luai if you have to.
Imagine Young and Kris running off Luai.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So would we be UP THE RAHS!!!

That term the "wahs" is completely stupid. It's akin to the "fins up" saying which is also terrible