Joe Tapine re-signs with Canberra Raiders to end 2027

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Roger Kenworthy
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Re: Rivals circle Joseph Tapine

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

sprintman wrote: July 2, 2022, 5:35 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 1, 2022, 11:44 pm
BadnMean wrote: July 1, 2022, 6:15 pm
Azza wrote: July 1, 2022, 5:55 pm Yep - but I don't expect it to improve anyway. I'm also going to go out on a limb though and say I don't expect Papa to be here much longer.
I've heard people say that for several years now. He's still here.

He's signed until end 2025. Managers option for 2026.

If he was going to the Dolphins, he'd let us know.

We haven't chased any spine players worth $750k since Teddy. We noped out of Reynolds and co at the price and went for Fog at $400k or whatever.

We have Jack and Hodgo in the spine on north of $700k so theoretically we can go after a halfback when Hodgo moves on.

If we don't go splashing a million on props that is.

It's a hard thing to manage. Tarps is awesome. I hope he stays. But million dollar forwards do not deliver.

Lolo was more destructive than anything even Tarps has done. A year later it was clearly a dud deal for NQ.
Really wish we'd pushed for Reynolds. Poor cap management pretty much excluded us from that race even if we'd wanted to. Whitehead and Croker our $million+ 2headed monster just keeps paying out.
Whitehead and Croker have screwed us for the foreseeable future
Yeah but that's on Donny. He has to be accountable for something as much as others argue it's Stick's job to manage the cap.
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Re: Rivals circle Joseph Tapine

Post by lightning »

Northern Raider wrote: July 1, 2022, 6:22 pm
BadnMean wrote: July 1, 2022, 4:22 pm He's already on 750k.

I'd say beyond that figure, you just don't get much value from props on more $$$ than that.

We have Papa on about the same from when he was best in the game and scoring matchwinning tries in huge games over and above his prop duties.

He needs to be a priority re-signing but it shouldn't go above 750/850k (tie in some bonuses if cap increases). We still need someone to play in behind him if he wants to win anything.

It's possible he'll get a million dollar offer but I don't think we need 1.8mill tied up in 2 props until 2026.

I'd pay a mill a season for DCE, Cleary, Teddy and the like... maybe not even Trbo as he's awesome but never plays more than 50-75% of a season. Need to regularly be the difference between winning and losing.
This is the reality of it. While props are important they are not match winners and that is the category of player you need to be investing the $1m salaries into. Broncos recent seasons are good examples. Payne Haas was putting up insane numbers yet they were mired at the bottom of the ladder. Recruit a guy like Reynolds in a key position and now they are finals contenders again.

Taps is already near the top of the pay scale for his position. How much more will people be prepared to pay him? Also have to query if his value is based on form of half the current season more so than his preceding 7 seasons in the NRL.
[/quote

Agree. Panthers won comp last year with props on 500k
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Re: Rivals circle Joseph Tapine

Post by gerg »

Botman wrote:
President Clinton wrote: July 1, 2022, 8:42 pm
Botman wrote: July 1, 2022, 8:19 pm Why are we needing to sway him into staying?
Did i miss something?
Maybe he wants to win a premiership.
Im sure he does. But the Panthers arent letting players like Kikau to walk to pay him. The storm are notrious for not over paying forwards, particularly middle forwards
The roosters are going through a tough time right now with their forward pack but i dont think they're in the business of paying huge money for middle forwards. Those are the reliable premiership contending teams. Anything beyond them and i think it's going to take very serious coin difference to get him to move and if that's what happens, as sad as it is, so be it. But we're not a club that can hope to be successful if we're paying a middle forward, even one as good as him, 1m+

Put bluntly, sure fire premiership contenders arent paying what it would take to get Tapine away from Canberra. And i dont believe either he or the club wish to end their relationship. So... long story short, and i've been wrong before and certainly will be again, but the rivals may circle but i dont believe he's going anywhere.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Roosters are a genuine contender for his signature - of course they wouldn't pay him a million on the cap, but uncle Nick's a woeful golfer. They showed interest in Haas and that seems to have cooled off a bit and then the short term signing of Lodge. Their pack is seriously lacking a leader and Tarps is showing those qualities.
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Re: Rivals circle Joseph Tapine

Post by sprintman »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 2, 2022, 6:02 am
sprintman wrote: July 2, 2022, 5:35 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 1, 2022, 11:44 pm
BadnMean wrote: July 1, 2022, 6:15 pm
Azza wrote: July 1, 2022, 5:55 pm Yep - but I don't expect it to improve anyway. I'm also going to go out on a limb though and say I don't expect Papa to be here much longer.
I've heard people say that for several years now. He's still here.

He's signed until end 2025. Managers option for 2026.

If he was going to the Dolphins, he'd let us know.

We haven't chased any spine players worth $750k since Teddy. We noped out of Reynolds and co at the price and went for Fog at $400k or whatever.

We have Jack and Hodgo in the spine on north of $700k so theoretically we can go after a halfback when Hodgo moves on.

If we don't go splashing a million on props that is.

It's a hard thing to manage. Tarps is awesome. I hope he stays. But million dollar forwards do not deliver.

Lolo was more destructive than anything even Tarps has done. A year later it was clearly a dud deal for NQ.
Really wish we'd pushed for Reynolds. Poor cap management pretty much excluded us from that race even if we'd wanted to. Whitehead and Croker our $million+ 2headed monster just keeps paying out.
Whitehead and Croker have screwed us for the foreseeable future
Yeah but that's on Donny. He has to be accountable for something as much as others argue it's Stick's job to manage the cap.
Agree. No idea how he still has a job because he’s incompetent
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by dubby »

Clubs I assume would be genuinely interested:

Titans
Roosters
Knights
Tigers
Dolphins
South's
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Rivals circle Joseph Tapine

Post by Billy Walker »

sprintman wrote: July 2, 2022, 5:35 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 1, 2022, 11:44 pm
BadnMean wrote: July 1, 2022, 6:15 pm
Azza wrote: July 1, 2022, 5:55 pm Yep - but I don't expect it to improve anyway. I'm also going to go out on a limb though and say I don't expect Papa to be here much longer.
I've heard people say that for several years now. He's still here.

He's signed until end 2025. Managers option for 2026.

If he was going to the Dolphins, he'd let us know.

We haven't chased any spine players worth $750k since Teddy. We noped out of Reynolds and co at the price and went for Fog at $400k or whatever.

We have Jack and Hodgo in the spine on north of $700k so theoretically we can go after a halfback when Hodgo moves on.

If we don't go splashing a million on props that is.

It's a hard thing to manage. Tarps is awesome. I hope he stays. But million dollar forwards do not deliver.

Lolo was more destructive than anything even Tarps has done. A year later it was clearly a dud deal for NQ.
Really wish we'd pushed for Reynolds. Poor cap management pretty much excluded us from that race even if we'd wanted to. Whitehead and Croker our $million+ 2headed monster just keeps paying out.
Whitehead and Croker have screwed us for the foreseeable future
Yep - glad someone is joining the dots on that.
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Re: Rivals circle Joseph Tapine

Post by Greenev »

Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 10:32 am
sprintman wrote: July 2, 2022, 5:35 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 1, 2022, 11:44 pm
BadnMean wrote: July 1, 2022, 6:15 pm
Azza wrote: July 1, 2022, 5:55 pm Yep - but I don't expect it to improve anyway. I'm also going to go out on a limb though and say I don't expect Papa to be here much longer.
I've heard people say that for several years now. He's still here.

He's signed until end 2025. Managers option for 2026.

If he was going to the Dolphins, he'd let us know.

We haven't chased any spine players worth $750k since Teddy. We noped out of Reynolds and co at the price and went for Fog at $400k or whatever.

We have Jack and Hodgo in the spine on north of $700k so theoretically we can go after a halfback when Hodgo moves on.

If we don't go splashing a million on props that is.

It's a hard thing to manage. Tarps is awesome. I hope he stays. But million dollar forwards do not deliver.

Lolo was more destructive than anything even Tarps has done. A year later it was clearly a dud deal for NQ.
Really wish we'd pushed for Reynolds. Poor cap management pretty much excluded us from that race even if we'd wanted to. Whitehead and Croker our $million+ 2headed monster just keeps paying out.
Whitehead and Croker have screwed us for the foreseeable future
Yep - glad someone is joining the dots on that.
And don’t get me wrong, I love croker as a bloke. But Boyd Cordener was medically retired at a young age, therefore putting roosters in a better position.

I don’t know if croker is trying to make a miracle comeback, but let’s face it, we all know he’s far done.

The best interest for the club would have been to push for a medical retirement after he re busted his shoulder, but it seems as if he’s trying to make a comeback and still thinks he “has got it”, therefore putting the club in even more grief, ontop of whitehead sucking the life out of the cap too.

We won’t be winning a premiership while we have those two plodders sucking up our cap space.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by BadnMean »

dubby wrote: July 2, 2022, 10:24 am Clubs I assume would be genuinely interested:

Titans
Roosters
Knights
Tigers
Dolphins
South's
Roosters will have Hargreaves contract ending, freeing up about the same amount as Tapine is on currently.

But everyone "signs for less than they could have" just to be part of the incredible Rorters organisation.

Dolphins would be the other big shout. But Wayne traditionally won't pay overs for props. He gives a lot less of a crap about leaving organisations in a cap mess the shorter his stints though.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Northern Raider »

BadnMean wrote: July 2, 2022, 11:05 am
dubby wrote: July 2, 2022, 10:24 am Clubs I assume would be genuinely interested:

Titans
Roosters
Knights
Tigers
Dolphins
South's
Roosters will have Hargreaves contract ending, freeing up about the same amount as Tapine is on currently.

But everyone "signs for less than they could have" just to be part of the incredible Rorters organisation.

Dolphins would be the other big shout. But Wayne traditionally won't pay overs for props. He gives a lot less of a crap about leaving organisations in a cap mess the shorter his stints though.
Always room under the sombrero.

Jokes aside, Roosters about the obvious landing spot. With JWH and Taukeiaho on the way out they have some big gaps to fill in the middle. Lots of rumour they were chasing Haas so Tapine would be a viable alternative.

Dolphins have already loaded on on forwards. Hard to see them forking out the cash needed for Tapine when they have massive holes to fill in the backs and spine.

Knights, Tigers and Bunnies have far greater needs so should be looking elsewhere.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Billy Walker »

It’s a tough gig in the 8 or 10 jumper. Over the last decade we have seen some great props explode on the scene into the NRL but many return to the field reasonably quickly. I’m confident there will always be the next big boned kid coming through willing to disregard his body for a few years. Would love to keep Tarps but definitely not at all costs.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Botman »

Northern Raider wrote: July 2, 2022, 11:30 am Always room under the sombrero.

Jokes aside, Roosters about the obvious landing spot. With JWH and Taukeiaho on the way out they have some big gaps to fill in the middle. Lots of rumour they were chasing Haas so Tapine would be a viable alternative.
Agreed. I am reasonable confident we'll keep him
If he leaves, the roosters would be my run away favourite to be the ones to sign him... i dont think they'll be willing to stump up the money to entice him away myself. But underestimating the roosters and politis is never a good idea
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Re: Rivals circle Joseph Tapine

Post by Seiffert82 »


lightning wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: July 1, 2022, 6:22 pm
BadnMean wrote: July 1, 2022, 4:22 pm He's already on 750k.

I'd say beyond that figure, you just don't get much value from props on more $$$ than that.

We have Papa on about the same from when he was best in the game and scoring matchwinning tries in huge games over and above his prop duties.

He needs to be a priority re-signing but it shouldn't go above 750/850k (tie in some bonuses if cap increases). We still need someone to play in behind him if he wants to win anything.

It's possible he'll get a million dollar offer but I don't think we need 1.8mill tied up in 2 props until 2026.

I'd pay a mill a season for DCE, Cleary, Teddy and the like... maybe not even Trbo as he's awesome but never plays more than 50-75% of a season. Need to regularly be the difference between winning and losing.
This is the reality of it. While props are important they are not match winners and that is the category of player you need to be investing the $1m salaries into. Broncos recent seasons are good examples. Payne Haas was putting up insane numbers yet they were mired at the bottom of the ladder. Recruit a guy like Reynolds in a key position and now they are finals contenders again.

Taps is already near the top of the pay scale for his position. How much more will people be prepared to pay him? Also have to query if his value is based on form of half the current season more so than his preceding 7 seasons in the NRL.
Agree. Panthers won comp last year with props on 500k
Absolutely. We're already paying Papa and Tapine premium dollars. It sucks that the likes of Guler have gone backwards, which puts pressure on us to retain Tapine.

If he wants upwards of $800k a season on a long term deal, it's a massive risk for the club.


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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by FROG »

There is no way tapine is currently on anywhere near 700k. Pretty sure Papa's salary was reported not too long ago and it was circa 650k which is spot on. Tapine would be on around 600k is also spot on, however we will probably need to up that to secure him long term and thats what I expect will happen. Circa 2m over 3 years
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Seiffert82 »

Zero Tackle reports he's on $750k this season, which is my understanding too: https://www.zerotackle.com/canberra-fac ... rs-119617/

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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Billy Walker »

That’s good value for us this season, but easily argued to be over the odds for some BBC seasons past - on balance about right I’d say.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Finchy »

It's a tough one. On the one hand you look at the Storm and Panthers and say "they can win premierships without overpaying props, so should we". That's true, but they also have something we don't, which is an insanely good spine.

When your spine is all rep-quality (Papenhuyzen, Munster, Hughes, Grant/Smith, or Edwards, Luai, Cleary, Koroisau), you can skimp on paying big money in other positions because they can't afford it, and it's unnecessary for their success.

The Storm are geniuses at turning Neville-nobodies into competent first graders like Bryan Norrie, Josh King, etc, because the glory-boys playing around them have enough brilliance to win you the game nearly every week without the need for a Payne Haas or a Jason Taumalolo in the team.

Spending big money on guys like Haas, Taumalolo, and Fifita has shown to be a big waste if you have a crap spine. Their output may be insanely good (sometimes), but it's not enough to get you the wins. The Broncos and Cowboys learnt this last year and spent big on luring quality halves, and now look how they've climbed up the ladder with Reynolds and Townsend onboard.

Whilst I agree we should also look at this model of spending bigger in spine positions at the expense of spending big money on quality forwards and outside backs, it's not always possible, especially for a team like us. I'm fine with losing Papa and Tapine if we had (or could get) a gun spine like the Storm or Panthers, but we don't, and likely never will. We're running out with Savage, Wighton, Fogarty, and Woolford.

Now, the argument has been made that we don't have a Munster or a Reynolds because we've wasted a tonne of cap space on Croker and Whitehead. I agree they are on massive overs for what they are currently delivering, but I don't believe that even if we had their money to spend, that we would be able to lure a Munster or a Reynolds to Canberra. We tried the "big money" signings back in the day, they don't want to come to Canberra. Their managers just use us to bump up their offers from other clubs. Tedesco. Mansour. Proctor. Waerea-Hargreaves.

Ricky recognised that we needed better quality players, but the "open chequebook" method didn't work. Which is why he switched to recruiting money-ball targets and ESL players. Austin. Leilua. Rapana. Tapine. Hodgson. Whitehead. Williams. Bateman. Elliott. CHN. CNK. Starling. Havili. Baptiste. Etc etc. Some were a bit hit and miss, but we had a lot of success in finding some gems that were either in England or looking for an opportunity stuck at their own clubs (CNK behind RTS, Austin behind Anasta, etc).

I honestly think we won't ever be able to recruit a top-3 fullback, halfback, hooker, even throwing a million+ dollars at them. Because a top 3 spine player can already command a million+ dollars (or close enough to it) that they don't have to relocate to Canberra to get it. Does anyone believe that if we offered 1-1.2 mill to Turbo, Cleary, Munster, Tedesco, etc, that they would come here? They'd take 900k to stay in the city or on a beach somewhere.

So, if we're resigned to never being able to recruit a top-3 spine player, we have 3 options.

1. We need to develop one ourselves (highly unlikely).
2. We need to recruit an overseas player or a junior who becomes world-class (Hodgson, Tapine).
3. We look at running our team differently to the Storm or Panthers, and spend more money than them on forwards and outside backs, in the hope that having more quality spread across the park can overcome a team that only has quality in spine positions. It's unlikely to work, but we got close in 2019.

So on the one hand I think spending close to a million or Tapine is a waste, because despite his world-class output, it's not really influencing results because our spine is so ordinary. He makes metres and tackles well, but the rest of the team struggle to score points or defend.

On the other hand, if we let Papa and Taps go because we don't want to match big offers, I weep to think how much worse our team will be if we can't use their money (and Hodgson's 900K) to get some quality spine players.

Knowing us we'll just waste it on upgrading plodders.

I don't know what the solution is.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Billy Walker »

Finchy wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:46 pm It's a tough one. On the one hand you look at the Storm and Panthers and say "they can win premierships without overpaying props, so should we". That's true, but they also have something we don't, which is an insanely good spine.

When your spine is all rep-quality (Papenhuyzen, Munster, Hughes, Grant/Smith, or Edwards, Luai, Cleary, Koroisau), you can skimp on paying big money in other positions because they can't afford it, and it's unnecessary for their success.

The Storm are geniuses at turning Neville-nobodies into competent first graders like Bryan Norrie, Josh King, etc, because the glory-boys playing around them have enough brilliance to win you the game nearly every week without the need for a Payne Haas or a Jason Taumalolo in the team.

Spending big money on guys like Haas, Taumalolo, and Fifita has shown to be a big waste if you have a crap spine. Their output may be insanely good (sometimes), but it's not enough to get you the wins. The Broncos and Cowboys learnt this last year and spent big on luring quality halves, and now look how they've climbed up the ladder with Reynolds and Townsend onboard.

Whilst I agree we should also look at this model of spending bigger in spine positions at the expense of spending big money on quality forwards and outside backs, it's not always possible, especially for a team like us. I'm fine with losing Papa and Tapine if we had (or could get) a gun spine like the Storm or Panthers, but we don't, and likely never will. We're running out with Savage, Wighton, Fogarty, and Woolford.

Now, the argument has been made that we don't have a Munster or a Reynolds because we've wasted a tonne of cap space on Croker and Whitehead. I agree they are on massive overs for what they are currently delivering, but I don't believe that even if we had their money to spend, that we would be able to lure a Munster or a Reynolds to Canberra. We tried the "big money" signings back in the day, they don't want to come to Canberra. Their managers just use us to bump up their offers from other clubs. Tedesco. Mansour. Proctor. Waerea-Hargreaves.

Ricky recognised that we needed better quality players, but the "open chequebook" method didn't work. Which is why he switched to recruiting money-ball targets and ESL players. Austin. Leilua. Rapana. Tapine. Hodgson. Whitehead. Williams. Bateman. Elliott. CHN. CNK. Starling. Havili. Baptiste. Etc etc. Some were a bit hit and miss, but we had a lot of success in finding some gems that were either in England or looking for an opportunity stuck at their own clubs (CNK behind RTS, Austin behind Anasta, etc).

I honestly think we won't ever be able to recruit a top-3 fullback, halfback, hooker, even throwing a million+ dollars at them. Because a top 3 spine player can already command a million+ dollars (or close enough to it) that they don't have to relocate to Canberra to get it. Does anyone believe that if we offered 1-1.2 mill to Turbo, Cleary, Munster, Tedesco, etc, that they would come here? They'd take 900k to stay in the city or on a beach somewhere.

So, if we're resigned to never being able to recruit a top-3 spine player, we have 3 options.

1. We need to develop one ourselves (highly unlikely).
2. We need to recruit an overseas player or a junior who becomes world-class (Hodgson, Tapine).
3. We look at running our team differently to the Storm or Panthers, and spend more money than them on forwards and outside backs, in the hope that having more quality spread across the park can overcome a team that only has quality in spine positions. It's unlikely to work, but we got close in 2019.

So on the one hand I think spending close to a million or Tapine is a waste, because despite his world-class output, it's not really influencing results because our spine is so ordinary. He makes metres and tackles well, but the rest of the team struggle to score points or defend.

On the other hand, if we let Papa and Taps go because we don't want to match big offers, I weep to think how much worse our team will be if we can't use their money (and Hodgson's 900K) to get some quality spine players.

Knowing us we'll just waste it on upgrading plodders.

I don't know what the solution is.
You start with “it’s a tough one” and end with “I don’t know what the solution is”. Is there a summary version of the rest? :roflmao
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Finchy »

Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:51 pm You start with “it’s a tough one” and end with “I don’t know what the solution is”. Is there a summary version of the rest? :roflmao
TL;DR - Storm and Panthers can underspend on forwards because they have a gun spine and we don't, and never will. We need to spend big on spine players but they won't come here. Wasting big money on Taps is still a waste even if we can't recruit gun spine players, because his output isn't influencing results. No solution to the dilemma.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Crash Ball »

I doubt JFH is on under 500k. If he is he needs a new manager.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Raider Azz »

Finchy wrote:
Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:51 pm You start with “it’s a tough one” and end with “I don’t know what the solution is”. Is there a summary version of the rest? :roflmao
TL;DR - Storm and Panthers can underspend on forwards because they have a gun spine and we don't, and never will. We need to spend big on spine players but they won't come here. Wasting big money on Taps is still a waste even if we can't recruit gun spine players, because his output isn't influencing results. No solution to the dilemma.
Can you summarise the summary?

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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by gangrenous »

Storm, Panthers good spine. Raiders never get. Sad.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Azza »

Season over.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by BadnMean »

Can't win. Don't try. GIO stadium to start serving worms.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Finchy »

We tried. We failed.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Azza »

The lesson is, never try.

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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Billy Walker »

Finchy wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:55 pm
Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:51 pm You start with “it’s a tough one” and end with “I don’t know what the solution is”. Is there a summary version of the rest? :roflmao
TL;DR - Storm and Panthers can underspend on forwards because they have a gun spine and we don't, and never will. We need to spend big on spine players but they won't come here. Wasting big money on Taps is still a waste even if we can't recruit gun spine players, because his output isn't influencing results. No solution to the dilemma.
Why do we think we will never have a gun spine? It’s 4 players. You’d think you could go hard at recruiting 2 of them and hold out for a bit of luck that we luck on the other 2. Also good players make others around them better. Someone like Savage becomes a CV lot better a lot quicker if he has a quality 9 and 7 in the team.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Finchy »

Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 7:02 pm
Finchy wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:55 pm
Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:51 pm You start with “it’s a tough one” and end with “I don’t know what the solution is”. Is there a summary version of the rest? :roflmao
TL;DR - Storm and Panthers can underspend on forwards because they have a gun spine and we don't, and never will. We need to spend big on spine players but they won't come here. Wasting big money on Taps is still a waste even if we can't recruit gun spine players, because his output isn't influencing results. No solution to the dilemma.
Why do we think we will never have a gun spine? It’s 4 players. You’d think you could go hard at recruiting 2 of them and hold out for a bit of luck that we luck on the other 2. Also good players make others around them better. Someone like Savage becomes a CV lot better a lot quicker if he has a quality 9 and 7 in the team.
In short? The Canberra factor. There are other factors, but IMO that’s the biggest issue. If it comes down to earning a million to be a halfback at Canberra or a city/coastal club, we come last every time, even if we offer more $$$
Ata Mariota’s #1 fan. Bless his cotton socks.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by BadnMean »

Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 7:02 pm
Finchy wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:55 pm
Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:51 pm You start with “it’s a tough one” and end with “I don’t know what the solution is”. Is there a summary version of the rest? :roflmao
TL;DR - Storm and Panthers can underspend on forwards because they have a gun spine and we don't, and never will. We need to spend big on spine players but they won't come here. Wasting big money on Taps is still a waste even if we can't recruit gun spine players, because his output isn't influencing results. No solution to the dilemma.
Why do we think we will never have a gun spine? It’s 4 players. You’d think you could go hard at recruiting 2 of them and hold out for a bit of luck that we luck on the other 2. Also good players make others around them better. Someone like Savage becomes a CV lot better a lot quicker if he has a quality 9 and 7 in the team.
I actually think we are only 1 recruit away from a potentially good spine.

Woolford could be the "budget special" playing above his pay grade at #9. (CNK was the budget guy over-delivering in previous years)

Jack is a very, very good running 5/8. With anything else decent around him, Jack can do the business.

Savage is a good attacking weapon. If we are good enough to make some space/opportunities for him, at least we can strike.

We are one good halfback away from a spine that can do something in the biggest games. In past years we had Hodgo, who had some wonderful seasons. We are one good recruit away/or perhaps lightning striking with Savage having a breakout season, which would mean we just need Fogarty to be adequate.

If it's not going to be Savage kicking on, then we have the makings of a good spine, but might need to get in a good half. We're not a million miles away. There must be some halves out there who wouldn't mind playing behind Tarps and Papa and a no frills hooker delivering clean ball regularly, alongside an origin rep willing to do the long boots and hard runs.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Billy Walker »

Finchy wrote: July 2, 2022, 7:21 pm
Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 7:02 pm
Finchy wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:55 pm
Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:51 pm You start with “it’s a tough one” and end with “I don’t know what the solution is”. Is there a summary version of the rest? :roflmao
TL;DR - Storm and Panthers can underspend on forwards because they have a gun spine and we don't, and never will. We need to spend big on spine players but they won't come here. Wasting big money on Taps is still a waste even if we can't recruit gun spine players, because his output isn't influencing results. No solution to the dilemma.
Why do we think we will never have a gun spine? It’s 4 players. You’d think you could go hard at recruiting 2 of them and hold out for a bit of luck that we luck on the other 2. Also good players make others around them better. Someone like Savage becomes a CV lot better a lot quicker if he has a quality 9 and 7 in the team.
In short? The Canberra factor. There are other factors, but IMO that’s the biggest issue. If it comes down to earning a million to be a halfback at Canberra or a city/coastal club, we come last every time, even if we offer more $$$
Hard to believe we once assembled what many consider to be one greatest teams of all time. I think that a defeatist excuse ridden opinion Finchy
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Finchy »

Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 8:16 pm
Finchy wrote: July 2, 2022, 7:21 pm
Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 7:02 pm
Finchy wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:55 pm
Billy Walker wrote: July 2, 2022, 3:51 pm You start with “it’s a tough one” and end with “I don’t know what the solution is”. Is there a summary version of the rest? :roflmao
TL;DR - Storm and Panthers can underspend on forwards because they have a gun spine and we don't, and never will. We need to spend big on spine players but they won't come here. Wasting big money on Taps is still a waste even if we can't recruit gun spine players, because his output isn't influencing results. No solution to the dilemma.
Why do we think we will never have a gun spine? It’s 4 players. You’d think you could go hard at recruiting 2 of them and hold out for a bit of luck that we luck on the other 2. Also good players make others around them better. Someone like Savage becomes a CV lot better a lot quicker if he has a quality 9 and 7 in the team.
In short? The Canberra factor. There are other factors, but IMO that’s the biggest issue. If it comes down to earning a million to be a halfback at Canberra or a city/coastal club, we come last every time, even if we offer more $$$
Hard to believe we once assembled what many consider to be one greatest teams of all time. I think that a defeatist excuse ridden opinion Finchy
Oh it’s 100% a defeatist attitude. I just feel it’s sadly a realistic attitude based on the past 28 years of no premiership and recruiting failures.

I’d love to sign a Turbo, Munster, or Cleary. Won’t happen though. Which is why we have the 3 step approach outlined above.
Ata Mariota’s #1 fan. Bless his cotton socks.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Botman »

It's actually not that hard to square away the idea that we can struggle now despite building arguably the greatest single team of all time in the mid 90's

You just have to have a few brain cells and look at the competition structure then and now and you'll see the fundamental differences between where the league was in the late 80's- early 90's when we got all that talent, and where it is now.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Pete Cash »

The nrl started in 1998. That was more or less 25 years ago. Is this not a large enough sample size for our ability to recruit top names since the introduction of Queensland sides.

It's an obvious fact there is a Canberra tax in recruiting. We can offer massive overs on a young player that might turn out to be good like the knights did ponga (and we did with tapine tbh) or get a guy with an upside who improves in our system like hodgson

But it's proven to be very difficult to sign a proven nrl star like a Munster because the Canberra tax on top of a very large contract has an obvious point of diminishing returns. For both the player (1m to play where they want to live versus 1.1m to play where they dont) and us where we need to pay 1.5m to convince a spine player and it puts us in the one player team category and we still get pumped by Penrith.

Elite players just have way too many options. There are like 50 Sydney clubs for Sydney based players to sign for and not have to leave whatever nice suburb they live in and move the wife and kids.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders move to re-sign Joe Tapine

He's the best prop in the world and the Canberra Raiders are moving to lock Joe Tapine in long-term. Furner's held preliminary talks with Tapine's manager and was keen to keep his star front-rower.

"Of course we want to keep [Tapine] and that's what we'll sit down with his management to talk about shortly. Of course we want him to stay," Furner said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Coastalraider »

I love how we are always on the front foot with these things.

Player finds form in contract year
Other teams notice and start calling
Manager puts player in media spotlight to ramp up interest
Don comes out saying ‘yeah we like him, I’m going to meet his manager soon’

Like clockwork.
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Re: Seven rival clubs circle Raiders prop Joseph Tapine

Post by Billy Walker »

Botman wrote: July 2, 2022, 9:42 pm It's actually not that hard to square away the idea that we can struggle now despite building arguably the greatest single team of all time in the mid 90's

You just have to have a few brain cells and look at the competition structure then and now and you'll see the fundamental differences between where the league was in the late 80's- early 90's when we got all that talent, and where it is now.
So you passionately devote a big chunk of your life supporting an outcome that you don’t believe possible? I think either:

A. Deep down you don’t actually believe your defeatist excuses and know that it actually is possible if the club was smarter. Or

B. You’re really sad dude.
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