2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

[BadnMean]

It’s a shame - I was starting to think it might be a good idea to throw the bank at Burton on November 1 - now I’ve seen that error rate it’s clear he’ll never make it.

Go back to reggies and learn his trade a bit.

[Boomercm]

No. The error counts on NRL are either

5,3,2,2

or

4,3,1,2

So he has consistently made errors. And if I were an opposing team I would be targeting him (that is not counting the defense).

In terms of what player I think he is: I think he is very exciting. At times even amazing. But he has to be to balance out the errors he has made. He could just as soon win or lose us a game single-handedly. If I'm picking our team, he makes it only because we don't have much else going for us in terms of attack, and because Charnze has been well below his best since the neck operation.

[lightning]

Which player do you believe he is? Entirely each posters perogative. Me? I say 4 games and even the 6 he has started is not enough to say. He needs more time. We as a club need more time to properly assess that. CNK should not play another minute of fullback this season unless injury/suspension/sin bin necessitates it

Prob the club needs to look at the scenario if neither is the future.

The club has already tacitly admitted CNK is not the future. It very well maybe is Savage isnt either. I want to keep stressing this. I am a big defender of Savage and want him to play but i am by no means rusted on thinking this guy is an NRL fullback of the future, let alone a star fullback. We need to perservre with him but yes, there is a very real, and ill say it again as i have many times, very likely chance that Savage is just a winger. (And what level, that also remains to be seen)...

but for now, where we are in this season and where this squad is in it's team building process in regards to winning a comp.... Savage must (IMO anyways) play this year out at fullback. And then lets figure out how we feel about him with a greater body of work to assess

Don’t disagree with him getting more time. I actually think CNK would go well in the centres and our best team could be savage at back and Kris on bench.

[Botman]

Yeah i think CNK, if he was moved there fulltime would be a really good centre... but this year has added some complexity to that. Kris is playing really good footy there and appears to have really improved his defence since the back end of last year, and Timoko whilst not being a very gifted passers, is a bull in a china shop. We also have HSS who's a natural born centre and IMO potentially our best, Morkos who's a highly touted youngster, and Croker probably... so that centre position, whilst not having a true star at this point is pretty competitive right now!

[Off]

CNK... wow.

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[Lui_Bon]

ol EDIT fingers Rapana might have a thing or two to say about that
Horsbrah this year has improved his handling errors significantly

The league is littered with players who had a loose carry in their first season or two who corrected it with time and maturity

Love rapa and horse but they still drop the ball.

I’m talking about elite fullbacks like we all hope this kid will be.

Tedesco. He was an error machine as well as potentially great. It wasn't just injuries that were holding him back, it was mistakes.

[Postman Pat]

I’d be interested in the Stats, but I don’t reckon Rapana would be at Savages level. Someone told me Xavier had set a new record, but I don’t know whether that’s true or not. Steve Marvin may have had more in one game than Savage this season.

Who ever told you that wouldn’t know his **** from his elbows

Some context around Savages errors:
Name Games Errors Average
Xavier Savage 9 12 1.333333333

Cody Walker 14 27 1.928571429
Lachlan Illias 14 24 1.714285714
Matt Burton 15 23 1.533333333
Reece Walsh 14 22 1.571428571
Nicho Hynes 14 19 1.357142857
Clint Gutherson 14 18 1.285714286
James Tedesco 14 15 1.071428571
S. Drinkwater 11 14 1.272727273
Kayln Ponga 12 13 1.083333333

what happens if you limit that to just games he started?

What happens with games that they’ve all started?

It’s not going to be history making for a rookie fullback to improve his handling skills as he gets more experience, you can essentially see when he’s going to drop it at times by the way he’s holding the ball. Video sessions are done for a very good reason, and it takes more then half a season to change the way a players has ran the ball all there lives to adapt to first grade.

[twistedbydesign]

The only thing we can definitively say about Savage this year is that the first 6 or 8 weeks of dabbling with NSW Cup/bench/wing were a straight waste of time. Give him the rest of the year, let's see what we've got. He's shown easily enough upside to warrant investing some time into.

[Roger Kenworthy]

ol EDIT fingers Rapana might have a thing or two to say about that
Horsbrah this year has improved his handling errors significantly

The league is littered with players who had a loose carry in their first season or two who corrected it with time and maturity

Yeah Rapa was worse than Savage. Savage has a more solid catch than Rapa did, he tends to lose control more in contact. Rapa found a way to use his body to protect the ball and he was away, trust he's playing a big part in mentoring Savage.

[BadnMean]

ol EDIT fingers Rapana might have a thing or two to say about that
Horsbrah this year has improved his handling errors significantly

The league is littered with players who had a loose carry in their first season or two who corrected it with time and maturity

Yeah Rapa was worse than Savage. Savage has a more solid catch than Rapa did, he tends to lose control more in contact. Rapa found a way to use his body to protect the ball and he was away, trust he's playing a big part in mentoring Savage.

Rapa used to drop it because he was catching up on fitness and was doing 3 million things at once every time he ran it- pushing, squirming, transferring hands, he'd fend with both hands if he could.

Savage drops it because he hasn't played footy vs men for 2 years (covid) and he carries it like a lair. Both fixable.

Just on the errors- FBs make errors. All of them. They touch the ball more than anyone and often desperately scrambling/under huge pressure. I'll give a crap about Savage's errors next year of he's making 2+ per game. This year I just want to see what he can do when he holds it.

[Roger Kenworthy]

ol EDIT fingers Rapana might have a thing or two to say about that
Horsbrah this year has improved his handling errors significantly

The league is littered with players who had a loose carry in their first season or two who corrected it with time and maturity

Yeah Rapa was worse than Savage. Savage has a more solid catch than Rapa did, he tends to lose control more in contact. Rapa found a way to use his body to protect the ball and he was away, trust he's playing a big part in mentoring Savage.

Rapa used to drop it because he was catching up on fitness and was doing 3 million things at once every time he ran it- pushing, squirming, transferring hands, he'd fend with both hands if he could.

Savage drops it because he hasn't played footy vs men for 2 years (covid) and he carries it like a lair. Both fixable.

Just on the errors- FBs make errors. All of them. They touch the ball more than anyone and often desperately scrambling/under huge pressure. I'll give a crap about Savage's errors next year of he's making 2+ per game. This year I just want to see what he can do when he holds it.

[Botman]

Rapana dropped the ball he was a god damn psychopathic super hero who was in episode 1-2 of his arc... my guy just didnt know yet how to harness and maximise his powers yet!

[BadnMean]

Rapana dropped the ball he was a god damn psychopathic super hero who was in episode 1-2 of his arc... my guy just didnt know yet how to harness and maximise his powers yet!

Origin story clearly involves that time he fractured his skull but played on with it, releasing untold powers- and the subsequent secret experiments implanted in his noggin to help him harness the lunacy.

[Seiffert82]

Savage hasn't started in all of his games this season, so the error stats may be skewed.

Anyway, whatever his error numbers are, it's blindingly obvious he needs to improve his ball security and his passing, which isn't included in the stats. We don't need maths to see that. He makes multiple handling errors in a game, and can't defend for peanuts. That's a fact.

Regarding the team and the bench...I like it.

There appears like there is a lot of preemptive expectation that CNK will be on the field at the first sign of a Savage error. That seems highly unlikely to me, but time will tell. I've also been told the coach has an allergy to blooding rookies, when the fact of the matter is we have played way more rookies this season than any other team.

For all Stuart's issues as a coach (and there's a few), I actually think he backs his young players quite a lot. They get a lot of leeway to make mistakes.

His use of the bench and backing veteran players that are well past their use-by date is another matter entirely.

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[Seiffert82]

Good team, we should win this game if our attitude is right.

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[Finchy]

Good team, we should win this game if our attitude is right.

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Alas, their attitude was not right

[Seiffert82]

Good team, we should win this game if our attitude is right.

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Alas, their attitude was not right

Yeah, that's always the worry. Especially for 80 minutes.

Seriously though, our forward pack should be all over theirs.

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[Ilanraiders]

Good team, we should win this game if our attitude is right.

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Alas, their attitude was not right

Yeah, that's always the worry. Especially for 80 minutes.

Seriously though, our forward pack should be all over theirs.

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We need Jack to also give some early ball out to the centres, just take on the line when we’re near the tryline…. Hopefully Papa gets back some good form

[Roger Kenworthy]

Good team, we should win this game if our attitude is right.

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Alas, their attitude was not right

Yeah, that's always the worry. Especially for 80 minutes.

Seriously though, our forward pack should be all over theirs.

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We need Jack to also give some early ball out to the centres, just take on the line when we’re near the tryline…. Hopefully Papa gets back some good form

There needs to be some fractures in the defensive line first. If you just shovel it out they'll be easily covered.

[Ilanraiders]

Good team, we should win this game if our attitude is right.

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Alas, their attitude was not right

Yeah, that's always the worry. Especially for 80 minutes.

Seriously though, our forward pack should be all over theirs.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

We need Jack to also give some early ball out to the centres, just take on the line when we’re near the tryline…. Hopefully Papa gets back some good form

There needs to be some fractures in the defensive line first. If you just shovel it out they'll be easily covered.

True that… but we need to be asking more questions…

[greeneyed]

Canberra Raiders' run home has them primed for NRL finals

The Raiders have one of the easiest draws of the six clubs fighting it out for the bottom two spots in the top eight. Using the average ladder position of their opponents as a guide to how tough the remaining fixtures were, the Raiders have the second best run home with 9.6 their average. The Knights (10.5) were the only one of the six teams with a higher average, and therefore easier draw.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

BEHIND THE LIMELIGHT: Sebastian Kris: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2022/06 ... ian-kris3/

[Roger Kenworthy]

Alas, their attitude was not right

Yeah, that's always the worry. Especially for 80 minutes.

Seriously though, our forward pack should be all over theirs.

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We need Jack to also give some early ball out to the centres, just take on the line when we’re near the tryline…. Hopefully Papa gets back some good form

There needs to be some fractures in the defensive line first. If you just shovel it out they'll be easily covered.

True that… but we need to be asking more questions…

Definitely

[Mickey_Raider]

Canberra Raiders' run home has them primed for NRL finals

The Raiders have one of the easiest draws of the six clubs fighting it out for the bottom two spots in the top eight. Using the average ladder position of their opponents as a guide to how tough the remaining fixtures were, the Raiders have the second best run home with 9.6 their average. The Knights (10.5) were the only one of the six teams with a higher average, and therefore easier draw.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

BEHIND THE LIMELIGHT: Sebastian Kris: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2022/06 ... ian-kris3/

I feel like it will be very out of character for us to storm home for a 6-8 placed finish.

Ricky sides tend to either be more or less competent all year (2016, 2019, 2020); or else a frustrating, underachieving, game squandering rabble who just can’t get it together (2017, 2018, 2021).

You have to unfortunately say that we have taken on the character of the latter, rather than the former this year.

[Neeeegz]

I'd like us to whack an old fashioned 52-4 drubbing of the opposition, just to say, hi, still here, if the players look forward and lose winable games in the next 4 weeks, then season will be done.
Plan the trip to Bali

[Raidernation]

dragons have a huge advantage in both centre positions. Inside effort, communication and counting numbers will be the crucial. Little bit worried of the gap between fogs and whitehead with the dummy and run.

[Raider Azz]

Canberra Raiders' run home has them primed for NRL finals

The Raiders have one of the easiest draws of the six clubs fighting it out for the bottom two spots in the top eight. Using the average ladder position of their opponents as a guide to how tough the remaining fixtures were, the Raiders have the second best run home with 9.6 their average. The Knights (10.5) were the only one of the six teams with a higher average, and therefore easier draw.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

BEHIND THE LIMELIGHT: Sebastian Kris: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2022/06 ... ian-kris3/

I feel like it will be very out of character for us to storm home for a 6-8 placed finish.

Ricky sides tend to either be more or less competent all year (2016, 2019, 2020); or else a frustrating, underachieving, game squandering rabble who just can’t get it together (2017, 2018, 2021).

You have to unfortunately say that we have taken on the character of the latter, rather than the former this year.

We were not competent all year in 2016. We were average as hell the first half of the season (middling around 8th place) then suddenly turned invincible and went on a 10 game winning streak to finish 2nd.

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[Finchy]

dragons have a huge advantage in both centre positions. Inside effort, communication and counting numbers will be the crucial. Little bit worried of the gap between fogs and whitehead with the dummy and run.

Depends which version of Lomax turns up. He either plays like vintage Matt Gidley or Curtis Scott every second week. Let’s hope the Curtis version shows up this week.

[Roger Kenworthy]

Rapana dropped the ball he was a god damn psychopathic super hero who was in episode 1-2 of his arc... my guy just didnt know yet how to harness and maximise his powers yet!

Imagine being told in 2014 that Rapa would still be playing for us and the Kiwis in 2022

[BadnMean]

dragons have a huge advantage in both centre positions. Inside effort, communication and counting numbers will be the crucial. Little bit worried of the gap between fogs and whitehead with the dummy and run.

Depends which version of Lomax turns up. He either plays like vintage Matt Gidley or Curtis Scott every second week. Let’s hope the Curtis version shows up this week.

It'll be a good test of how much our guys have improved their defence. Definitely two dangerous centres and will be fed well at some stage by DCE.

Who lines up on who? Is it Kris v Lomax and Timoko v Suli? Kris has had trouble with guys with good footwork in previous seasons but has been better this year.

[TongueFTW]

Going into the bye, this game could be season defining:

* For those advocating for CNK over Savage - I totally disagree. I feel as though they are comparing 2019/2020 CNK to Savage. I would agree if CNK was in that sort of form, but he hasn’t been. I harp on about it - but for me, the most important defensive skill for the back 3 in today’s game is kick defusal. Since so much of the football is now played receiving a kick, failing to catch a bomb is a momentum shifter. CNK has struggled big time under the high ball this year, either dropping it, or catching and falling backwards and starting the set off poorly. To me, this is a classic “ceiling/floor” argument - Savage has a higher ceiling, but I am not convinced his floor is that much worse than 2022 CNK. 2019/2020 CNK is a different story.
* Dragons have quite a few strengths. Of course, Ben Hunt is their barometer - he is leading Dally M’s for a reason. Has a sound kicking game (doesn’t mind the early kick). Suli killed us last year playing for Manly, targeting Sam Williams and running for over 200m, Whitehead and Timoko will have a big job on their hands. Whitehead/Fogarty is a huge concern. Francis Molo off the bench can cause some damage too.
* They also have a lot of weaknesses. Ramsey and Feagai don’t provide huge metres out of trouble, bombing to Ravalawa and getting him on tackle 1 would be wise (also takes Suli out of tackle 2 as he is left side). Hunt is their main kicking option, so we should be shooting out of the line to pressure him as much as possible. Even though Lawrie had his best first grade game against Souths, I feel as though we can get a lot of joy through the middle against him and Woods who can be lazy in defence - I am really hoping Savage follows every Tapine run this week, we will get joy in the middle. Ramsey is run first, so we should be shooting out of the line when they go second man.

[The Nickman]

Who is "advocating for CNK over Savage"? I must've missed that post.

All I see is a lot of disproportional hate thrown towards CNK for simply being named on the bench, a role I think suits his versatility quite well.

[Mickey_Raider]

Canberra Raiders' run home has them primed for NRL finals

The Raiders have one of the easiest draws of the six clubs fighting it out for the bottom two spots in the top eight. Using the average ladder position of their opponents as a guide to how tough the remaining fixtures were, the Raiders have the second best run home with 9.6 their average. The Knights (10.5) were the only one of the six teams with a higher average, and therefore easier draw.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

BEHIND THE LIMELIGHT: Sebastian Kris: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2022/06 ... ian-kris3/

I feel like it will be very out of character for us to storm home for a 6-8 placed finish.

Ricky sides tend to either be more or less competent all year (2016, 2019, 2020); or else a frustrating, underachieving, game squandering rabble who just can’t get it together (2017, 2018, 2021).

You have to unfortunately say that we have taken on the character of the latter, rather than the former this year.

We were not competent all year in 2016. We were average as hell the first half of the season (middling around 8th place) then suddenly turned invincible and went on a 10 game winning streak to finish 2nd.

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Went back to jog my memory.

We started the season 4-1, and rounded out the season by going 13-1.

Apart from a little form slump in the middle of the year where we went 1-4, we were pretty consistent all year.

By this point of the year in 2016 we were well entrenched in the top 4.

[Seiffert82]

Good team, we should win this game if our attitude is right.

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Alas, their attitude was not right

Yeah, that's always the worry. Especially for 80 minutes.

Seriously though, our forward pack should be all over theirs.

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We need Jack to also give some early ball out to the centres, just take on the line when we’re near the tryline…. Hopefully Papa gets back some good form

Absolutely. I'd love to see our centres get a few early runs to test their outside backs and for Jack to save himself for later in the contest when the forwards tire.

The weather forecast suggests the conditions are going to be horrendous. Not the time for complicated game plans or offloads. Just keep it simple and dominate them through the middle as the game wears on.

Jack's long kicking game will be important too, so I don't want to see him running it on the 4th unless we're in the attacking 20.

If it's as wet as forecast, someone also needs to tell Savage to put a lid on his touch football carries.

[The Nickman]

If it's as wet as forecast, someone also needs to tell Savage to put a lid on his touch football carries.

Someone should do that anyway.

[Azza]

Canberra Raiders' run home has them primed for NRL finals

The Raiders have one of the easiest draws of the six clubs fighting it out for the bottom two spots in the top eight. Using the average ladder position of their opponents as a guide to how tough the remaining fixtures were, the Raiders have the second best run home with 9.6 their average. The Knights (10.5) were the only one of the six teams with a higher average, and therefore easier draw.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

BEHIND THE LIMELIGHT: Sebastian Kris: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2022/06 ... ian-kris3/

I feel like it will be very out of character for us to storm home for a 6-8 placed finish.

Ricky sides tend to either be more or less competent all year (2016, 2019, 2020); or else a frustrating, underachieving, game squandering rabble who just can’t get it together (2017, 2018, 2021).

You have to unfortunately say that we have taken on the character of the latter, rather than the former this year.

We were not competent all year in 2016. We were average as hell the first half of the season (middling around 8th place) then suddenly turned invincible and went on a 10 game winning streak to finish 2nd.

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Went back to jog my memory.

We started the season 4-1, and rounded out the season by going 13-1.

Apart from a little form slump in the middle of the year where we went 1-4, we were pretty consistent all year.

By this point of the year in 2016 we were well entrenched in the top 4.

Shoulda won the comp. Blew it with that Sharks home game in week 1 of the finals.