2022 Rich list

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greeneyed
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2022 Rich list

Post by greeneyed »

First 50 out today in The Daily Telegraph. The Raiders have six players on it…

77 Elliott Whitehead $590,000
70 Nick Cotric $600,000

Four to come tomorrow.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 2e4eb8fe25

A staggering nine players who starred in Queensland’s Origin series boilover of the Blues this season were omissions from the NRL’s Rich 100 list.

They include newly minted Wally Lewis Medallist Pat Carrigan, his Broncos teammate Selwyn Cobbo, Melbourne flyer Xavier Coates and North Queensland’s awesome foursome of Reuben Cotter, Jeremiah Nanai, Tom Dearden and Tom Gilbert.

Roosters and Queensland hardman Lindsay Collins missed the cut, while Maroons hooker Harry Grant has rocketed to superstar ­status at Melbourne on a deal still less than $500,000 this season.

Read more: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... ea8c24a771

They reckon Nicho Hynes is only on $600,000.
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Re: 2022 Rich list

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Wow, Cotric too expensive for what he produces. Not worth that on the open market. Should run hard like Hoppa last weekend and earn some of that. Hope Dogs chipping in at least $200,000. Whitehead should retire and is not even worth $290,000 on the open market.

We really pay overs for our players.
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Post by Mickey_Raider »

590 for Whitehead is appalling.

I wonder who negotiated that deal?

My guess ordinarily would be DFJ but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is another one of those things that isn’t his department.
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Post by Rick »

Mickey_Raider wrote:590 for Whitehead is appalling.

I wonder who negotiated that deal?

My guess ordinarily would be DFJ but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is another one of those things that isn’t his department.
Some serious questions need to be asked about this contract and what has been put in place to ensure it does not happen again.

As said above I hope we are not paying all that for Cotric


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Post by Finchy »

I thought we didn't re-sign Cotric originally because we baulked at paying $500,000 for a winger, and he went to the dogs on $650,000. Now we get him back and we're willing to fork out $100,000 a year more than when we let him go? As mentioned, the dogs better be tipping in at least $200,000 a year for that contract.

I also find it incredible how underpaid some star players are. I know we need to pay them a Canberra tax to get them here, but if Harry Grant is on less than $500,000, surely we could lure him here on Hodgson's $900,000? Or put in a competitive offer to Nicho Hynes?
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Post by greeneyed »

Harry Grant’s contract goes up. But we would have already upgraded him.
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Post by Raider Azz »

Hong Kong Raider wrote:Wow, Cotric too expensive for what he produces. Not worth that on the open market. Should run hard like Hoppa last weekend and earn some of that. Hope Dogs chipping in at least $200,000. Whitehead should retire and is not even worth $290,000 on the open market.

We really pay overs for our players.
He was worth that on the open market though lmao, it is what he was literally offered by the dogs two years ago.

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Post by gangrenous »

Two years is a long time. It was considered overs at the time. It’s definitely overs on what’s delivered since.
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Post by Raider47 »

That's depressing.

Cotric who is no better than any average NRL winger and Whitehead who is no better than anyone.
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Post by Finchy »

I think a test of a player's value in first grade is if they are too good for reserve grade. If they go back to reserve grade and still suck, they're no good. I image if Whitehead went back to reserves he wouldn't dominate at that level, he'd be just as gassed and ineffective as he is now. Someone like Tapine would destroy that level like Sonny Bill.
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Post by Raider Azz »

gangrenous wrote:Two years is a long time. It was considered overs at the time. It’s definitely overs on what’s delivered since.
Two years is a long time is irrelevant. That's when he signed the contract with the dogs. It's how contracts work. Consider overs by who? Raiders fans? It certainly wasn't the dogs

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Last edited by Raider Azz on August 13, 2022, 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Raider Azz »

Finchy wrote:I think a test of a player's value in first grade is if they are too good for reserve grade. If they go back to reserve grade and still suck, they're no good. I image if Whitehead went back to reserves he wouldn't dominate at that level, he'd be just as gassed and ineffective as he is now. Someone like Tapine would destroy that level like Sonny Bill.
You mean like CHN who was by all accounts stinking it up in reserve grade before getting a spot in firsts due to injuries? So what would you consider his value to the team?

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2022 Rich list

Post by gangrenous »

Raider Azz wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Two years is a long time. It was considered overs at the time. It’s definitely overs on what’s delivered since.
Two years is a long time is irrelevant. That's when he signed the contract with the dogs. It's how contracts work

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It’s perfectly relevant, we’re talking about his value now. Settle down with your condescension.
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Re: 2022 Rich list

Post by Raider Azz »

Lmao settle down with your defensiveness. I'm just pointing out the holes in your outrage. You don't need to bend over backwards to criticise the club, there's plenty of legitimate reasons to critisize them. Like whitehead or Crokers contracts

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Post by Botman »

Finchy wrote: August 13, 2022, 11:40 am I thought we didn't re-sign Cotric originally because we baulked at paying $500,000 for a winger, and he went to the dogs on $650,000. Now we get him back and we're willing to fork out $100,000 a year more than when we let him go? As mentioned, the dogs better be tipping in at least $200,000 a year for that contract.

I also find it incredible how underpaid some star players are. I know we need to pay them a Canberra tax to get them here, but if Harry Grant is on less than $500,000, surely we could lure him here on Hodgson's $900,000? Or put in a competitive offer to Nicho Hynes?
What he's being paid and what we are paying him vs what the dogs are pay him are different

This is total earnings. it was well reported that the bulldogs were paying a good chuck of frieght on that. So assuming this is 100% accurate (it's probably not but rather a pretty good estimation), Cotric is getting 600k and what of that we pay right now vs the bulldogs is unknown
But i would guess it's something like a 400k vs 200k split, so he might be getting paid 600k but as far as we're concerned, he's on much less than that for this year and i believe next (from memory we take the deal on in its entirity from 2024 onwards)
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Post by Finchy »

Raider Azz wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:16 pm
Finchy wrote:I think a test of a player's value in first grade is if they are too good for reserve grade. If they go back to reserve grade and still suck, they're no good. I image if Whitehead went back to reserves he wouldn't dominate at that level, he'd be just as gassed and ineffective as he is now. Someone like Tapine would destroy that level like Sonny Bill.
You mean like CHN who was by all accounts stinking it up in reserve grade before getting a spot in firsts due to injuries? So what would you consider his value to the team?

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I assume he only got back into firsts due to injury issues. It certainly wasn't based on form. Someone with his talent should be able to dominate reserve grade, but he clearly has an attitude problem.

If our first grade team didn't suck, and if we didn't have injuries, and we could actually score points without him, then I think he should have stayed in reserve grade until he demanded first grade selection. But for a raft of reasons that didn't eventuate.
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Post by Rick »

Raider Azz wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Two years is a long time. It was considered overs at the time. It’s definitely overs on what’s delivered since.
Two years is a long time is irrelevant. That's when he signed the contract with the dogs. It's how contracts work. Consider overs by who? Raiders fans? It certainly wasn't the dogs

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The dogs were also a very different side when they paid that much for him.


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Post by Seiffert82 »

Between the Hodgson, Croker and Whitehead contracts, the depth of our squad has been sorely tested this season.

Must be close to $2m tied up in dud deals.

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Post by Rick »

Seiffert82 wrote:Between the Hodgson, Croker and Whitehead contracts, the depth of our squad has been sorely tested this season.

Must be close to $2m tied up in dud deals.

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Given there have been no signings I am worried where our Hodgo coin has gone?


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Post by gangrenous »

Raider Azz wrote:Lmao settle down with your defensiveness. I'm just pointing out the holes in your outrage. You don't need to bend over backwards to criticise the club, there's plenty of legitimate reasons to critisize them. Like whitehead or Crokers contracts

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There’s no hole. There’s no outrage.

There’s just you being a jackass despite being wrong.
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Post by Finchy »

Rick wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:56 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:Between the Hodgson, Croker and Whitehead contracts, the depth of our squad has been sorely tested this season.

Must be close to $2m tied up in dud deals.

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Given there have been no signings I am worried where our Hodgo coin has gone?


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We can't even bank it and wait for a decent player to become available. We have to spend it. So we'll upgrade everyone undeservedly, and have no coin to buy decent replacements.
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Post by greeneyed »

Raider Azz wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:14 pm
gangrenous wrote:Two years is a long time. It was considered overs at the time. It’s definitely overs on what’s delivered since.
Two years is a long time is irrelevant. That's when he signed the contract with the dogs. It's how contracts work. Consider overs by who? Raiders fans? It certainly wasn't the dogs

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It was considered overs by the Raiders themselves as they let Cotric go to the Bulldogs. And clearly they decided they were paying too much, just a year later, as they released him, presumably carrying a good part of the contract.
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Post by Mickey_Raider »

Finchy wrote: August 13, 2022, 5:05 pm
Rick wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:56 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:Between the Hodgson, Croker and Whitehead contracts, the depth of our squad has been sorely tested this season.

Must be close to $2m tied up in dud deals.

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Given there have been no signings I am worried where our Hodgo coin has gone?


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We can't even bank it and wait for a decent player to become available. We have to spend it. So we'll upgrade everyone undeservedly, and have no coin to buy decent replacements.
Our cap management is a disgrace.

To make the mistake on Croker is shocking, but then to double down and go all in on Whitehead is unforgivable.

Can someone confirm who is responsible for that department?
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Post by Finchy »

greeneyed wrote: August 13, 2022, 5:14 pm
Raider Azz wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:14 pm
gangrenous wrote:Two years is a long time. It was considered overs at the time. It’s definitely overs on what’s delivered since.
Two years is a long time is irrelevant. That's when he signed the contract with the dogs. It's how contracts work. Consider overs by who? Raiders fans? It certainly wasn't the dogs

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It was considered overs by the Raiders themselves as they let Cotric go to the Bulldogs. And clearly they decided they were paying too much, just a year later, as they released him, presumably carrying a good part of the contract.
Yeah I never really agreed with the whole "your market value is whatever someone is willing to pay you." David Fifita is getting paid $1.2 millions by the Titans. Is he worth it? No. Would any other club pay that much for him? Doubtful. If they do they're insane.

Some bad clubs pay overs and well above a player's true market value to get them. $650K for Cotric was definitely overs, and the dogs realised that only 1 season into the contract, as you pointed out.
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Post by Roger Kenworthy »

greeneyed wrote: August 13, 2022, 5:14 pm
Raider Azz wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:14 pm
gangrenous wrote:Two years is a long time. It was considered overs at the time. It’s definitely overs on what’s delivered since.
Two years is a long time is irrelevant. That's when he signed the contract with the dogs. It's how contracts work. Consider overs by who? Raiders fans? It certainly wasn't the dogs

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It was considered overs by the Raiders themselves as they let Cotric go to the Bulldogs. And clearly they decided they were paying too much, just a year later, as they released him, presumably carrying a good part of the contract.
Our management of the Cotric scenario is a shocker. We bail one of our competitors out of a terrible contract and sit back and watch as they use that space to squeeze in Burton and Mahoney, two players who could have made a major improvement to our roster.

I believe initial reports implied they would chip in roughly 200k/per the first 2 seasons. We're then on the books for 600k the final season. Terrible deal, his output has matched a 300k deal at best this season.
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Post by Finchy »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: August 13, 2022, 5:57 pm
greeneyed wrote: August 13, 2022, 5:14 pm
Raider Azz wrote: August 13, 2022, 4:14 pm
gangrenous wrote:Two years is a long time. It was considered overs at the time. It’s definitely overs on what’s delivered since.
Two years is a long time is irrelevant. That's when he signed the contract with the dogs. It's how contracts work. Consider overs by who? Raiders fans? It certainly wasn't the dogs

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It was considered overs by the Raiders themselves as they let Cotric go to the Bulldogs. And clearly they decided they were paying too much, just a year later, as they released him, presumably carrying a good part of the contract.
Our management of the Cotric scenario is a shocker. We bail one of our competitors out of a terrible contract and sit back and watch as they use that space to squeeze in Burton and Mahoney, two players who could have made a major improvement to our roster.

Form those figures we also must have upgraded Cotric to entice him to return. After the 2021 he had that's just laughable if it happened.
They also got the Foxx and Kikau, and are still on a buying spree.
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Post by Raider Azz »

Come on ed, you really think Burton or Mahoney were ever gonna be a shot of coming here? Both had their choice of multiple Sydney clubs. That's the type of player we have no shot of signing.

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Post by Billy Walker »

Look I’m good with all - if you want individual Croker records you got to fork out big cash! Cotric is a local lad and it’s good symmetry to have him back and Whitehead is a great lad.

Sure none of the three provide anything of value but it just makes sense!
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Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Raider Azz wrote: August 13, 2022, 6:17 pm Come on ed, you really think Burton or Mahoney were ever gonna be a shot of coming here? Both had their choice of multiple Sydney clubs. That's the type of player we have no shot of signing.

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Still doesn't mean we should be giving our competitors a leg up out of bad deals. I can't see any reason Mahoney wouldn't consider coming here if we could top him up over the Sydney $$.
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Post by LastRaider »

The concerning things is we arn’t signing anyone of relevance for next year. Can’t see us making the top 8 next year


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Post by Botman »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: August 13, 2022, 6:55 pm
Raider Azz wrote: August 13, 2022, 6:17 pm Come on ed, you really think Burton or Mahoney were ever gonna be a shot of coming here? Both had their choice of multiple Sydney clubs. That's the type of player we have no shot of signing.

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Still doesn't mean we should be giving our competitors a leg up out of bad deals. I can't see any reason Mahoney wouldn't consider coming here if we could top him up over the Sydney $$.
I dont think the club bailed a competitor out of bad deal, more they took what they viewed as a good deal.
We can quibble about whether that is in fact a good deal but they didnt do this as any favour to the dogs, they'd have kept Cotric had he been willing to stay for the money he's on our cap for right now... again, you can agree or disagree with their player assesssment but we took Cotric back because we thought it was a good deal, not to help the dogs out.
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Post by Raider Azz »

LastRaider wrote:The concerning things is we arn’t signing anyone of relevance for next year. Can’t see us making the top 8 next year


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Yeah, that is a real worry. We are losing a lot of players and gaining none. We better hope these young guys turn out to be superstars.

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Post by BJ »

It’s a sad state of affairs when if given the forced option, I’d take David Fifita at $1 million over Moses Mbye at $900k.

That’s the greatest Moses miracle in 2000 years.

Lodge and Pengai jr at $900k, no wonder Broncos were struggling when they had these two on their books.
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Post by Roy Rover »

greeneyed wrote:Harry Grant’s contract goes up. But we would have already upgraded him.
I’m sure it’s going up to around the one million mark in the the next year or so.
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Post by Roy Rover »

The next four on the list will be by my reckoning

Tapine 650k
Papalii 750k
Wighton 850k
Hodgson 900k
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