2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
0
No votes
Raiders 1-12
2
15%
Draw
1
8%
Panthers 1-12
0
No votes
Panthers 13+
10
77%
 
Total votes: 13

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Seiffert82
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

BadnMean wrote:
gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2022, 11:29 am
RedRaider wrote:BJ, I take your point but I don't know that a player being off the ground but held so that he does not breech the horizontal is going to warrant a Ref to call held. The key for us is to use the same tactic more often. Make it a team goal to first lock up the football and then carry opposition ball carriers backwards. Get every player on board. It is no surprise that by using this tactic the Panthers had the best defensive record in the NRL last year and again have the lowest points against so far this year.
Umm folks… as soon as you lift a player off the ground it’s automatically held.

That’s why there was the ‘early’ call on CHN, the player was lifted and that was then held.

Refs need to make sure they’re not allowing teams to keep driving players back after lifting, which I’d say the Panthers got too much leeway with last night.
Watching that game you would assume lifting and then carrying is perfectly allowed well after making contact and stopping momentum.
This has crept into the game over the past few seasons. It's an obvious tactic, it sucks and shouldn't be allowed.

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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Does thinking back to when you were a child make you feel 6 again?
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Lui_Bon »

Azza wrote: April 25, 2022, 6:04 pm The scary thing is if we hadn't trained with puffy pants during the week we'd probably have got lapped by 60.
we clearly need full-body puffy suits. Or at the very least some sumo training!
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Lui_Bon »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 25, 2022, 8:09 pm
BadnMean wrote:
gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2022, 11:29 am
RedRaider wrote:BJ, I take your point but I don't know that a player being off the ground but held so that he does not breech the horizontal is going to warrant a Ref to call held. The key for us is to use the same tactic more often. Make it a team goal to first lock up the football and then carry opposition ball carriers backwards. Get every player on board. It is no surprise that by using this tactic the Panthers had the best defensive record in the NRL last year and again have the lowest points against so far this year.
Umm folks… as soon as you lift a player off the ground it’s automatically held.

That’s why there was the ‘early’ call on CHN, the player was lifted and that was then held.

Refs need to make sure they’re not allowing teams to keep driving players back after lifting, which I’d say the Panthers got too much leeway with last night.
Watching that game you would assume lifting and then carrying is perfectly allowed well after making contact and stopping momentum.
This has crept into the game over the past few seasons. It's an obvious tactic, it sucks and shouldn't be allowed.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk
The entire argument makes me wonder why ref's don't call "held" sooner. Yes, I get that the late offload is a thing, but I do wonder if the whole game wouldn't be better if we stopped caring about that and instead thought about how the long upright wrestle lets a third or even fourth defender kill some poor bugger's legs. Or everything else rubbish that comes about (like ball stripping, niggle and general spectator boredom) because the ref allows the wrestle in the tackle to go on for far too long. Have a look at the so-called golden age of footy from the 90s, and the tackles don't go on for nearly as long. Players knew when they were held, and they go up and played the ball. Because the ref didn't allow such a long time between first contact and calling "held".
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

gangrenous wrote:Does thinking back to when you were a child make you feel 6 again?
Nice!

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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

Lui_Bon wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: April 25, 2022, 8:09 pm
BadnMean wrote:
gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2022, 11:29 am
RedRaider wrote:BJ, I take your point but I don't know that a player being off the ground but held so that he does not breech the horizontal is going to warrant a Ref to call held. The key for us is to use the same tactic more often. Make it a team goal to first lock up the football and then carry opposition ball carriers backwards. Get every player on board. It is no surprise that by using this tactic the Panthers had the best defensive record in the NRL last year and again have the lowest points against so far this year.
Umm folks… as soon as you lift a player off the ground it’s automatically held.

That’s why there was the ‘early’ call on CHN, the player was lifted and that was then held.

Refs need to make sure they’re not allowing teams to keep driving players back after lifting, which I’d say the Panthers got too much leeway with last night.
Watching that game you would assume lifting and then carrying is perfectly allowed well after making contact and stopping momentum.
This has crept into the game over the past few seasons. It's an obvious tactic, it sucks and shouldn't be allowed.

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The entire argument makes me wonder why ref's don't call "held" sooner. Yes, I get that the late offload is a thing, but I do wonder if the whole game wouldn't be better if we stopped caring about that and instead thought about how the long upright wrestle lets a third or even fourth defender kill some poor bugger's legs. Or everything else rubbish that comes about (like ball stripping, niggle and general spectator boredom) because the ref allows the wrestle in the tackle to go on for far too long. Have a look at the so-called golden age of footy from the 90s, and the tackles don't go on for nearly as long. Players knew when they were held, and they go up and played the ball. Because the ref didn't allow such a long time between first contact and calling "held".
Yeah, the tactic to hold the player up and get numbers into the tackle has taken over the wrestle, but is obviously less dangerous, so not many are blowing up about it.

Some teams obviously do it better than others. The NRL don't seem to bothered about it, but they should be looking at it if they want to speed the game up.

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Re: 2022 Rd 8 V Warriors: Teams and Previews

Post by Billy Walker »

Not a great look from Cory, but a nicely worded seemingly very genuine apology.

Raiders star apologises for chewing gum, blowing bubbles during Last Post in Anzac clash



Canberra Raiders star Corey Horsburgh has apologised after he was filmed blowing bubbles while chewing gum as the Last Post played before kick-off against the Panthers.

Read more: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/raide ... 74f8f37d6c

Canberra Raiders prop Corey Horsburgh issues apology after Anzac Day faux pas in Penrith Panthers clash

Canberra Raiders prop Corey Horsburgh has issued an apology for chewing gum during the pre-game Anzac ceremony on the weekend. Images emerged of Horsburgh chewing gum and blowing bubbles when the Raiders and Penrith Panthers players were lined up at Penrith Stadium on Sunday.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14280

Raiders star apologises for chewing gum, blowing bubbles during Last Post in Anzac clash: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... c518214c8c
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Re: 2022 Rd 8 V Warriors: Teams and Previews

Post by Raider Azz »

Billy Walker wrote: April 26, 2022, 12:34 pm Not a great look from Cory, but a nicely worded seemingly very genuine apology.

Raiders star apologises for chewing gum, blowing bubbles during Last Post in Anzac clash



Canberra Raiders star Corey Horsburgh has apologised after he was filmed blowing bubbles while chewing gum as the Last Post played before kick-off against the Panthers.

Read more: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/raide ... 74f8f37d6c
Talk about a non story
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Billy Walker »

Maybe. It doesn’t show the greatest judgement on his behalf, and I could see how it might cause offence. I think his well worded apology has taken the heat out of it and made it a non-story, so hopefully lesson learned and move on.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by -PJ- »

8 weeks.
3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment..Old Faithful
#emptythetank :shock:
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Toviii »

Raider Azz wrote:
Billy Walker wrote: April 26, 2022, 12:34 pm Not a great look from Cory, but a nicely worded seemingly very genuine apology.

Raiders star apologises for chewing gum, blowing bubbles during Last Post in Anzac clash



Canberra Raiders star Corey Horsburgh has apologised after he was filmed blowing bubbles while chewing gum as the Last Post played before kick-off against the Panthers.

Read more: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/raide ... 74f8f37d6c
Talk about a non story
Exactly, who cares
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Johno »

Lui_Bon wrote: April 25, 2022, 10:40 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: April 25, 2022, 8:09 pm
BadnMean wrote:
gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2022, 11:29 am
RedRaider wrote:BJ, I take your point but I don't know that a player being off the ground but held so that he does not breech the horizontal is going to warrant a Ref to call held. The key for us is to use the same tactic more often. Make it a team goal to first lock up the football and then carry opposition ball carriers backwards. Get every player on board. It is no surprise that by using this tactic the Panthers had the best defensive record in the NRL last year and again have the lowest points against so far this year.
Umm folks… as soon as you lift a player off the ground it’s automatically held.

That’s why there was the ‘early’ call on CHN, the player was lifted and that was then held.

Refs need to make sure they’re not allowing teams to keep driving players back after lifting, which I’d say the Panthers got too much leeway with last night.
Watching that game you would assume lifting and then carrying is perfectly allowed well after making contact and stopping momentum.
This has crept into the game over the past few seasons. It's an obvious tactic, it sucks and shouldn't be allowed.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk
The entire argument makes me wonder why ref's don't call "held" sooner. Yes, I get that the late offload is a thing, but I do wonder if the whole game wouldn't be better if we stopped caring about that and instead thought about how the long upright wrestle lets a third or even fourth defender kill some poor bugger's legs. Or everything else rubbish that comes about (like ball stripping, niggle and general spectator boredom) because the ref allows the wrestle in the tackle to go on for far too long. Have a look at the so-called golden age of footy from the 90s, and the tackles don't go on for nearly as long. Players knew when they were held, and they go up and played the ball. Because the ref didn't allow such a long time between first contact and calling "held".
Then you have the time between the held call and the players releasing the attacking player.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by RedRaider »

gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2022, 3:39 pm
RedRaider wrote:
gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2022, 1:33 pm
RedRaider wrote:
gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2022, 11:29 am
Umm folks… as soon as you lift a player off the ground it’s automatically held.

That’s why there was the ‘early’ call on CHN, the player was lifted and that was then held.

Refs need to make sure they’re not allowing teams to keep driving players back after lifting, which I’d say the Panthers got too much leeway with last night.
That's not quite right gangrenous.
Under the Laws of the Game:
Tackle and Play the Ball
Notes:
Moving tackled 2. (a) Where opponents do not make a tackle effective in the
player quickest possible manner but attempt to push, pull or
carry the player in possession, it is permissible for
colleagues of the tackled player to lend their weight in
order to avoid losing ground. Immediately this happens
the referee should call “Held”.

So it takes a team mate to support the ball carrier being carried before the Ref calls 'Held'.
Actually it is right:

“succumb includes a player in possession being lifted off the ground and resulting in the calling of held by the Referee”

https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operatio ... s_2020.pdf

It’s that way to stop you just picking up players and carrying them over sidelines or back into the in-goal etc. as well as just carting them back 5m generally. The rule you’ve cited is to do with what happens when a defending team mate comes into the picture.
It's got to be called 'held' by the referee. That needs a Raiders player to support the ball carrier. As we have seen over recent years the mere lifting/carrying of a player does not result in the immediate call of held.
https://www.rugby-league.com/governance ... f-the-game
I’m sorry, you’re wrong. If they lift the player from the ground the ref is to call held as per the rule I quoted. It’s got nothing to do with another attacking player.
And yet we are seeing instances of the players being lifted and carried backwards and no call of 'held' by the referee. The Panthers have been using this defensive tactic and not being called by the Refs. I have been trying to make some sense of it so went to the Laws of the Game to try to find a reason and in the Laws of the Game there is a note on another attacking player needing to be in contact before the Ref will call held. I quoted the Laws of the Game "Tackle and Play the Ball" because to me it gives a reason why the Refs are not calling 'held' each time a tackled player is lifted. Eg Harry Rushton towards the end of the Panthers match.
https://www.rugby-league.com/governance ... f-the-game
Last edited by RedRaider on April 27, 2022, 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Fox Sports power rankings

12. RAIDERS
Last week’s ranking: 11th (down one spot)

The Raiders find themselves in second last place on the ladder after their fourth loss in a row. Ricky Stuart believes his side played the best 50 minutes of the season, but unfortunately it was against the undefeated Panthers who stormed home 36-6 in the second half. Stuart was happy with his changes including Jordan Rapana at fullback and Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad on the bench, but there is still a massive gulf in class between the Raiders and the competition heavyweights. If the Raiders can’t beat the Warriors coming off a 70-10 drubbing, they can kiss their season goodbye and a wooden spoon might not be out of the realms of possibility.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... e887f36ca5

They seriously think there’s four teams going worse?
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Toviii »

Bulldogs, Knights, Warriors and Titans you could all make a case for
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

BJ, I’m not sure what drugs you’re on, but that foot in the air above the red 20m line is clearly a panthers’ players’s foot... it’s even pointing back towards the tryline!

And I want some.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Begbie »

Toviii wrote: April 26, 2022, 2:20 pm
Raider Azz wrote:
Billy Walker wrote: April 26, 2022, 12:34 pm Not a great look from Cory, but a nicely worded seemingly very genuine apology.

Raiders star apologises for chewing gum, blowing bubbles during Last Post in Anzac clash



Canberra Raiders star Corey Horsburgh has apologised after he was filmed blowing bubbles while chewing gum as the Last Post played before kick-off against the Panthers.

Read more: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/raide ... 74f8f37d6c
Talk about a non story
Exactly, who cares
Apparently the real truth is that Corey mis-understood Peter V'landis when he mentioned that there is a chance we may go back to playing in a bubble.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by BJ »

The Nickman wrote:BJ, I’m not sure what drugs you’re on, but that foot in the air above the red 20m line is clearly a panthers’ players’s foot... it’s even pointing back towards the tryline!

And I want some.
No absolutely wrong! Obviously the screenshot isn’t making the screen capture clear for some people.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Botman »

BJ wrote: April 27, 2022, 9:29 pm
The Nickman wrote:BJ, I’m not sure what drugs you’re on, but that foot in the air above the red 20m line is clearly a panthers’ players’s foot... it’s even pointing back towards the tryline!

And I want some.
No absolutely wrong! Obviously the screenshot isn’t making the screen capture clear for some people.
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psst... it might be you. ;) :P
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by BJ »

Maybe another screen cap I took the other day might better help show the point which shows Papa’s foot hitting and digging up the turf through the heal of his boot as it comes down. Now just over the red line and you can see the Panthers number 8 is now another step to the right.

Rushton feet in the air is a much clearer example of Panthers lifting.

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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

His foot is still on the ground there, m8. Is... is this a bit?

Ok, you got me!
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by gerg »

The only way to solve this serious issue is for the players to also wear their jersey numbers on every piece of clothing, and of course their shoes.
Shoving it in your face since 2017
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by BJ »

gergreg wrote:The only way to solve this serious issue is for the players to also wear their jersey numbers on every piece of clothing, and of course their shoes.
Geez I hate the players wearing boots the same colour as the ball. I’m convinced a last minute try by the Titans a number of years ago, was because the Touchie saw a flash of white planted inside the try line that was actually a players boot and not the ball. The video ref couldn’t make a call because the ball was impossible to see from the available angles.

You can’t blame the Touchie who has a millisecond to try and determine if it’s a white ball, a white boot or a white painted line on the grass.

Maybe Raiders should all wear boots that have an image of a ball being planted for a try. Hey it’s a more innovative attacking game plan than the current coach has come up with this season.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Finchy »

Surprised Cleary didn't get suspended for this one. Direct contact to the head.

In fact, where's the caption contest when you need one?

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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

NRL CEO Andrew Abdo joins Penrith Panthers in dig at Canberra Raiders' Viking clap



August 6. The Canberra Raiders should send a special invite to NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo for the night. Just to remind him of where the Viking clap was born and bred - and still resides. Yesterday Andrew Abdo reportedly made this statement: "It's great to be in Penrith today - the home of the Viking clap."

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

Ill advised if true.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by RedRaider »

gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2022, 3:39 pm
RedRaider wrote:
gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2022, 1:33 pm
RedRaider wrote:
gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2022, 11:29 am
Umm folks… as soon as you lift a player off the ground it’s automatically held.

That’s why there was the ‘early’ call on CHN, the player was lifted and that was then held.

Refs need to make sure they’re not allowing teams to keep driving players back after lifting, which I’d say the Panthers got too much leeway with last night.
That's not quite right gangrenous.
Under the Laws of the Game:
Tackle and Play the Ball
Notes:
Moving tackled 2. (a) Where opponents do not make a tackle effective in the
player quickest possible manner but attempt to push, pull or
carry the player in possession, it is permissible for
colleagues of the tackled player to lend their weight in
order to avoid losing ground. Immediately this happens
the referee should call “Held”.

So it takes a team mate to support the ball carrier being carried before the Ref calls 'Held'.
Actually it is right:

“succumb includes a player in possession being lifted off the ground and resulting in the calling of held by the Referee”

https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operatio ... s_2020.pdf

It’s that way to stop you just picking up players and carrying them over sidelines or back into the in-goal etc. as well as just carting them back 5m generally. The rule you’ve cited is to do with what happens when a defending team mate comes into the picture.
It's got to be called 'held' by the referee. That needs a Raiders player to support the ball carrier. As we have seen over recent years the mere lifting/carrying of a player does not result in the immediate call of held.
https://www.rugby-league.com/governance ... f-the-game
I’m sorry, you’re wrong. If they lift the player from the ground the ref is to call held as per the rule I quoted. It’s got nothing to do with another attacking player.
I am quoting from the Laws of the Game, gangrenous. I note the author of the document you are quoting, Graham Annesley, has said in the introduction:
"This document is intended to provide
explanatory notes relating to the most
commonly scrutinised rules in the Telstra
Premiership, and the on-field interpretations
to be adopted by NRL match officials.
It does not deal with every aspect of the laws
of the game and should not be considered
a comprehensive summary of all situations

match officials may be confronted with
during the course of the 2020 season. "

Anyways, I hope the Refs do start calling 'held' for tackles on players where both feet are lifted off the ground because of the potential for injury to the player being 'carried'.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

You stewed on this all week and then tried to find any weak scrap of excuse to defend your incorrect stance instead of just admitting you were wrong?
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by RedRaider »

No stewing required. Back from holidays on Wednesday and flat out at work. I don't write the Laws of the Game. I read them.
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2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Wrong in black and white, GE very clearly explained the rule for you, and still can’t bring yourself to admit it.

Just sad.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by RedRaider »

It is not personal for me gangrenous. I am quoting the written Laws of the Game, under Tackle and Play the Ball.

"Moving tackled player 2. (a) Where opponents do not make a tackle effective in the quickest possible manner but attempt to push, pull or carry the player in possession, it is permissible for colleagues of the tackled player to lend their weight in order to avoid losing ground. Immediately this happens the referee should call “Held”."
https://www.rugby-league.com/governance ... f-the-game

I won't say anymore on the matter as I think it is clear from the quote what the rule is. I trust you have a great day gangrenous.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Seems pretty black and white to me, too
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

It clearly is personal for you. You cannot admit that what I said was correct and just keep throwing up irrelevant passages.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

RedRaider wrote: May 1, 2022, 12:23 pm It is not personal for me gangrenous. I am quoting the written Laws of the Game, under Tackle and Play the Ball.

"Moving tackled player 2. (a) Where opponents do not make a tackle effective in the quickest possible manner but attempt to push, pull or carry the player in possession, it is permissible for colleagues of the tackled player to lend their weight in order to avoid losing ground. Immediately this happens the referee should call “Held”."
https://www.rugby-league.com/governance ... f-the-game

I won't say anymore on the matter as I think it is clear from the quote what the rule is. I trust you have a great day gangrenous.
To be clear, I wasn't contesting that that's the rule for that situation. But I was also pointing out that as soon as a tackled player has both feet lifted off the ground, the referee must immediately call held then, too. There can be no driving a player backwards or over the sideline with both feet in the air.
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Re: 2022 Rd 7 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Which was precisely my original point that RedRaider tried to correct me on through this rule for another situation.
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