Paul Kent on NRL360 in regard to Munster to the Roosters.
“The one club that I just love their ruthless aggression to chase success. They are not happy running fourth.
“Some clubs they get to fourth and it has been a great year and all of the administrators have hit their KPI’s and they all get their bonuses and they are all happy.
“The Roosters are not happy running fourth. They are not happy running third or second. They want to win it every year and they genuinely want to win it.
“They are the only team that are brave enough to say to a bloke at a top four club, mate we are going to move you on because we have got another guy who is maybe five or 10 per cent better, but we are going to bring him in.”
There were times we had the some of the best teams ever to lace a boot so it is possible. Melbourne is hardly an NRL town but it attracts great players. It’s cause an effect - yes we currently only have the ability to attract spuds, but that has all to do with our poor culture and systems. This is a debate most raiders fans run from because of the uncomfortable truths it shows up.
Billy Walker wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 9:27 am
There were times we had the some of the best teams ever to lace a boot so it is possible. Melbourne is hardly an NRL town but it attracts great players. It’s cause an effect - yes we currently only have the ability to attract spuds, but that has all to do with our poor culture and systems. This is a debate most raiders fans run from because of the uncomfortable truths it shows up.
Even after two good years in 2019 and 2020 we didn't have top tier talent banging the door down. Hard to know how much is lack of genuine interest in playing here and how much is lack of ambition from those at the club. One thing you notice with the top teams is they are constantly reinventing themselves - we've effectively been standing pat since 2019 because we made a GF.
We initially recruited very well - from Qld (Mal, Belcher, Walters brothers), the country (like Daley) and had our juniors come up like Clyde and Lazarus, then rugby in Ricky - and what was unique is they were the best players in their era all coming through at the same time, then when the salary cap hit us in 1992, from NZ in 1993 (Sean Hoppe, Lomax, Pongia, Wiki in 1994) and in far flung places like Fiji (Noa). Then in 2015 to 2019 we had the Poms who really made us into a good team albeit not a great one - Hodgson, Whitehead and later Bateman
We had a coach who played to our strengths in attacking football (Sheens)
We need to build from the ground again, recruit a marquee player who people want to play with like Mal, look to the UK, look at rugby prospects, move on from the past by appointing the right coach to replace Ricky (Cameron Smith/Billy Slater/Cooper Cronk step up)
Canberra is too cold, you can’t compete with Nick Politis, nobody wants to come here, the refs hate us, the ACT government is mean to us. If we believe any of that we may as well give it away because we are done before we start. We have a current culture that includes a strong safety net of excuses.
It’s not easy, but the Club, Coach, Players and the local politicians and leaders need to bang on with consistent messaging about how great Canberra is for lifestyle and career development. 4 seasons of weather, like a small European city, none of the frustrating hustle and bustle of our big cities.
I don’t think your average League player can see the benefits of Canberra. A few ex Raiders have mentioned to me how surprised they were at how liveable the city was. Great food and no sitting in traffic jams all day.
LastRaider wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 6:44 am
Paul Kent on NRL360 in regard to Munster to the Roosters.
“The one club that I just love their ruthless aggression to chase success. They are not happy running fourth.
“Some clubs they get to fourth and it has been a great year and all of the administrators have hit their KPI’s and they all get their bonuses and they are all happy.
“The Roosters are not happy running fourth. They are not happy running third or second. They want to win it every year and they genuinely want to win it.
“They are the only team that are brave enough to say to a bloke at a top four club, mate we are going to move you on because we have got another guy who is maybe five or 10 per cent better, but we are going to bring him in.”
Unfortunately we have too many administrators - and for that matter, supporters - who still treat this like a 1970 bush footy club.
Is winning nice? Yes. Is it as important as local juniors coming through and good clubmen getting looked after? Absolutely not.
I've never understood the fans who are obsessed with local juniors and singing players to long term deals because they're good blokes. Why do you care? They aren't your friends. I watch this sport for the enjoyment of the game and that typically comes with high-skill football and - believe it or not - winning football matches.
Far too many are stoked that Croker might get to his 300th even if we get smashed by 50 in each game. Because he's a good local boy and that's what following the Raiders is about. Apparently.
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is just the train that's about to hit you.
LastRaider wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 6:44 am
Paul Kent on NRL360 in regard to Munster to the Roosters.
“The one club that I just love their ruthless aggression to chase success. They are not happy running fourth.
“Some clubs they get to fourth and it has been a great year and all of the administrators have hit their KPI’s and they all get their bonuses and they are all happy.
“The Roosters are not happy running fourth. They are not happy running third or second. They want to win it every year and they genuinely want to win it.
“They are the only team that are brave enough to say to a bloke at a top four club, mate we are going to move you on because we have got another guy who is maybe five or 10 per cent better, but we are going to bring him in.”
Unfortunately we have too many administrators - and for that matter, supporters - who still treat this like a 1970 bush footy club.
Is winning nice? Yes. Is it as important as local juniors coming through and good clubmen getting looked after? Absolutely not.
I've never understood the fans who are obsessed with local juniors and singing players to long term deals because they're good blokes. Why do you care? They aren't your friends. I watch this sport for the enjoyment of the game and that typically comes with high-skill football and - believe it or not - winning football matches.
Far too many are stoked that Croker might get to his 300th even if we get smashed by 50 in each game. Because he's a good local boy and that's what following the Raiders is about. Apparently.
BJ wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 10:56 am
It’s not easy, but the Club, Coach, Players and the local politicians and leaders need to bang on with consistent messaging about how great Canberra is for lifestyle and career development. 4 seasons of weather, like a small European city, none of the frustrating hustle and bustle of our big cities.
I don’t think your average League player can see the benefits of Canberra. A few ex Raiders have mentioned to me how surprised they were at how liveable the city was. Great food and no sitting in traffic jams all day.
Canberra is such a nice place. I came down to study from the country (Hunter Valley) and after my first year could have moved to Sydney to study there in the best uni for my area and more prestigious, but decided to stay. I like the mix of country people, down to earth, it's the friends you make as well. Really nice restaurants and things to do, great outdoors, loved running, great to bring up kids (although I didn't have any at the time). People focus on the cold weather but I actually like the 4 seasons. We really need the players to promote the city but the best promotion is having a coach that players wish to join and play for and a team that can challenge. We don't have either.
I keep thinking about Hynes this year at Cronulla. He was the best half option on the market last year and we needed one. He is being paid $600k a season, we should have been there at $800k a season and told Hodgo to go to Brisbane a year early.
Instead we make these conservative and what seams like eternity decisions to recruit 2nd grade players!
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Last edited by LastRaider on May 12, 2022, 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LastRaider wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 12:51 pm
I keep thinking about Hynes this year at Cronulla. He was the best half option on the market last year and we needed one. He is being paid $600k a season, we should have been there at $800k a season and told Hodgo to go to Brisbane a year early.
Instead we make these conservative and what seams like eternity, to make decisions to recruit 2nd grade players!
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It’s ok mate. We are going to upgrade and extend the NRL’s greatest redemption story, should get us some goodwill. And you can rest easy knowing our back up hooker position is sorted for the next few years
I feel like after 2019 we tried to be ruthless. Goodbye to Sezer and Joey. It just doesn’t work and we don’t have that freedom.
We need to keep recruiting from England. That avenue got a bit fried with the fallouts from Williams and Bateman, I blame mainly covid for that and we should have handled it better, but it’s not too late. The cold is in their blood and it isn’t a turn off for them, they also just want the opportunity to play.
I think as a base we need to develop kids from England like Rushton and Sutton, and also kids from the Canberra, Riverina, South Coast and Southern Tablelands. As much as our QLD contingent was important back in the day, it’s insane that there were 4 (?) hall of famers from the area that came through to add to that, being Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde.
Robert the Bruce wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 1:21 pm
I feel like after 2019 we tried to be ruthless. Goodbye to Sezer and Joey. It just doesn’t work and we don’t have that freedom.
We need to keep recruiting from England. That avenue got a bit fried with the fallouts from Williams and Bateman, I blame mainly covid for that and we should have handled it better, but it’s not too late. The cold is in their blood and it isn’t a turn off for them, they also just want the opportunity to play.
I think as a base we need to develop kids from England like Rushton and Sutton, and also kids from the Canberra, Riverina, South Coast and Southern Tablelands. As much as our QLD contingent was important back in the day, it’s insane that there were 4 (?) hall of famers from the area that came through to add to that, being Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde.
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Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde were also young kids that easily could have ended up on a roof drinking cruisers if there weren’t strong systems, guidance and culture around them. It’s not like there hasn’t been plenty of talented young players since then but we certainly didn’t get the best out of many of them.
zim wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 3:07 pm
Hynes moved to Cronulla for the lifestyle as well. Always nice to regret not signing players that never wanted to come here in the first place.
There isn’t a lot of lifestyle working in the mines but if the pay is right people line up to do it.
zim wrote:Hynes moved to Cronulla for the lifestyle as well. Always nice to regret not signing players that never wanted to come here in the first place.
Exactly.
We should have signed Sam Walker too, but that was equally not an option.
I agree Hynes is a surfie who wanted the Shire life, but at the very least if we'd offered 800 and they were offering 600 he'd have had a long think about it.
Money does funny things to people.
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is just the train that's about to hit you.
Ongoing rinse and repeat of opinions here. So glad we can open a new thread every week to discuss the same things. I asume everybody is doing a cut and paste from previous posts.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Ongoing rinse and repeat of opinions here. So glad we can open a new thread every week to discuss the same things. I asume everybody is doing a cut and paste from previous posts.
To be able to be that ruthless, you have to be able to acquire that guy who is better.
If you cant do that, you have to gamble, which is what we do, on Union players, on guys at the fringe of depth charts, on Poms.
Robert the Bruce wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 1:21 pm
I feel like after 2019 we tried to be ruthless. Goodbye to Sezer and Joey. It just doesn’t work and we don’t have that freedom.
We need to keep recruiting from England. That avenue got a bit fried with the fallouts from Williams and Bateman, I blame mainly covid for that and we should have handled it better, but it’s not too late. The cold is in their blood and it isn’t a turn off for them, they also just want the opportunity to play.
I think as a base we need to develop kids from England like Rushton and Sutton, and also kids from the Canberra, Riverina, South Coast and Southern Tablelands. As much as our QLD contingent was important back in the day, it’s insane that there were 4 (?) hall of famers from the area that came through to add to that, being Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde.
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Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde were also young kids that easily could have ended up on a roof drinking cruisers if there weren’t strong systems, guidance and culture around them. It’s not like there hasn’t been plenty of talented young players since then but we certainly didn’t get the best out of many of them.
OK, let's be crystal clear here.
I can name half a dozen players from that era who repeatedly did far worse things than get busted DUI, piss on someone in a pub toilet or drink cruisers on the rooftop, compared to anything that happened over the past 20 years.
The difference is a) no social media back then and b) we were one of the best teams in the comp so nobody gave a rat's ass.
Robert the Bruce wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 1:21 pm
I feel like after 2019 we tried to be ruthless. Goodbye to Sezer and Joey. It just doesn’t work and we don’t have that freedom.
We need to keep recruiting from England. That avenue got a bit fried with the fallouts from Williams and Bateman, I blame mainly covid for that and we should have handled it better, but it’s not too late. The cold is in their blood and it isn’t a turn off for them, they also just want the opportunity to play.
I think as a base we need to develop kids from England like Rushton and Sutton, and also kids from the Canberra, Riverina, South Coast and Southern Tablelands. As much as our QLD contingent was important back in the day, it’s insane that there were 4 (?) hall of famers from the area that came through to add to that, being Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde.
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Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde were also young kids that easily could have ended up on a roof drinking cruisers if there weren’t strong systems, guidance and culture around them. It’s not like there hasn’t been plenty of talented young players since then but we certainly didn’t get the best out of many of them.
OK, let's be crystal clear here.
I can name half a dozen players from that era who repeatedly did far worse things than get busted DUI, piss on someone in a pub toilet or drink cruisers on the rooftop, compared to anything that happened over the past 20 years.
The difference is a) no social media back then and b) we were one of the best teams in the comp so nobody gave a rat's ass.
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Seiff - reading over your comments on this thread you seem to be of the fairly strong view that we are on a plotted path we have no real control over and you seem ok with the path that will take us. I think you are the type of supporter that Ricky Stuart values highly.
I’m not as convinced we need to be resigned to eternal mediocrity and haven’t given up hope of seeing the team win more premierships.
Roosters are ruthless because they can afford to be.
The only way we could ever attain such a status where we can afford to be that ruthless is if we have an elite coach, rock solid structures and culture, and a have developed a pedigree of winning and success.
We have absolutely none of those things.
Now in saying that, there are still levels to this thing.
You don't need to be Roosters-level ruthless to still be able to make the hard decisions where appropriate.
We refuse to make the hard decision - and then slap an extra 3 years on it for good measure.
LastRaider wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 12:51 pm
I keep thinking about Hynes this year at Cronulla. He was the best half option on the market last year and we needed one. He is being paid $600k a season, we should have been there at $800k a season and told Hodgo to go to Brisbane a year early.
Instead we make these conservative and what seams like eternity, to make decisions to recruit 2nd grade players!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s ok mate. We are going to upgrade and extend the NRL’s greatest redemption story, should get us some goodwill. And you can rest easy knowing our back up hooker position is sorted for the next few years
Robert the Bruce wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 1:21 pm
I feel like after 2019 we tried to be ruthless. Goodbye to Sezer and Joey. It just doesn’t work and we don’t have that freedom.
We need to keep recruiting from England. That avenue got a bit fried with the fallouts from Williams and Bateman, I blame mainly covid for that and we should have handled it better, but it’s not too late. The cold is in their blood and it isn’t a turn off for them, they also just want the opportunity to play.
I think as a base we need to develop kids from England like Rushton and Sutton, and also kids from the Canberra, Riverina, South Coast and Southern Tablelands. As much as our QLD contingent was important back in the day, it’s insane that there were 4 (?) hall of famers from the area that came through to add to that, being Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde were also young kids that easily could have ended up on a roof drinking cruisers if there weren’t strong systems, guidance and culture around them. It’s not like there hasn’t been plenty of talented young players since then but we certainly didn’t get the best out of many of them.
I remember after a Tooheys Challenge pre season game in the 90’s at about midnight we had Clyde riding a skateboard on his **** down my mates driveway holding a beer. So I can definitely agree that the potential was there for a cruiser incident back then!
Robert the Bruce wrote: ↑May 12, 2022, 1:21 pm
I feel like after 2019 we tried to be ruthless. Goodbye to Sezer and Joey. It just doesn’t work and we don’t have that freedom.
We need to keep recruiting from England. That avenue got a bit fried with the fallouts from Williams and Bateman, I blame mainly covid for that and we should have handled it better, but it’s not too late. The cold is in their blood and it isn’t a turn off for them, they also just want the opportunity to play.
I think as a base we need to develop kids from England like Rushton and Sutton, and also kids from the Canberra, Riverina, South Coast and Southern Tablelands. As much as our QLD contingent was important back in the day, it’s insane that there were 4 (?) hall of famers from the area that came through to add to that, being Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Daley, Stuart, Lazarus and Clyde were also young kids that easily could have ended up on a roof drinking cruisers if there weren’t strong systems, guidance and culture around them. It’s not like there hasn’t been plenty of talented young players since then but we certainly didn’t get the best out of many of them.
I remember after a Tooheys Challenge pre season game in the 90’s at about midnight we had Clyde riding a skateboard on his **** down my mates driveway holding a beer. So I can definitely agree that the potential was there for a cruiser incident back then!
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I’d argue no chance of a cruiser incident back then on two grounds:
(1) the Asahi website informs me that Vodka cruisers only became a thing in the year 2000 - so there is that.
(2) we were real men in the 90’s, so while hypothetically Clydey could have found himself embroiled in a west coast cooler incident, I think it is far more likely he was on the beers or spirits like a real man. And as we all know nothing bad ever comes from a night on the beer and spirits!
We don't have to become one of the most despised teams in the comp to be successful, we just need to be better in many many ways. Screwing over your players that have helped you win premierships isn't something I want our club to do.
zim wrote:Ongoing rinse and repeat of opinions here. So glad we can open a new thread every week to discuss the same things. I asume everybody is doing a cut and paste from previous posts.
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.
Nickman's love of NSW
NSW has done a superb job - 18/12/2020
NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. - 04/02/2021
Acknowledging Canberra faces additional challenges in bringing in players does not mean you don’t want the club to strive and try and work around them. Pretending they don’t exist is silly.
Saying just throw extra money at them does not work when the clubs you’re competing with have the same cap, and higher TPAs.
