2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gerg »

Finchy wrote:
luffraider wrote: July 25, 2022, 3:38 pm
greeneyed wrote:So Graham Annesley has admitted that the bunker decision on an obstruction was wrong.

Bizarrely, he claims that a captain's challenge could be made, despite the fact that the referee had not made any decision other than to stop play (but had not called full time). The challenge made was for an obstruction, the referee actually uses those words in referring it, but no call of an obstruction had been made.

I guess what Annesley is saying that the Cowboys could have challenged the blowing of the whistle to stop play. But that's not what the Cowboys did, and the referee referred a challenge to a call he had not made.
Where was our captains challenge against dragons (Ben hunt not square) then?
Whitehead was clearly screaming for one.

NRL making up the rules as they go along
Can’t challenge not square at marker, and we’d burnt our challenge.
I can't remember which game it was but I definitely saw a team challenge a marker not being square this weekend and won.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

gergreg wrote: July 25, 2022, 5:15 pm
Finchy wrote:
luffraider wrote: July 25, 2022, 3:38 pm
greeneyed wrote:So Graham Annesley has admitted that the bunker decision on an obstruction was wrong.

Bizarrely, he claims that a captain's challenge could be made, despite the fact that the referee had not made any decision other than to stop play (but had not called full time). The challenge made was for an obstruction, the referee actually uses those words in referring it, but no call of an obstruction had been made.

I guess what Annesley is saying that the Cowboys could have challenged the blowing of the whistle to stop play. But that's not what the Cowboys did, and the referee referred a challenge to a call he had not made.
Where was our captains challenge against dragons (Ben hunt not square) then?
Whitehead was clearly screaming for one.

NRL making up the rules as they go along
Can’t challenge not square at marker, and we’d burnt our challenge.
I can't remember which game it was but I definitely saw a team challenge a marker not being square this weekend and won.
I'm pretty sure you need to have a challenge up your sleeve to be able to use it though...
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Finchy »

gergreg wrote: July 25, 2022, 5:15 pm
Finchy wrote:
luffraider wrote: July 25, 2022, 3:38 pm
greeneyed wrote:So Graham Annesley has admitted that the bunker decision on an obstruction was wrong.

Bizarrely, he claims that a captain's challenge could be made, despite the fact that the referee had not made any decision other than to stop play (but had not called full time). The challenge made was for an obstruction, the referee actually uses those words in referring it, but no call of an obstruction had been made.

I guess what Annesley is saying that the Cowboys could have challenged the blowing of the whistle to stop play. But that's not what the Cowboys did, and the referee referred a challenge to a call he had not made.
Where was our captains challenge against dragons (Ben hunt not square) then?
Whitehead was clearly screaming for one.

NRL making up the rules as they go along
Can’t challenge not square at marker, and we’d burnt our challenge.
I can't remember which game it was but I definitely saw a team challenge a marker not being square this weekend and won.
Yeah it happened. But shouldn't have. They are clowns that don't remember their own rules.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gerg »

The Nickman wrote:
gergreg wrote: July 25, 2022, 5:15 pm
Finchy wrote:
luffraider wrote: July 25, 2022, 3:38 pm
greeneyed wrote:So Graham Annesley has admitted that the bunker decision on an obstruction was wrong.

Bizarrely, he claims that a captain's challenge could be made, despite the fact that the referee had not made any decision other than to stop play (but had not called full time). The challenge made was for an obstruction, the referee actually uses those words in referring it, but no call of an obstruction had been made.

I guess what Annesley is saying that the Cowboys could have challenged the blowing of the whistle to stop play. But that's not what the Cowboys did, and the referee referred a challenge to a call he had not made.
Where was our captains challenge against dragons (Ben hunt not square) then?
Whitehead was clearly screaming for one.

NRL making up the rules as they go along
Can’t challenge not square at marker, and we’d burnt our challenge.
I can't remember which game it was but I definitely saw a team challenge a marker not being square this weekend and won.
I'm pretty sure you need to have a challenge up your sleeve to be able to use it though...
That goes without saying, but thanks for saying it.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

The Nickman wrote:
gergreg wrote: July 25, 2022, 5:15 pm
Finchy wrote:
luffraider wrote: July 25, 2022, 3:38 pm
greeneyed wrote:So Graham Annesley has admitted that the bunker decision on an obstruction was wrong.

Bizarrely, he claims that a captain's challenge could be made, despite the fact that the referee had not made any decision other than to stop play (but had not called full time). The challenge made was for an obstruction, the referee actually uses those words in referring it, but no call of an obstruction had been made.

I guess what Annesley is saying that the Cowboys could have challenged the blowing of the whistle to stop play. But that's not what the Cowboys did, and the referee referred a challenge to a call he had not made.
Where was our captains challenge against dragons (Ben hunt not square) then?
Whitehead was clearly screaming for one.

NRL making up the rules as they go along
Can’t challenge not square at marker, and we’d burnt our challenge.
I can't remember which game it was but I definitely saw a team challenge a marker not being square this weekend and won.
I'm pretty sure you need to have a challenge up your sleeve to be able to use it though...
Do you though? It seems the NRL are okay to ignore other rules. Image
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

The explanation from Graham Annesley today, that he was "comfortable" with the challenge proceeding was completely illogical. This was the explanation:

“So he blows the whistle to stop play, but that is not the end of the game. That first whistle is not the full-time whistle. That is a whistle to stop play.

“That becomes a stoppage and the challenge was mounted on the basis of the escort or obstruction the Cowboys had taken place in that particular play.

“Whilst it is an unusual situation if you take on board the reason for the captain’s challenge in the first instance and why it was introduced it was brought in to give teams the opportunity to have mistakes corrected at any time in the game from the kick-off until the full-time whistle.

“There are no boundaries on that other than it must be a stoppage initiated by the referee and it has to result in a structured restart.

“In this case there was a penalty given as a result of this incident, which is a structured restart. So the ball wasn’t just given back to the player to play the ball. You can’t do that because time has expired.

“We are comfortable that the captain’s challenge was allowable in those circumstances just as it would have been had the situation been reversed.

“If the officials had picked up the obstruction the Tigers would have been fully entitled to challenge the decision by the referee to award that penalty. It is the same situation but reversed.”

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 2b7069fefd

But that is a matter of convenience. Just as what the NRL did with six again in the 2019 Grand Final was an argument of convenience. The fact is, the Cowboys challenge was mounted against a call that was never made. The bit about a penalty being given making it a structured restart... it makes no sense whatsoever.

They just spin stuff to avoid as much accountability as they can.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

So they’ll let teams challenge all non-calls on the last play of the game now?
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Rick »

gangrenous wrote:So they’ll let teams challenge all non-calls on the last play of the game now?
Can we go back and challenge the Dragons game?


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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gerg »

How can you even challenge a non call? It doesn't make any sense at all and you just know they will royally **** it up even worse because of this precedent.

When Annesley first started in the role he used logic and admitted to errors. The past 18 months he's completely shifted to defending the indefensible and continuously making excuses for the referees getting it wrong. He has to go.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Finchy »

Rick wrote: July 25, 2022, 8:02 pm
gangrenous wrote:So they’ll let teams challenge all non-calls on the last play of the game now?
Can we go back and challenge the Dragons game?


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Yes.... if it was a challengeable offence and we actually had a challenge left. Neither was the case. So no.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

gangrenous wrote: July 25, 2022, 7:57 pm So they’ll let teams challenge all non-calls on the last play of the game now?
It is patently ridiculous.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

You can read the rules on the captain's challenge here (p22 onward): https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operatio ... s_2020.pdf

For a start it says that the captain must identify the element of the decision that they are challenging. If the decision being challenged is the whistle to stop play, then "illegal escort" can't be an element of it. The referee never made a call that included that element.

I think what Annesley was attempting to communicate on the "structured restart", is that the rules say the play must have stopped and it must hypothetically result in some form or structured restart (like a penalty). Not that it actually resulted in a penalty, that's not relevant.

But that is surely irrelevant if the challenge is for an element that didn't exist in the decision being challenged. If you accept that, you can now challenge every time on the last play for "something".
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

bonehead wrote:clumsy escort run, he changes pace twice, runs in an arc and is nowhere near the ball

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Hmmmm, can't say I'm on board here boney. That's an interesting take on a defending player angling towards the ball, as he's entitled to.

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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Go look at where he starts and finishes. Looked to me like he goes across the field moreso than at the ball.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gerg »

greeneyed wrote:You can read the rules on the captain's challenge here (p22 onward): https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operatio ... s_2020.pdf

For a start it says that the captain must identify the element of the decision that they are challenging. If the decision being challenged is the whistle to stop play, then "illegal escort" can't be an element of it. The referee never made a call that included that element.

I think what Annesley was attempting to communicate on the "structured restart", is that the rules say the play must have stopped and it must hypothetically result in some form or structured restart (like a penalty). Not that it actually resulted in a penalty, that's not relevant.

But that is surely irrelevant if the challenge is for an element that didn't exist in the decision being challenged. If you accept that, you can now challenge every time on the last play for "something".
How long before a team challenges a 'voluntary tackle' on the last play of a game? Wouldn't that be interesting?
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by yeh raiders »

gergreg wrote: July 25, 2022, 5:15 pm
Finchy wrote:
luffraider wrote: July 25, 2022, 3:38 pm
greeneyed wrote:So Graham Annesley has admitted that the bunker decision on an obstruction was wrong.

Bizarrely, he claims that a captain's challenge could be made, despite the fact that the referee had not made any decision other than to stop play (but had not called full time). The challenge made was for an obstruction, the referee actually uses those words in referring it, but no call of an obstruction had been made.

I guess what Annesley is saying that the Cowboys could have challenged the blowing of the whistle to stop play. But that's not what the Cowboys did, and the referee referred a challenge to a call he had not made.
Where was our captains challenge against dragons (Ben hunt not square) then?
Whitehead was clearly screaming for one.

NRL making up the rules as they go along
Can’t challenge not square at marker, and we’d burnt our challenge.
I can't remember which game it was but I definitely saw a team challenge a marker not being square this weekend and won.
Shock horror, it was Ben Hunt not square at marker. He made the tackle on 5th and the attacking team pleaded the ref to challenge it and the ref repeated a number of times that they could lodge a challenge, but could not overturn the decision based on their complaint of not Ben Hunt not being square….

Imagine my surprise when the bunker ruled that Ben Hunt was in fact offside, and awarded the attacking team a penalty. Soo unprofessional.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gerg »

yeh raiders wrote:
gergreg wrote: July 25, 2022, 5:15 pm
Finchy wrote:
luffraider wrote: July 25, 2022, 3:38 pm
greeneyed wrote:So Graham Annesley has admitted that the bunker decision on an obstruction was wrong.

Bizarrely, he claims that a captain's challenge could be made, despite the fact that the referee had not made any decision other than to stop play (but had not called full time). The challenge made was for an obstruction, the referee actually uses those words in referring it, but no call of an obstruction had been made.

I guess what Annesley is saying that the Cowboys could have challenged the blowing of the whistle to stop play. But that's not what the Cowboys did, and the referee referred a challenge to a call he had not made.
Where was our captains challenge against dragons (Ben hunt not square) then?
Whitehead was clearly screaming for one.

NRL making up the rules as they go along
Can’t challenge not square at marker, and we’d burnt our challenge.
I can't remember which game it was but I definitely saw a team challenge a marker not being square this weekend and won.
Shock horror, it was Ben Hunt not square at marker. He made the tackle on 5th and the attacking team pleaded the ref to challenge it and the ref repeated a number of times that they could lodge a challenge, but could not overturn the decision based on their complaint of not Ben Hunt not being square….

Imagine my surprise when the bunker ruled that Ben Hunt was in fact offside, and awarded the attacking team a penalty. Soo unprofessional.
I suspected it may have been but I wasn't 100%.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

gangrenous wrote:Go look at where he starts and finishes. Looked to me like he goes across the field moreso than at the ball.
It was a high kickoff that clearly goes a bit deeper than it was likely intended. I suspect almost all defenders in that area expect the ball to land somewhere between the 30 and 40 metre lines, which is where the attacking players can reach it. The ball ultimately lands 25 m out. Kepaoa started his run almost exactly between the 30 and 40 - clearly to have a run at the ball to defend that 10m zone. He was initially running infield towards the 30m line when the ball was kicked and is entitled to change his arc when it became clear to everyone that the ball was going even deeper.

Obviously some people, including the person that mattered, see that as changing a line to solely obstruct an attacking player, rather than get into position to defend the kick. I don't see anything in that footage that demonstrates Kapaoa's only intent is to just run Feldt off the ball.



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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

Seiffert82 wrote: July 26, 2022, 8:27 am
gangrenous wrote:Go look at where he starts and finishes. Looked to me like he goes across the field moreso than at the ball.
It was a high kickoff that clearly goes a bit deeper than it was likely intended. I suspect almost all defenders in that area expect the ball to land somewhere between the 30 and 40 metre lines, which is where the attacking players can reach it. The ball ultimately lands 25 m out. Kepaoa started his run almost exactly between the 30 and 40 - clearly to have a run at the ball to defend that 10m zone. He was initially running infield towards the 30m line when the ball was kicked and is entitled to change his arc when it became clear to everyone that the ball was going even deeper.

Obviously some people, including the person that mattered, see that as changing a line to solely obstruct an attacking player, rather than get into position to defend the kick. I don't see anything in that footage that demonstrates Kapaoa's only intent is to just run Feldt off the ball.



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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gerg »

Northern Raider wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: July 26, 2022, 8:27 am
gangrenous wrote:Go look at where he starts and finishes. Looked to me like he goes across the field moreso than at the ball.
It was a high kickoff that clearly goes a bit deeper than it was likely intended. I suspect almost all defenders in that area expect the ball to land somewhere between the 30 and 40 metre lines, which is where the attacking players can reach it. The ball ultimately lands 25 m out. Kepaoa started his run almost exactly between the 30 and 40 - clearly to have a run at the ball to defend that 10m zone. He was initially running infield towards the 30m line when the ball was kicked and is entitled to change his arc when it became clear to everyone that the ball was going even deeper.

Obviously some people, including the person that mattered, see that as changing a line to solely obstruct an attacking player, rather than get into position to defend the kick. I don't see anything in that footage that demonstrates Kapaoa's only intent is to just run Feldt off the ball.



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If players are expected to run a perfectly straight line front the moment to ball leaves to boot to the precise position the ball will land we will see a penalty on just about every kick.
Expect a typical NRL knee-jerk crackdown on escorts this weekend.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Seiffert82 wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Go look at where he starts and finishes. Looked to me like he goes across the field moreso than at the ball.
It was a high kickoff that clearly goes a bit deeper than it was likely intended. I suspect almost all defenders in that area expect the ball to land somewhere between the 30 and 40 metre lines, which is where the attacking players can reach it. The ball ultimately lands 25 m out. Kepaoa started his run almost exactly between the 30 and 40 - clearly to have a run at the ball to defend that 10m zone. He was initially running infield towards the 30m line when the ball was kicked and is entitled to change his arc when it became clear to everyone that the ball was going even deeper.

Obviously some people, including the person that mattered, see that as changing a line to solely obstruct an attacking player, rather than get into position to defend the kick. I don't see anything in that footage that demonstrates Kapaoa's only intent is to just run Feldt off the ball.



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I went back and had a look and you’re spot on. I retract my statement.

I thought he’d run a line straight across, but he does curl at the ball.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

One thing worth noting from NRL 360 tonight… the Cowboys player, Valentine Holmes, kicked off from over the halfway mark at the end. He ran over the halfway line to perform the short kick off. The bunker missed that as well. It should not have even gone to the obstruction play.

Putting aside the fact the challenge should never have been permitted. And the obstruction call was wrong.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Coastalraider »

greeneyed wrote: July 27, 2022, 12:45 am One thing worth noting from NRL 360 tonight… the Cowboys player, Valentine Holmes, kicked off from over the halfway mark at the end. He ran over the halfway line to perform the short kick off. The bunker missed that as well. It should not have even gone to the obstruction play.

Putting aside the fact the challenge should never have been permitted. And the obstruction call was wrong.
GE, I’ll think you’ll find everything was legal. Annesley looked at it, said everything was fine leading up to the escort.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Coastalraider wrote: July 27, 2022, 6:15 am
greeneyed wrote: July 27, 2022, 12:45 am One thing worth noting from NRL 360 tonight… the Cowboys player, Valentine Holmes, kicked off from over the halfway mark at the end. He ran over the halfway line to perform the short kick off. The bunker missed that as well. It should not have even gone to the obstruction play.

Putting aside the fact the challenge should never have been permitted. And the obstruction call was wrong.
GE, I’ll think you’ll find everything was legal. Annesley looked at it, said everything was fine leading up to the escort.
Otherwise known as the Hugh Grant defence.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gerg »


Roger Kenworthy wrote:
Coastalraider wrote: July 27, 2022, 6:15 am
greeneyed wrote: July 27, 2022, 12:45 am One thing worth noting from NRL 360 tonight… the Cowboys player, Valentine Holmes, kicked off from over the halfway mark at the end. He ran over the halfway line to perform the short kick off. The bunker missed that as well. It should not have even gone to the obstruction play.

Putting aside the fact the challenge should never have been permitted. And the obstruction call was wrong.
GE, I’ll think you’ll find everything was legal. Annesley looked at it, said everything was fine leading up to the escort.
Otherwise known as the Hugh Grant defence.
It looked like a PR stunt to avoid litigation. I previously stated that Annesley should be sacked over this but it looks like a directive from higher up.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by zim »

Finucane sprinting out of the line like that and making an uncontrolled tackle, with contact with the head, was always going to get the ban. Wonder if this is the point he actually learns.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

zim wrote: July 27, 2022, 9:46 am Finucane sprinting out of the line like that and making an uncontrolled tackle, with contact with the head, was always going to get the ban. Wonder if this is the point he actually learns.
Yup. I can't understand the argument that it was a head clash - so if someone flies out leading with the head and makes contact is that also a head clash? A head clash is when heads come together accidentally, with Finucanes ungainly tackle where he gave himself no opportunity to adjust he ramped the possibiltiy of a headclash towards the very likely. He was lucky not to get done for wreckless contact (if that's still a thing).
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Sid »

Nofoaluma to storms for the remainder of the season. Shouldn't he be helping Tigers not win the spoon this year?

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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by zim »

Wonder if we can grab Burton or Addo-Carr from the dogs. Tuilagi from the Tigers would be nice.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

Tino and Fifita from Titans would be handy.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

It just again highlights that 1 August is way too late as the transfer deadline. We’re six weeks out from the end of the season. It brings the integrity of the competition into question. It should be no later than the mid point of the season.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

greeneyed wrote: July 27, 2022, 11:37 am It just again highlights that 1 August is way too late as the transfer deadline. We’re six weeks out from the end of the season. It brings the integrity of the competition into question. It should be no later than the mid point of the season.
100%. They've tried it and it's not working. Go back to what it was before.
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

greeneyed wrote:One thing worth noting from NRL 360 tonight… the Cowboys player, Valentine Holmes, kicked off from over the halfway mark at the end. He ran over the halfway line to perform the short kick off. The bunker missed that as well. It should not have even gone to the obstruction play.

Putting aside the fact the challenge should never have been permitted. And the obstruction call was wrong.
I think Tamou tried to challenge that very thing on the field and was basically told to bugger off by the referee.

It was a complete shambles all round.

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Sid
Ricky Stuart
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by Sid »

Yeah August 1 is wayy too late.

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gerg
Laurie Daley
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Re: 2020 NRL Round 19: Teams and Game Day

Post by gerg »

Yep, hate the late transfer. It's ridiculous.
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