Ricky Stuart savages referee standard

[kona_dream]

While I am a massive believer in unconscious bias against players and teams. The issue on the weekend wasn’t this issue we were playing the Dragons not exactly the higher flyers of the comp.
It simply came down to a ref not having a feel for the game and not wanting to make a game changing call.

[Robert the Bruce]

I have BA.5 (maybe 4?) and things are a little hazy but wasn’t there an absolute howler in a Sharks game a few years back? Have memories of it happening up near our right wing try line??

It’s funny, yes 2019 we did everything right and these calls didn’t matter…until it did


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[greeneyed]

While I am a massive believer in unconscious bias against players and teams. The issue on the weekend wasn’t this issue we were playing the Dragons not exactly the higher flyers of the comp.
It simply came down to a ref not having a feel for the game and not wanting to make a game changing call.

Giving the home team more favourable calls is the most common form of unrecognised bias.

[Rickmando]

We wuz robbed.

Everyone needs to send a strongly worded email to the NRL - to let them know we are onto them! We know they are going out of their way to disadvantage us and we aren’t going to stand for it!!!

[BadnMean]

While I am a massive believer in unconscious bias against players and teams. The issue on the weekend wasn’t this issue we were playing the Dragons not exactly the higher flyers of the comp.
It simply came down to a ref not having a feel for the game and not wanting to make a game changing call.

It's not that the Dragons get more calls than us.

It's that when it comes to getting stiffed in a major 50/50 call with the game on the line (vs anyone), it's way easier to stiff the Raiders than it is to stiff the Roosters. It's not so much who the opponent is, but which way the ref flip flops when the crunch comes in that split second.

Over the course of a few years. Raiders get more than their fair share of the pineapples in those scenarios. Roosters or whoever get less than their share. Unconsciously, there is no hesitation in stiffing the Raiders, there are zero repercussions for it. But if that happens to a favoured team, there is a little prickling in the guts of the ref that says, "ooh better blow that, there's a penalty there." Because there will be repercussions if he doesn't.

[-PJ-]

Here’s the fact.

We are a horrible horrible footy team. The winning and losing of games is squarely on the players.

Mental morons.

But what happened in the last few plays on Sunday arv stung. As bad as we are every week is so so important. Poor refereeing is spread across the board. I’ve not seen it worse.

The tackle that Sam Verills was penalised for is just laughable.

[greeneyed]

Ricky Stuart savages referee standard in dramatic fallout to Raiders loss to Dragons

A fed-up Ricky Stuart has launched a scathing attack on the overall standard of NRL refereeing, declaring “the system is broken”.

“The system is broken,” Stuart said. “All the teams are fighting for survival. And here I have a referee that won’t blow his whistle on not one but two indiscretions in the one tackle. Right under the posts with the game on the line, and us fighting for semi-final survival.”

Read more: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... d72af62012

[Off]

I just Walkaway shaking my head at your coaching and your teams performances, it just blows my mind too Rock.

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[Mickey_Raider]

Give it a rest Ricky.

Focus on being better at coaching and, I dunno, maybe even creating a few structures and systems in attack? At present I see little evidence of that at all.

Whingeing about reffing when we are scrapping and losing or barely surviving against rubbish sides like the Dragons, Warriors and Knights is beyond the pale.

Be better.

[Off]

Carn Mickey, he's got 17 players in there hurting mate, they are all good blokes.

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[Raider47]

Yawn.

1) Blame Refs
2) Blame Luck
3) Blame inconsistent spine

Rinse and repeat.

[Off]

Blame fans.

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[Billy Walker]

The system is against us - it’s not our fault!!

[Old School Green]

I support him speaking the truth. Irrespective of whether or not we are playing well or not, the ref wet the bed and didn’t follow the rules and has been called out by his boss too.

Back to NSW cup Peter Gough see you bye

[benda]

I agree that the call at the end was not right. Questionable if Hunt was offside.. but nonetheless... it was unfair. But nothing we can do to control this

The bigger problem (which we can control) is our poor attack.

The later needs to be our focus.. the former is not gonna matter for how we perform this season.

[greeneyed]

I support him speaking the truth. Irrespective of whether or not we are playing well or not, the ref wet the bed and didn’t follow the rules and has been called out by his boss too.

Back to NSW cup Peter Gough see you bye

Selected as a touch judge this week, in a smaller than usual round.

[TongueFTW]

I don’t think is helpful for the club to be ref faulting. The club needs to take the mantra that they need to focus on things they can control.

In saying that, I can’t help but laugh at some of the calls we have copped over the last few years. From the 6 again in the GF, to the touch judge’s flag at Shark Park, to the most forward pass I have ever seen let go against the Warriors last year, to the Lodge lie down and Hunt triple indiscretion this year. It’s not like there is a conscious effort, but I am hoping the luck turns and we get a few more our way.

[BadnMean]

I don’t think is helpful for the club to be ref faulting. The club needs to take the mantra that they need to focus on things they can control.

In general, I agree. Both for the team mentality you mention and the general poison to the game at all levels that ref bashing is.

Occasionally as a coach play to highlight an issue the opposition gets away with/a hypocrisy going on coming into finals etc then yeah, maybe room for it. Or if he wants to make it part if a combined, proper approach to the NRL from "minor" team coaches about systemic bias then absolutely, make that case.

But bashing random mistakes, one off calls when you lose a game is not going to work. A concerted, repeated line about inequity has a place, but make it part of the bigger issue, not whining about a bad call. Get at the real reason underneath it. It's not ref standards, it's an NRL issue.

[Seiffert82]

Terrible decision by the ref under the circumstances, which needed to be called out.

At the end of the day, the referees are paid professionals. An obviously intentional penalty should have been called for what it was, end of story.

How we played was irrelevant. It's not as if the Dragons deserved to win by default.

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[Off]

I pray there is no contentious calls against the Storm that allows us to play our natural expansive structured game, yay Raiders!!!

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[Billy Walker]

All starts at the top and in our case the coach won’t take ownership of the rubbish performances we are putting in but rather seems to shift blame. That attitude is absorbed by the players (exhibit A Elliot Whingehead) and the fans (see above). Club won’t move forward till that changes and starts to take responsibility for its results.

[Canberra Milk]

Lol savaging the referee standard, how big does he think the pool of referees is? I'll tell you, not very big. And rugby league is a hard sport to referee. Combine those two variables and there's always going to be mistakes

Cocky commentators years ago thought refs were so dumb that they better get ex-players to get in there and show them how is done. That backfired

If you want a better ref standard, the absolute first thing you should do as coach is stop pasting them at every opportunity, because that just puts off young ones and keeps the pool small

That's not "excusing" the decision on the weekend but to go on and on about it every time, gets tiresome

[greeneyed]

Ref behind mistakes in Raiders games given ‘quasi-spell’

The referees behind Round 16’s controversial calls in the Roosters and Raiders games have been given a “quasi-spell” in response.

Gerard Sutton will be in the bunker for the Sharks-Storm game in Round 17 and has been demoted from the role of standby referee for Origin III. Peter Gough, who did not award a penalty late in Raiders-Dragons, will be the touch judge for Eels-Tigers.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 711a5c0323

[The Nickman]

Lol savaging the referee standard, how big does he think the pool of referees is? I'll tell you, not very big. And rugby league is a hard sport to referee. Combine those two variables and there's always going to be mistakes

Cocky commentators years ago thought refs were so dumb that they better get ex-players to get in there and show them how is done. That backfired

If you want a better ref standard, the absolute first thing you should do as coach is stop pasting them at every opportunity, because that just puts off young ones and keeps the pool small

That's not "excusing" the decision on the weekend but to go on and on about it every time, gets tiresome

Well said, agree 100%

[Billy Walker]

Lol savaging the referee standard, how big does he think the pool of referees is? I'll tell you, not very big. And rugby league is a hard sport to referee. Combine those two variables and there's always going to be mistakes

Cocky commentators years ago thought refs were so dumb that they better get ex-players to get in there and show them how is done. That backfired

If you want a better ref standard, the absolute first thing you should do as coach is stop pasting them at every opportunity, because that just puts off young ones and keeps the pool small

That's not "excusing" the decision on the weekend but to go on and on about it every time, gets tiresome

Very well said, I’d also add that another reason it’s very foolish for the club to constantly push this nonsense hard luck raiders narrative is because many of the current fans are clearly buying into it, and that doesn’t bode well for growing a future fan base.

Hard sell for a new supporter - come follow the raiders, the NRL hate us, there’s an unconscious bias against us, the refs don’t give us a fair go, we accept no good players will come here because we don’t have a beach and many of our truest fans don’t see a pathway for us to ever win another comp.

That’s the narrative we are going for?

[-PJ-]

Ref behind mistakes in Raiders games given ‘quasi-spell’

The referees behind Round 16’s controversial calls in the Roosters and Raiders games have been given a “quasi-spell” in response.

Gerard Sutton will be in the bunker for the Sharks-Storm game in Round 17 and has been demoted from the role of standby referee for Origin III. Peter Gough, who did not award a penalty late in Raiders-Dragons, will be the touch judge for Eels-Tigers.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 711a5c0323

Still get paid.

[GreenMachine]

Ricky about to dislocate his shoulder with this reach...

Why doesn't he 'savage himself' over his stupid substitution calls and continued bewildering use of the bench?

Amazing how the blame the refs campaign comes out of the woodwork when the coach has run out of ideas on how to get the best out of a team....

[Badger17]

Lol savaging the referee standard, how big does he think the pool of referees is? I'll tell you, not very big. And rugby league is a hard sport to referee. Combine those two variables and there's always going to be mistakes

Cocky commentators years ago thought refs were so dumb that they better get ex-players to get in there and show them how is done. That backfired

If you want a better ref standard, the absolute first thing you should do as coach is stop pasting them at every opportunity, because that just puts off young ones and keeps the pool small

That's not "excusing" the decision on the weekend but to go on and on about it every time, gets tiresome

What absolute nonsense. Refs are the equivalent of a sport's police force, and what do you get from a police force that is beyond reproach?!

Referees will stop getting pasted at every opportunity when they preform at a high enough standard that people don't feel it's necessary anymore. In other words respect is earned, not given.

Also if Refs should be saved from criticism then why not other groups? There's a small pool of coaches, and the ones whose teams are struggling get pasted at every opportunity. Should that stop because it might turn young coaches away?
Of course not, because the standards of coaching would only get worse if you incentivised people whom can't handle the pressure of the job to pursue it as a career path, and same is true for a lot of career paths including refs.

If you really want a better standard of refereeing then the place to start would be the rulebook and training the NRL uses to train their professional referees. Take a broom through the rulebook and replace or remove as many subjective rules as possible, then basically totally scrap the way they are training their referees and replace it with a method that produces a better outcome.

Sure that's easier said than done, but that's what actually needs to happen for there to be real change. It'll probably never happen though, as it'd be hard and the NRL would have to admit that they have a systemic problem.

[dubby]

Terrible decision by the ref under the circumstances, which needed to be called out.

At the end of the day, the referees are paid professionals. An obviously intentional penalty should have been called for what it was, end of story.

How we played was irrelevant. It's not as if the Dragons deserved to win by default.

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Agreed 100%.

[Badger17]

Lol savaging the referee standard, how big does he think the pool of referees is? I'll tell you, not very big. And rugby league is a hard sport to referee. Combine those two variables and there's always going to be mistakes

Cocky commentators years ago thought refs were so dumb that they better get ex-players to get in there and show them how is done. That backfired

If you want a better ref standard, the absolute first thing you should do as coach is stop pasting them at every opportunity, because that just puts off young ones and keeps the pool small

That's not "excusing" the decision on the weekend but to go on and on about it every time, gets tiresome

Very well said, I’d also add that another reason it’s very foolish for the club to constantly push this nonsense hard luck raiders narrative is because many of the current fans are clearly buying into it, and that doesn’t bode well for growing a future fan base.

Hard sell for a new supporter - come follow the raiders, the NRL hate us, there’s an unconscious bias against us, the refs don’t give us a fair go, we accept no good players will come here because we don’t have a beach and many of our truest fans don’t see a pathway for us to ever win another comp.

That’s the narrative we are going for?

Nobody that matters is suggesting that there is some conspiracy against the Raiders, that's just a strawman.

You also don't know what unconscious bias is, or how pervasive it is.

[Seiffert82]

I understand the sentiment regarding the pipeline of amateur refs coming through the system. To that extent, you have to be careful with how these issues are handled. I don't necessarily think the refs who make mistakes should be dropped (except Cummins...). People make mistakes. I just want the game to be adjudicated more consistently. My gripe is with the rules.

The laws of the game as they stand are a joke. The arbitrary 6 again vs penalty is a joke. The random sin binning of players for professional fouls is a joke. They tweaked the rules this season to dissuade teams from intentionally slowing down the ruck on early tackles by making it an automatic penalty in the defensive 50. That is an admission the rule doesn't work.

The whole reason this rule sucks is exactly what we saw on the weekend. I said it when the rule was introduced and I'll keep saying it until it is changed.

I hope one of the Origin teams loses the decider because of it. We might finally see the 6 again rule ditched.

Good teams will win by playing good football, if the old rules were properly applied. The game didn't need to be artificially sped up with random 6 again penalties, which half the time nobody understands.

[Rickmando]

That’s all well and good Seiff- and I agree that the issue is fundamentally with the NRL - a sporting body that is incredibly unprofessional compared to its local and international counterparts. The rule book has been slowly becoming a joke over the past decade or so, and all rule changes/interpretations recently are seemingly made reactively rather than proactively with rational thought.

But if Rick really is rattling the sabre for systemic change, why aren’t we hearing him championing the cause weekly? These rants only come up, surprise surprise, when we lose a game.

And it’s petulant/spilt milk/sore loser stuff from Rick - it reflects poorly on the club.

Frankly we should expect better from our figurehead who has the job of leading and influencing players and staff around the organisation. It’s selfish - it’s all just another con to try and distract the RL world from the stone cold fact he’s dreadful at his job. And everyone keeps buying it, because the RL world (and this fanbase) have just enough gullible idiots to keep perpetuating the myth…

[Canberra Milk]

What absolute nonsense. Refs are the equivalent of a sport's police force, and what do you get from a police force that is beyond reproach?!

Referees will stop getting pasted at every opportunity when they preform at a high enough standard that people don't feel it's necessary anymore. In other words respect is earned, not given.

Also if Refs should be saved from criticism then why not other groups? There's a small pool of coaches, and the ones whose teams are struggling get pasted at every opportunity. Should that stop because it might turn young coaches away?
Of course not, because the standards of coaching would only get worse if you incentivised people whom can't handle the pressure of the job to pursue it as a career path, and same is true for a lot of career paths including refs.

If you really want a better standard of refereeing then the place to start would be the rulebook and training the NRL uses to train their professional referees. Take a broom through the rulebook and replace or remove as many subjective rules as possible, then basically totally scrap the way they are training their referees and replace it with a method that produces a better outcome.

Sure that's easier said than done, but that's what actually needs to happen for there to be real change. It'll probably never happen though, as it'd be hard and the NRL would have to admit that they have a systemic problem.

Wrong analogy as there's no pool of unpaid amateur, local police that the professional ones are picked from.

In saying that, of course they should look at their training systems etc. But to expect that there's some magic system that will erode all mistakes, you have stars in your eyes

A lot of ref critics are conspiracy theorists too, there's a portion of people out there who genuinely think the refs are paid off, or instructed to favour certain outcomes. It's laughable. And coaches ranting just fans these stupid flames. By all means take it up with Annesely. I see no benefit in having a big public whinge fest though

[Finchy]

I don’t believe they are paid off or even necessarily consciously biased, but I know for a fact there are referees who really don’t like certain players or coaches.

You can’t tell me that a referee that has beef with Ricky (like Perenara or Klein had) that it doesn’t have any influence on which way they might go on a discretionary penalty or a 50/50 call. It’s human nature.

[Rickmando]

I don’t believe they are paid off or even necessarily consciously biased, but I know for a fact there are referees who really don’t like certain players or coaches.

You can’t tell me that a referee that has beef with Ricky (like Perenara or Klein had) that it doesn’t have any influence on which way they might go on a discretionary penalty or a 50/50 call. It’s human nature.

Please. They are out there reacting to a high-speed, unpredictable sport that is played in front of thousands of fans making noise in the background. It’s an assault on the senses. They aren’t thinking as they put the whistle to their mouth “ha ha! I can’t wait to stitch up Rick with this one!”

That is just a comical suggestion Finchy