Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

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Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by T_R »

Veteran referee spills on infamous NRL grand final blunder



Veteran rugby league referee Ben Cummins has opened up about his infamous mistake during the 2019 NRL grand final, confessing he felt “ashamed” and “worthless” after the incident.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 620b49a00b

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Re: I stuffed up big time: 2019 Grandfinal

Post by dubby »

To be fair, he got the call from Sutton.
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Re: I stuffed up big time: 2019 Grandfinal

Post by Finchy »

He maintains he ultimately got the call right but Wighton didn't hear it. Did anyone ever confirm that the ball wasn't touched by Tedesco? I'm sure it should have been six again, but never saw any replays of that actual moment.

And ultimately it wasn't "the right call" regardless. You can't change your mind. If you say six again you can't say "oh wait, it's the last still actually."
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Re: I stuffed up big time: 2019 Grandfinal

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Finchy wrote: August 13, 2022, 12:49 pm He maintains he ultimately got the call right but Wighton didn't hear it. Did anyone ever confirm that the ball wasn't touched by Tedesco? I'm sure it should have been six again, but never saw any replays of that actual moment.

And ultimately it wasn't "the right call" regardless. You can't change your mind. If you say six again you can't say "oh wait, it's the last still actually."
Yeah it's a bit weird the NRL continues to insist it was the right call. It was inconclusive from all angles I've seen, hard to believe it would rebound at the angle it did only touching Simo.

RE: Cummins -some people just take things way too far with the abuse. Nothing worse than going to a game and hearing officials be abused from the first minute.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Daniel »

Being a referee would be a thankless task. I certainly wouldn't encourage a friend or family member to do it.

As for the grand final, the 'six again' call never bothered me that much. I've always felt more aggrieved by the Roosters being rewarded with possession after the ball hit their trainer who stopped our try-scoring opportunity. Not the referee's fault, but a ridiculous rule.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by gangrenous »

Referees are going to make mistakes. What annoys me about the 2019 Grand Final is that no one had the sense to go - “The referee made a slip up directly impacting the play. Let’s reset the play”. It’s the best you can do in that situation.

What really pisses me off, is that the NRL haven’t moved to rectify either the referee error, or the trainer situation appropriately in the rules.

I hate that they won’t acknowledge they screwed a Grand Final publicly, but I understand it. I cant forgive not moving to fix the rules, and this is one of those cases where in my opinion we’d have seen a rule change had it been a favoured team pineappled.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Raider Azz »

The referres are constantly put in an impossible position, very little blame lies with them. The real blame lies with clowns like Annesley and Vlandys, who constantly change the rules at the behest of media "pundits", then when mistakes are inevitably made by the referees who are only human instead of admitting their mistakes the NRL doubles down and bends over backwards to explain why they were right.

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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by greeneyed »

gangrenous wrote: August 13, 2022, 1:54 pm Referees are going to make mistakes. What annoys me about the 2019 Grand Final is that no one had the sense to go - “The referee made a slip up directly impacting the play. Let’s reset the play”. It’s the best you can do in that situation.

What really pisses me off, is that the NRL haven’t moved to rectify either the referee error, or the trainer situation appropriately in the rules.

I hate that they won’t acknowledge they screwed a Grand Final publicly, but I understand it. I cant forgive not moving to fix the rules, and this is one of those cases where in my opinion we’d have seen a rule change had it been a favoured team pineappled.
They did change the trainer rule:

The NRL has announced a change to the "mutual infringement" rule regarding incidents when the ball strikes a trainer or the referee. Previously, the loose head and feed would be awarded to whichever team "the attacking team (i.e. with territorial advantage)". Under the new rule, the referee will be able to replay the previous play-the-ball in the event of play being irregularly affected by circumstances out of the players' control.

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/12/06/nrl ... ge-system/

The captain's challenge also sprang out of the six again call in the 2019 Grand Final. But I'm not sure whether that has improved things or not.

I still find it frustrating that the NRL claimed that change in the decision led to the "correct" call. I don't think it did. And in that narrative, the NRL just ignores the rule that says a referee shouldn't change a decision.

Agree with the comments made that the NRL has added pressure on the referees, not reduced, them, by constantly adding complexity to the game by constantly introducing new rules. Simplification is needed, to make the game easier for referees to handle.

I do feel sorry for Cummins and his family in the aftermath.
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Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by gangrenous »

You missed the key word of “appropriately” GE!

There is no way the Roosters should be rewarded by getting the ball back from an attacking opportunity of the Raiders because their trainer illegally interfered in the play.

And preempting anyone claiming he’s not on there illegally, they can explain the justification for him being on the field 2 mins into the game.

The Captain’s call was in my view a good development that arguably came from the debacle. But does nothing to help that particular situation in 6 again.
Last edited by gangrenous on August 13, 2022, 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by gangrenous »

Also add that anyone going after referees in their personal life, and particularly their family, needs to pull their head in. Disgusting behaviour.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Old School Green »

No way should he have changed the call after signalling it. Just unfair. As the article says completely changed the game and was the turning point in a GF. He didn’t have to change the call he had made it already; he chose to.
Haven’t ever heard him apologise though. Now we get the poor me article etc etc

Absolutely his family should not be abused…but neither should Stuart’s; neither should have Seibold’s in Brisbane etc… when you’re a public figure this all comes with the territory, same as with politicians. I can do without the poor me article and violin.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by gangrenous »

Old School Green wrote:No way should he have changed the call after signalling it. Just unfair.
If he’s certain he’s made a mistake, probably better to stop the call and reset the play.
Old School Green wrote: Absolutely his family should not be abused…but neither should Stuart’s; neither should have Seibold’s in Brisbane etc… when you’re a public figure this all comes with the territory, same as with politicians. I can do without the poor me article and violin.
That’s a **** take. It doesn’t have to come with the territory. It’s unacceptable and it should be called that instead of going in for victim blaming.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Botman »

I dont have any opinions. I watched the game live from the ground, i've since watched the highlights back twice and each time and i wont be doing it again. So i honestly couldnt tell you if they ultimately got the call right, i was at the other end of the ground and the highlights didnt show anything that could argue one way or the other... and at some point right or wrong doesnt matter. They won. We lost.
And if the entire world could agree to never talk or post about this game and anything to do with it again i'd be enternally thankful
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

I've got no sympathy for the guy, not one ounce at all. He's not been a good referee and well past it.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Finchy »

It's such a "Raiders way" to lose a grand final. It's not even totally the referee's fault. They played a part, but just about everything went against us.

The charge down hitting the trainer. 1 in a million shot, never happens, and it not only cost us a try, the opposition got the ball from it due to a ridiculous rule! Their trainer saved a try, and they got rewarded for it. Tapine turning his back on the goal line. The short ball to Papalii (who was covered) when we had a 6 on 2 overlap out wide. We got a sin bin out of it but couldn't score. Leilua hogging the ball when Rapana could have gone over untouched. The 6 again call reversal. The piss weak defence to then let them run the length of the field to score.

The stage was set for our first GF win in 25 years, a sea of green in the crowd, everyone behind us, and we blew it. I doubt we'll get another shot. I spent a quarter of a century waiting for that moment and will likely never see it again. Just such a typical Raiders way to lose a GF.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Raider Azz »

Finchy wrote:It's such a "Raiders way" to lose a grand final. It's not even totally the referee's fault. They played a part, but just about everything went against us.

The charge down hitting the trainer. 1 in a million shot, never happens, and it not only cost us a try, the opposition got the ball from it due to a ridiculous rule! Their trainer saved a try, and they got rewarded for it. Tapine turning his back on the goal line. The short ball to Papalii (who was covered) when we had a 6 on 2 overlap out wide. We got a sin bin out of it but couldn't score. Leilua hogging the ball when Rapana could have gone over untouched. The 6 again call reversal. The piss weak defence to then let them run the length of the field to score.

The stage was set for our first GF win in 25 years, a sea of green in the crowd, everyone behind us, and we blew it. I doubt we'll get another shot. I spent a quarter of a century waiting for that moment and will likely never see it again. Just such a typical Raiders way to lose a GF.
You dredged up some real repressed memories of mine finchy. This was very difficult to read

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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Old School Green »

gangrenous wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:21 pm
Old School Green wrote:No way should he have changed the call after signalling it. Just unfair.
If he’s certain he’s made a mistake, probably better to stop the call and reset the play.
Old School Green wrote: Absolutely his family should not be abused…but neither should Stuart’s; neither should have Seibold’s in Brisbane etc… when you’re a public figure this all comes with the territory, same as with politicians. I can do without the poor me article and violin.
That’s a **** take. It doesn’t have to come with the territory. It’s unacceptable and it should be called that instead of going in for victim blaming.
It’s a realist take. The way the world works. Whether it should or not is a separate argument.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by BJ »

Cummins is kidding himself and the public, if he’s ‘sure’ he ultimately made the correct call on the 6 again play. There’s no clear evidence to confirm it was definitely the correct call or the wrong call (in fact from what I’ve seen, and the perfect position he was in as referee to make a live call, was that the ball traveled in the wrong direction if it only hit Simmonson on the neck and had likely touched Tedesco into Bailey).

The SMH reported that Annesley and his team determined Tedesco didn’t touch the ball by watching the replay immediately after the game via an IPad, and they’ve chosen not to revisit it using better technology to avoid further controversy.

The real issue however that can’t be disputed, is his call changed the way the play unfolded on that tackle, and under the rules he’s not allowed to change the call he made.

It’s like a cricket umpire calling a front foot no ball on a spinner, then changing his mind after the batsmen was caught slogging after hearing the call.

On a final note, I cringe every time I hear a commentator say “I’ve never seen a referee change his mind”. I know I have seen it, and it was the biggest game of the season and the biggest game of many Raiders players lives.

Cummins would obviously change what happened if he had his time again, I also think he’d take some time to explain the decision and let the Raiders compose themselves. Things happened far too quickly after that moment and some Raiders players remained in shock.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Botman »

Old School Green wrote: August 13, 2022, 6:03 pm
gangrenous wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:21 pm
Old School Green wrote:No way should he have changed the call after signalling it. Just unfair.
If he’s certain he’s made a mistake, probably better to stop the call and reset the play.
Old School Green wrote: Absolutely his family should not be abused…but neither should Stuart’s; neither should have Seibold’s in Brisbane etc… when you’re a public figure this all comes with the territory, same as with politicians. I can do without the poor me article and violin.
That’s a **** take. It doesn’t have to come with the territory. It’s unacceptable and it should be called that instead of going in for victim blaming.
It’s a realist take. The way the world works. Whether it should or not is a separate argument.
Well no, that's not quite right
Because if all we ever say is "it is what is is... doesnt matter if that's what it should be" then it never **** changes does it?

That's not remotely good enough. We have to actually call that behaviour out, and make it clear that is not acceptable under any circumstances, and if enough people do the right thing, there will be a time where that's no longer the way the world works. Which is what we should be trying to get to, since we'd agree it should not be how it works.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by BJ »

Yep, it’s ridiculous and unacceptable that family members of players, coaches or referees should ever cop abuse related to any sort of football issue.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Old School Green »

Botman wrote: August 13, 2022, 7:19 pm
Old School Green wrote: August 13, 2022, 6:03 pm
gangrenous wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:21 pm
Old School Green wrote:No way should he have changed the call after signalling it. Just unfair.
If he’s certain he’s made a mistake, probably better to stop the call and reset the play.
Old School Green wrote: Absolutely his family should not be abused…but neither should Stuart’s; neither should have Seibold’s in Brisbane etc… when you’re a public figure this all comes with the territory, same as with politicians. I can do without the poor me article and violin.
That’s a **** take. It doesn’t have to come with the territory. It’s unacceptable and it should be called that instead of going in for victim blaming.
It’s a realist take. The way the world works. Whether it should or not is a separate argument.
Well no, that's not quite right
Because if all we ever say is "it is what is is... doesnt matter if that's what it should be" then it never **** changes does it?

That's not remotely good enough. We have to actually call that behaviour out, and make it clear that is not acceptable under any circumstances, and if enough people do the right thing, there will be a time where that's no longer the way the world works. Which is what we should be trying to get to, since we'd agree it should not be how it works.
Very admirable! All waterfalls start with a drop of water etc…. But just unrealistic. Public figures get scrutiny and in the digital age with 24/7 news cycles, online muppets thrive.

Cummins should be accountable but his family shouldn’t be dragged into it; innocent collateral damage. So it is what it is and no number of GH posts to the contrary is going to change it whether you feel it’s right or wrong.

Additionally, I feel the NRL contributes to a lot of it by being overly defensive, using sneaky non committal language and never offering genuine apologies. They just deflect or play the ‘referees are human too’ card. (Annesly is a former politician ****) You can see how the unhinged get triggered. Apologies; genuine language and actions which take responsibility for mistakes would be quite disarming and de escalating imo…
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Botman »

Frankly... that's Bull.
If you think what is happening to that guys family is not acceptable. That's it. End of story. Its frankly gutless for people like you to wash their hands to say "it is what it is" and pretend nothing can be done about it

No. You can stand up against this nonsense. You can make it know to people in your life that his behaviour is unacceptable. And everyone who feels it is unacceptable has a duty to speak up and stand up. To do anything less is cowardly. Live your values. If you think this is acceptable, thats on you, say nothing and move on. If you think that sort of behaviour is unacceptable, then set that standard, and live up to it, and hold those around you accountable to it.

And when enough people stand up and hold people accountable for their actions, culture shifts. It no longer is what it is. That's how progress happens. Nothing unrealistic about that.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

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Like I said, admirable…but I’ll bet my house it still continues to happen no matter how much you, me or anyone ‘stand up and holds people accountable’. It’s the world we live in. By all means advocate for change…but don’t be too disappointed when it doesn’t happen. 🤷‍♂️
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

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Take this to the logical extreme
Domestic violence occurs, so should i not raise my son to be a non violent respectful young man because who cares, one person cant make a difference?
Of **** course not. The only way to shift culture is for every single person to play their part and not shirk their responsibility. That's the only way it works because as you rightly point out, posts on the GH wont a change a damn thing. Holding your peers accountable to respectful and decent behaviour and instilling the next generation with the lessons learnt from the previous and giving them courage and confidence to carry on that and hold their peers accountable and teaching their children to be better, that's how **** gets better

It is what it is? **** me, if that's all humanity ever said, we'd still be cavemen.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Botman »

Old School Green wrote: August 13, 2022, 9:35 pm Like I said, admirable…but I’ll bet my house it still continues to happen no matter how much you, me or anyone ‘stand up and holds people accountable’. It’s the world we live in. By all means advocate for change…but don’t be too disappointed when it doesn’t happen. 🤷‍♂️
Nothing admirable about it. Just your responsibility as a decent human being. You can either shirk it, or not. You've clearly made your call.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Old School Green »

Botman wrote: August 13, 2022, 9:36 pm
Old School Green wrote: August 13, 2022, 9:35 pm Like I said, admirable…but I’ll bet my house it still continues to happen no matter how much you, me or anyone ‘stand up and holds people accountable’. It’s the world we live in. By all means advocate for change…but don’t be too disappointed when it doesn’t happen. 🤷‍♂️
Nothing admirable about it. Just your responsibility as a decent human being. You can either shirk it, or not. You've clearly made your call.
I don’t agree with it I’ve said that. I don’t do it. I don’t encourage it. There’s my action. My self responsibility.
But people out there do though. Fact. And objectively, as I also said, the nrl don’t do themselves any favours not accepting responsibility or apologising when there are peanuts out there with no control.

Think we’ve done this one to death now Bot.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Azza »

Finchy wrote:It's such a "Raiders way" to lose a grand final. It's not even totally the referee's fault. They played a part, but just about everything went against us.

The charge down hitting the trainer. 1 in a million shot, never happens, and it not only cost us a try, the opposition got the ball from it due to a ridiculous rule! Their trainer saved a try, and they got rewarded for it. Tapine turning his back on the goal line. The short ball to Papalii (who was covered) when we had a 6 on 2 overlap out wide. We got a sin bin out of it but couldn't score. Leilua hogging the ball when Rapana could have gone over untouched. The 6 again call reversal. The piss weak defence to then let them run the length of the field to score.

The stage was set for our first GF win in 25 years, a sea of green in the crowd, everyone behind us, and we blew it. I doubt we'll get another shot. I spent a quarter of a century waiting for that moment and will likely never see it again. Just such a typical Raiders way to lose a GF.
Most depressing post I've read in awhile

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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Azza wrote: August 13, 2022, 10:11 pm
Finchy wrote:It's such a "Raiders way" to lose a grand final. It's not even totally the referee's fault. They played a part, but just about everything went against us.

The charge down hitting the trainer. 1 in a million shot, never happens, and it not only cost us a try, the opposition got the ball from it due to a ridiculous rule! Their trainer saved a try, and they got rewarded for it. Tapine turning his back on the goal line. The short ball to Papalii (who was covered) when we had a 6 on 2 overlap out wide. We got a sin bin out of it but couldn't score. Leilua hogging the ball when Rapana could have gone over untouched. The 6 again call reversal. The piss weak defence to then let them run the length of the field to score.

The stage was set for our first GF win in 25 years, a sea of green in the crowd, everyone behind us, and we blew it. I doubt we'll get another shot. I spent a quarter of a century waiting for that moment and will likely never see it again. Just such a typical Raiders way to lose a GF.
Most depressing post I've read in awhile

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Yeah thanks Finch :(
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by GreenMachine »

Botman wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:22 pm I dont have any opinions. I watched the game live from the ground, i've since watched the highlights back twice and each time and i wont be doing it again. So i honestly couldnt tell you if they ultimately got the call right, i was at the other end of the ground and the highlights didnt show anything that could argue one way or the other... and at some point right or wrong doesnt matter. They won. We lost.
And if the entire world could agree to never talk or post about this game and anything to do with it again i'd be enternally thankful
Agreeing with you too much lately...time to see a doctor.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Old School Green »

Back here to double down on how bad this situation was. After the games tonight the Fan was on and they showed it and spoke with Jack too.

Ironically James Tamou said it best and then got sent off earlier for telling Cummins that he is indeed incompetent.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Pete Cash »

In hindsight he should have stopped the game and at worst calmly explained what happened to hodgson and allowed the Raiders to reset the line. It was a massive blunder but he doesn't deserve hate.

The same thing happened in f1 last year with the equivalent of a ref getting the rules wrong on a safety car restart that basically handed the race and championship to one of the competitors. He was getting death threats.

Under the heat of competition ref's make mistakes too. Cummins absolutely made an error at a terrible time and the confusion led to the Roosters winning try. He compounded the issue by letting the game continue

But yeah just a game but man it hurts to think about it..
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by cat »

Yes it is " just a game" BUT a Grand Final win brings a lot of coin into the club and this is the dream of so many players and fans
I dont care about the betting money but success on the field does pretty much guarantee the survival of clubs
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by The Nickman »

cat wrote: August 22, 2022, 3:16 pm Yes it is " just a game" BUT a Grand Final win brings a lot of coin into the club and this is the dream of so many players and fans
I dont care about the betting money but success on the field does pretty much guarantee the survival of clubs
God you're the absolute worst
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I am probably in the minority but I’ve always felt that saying we were “robbed” because of 6-again is a bit disingenuous.

Sure, a rubbish call and particularly so on such a big stage but I’m not sure where the assumption we were destined to score from the next set comes from. We had more than enough chances to win the GF but our attack just wasn’t quite good enough (sounds familiar) even against a reduced man Roosters.
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Re: Veteran referee spills on 2019 NRL grand final blunder

Post by The Nickman »

Mickey_Raider wrote: August 22, 2022, 4:17 pm I am probably in the minority but I’ve always felt that saying we were “robbed” because of 6-again is a bit disingenuous.

Sure, a rubbish call and particularly so on such a big stage but I’m not sure where the assumption we were destined to score from the next set comes from. We had more than enough chances to win the GF but our attack just wasn’t quite good enough (sounds familiar) even against a reduced man Roosters.
I'm 100% with you on this.

And what makes this whole thing even more disgusting is that if the shoe was on the other foot, posters like cat would be telling roosters fans to get over it.
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