The Politics Thread 2023

[Boomercm]

You may wish it were different, but it is not bollocks. And even most of the folks that wish it were different would flip on a dime if it were their ingroup involved.

A good recent example of this general principle was when the US supplied cluster munitions to the Ukraine in July. They were running out of other artillery to supply, which would have left the Ukrainians at a distinct disadvantage. It was discussed in the news else I wouldn't know about it. But the outcry for breaking that rule of war (Hague convention I think) seemed pretty muted to me, especially from the very same news outlets raging about Israel committing war crimes recently. How many people that follow these news outlets can honestly say they worry equally about the Ukraine breaking the rues of war?

As I said, no war has ever been fought according to the rules/conventions (I stand to be corrected if anyone has an example). How far you can stretch the rules all depends on how much support you have and from whom. Which brings us back to rule 1.

[The Nickman]

I thought that Rule 1 was everybody has ****?

[papabear]

There was a Facebook post by ABC Australia in regards to the second moon landing. Of course, this bought out all the moon landing denialists. Clicking on their profile, most were American, and most appeared to be Trump supporters (amongst other things such as covid and climate change denial). One of said posters explained it, they are critical thinkers you see.

Why is it that people are claim to be critical thinkers and others sheep most often demonstrate no critical reasoning skills and are willing to believe next to any conspiracy theory without any sort of consideration or proof? What has happened to the US that this is so prevalent there?

Kind of tangential but you know with the point about the ABC I think there is a broader issue of media being more preoccupied with being perceived as “balanced” than being focused on producing factually/intellectually sound content.

For example, take the Middle East conflict.

We would be much better served hearing more from experts in international law, law of armed conflict and humanitarian law rather than talking heads from the Jewish lobby, Dave Sharma or the Aussie Palestinian Action Network.

The latter will invariably have their (to be fair, completely understandable) agendas, but they are sought for comment way more than the former.

The ABC has become very much guilty of this IMO.

I think your half way there.

Talking heads dont help much but may provide some entertainment and fuel whichever narrative you feel like filling up on. An expert on international law is about as useful as a talking head but generally a little less entertaining...

I think any news service is helped if they have people on the ground talking to the soldiers / civilians etc and have people show and tell their stories.

[Mickey_Raider]

Is Labor in actual trouble or is it just a typical mid term slump?

It feels like the pile on is accelerating and the polls are all heading south on both the party and Albanese.

They are going to have to re-seize the narrative in 2024 because on current trends they are going to find it pretty hard to hold on to a narrow majority.

[The Nickman]

Is Labor in actual trouble or is it just a typical mid term slump?

It feels like the pile on is accelerating and the polls are all heading south on both the party and Albanese.

They are going to have to re-seize the narrative in 2024 because on current trends they are going to find it pretty hard to hold on to a narrow majority.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the Liberals are stupid enough to take Dutton into the next electgion, they simply won't win.

If they change to literally anybody else, Albanese will be in a spot of trouble.

[papabear]

Is Labor in actual trouble or is it just a typical mid term slump?

It feels like the pile on is accelerating and the polls are all heading south on both the party and Albanese.

They are going to have to re-seize the narrative in 2024 because on current trends they are going to find it pretty hard to hold on to a narrow majority.

it depends on how the economy is going by that I mean inflation / interest rates / house prices.

If inflation is down I think labor will be ok as you should be able to get one of the other too - ie high interest rates/ lower house prices or low interest rates / higher house prices :/

[Mickey_Raider]

Is Labor in actual trouble or is it just a typical mid term slump?

It feels like the pile on is accelerating and the polls are all heading south on both the party and Albanese.

They are going to have to re-seize the narrative in 2024 because on current trends they are going to find it pretty hard to hold on to a narrow majority.

it depends on how the economy is going by that I mean inflation / interest rates / house prices.

If inflation is down I think labor will be ok as you should be able to get one of the other too - ie high interest rates/ lower house prices or low interest rates / higher house prices :/

I think you may be right because inflation is actually dropping quite quickly, contrary to much of the discourse.

It is 4.9% at the moment so I think it is not unreasonable to think it might be approaching the target band or at least start with a 3 heading into election season.

I guess though the ALP would be pretty disappointed to be scrapping to hold on to a majority after only one term, particularly given the popularity they enjoyed even 6 months ago.

But they will have a two-pronged fight on their hands to win 76+ seats, from the LNP in the outer suburbs and the Greens in the inner cities, IMO.

[Off]

I've seen a lot come and go in my time, the single biggest waste of oxygen is this current labour mob, and ill be **** if ill ever call that wet leaf gimp albo my prime minister.

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[Mickey_Raider]

I guess you’ll be ****** then because whether or not you wish to call him it or not he is, as a matter of fact, your prime minister.

[Off]

Nah mate hes all yours.

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[Boomercm]

I said a few weeks back that woke culture (I can't find a more acceptable term. I'm not sure what to call it) casting the jews as oppressors and colonisers would lead to a shift in the balance of power, away from that culture. It wasn't a popular opinion, but nonetheless we are beginning to see that happen. The testimony of the Ivy League university presidents in front of congress has turbo charged that shift.

This article outlines the beginning of the end for one of those presidents.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/07/busi ... index.html

But the key line is this one:

“Our board has been, and remains, deeply concerned about the dangerous and toxic culture on our campus that has been led by a select group of students and faculty and has been permitted by University leadership,” the Wharton board letter said.


Once the business leaders and donors have the inclination to step in and peg back that culture, it will severely limit its power. This is a good thing for humanity, returning some balance to the force. Perhaps this was inevitable and there was no reason for ppl like me to be alarmed.

[Boomercm]

and on a related but seperate note. What were people's thoughts on this 'controversial' social media post? Does anyone here think that the raiders should be considering LGBTIQ+ representation as more important than performance in our recruiting?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 89f30edb26


But tbh I don't really care about the original post. But I absolutely find it disturbing that Adam D had to delete his reply to it. And as justification his reply was labelled as homophobic? Are we now at the point where... as a professional and in your real name, you are never allowed to express an alternate opinion on even the more extreme edges of woke/cancel culture? Surely there are ramifications for suppressing these opinions [hence the need to limit the power of this group think, which imo is thankfully happening]

[gangrenous]

“Why can’t we just let bigots be bigots anymore? The world was so much easier when bigots didn’t have to worry that people might actually call them out for being jerks…”

Cry me a river boomer.

[Boomercm]

“Why can’t we just let bigots be bigots anymore? The world was so much easier when bigots didn’t have to worry that people might actually call them out for being jerks…”

Cry me a river boomer.

Let's be clear for those that don't read the article.

It wasn't Adam D saying that LGBTQI+ status mattered, He was saying your sexuality should not matter at all to how you are treated. He was saying it was embarrassing to suggest that everyone should not be treated equally, regardless of sexual preference. This, I believe, is where all sensible people should sit on such matters. It is what the social justice movement used to be all about.

The problem is that the bigots have really changed sides... and for a while now these new bigots have wielded too much power to be criticised and brought back in to line (just like the church bigots in the old days). It seems to be slowly self correcting though, which is good.

[greeneyed]

Tigers rule on star’s controversial deleted post: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 89f30edb26

Douehi deleted it himself, he wasn’t forced to. The Tigers accepted his explanation that he felt the nature of the post from the EPL was embarrassing in the sense it should not try and tell people how to speak. The EPL post was clunky. He’s fortunate that one word can be interpreted in more than one way, given his previous stances.

But the EPL post was well meaning. Encouraging openness and acceptance. What’s wrong with that? Often in sport, acceptance still only comes for LGBTQ athletes if they’re silent about who they are. It’s a bigoted environment. The EPL clearly wants that to change. Language does matter. Generally bigots complain when that’s pointed out. Good on the EPL.

[Boomercm]

I was in the Aethiest club at uni. I dislike religious bigots as much (maybe more) than anyone. But you can't suppress people's opinions without it coming back as angst and anger in the population. This is how you end up with other bad things, like Trump. You argue against it, you don't suppress it.

And the part of the EPL post where it says DONT SAY "performance is the most important thing and identity doesn't matter" is not just clunky... it is the extreme edge of the ideology. It is the same language shift that has been applied in the switch from colour blindness ideology (i.e., MLK --> the aim of social justice is to move past race as relevant) to identity politics (i.e., everyone should first consider their identity in terms of the things you can not change, like gender, sexuality, race, etc). That part of the inclusion post (not the rest) should be highlighted and criticised at every possible opportunity.

[gangrenous]

“Why can’t we just let bigots be bigots anymore? The world was so much easier when bigots didn’t have to worry that people might actually call them out for being jerks…”

Cry me a river boomer.

Let's be clear for those that don't read the article.

It wasn't Adam D saying that LGBTQI+ status mattered, He was saying your sexuality should not matter at all to how you are treated. He was saying it was embarrassing to suggest that everyone should not be treated equally, regardless of sexual preference. This, I believe, is where all sensible people should sit on such matters. It is what the social justice movement used to be all about.

The problem is that the bigots have really changed sides... and for a while now these new bigots have wielded too much power to be criticised and brought back in to line (just like the church bigots in the old days). It seems to be slowly self correcting though, which is good.

Yes, let’s be clear.

That’s his BS excuse to try and take the heat off the situation, and it was probably crafted for him by the Tigers. He has form for this as well as GE mentioned, so there’s zero reason for any benefit of the doubt.

The consequences of his own actions. How sad.

[greeneyed]

It’s pretty remarkable that people who are calling for tolerance and acceptance are now the “new bigots”, because they’re saying… hey, discrimination on the basis of sex, age, sexual orientation, disability and the promotion of hate against minority groups, well that’s not what decent human beings do in the 21st century.

Just mind boggling that we’re being told “it’s now all their fault that there’s more bigotry”.

[gangrenous]

Yep. This threat of “well if you won’t let us be ***** out loud we’ll vote for people like Trump who make it okay to be **** out loud again”

No. Get bent. Try not being a ****.

[gangrenous]

And the part of the EPL post where it says DONT SAY "performance is the most important thing and identity doesn't matter" is not just clunky... it is the extreme edge of the ideology

Think you’re getting all henny penny over this bit also. I don’t see anything wrong with what they’ve said. Identity, politics, and culture are always going to be part of sport. It’s accurate, and I don’t see how it’s considered at all extreme.

Are we complaining about the Indigenous All Stars match or Indigenous round? Women in league round? Taking a knee during the US anthems for BLM? Was it woke culture in 68, with the Black Power salute?

To a less overt example kids (and adults) often identify with different players who resemble them and give them someone to cheer for and perhaps aspire to be.

What is so extreme or horrifying about this? If you don’t like it you’re free to use your voice and vote with your dollars. Just don’t expect the world to applaud you having a view if your view sucks.

[Dr Zaius]

I didn't see the EPL post, but from the article that Boomer posted, were they encouraging inclusion over performance? In a professional league? If so, then it is an embarrassing post.

[greeneyed]

I didn't see the EPL post, but from the article that Boomer posted, were they encouraging inclusion over performance? In a professional league? If so, then it is an embarrassing post.

The post is included above. On my reading, it wasn’t saying that. Basically, they’re saying it’s a good thing to promote inclusion and acceptance in sport, through their rainbow laces initiative.

[Dr Zaius]

I didn't see the EPL post, but from the article that Boomer posted, were they encouraging inclusion over performance? In a professional league? If so, then it is an embarrassing post.

The post is included above. On my reading, it wasn’t saying that. Basically, they’re saying it’s a good thing to promote inclusion and acceptance in sport, through their rainbow laces initiative.

OK thanks for that. I can get on board with that.

[Dr Zaius]

I don't disagree with some of Boomers sentiment though that cancel culture is not helpful and at times harmful.

[gangrenous]

Well sure. But when someone complains about vote tampering stopping Trump winning the election, might not be the best time to go “yeah agree with the sentiment that vote tampering is bad”…

[Off]

Woke can EDIT.

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[papabear]

Honestly, does anyone enjoy being told what not to say.

By all means support rainbow laces have rainbow flags, post with rainbows and all the rest of it bring happiness, diversity and inclusivity to your game.

But, anything that starts with don't say in a political contest seems like a bit of a dog whistle for the woke to me. If you are going to be a corporate situation and entering into a charged sort of space I think, taking a second to think about the execution is always a good idea.

I personally dont like people putting LGBTQ issues and collating them with censorship.

[gangrenous]

A dog whistle for the woke?

What in the actual…

[-TW-]

Woke is a word ***** go with when they don't like/can't understand a concept

[Off]

Exhibit A.

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[-TW-]

Edit: I cbf engaging

[Off]

Edit: I cbf engaging

Exhibit B

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[gangrenous]

Edit: I cbf engaging

Right call.

[Boomercm]

Woke is a word **** go with when they don't like/can't understand a concept

I used to think this too. But really, there is a very real movement out there that encapsulates cancel culture, identity politics, cultural marxism ideas, the DEI movement, et al. Woke is as good a word as any to describe it. If you don't believe it is a real thing, listen to this (democrat) talk about the statistics behind it on Lex's podcast

I used to think this too. But really, there is a very real movement out there that encapsulates cancel culture, identity politics, cultural marxism ideas, the DEI movement, et al. Woke is as good a word as any to describe it.

If you don't believe it is a real thing (some genuinely don't), listen to Greg Lukianof (a democrat) discuss the statistics behind it on Lex's podcast a couple of months back.



I have come to think the poisoning of the term woke is a bit like cancel culture itself. Just another way that movement resists criticism and cancels people.

[Boomercm]

I didn't see the EPL post, but from the article that Boomer posted, were they encouraging inclusion over performance? In a professional league? If so, then it is an embarrassing post.

I based my initial post on the article you read. I would have worded my criticism differently had I seen the original as posted by GE.

It was poor reporting by the article to over-emphasise the performance over inclusion aspect. It was there, but only a small part of it.

My error for not fact checking. I'm the first to point out that you can't trust news media to report stuff accurately nowadays. I was rushed/lazy and happy to believe what was written because it fit within my preconceptions.