Botman wrote: ↑July 6, 2022, 9:13 pm
There is about 10 clubs that will be willing to give him that money.
Why would he come here?
Up it to 1.5 then, that's exactly the sort of player we need
And if 1.5m isnt enough?
Do we got to 1.7, 2m? where do we stop
And assuming we come up with the "it's too good to refuse" level of money required to get him, how do the Raiders build a team around Munster when we're committing that sort of salary cap allocation to a single player? what hope do we have to surround him with enough quality players to be successful?
We also need to factor in we're paying in the hood of $1.2 million to two players outside our best 17 next year. So we're already starting with a 12% tax on our salary cap - to then send $1.5mil to Munster you aren't left with much to build a squad.
Because of the players we'd have to release/let walk in order to sign minimum wage guys to even afford it, would probably mean Munster's best weapons would be Whitehead and Croker!
1.5m to deal with that might not even get us a coffee meeting.
Yup as you say on top of that we'd also be paying chunks out of existing contracts to move current players on and free-up cap space. Now, if you could medically retire Croker you'd be on to something. But the club seems set on getting him to 300 games as if some arbitrary number greatens his legacy.
It all comes back to the way we run our team. You have the Storm who have a player similar in the clubman status to Whitehead and Croker in Dale Finucane. They push off re-signing him as long as possible, and when younger and higher priority signings come along he ends up getting pushed out. They know these are the types of players that are great value for $$ and that they allow you to spend with a bit more freedom. Meanwhile we act like a nervous 16-year old on their first date and lock ourselves into longterm early extensions way over market rate just to keep hold of our club men.
Worth noting that Finucane also had a higher peak on the pitch than either Whitehead or Croker. It is close with Whitehead.
Botman wrote: ↑July 7, 2022, 10:34 am
I'd be a hard disagree on that last sentence. Whitehead at his best was head and shoulders above Finucane imo.
But otherwise 100% spot on.
I think reasonable minds could disagree and im probably a bit biased because i LOVE Whitehead style of players more than the boring old steady Finucane's
But that's neither here nor there, the over riding point on how a club like Melbourne operates vs us is 100% right.
The Nickman wrote: ↑July 7, 2022, 9:19 am
Hot tip guys: no matter what we pay someone like Munster he's not moving the needle for our club while ever we have such poor coaching structures. Sure, the cards might fall our way and we have brief periods of success like 2019 and to a lesser extent 2020, but without the correct systems in play we'll always revert to mediocrity no matter who the talent is on the park.
You just can't compete against the well coached and well drilled teams season in and season out while you're a poorly coached rabble with no direction on the park, no set plays or good attacking structures all coupled with hideous bench rotations and a lack of genuine accountability across the squad.
Correct - I’d throw in needing a good CEO as well.
I disagree, I think Don is genuinely a good CEO with the exception of not being able to sack his mate. Everything else he does, I think he does well.
Ok. You’ve made me pause for thought about him. I think we are all speculating how far his role extends and what powers he has or hasn’t got. If the role has limited power or influence then you make a fair point. Maybe it’s an organisational structure issue more than a DFJ issue. There certainly seem to be more influential CEOs in the game but maybe they are better empowered to operate as they do. Perhaps Don is doing the best he can with the role he’s been given?
Leaders in sports need to be very careful about the sentiments they foster.
My younger son is refereeing both rugby and touch now. Proud Dad, but he's honestly a very handy ref, and a complete rules nerd.
The number of times I stand there watching him on the sideline listening to a torrent of abuse going his way from complete boofheads who quite simply don't know the rules is off the charts... in the bloody u12s!
I don't know about league, but these junior rugby refs are tested to absurd degrees on their rules knowledge and their on field communications skills. They are well paid (about $35/hr at 14), but are expected to work hard for it - and they do. The stunning lack of respect they then receive is off the charts.
Where else do 40 something year old men stand around screaming abuse into the face of younger teens and get away with it? (Obviously he's used to that scenario at home, but I mean in public). It's complete outrageous.
I hate to agree with old mate Billy on any subject, but I do concede that some leadership from the top would go a long way on this.
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
Leaders in sports need to be very careful about the sentiments they foster.
My younger son is refereeing both rugby and touch now. Proud Dad, but he's honestly a very handy ref, and a complete rules nerd.
The number of times I stand there watching him on the sideline listening to a torrent of abuse going his way from complete boofheads who quite simply don't know the rules is off the charts... in the bloody u12s!
I don't know about league, but these junior rugby refs are tested to absurd degrees on their rules knowledge and their on field communications skills. They are well paid (about $35/hr at 14), but are expected to work hard for it - and they do. The stunning lack of respect they then receive is off the charts.
Where else do 40 something year old men stand around screaming abuse into the face of younger teens and get away with it? (Obviously he's used to that scenario at home, but I mean in public). It's complete outrageous.
I hate to agree with old mate Billy on any subject, but I do concede that some leadership from the top would go a long way on this.
Yeah, my only recent experience with junior rugby league was in Townsville a few years ago and there was this absolute WANKER dad in a Broncos jersey just screaming abuse at the ref... I was disgusted.
It's junior footy, m8. Give it a **** rest.
But it does indeed come from the top and you can see it permeate throughout the fans... you only have to refer to cat's comments about referees to see why this issue is so widespread. As they say, who'd want to be a ref?
Yup remember the abuse playing rugby and even cricket growing up. I just can't understand what goes through these adults skulls that they think they can talk to someone in that manner who's sacrificing their time and energy.
Yeah every time im around a junior footy field the level of swearing and abuse that comes from parents is absolutely appalling.
Junior sports are going to have to find away to address this pretty soon. It's been steadily building up over the years i feel.
I dont know what they do to solve it though. Like id rather have a couple of cops patrolling the local sporting fields and fining/arresting these **** bag parents than i would them hiding in bushes trying to raise revenue with speeding tickets... but their isn't enough cops to man every ground.
greeneyed wrote: ↑July 6, 2022, 8:16 pm
I watch the press conferences, all of them during the week and post match, and pay attention to what's being said. They're important because if you read between the lines, you can see the messages that are being given to the players during the week (they generally are repeating them, consistently). The post match press conferences are important because they are often public messaging to the team or the NRL. Unfortunately, the coach doesn't regard them as a way of explaining what is going on to the fans. But if you pay close enough attention you can improve your understanding of what's going on.
On the refereeing blunder on Sunday, he was giving the NRL a message. What he said was absolutely correct and the NRL had to admit it the next day. Whether that's a good idea to say that publicly, I'm not sure. Particularly, as I think it best for team psychology to put aside anything outside the club's and team's control. A no excuses approach is best for the team. ("Unlucky" should never be an excuse). Best to have the media and fans point out the refereeing blunders.
Ricky has described himself as a "player's coach". Would you agree that he uses press conferences to protect the players/team? Hence the comments about being unlucky, the ref, etc etc
Why would a coach publicly berate his side at a press conference???? Have a think about it champ. Do you really think he should saying that whiteheads past it and our attack sucks etc etc . I have no doubt what gets said in the press conference is miles different to the week level reviews.
Botman wrote:Yeah every time im around a junior footy field the level of swearing and abuse that comes from parents is absolutely appalling.
Junior sports are going to have to find away to address this pretty soon. It's been steadily building up over the years i feel.
I dont know what they do to solve it though. Like id rather have a couple of cops patrolling the local sporting fields and fining/arresting these **** bag parents than i would them hiding in bushes trying to raise revenue with speeding tickets... but their isn't enough cops to man every ground.
We haven't seemed to figure out that if you want to part from your older statesman gracefully you have to allow another team 1 or 2 years good footy out of them. But your departing player gets more $ and a 3-4 year contract, so it's a win for them.
The point being that the Storm move on Finucane types before they are washed up - so they can take a big contract elsewhere before they retire. That should have been the Whitehead pathway two contracts back. It was too late by the most recent contract.
Note. I doubt the Storm would ever move on Croker. He's a stalwart, club captain, and would be treated as such.
Boomercm wrote: ↑July 9, 2022, 9:36 pm
We haven't seemed to figure out that if you want to part from your older statesman gracefully you have to allow another team 1 or 2 years good footy out of them. But your departing player gets more $ and a 3-4 year contract, so it's a win for them.
The point being that the Storm move on Finucane types before they are washed up - so they can take a big contract elsewhere before they retire. That should have been the Whitehead pathway two contracts back. It was too late by the most recent contract.
Note. I doubt the Storm would ever move on Croker. He's a stalwart, club captain, and would be treated as such.
Great observation.
I think footy is about value for money and being good to the people in the game. Sometimes those things conflict each other. Finding that balance while making the correct decisions is the key.
Boomercm wrote: ↑July 9, 2022, 9:36 pm
We haven't seemed to figure out that if you want to part from your older statesman gracefully you have to allow another team 1 or 2 years good footy out of them. But your departing player gets more $ and a 3-4 year contract, so it's a win for them.
The point being that the Storm move on Finucane types before they are washed up - so they can take a big contract elsewhere before they retire. That should have been the Whitehead pathway two contracts back. It was too late by the most recent contract.
Note. I doubt the Storm would ever move on Croker. He's a stalwart, club captain, and would be treated as such.
Great observation.
I think footy is about value for money and being good to the people in the game. Sometimes those things conflict each other. Finding that balance while making the correct decisions is the key.
Storm would never have recruited Croker. They go for hard running centres that can break the line and aim up in defence. They don’t sign players that don’t move the needle.
Boomercm wrote: ↑July 9, 2022, 9:36 pm
We haven't seemed to figure out that if you want to part from your older statesman gracefully you have to allow another team 1 or 2 years good footy out of them. But your departing player gets more $ and a 3-4 year contract, so it's a win for them.
The point being that the Storm move on Finucane types before they are washed up - so they can take a big contract elsewhere before they retire. That should have been the Whitehead pathway two contracts back. It was too late by the most recent contract.
Note. I doubt the Storm would ever move on Croker. He's a stalwart, club captain, and would be treated as such.
Great observation.
I think footy is about value for money and being good to the people in the game. Sometimes those things conflict each other. Finding that balance while making the correct decisions is the key.
Storm would never have recruited Croker. They go for hard running centres that can break the line and aim up in defence. They don’t sign players that don’t move the needle.
I agree with you. We signed him for too long.
I think it was an emotional feel good signing. Thats the point im making.
Boomercm wrote: ↑July 9, 2022, 9:36 pm
We haven't seemed to figure out that if you want to part from your older statesman gracefully you have to allow another team 1 or 2 years good footy out of them. But your departing player gets more $ and a 3-4 year contract, so it's a win for them.
The point being that the Storm move on Finucane types before they are washed up - so they can take a big contract elsewhere before they retire. That should have been the Whitehead pathway two contracts back. It was too late by the most recent contract.
Note. I doubt the Storm would ever move on Croker. He's a stalwart, club captain, and would be treated as such.
That’s a good point and I hadn’t thought of it like that.
As someone pointed out in another thread a while back, I don’t have a problem with us being known as a club that, on balance, errs on the side of loyalty. We probably can’t afford to be perceived as ruthless like some other sides are.
In saying that, on evidence, not only do we give our veterans the extra contract that the storm wouldn’t, taking them to the end of their good footy years…..we slap an extra 3 years on top of that after decline is already apparent.
Boomercm wrote: ↑July 9, 2022, 9:36 pm
We haven't seemed to figure out that if you want to part from your older statesman gracefully you have to allow another team 1 or 2 years good footy out of them. But your departing player gets more $ and a 3-4 year contract, so it's a win for them.
The point being that the Storm move on Finucane types before they are washed up - so they can take a big contract elsewhere before they retire. That should have been the Whitehead pathway two contracts back. It was too late by the most recent contract.
Note. I doubt the Storm would ever move on Croker. He's a stalwart, club captain, and would be treated as such.
And he'd be earning about half what we pay him at the Storm. Matt Geyer is a great comparison. Geyer had a fair bit more flexability and was consistently a higher performer.
To think the Storm would be happy paying Croker $500k is laughable.
