Yep I’m all for playing the kids this year to see what we have. Obviously can’t throw them to the wolves and need to ensure there is structure and experience around them but I’m happy to see us take a more aggressive approach to bringing along generation next at the expense of some older players.RedRaider wrote: ↑April 28, 2022, 8:07 pmBilly, it was only a few years ago we recruited Hodgo, BJ, Bateman and CNK and became a genuine contender. Sadly age, attitude, form and injury have brought that side to its' current state.Billy Walker wrote: ↑April 28, 2022, 6:51 pmRed - it’s a bit of a sad state of affairs when it could be argued that even if you added the best fullback, centre, hooker and second rower in the comp to this current team it would likely only guarantee you a spot in the 8 but still not give you confidence the other players around them give you any premiership certainty.
Imo we need to give the young blokes a long run in FG so that an assessment can be made to recruit where we have gaps. With the likes of Hodgo and Williams gone next year there will be opportunity to fill some gaps.
Recruitment and retention
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- Laurie Daley
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Re: Recruitment and retention
Re: Recruitment and retention
We haven’t adequately covered the losses of BJ, Bateman, G Williams. The age and form regression of Croker, Whitehead, Cotric, CNK adds to their losses. There’s not much coming through the lower grades. We need to rebuild and recruit some moneyball options.
Find the best fullback/halfback/centre/hooker/backrower that’s stuck behind rep players and can’t get a run. Who’s stuck behind Cleary and Luai? Who’s stuck behind Harry Grant and Brandon Smith? Find the best juniors in the Penrith/Storm systems that can’t get a look in.
They may not pay off long term but it’s worth a shot. Austin was stuck behind Anasta at Wests, and was carving up lower grades. Only got a shot there when injury struck. CNK was stuck behind RTS at NZ. Only got a shot when injury struck. These are our targets. We can’t realistically buy a Munster or Haas.
Find the best fullback/halfback/centre/hooker/backrower that’s stuck behind rep players and can’t get a run. Who’s stuck behind Cleary and Luai? Who’s stuck behind Harry Grant and Brandon Smith? Find the best juniors in the Penrith/Storm systems that can’t get a look in.
They may not pay off long term but it’s worth a shot. Austin was stuck behind Anasta at Wests, and was carving up lower grades. Only got a shot there when injury struck. CNK was stuck behind RTS at NZ. Only got a shot when injury struck. These are our targets. We can’t realistically buy a Munster or Haas.
Ata Mariota’s #1 fan. Bless his cotton socks.
Re: Recruitment and retention
100% agree Finchy
We shouldnt and realistically can not target the top end, we cant pay them enough to come here
What we can do is offer good money for talented played roadblocked in good teams. I suggested a couple of years ago when i saw CNK was not where the game was headed that we should have gone in on Izack Tago. He was a highly rated fullback and at the time he was behind Edwards, Crichton brothers, Staines, Momovovski, To'o, May, Burton for outside backs
And we should still enquire now! He's a natural fullback having to play centre. History tells us he'll eventually want to move to a more important position. If Savage isnt our fullback of the future, Tago is the type of dart i'd like to throw
We shouldnt and realistically can not target the top end, we cant pay them enough to come here
What we can do is offer good money for talented played roadblocked in good teams. I suggested a couple of years ago when i saw CNK was not where the game was headed that we should have gone in on Izack Tago. He was a highly rated fullback and at the time he was behind Edwards, Crichton brothers, Staines, Momovovski, To'o, May, Burton for outside backs
And we should still enquire now! He's a natural fullback having to play centre. History tells us he'll eventually want to move to a more important position. If Savage isnt our fullback of the future, Tago is the type of dart i'd like to throw
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- Laurie Daley
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Re: Recruitment and retention
Yep - but the only thing I’d add is that this approach will have a hit and miss success rate. On this path we need to churn and burn players quickly. Don’t spend 3 years easing someone into first grade only to find they are barely to standard and then persist with them for 3 more years hoping they will turn it around. Fail fast move on and find winners.Finchy wrote: ↑April 28, 2022, 8:39 pm We haven’t adequately covered the losses of BJ, Bateman, G Williams. The age and form regression of Croker, Whitehead, Cotric, CNK adds to their losses. There’s not much coming through the lower grades. We need to rebuild and recruit some moneyball options.
Find the best fullback/halfback/centre/hooker/backrower that’s stuck behind rep players and can’t get a run. Who’s stuck behind Cleary and Luai? Who’s stuck behind Harry Grant and Brandon Smith? Find the best juniors in the Penrith/Storm systems that can’t get a look in.
They may not pay off long term but it’s worth a shot. Austin was stuck behind Anasta at Wests, and was carving up lower grades. Only got a shot there when injury struck. CNK was stuck behind RTS at NZ. Only got a shot when injury struck. These are our targets. We can’t realistically buy a Munster or Haas.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: Recruitment and retention
So don’t do what they’re currently doing with Semi?Billy Walker wrote:Yep - but the only thing I’d add is that this approach will have a hit and miss success rate. On this path we need to churn and burn players quickly. Don’t spend 3 years easing someone into first grade only to find they are barely to standard and then persist with them for 3 more years hoping they will turn it around. Fail fast move on and find winners.Finchy wrote: ↑April 28, 2022, 8:39 pm We haven’t adequately covered the losses of BJ, Bateman, G Williams. The age and form regression of Croker, Whitehead, Cotric, CNK adds to their losses. There’s not much coming through the lower grades. We need to rebuild and recruit some moneyball options.
Find the best fullback/halfback/centre/hooker/backrower that’s stuck behind rep players and can’t get a run. Who’s stuck behind Cleary and Luai? Who’s stuck behind Harry Grant and Brandon Smith? Find the best juniors in the Penrith/Storm systems that can’t get a look in.
They may not pay off long term but it’s worth a shot. Austin was stuck behind Anasta at Wests, and was carving up lower grades. Only got a shot there when injury struck. CNK was stuck behind RTS at NZ. Only got a shot when injury struck. These are our targets. We can’t realistically buy a Munster or Haas.
Re: Recruitment and retention
Looks more a centre and second rower than a fullback to me.Botman wrote: ↑April 28, 2022, 10:12 pm 100% agree Finchy
We shouldnt and realistically can not target the top end, we cant pay them enough to come here
What we can do is offer good money for talented played roadblocked in good teams. I suggested a couple of years ago when i saw CNK was not where the game was headed that we should have gone in on Izack Tago. He was a highly rated fullback and at the time he was behind Edwards, Crichton brothers, Staines, Momovovski, To'o, May, Burton for outside backs
And we should still enquire now! He's a natural fullback having to play centre. History tells us he'll eventually want to move to a more important position. If Savage isnt our fullback of the future, Tago is the type of dart i'd like to throw
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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- Laurie Daley
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Re: Recruitment and retention
Yep and Guler, Starling, Hors, CNK, Kris and half the team. How long will Hoppa stay on the books before we try him and decide he’s likely off the pace? Trevellian looked good - get him in there to see if he is or not. Hola, Maritoa - we have a team full of guys unlikely up to it that we seem to be very slowly working towards first grade.The Nickman wrote: ↑April 29, 2022, 5:55 amSo don’t do what they’re currently doing with Semi?Billy Walker wrote:Yep - but the only thing I’d add is that this approach will have a hit and miss success rate. On this path we need to churn and burn players quickly. Don’t spend 3 years easing someone into first grade only to find they are barely to standard and then persist with them for 3 more years hoping they will turn it around. Fail fast move on and find winners.Finchy wrote: ↑April 28, 2022, 8:39 pm We haven’t adequately covered the losses of BJ, Bateman, G Williams. The age and form regression of Croker, Whitehead, Cotric, CNK adds to their losses. There’s not much coming through the lower grades. We need to rebuild and recruit some moneyball options.
Find the best fullback/halfback/centre/hooker/backrower that’s stuck behind rep players and can’t get a run. Who’s stuck behind Cleary and Luai? Who’s stuck behind Harry Grant and Brandon Smith? Find the best juniors in the Penrith/Storm systems that can’t get a look in.
They may not pay off long term but it’s worth a shot. Austin was stuck behind Anasta at Wests, and was carving up lower grades. Only got a shot there when injury struck. CNK was stuck behind RTS at NZ. Only got a shot when injury struck. These are our targets. We can’t realistically buy a Munster or Haas.
Semi might surprise a few - I wouldn’t lose sleep if he was cut and never seen again but he is better than some are crediting him and improving week to week.
Re: Recruitment and retention
He played mostly fullback coming through the ranks and was electric there. It may be that with the road blocks in place at Penrith that he's bulked up too much to play fullback in his current body shape but i saw enough of him at fullback in lower grades to throw that dart at fullback
Re: Recruitment and retention
with the cash they've spent on ramjet and the need to upgrade pay around the squad I'd be throwing darts at that panthers squadBotman wrote:He played mostly fullback coming through the ranks and was electric there. It may be that with the road blocks in place at Penrith that he's bulked up too much to play fullback in his current body shape but i saw enough of him at fullback in lower grades to throw that dart at fullback
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Edrick The Entertainer
- Mickey_Raider
- Jason Croker
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Re: Recruitment and retention
Exactly.The Nickman wrote: ↑April 29, 2022, 5:55 amSo don’t do what they’re currently doing with Semi?Billy Walker wrote:Yep - but the only thing I’d add is that this approach will have a hit and miss success rate. On this path we need to churn and burn players quickly. Don’t spend 3 years easing someone into first grade only to find they are barely to standard and then persist with them for 3 more years hoping they will turn it around. Fail fast move on and find winners.Finchy wrote: ↑April 28, 2022, 8:39 pm We haven’t adequately covered the losses of BJ, Bateman, G Williams. The age and form regression of Croker, Whitehead, Cotric, CNK adds to their losses. There’s not much coming through the lower grades. We need to rebuild and recruit some moneyball options.
Find the best fullback/halfback/centre/hooker/backrower that’s stuck behind rep players and can’t get a run. Who’s stuck behind Cleary and Luai? Who’s stuck behind Harry Grant and Brandon Smith? Find the best juniors in the Penrith/Storm systems that can’t get a look in.
They may not pay off long term but it’s worth a shot. Austin was stuck behind Anasta at Wests, and was carving up lower grades. Only got a shot there when injury struck. CNK was stuck behind RTS at NZ. Only got a shot when injury struck. These are our targets. We can’t realistically buy a Munster or Haas.
We have this strange and infuriating tendency to quickly lock down "2nd tier" potential talents like Semi, Hors or Kris for 12 years once they show a tiny glimmer of something.
Meanwhile we mishandle the big or more significant ticket items. We could have given Schneider 8-12 games last year and it would have given him a huge leg up this year. Instead we decided to persist with Sammy and Frawley despite the fact the season was a lost cause early on.
Watch us waste this year by shuffling Savage in and out of the team on the wing. And then Ricky will probably put him in at FB next year and we will waste another season while he has teething problems back there.
I can also see us doing the same thing to Trev. No doubt we will see a makeshift hooker like Adam Elliot put in there as we continue our noble quest to make the top 12.
Up The Milk
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- Laurie Daley
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Re: Recruitment and retention
Spot on Mickey. The other thing I’d add is we need to establish proper benchmarks for talent. We collect too many stray dogs that put in one or two useful games but in truth aren’t up to it. Guys like CNK, Starling, Cotric, Guler, Hors, Whitehead, Semi all need to be benchmarked against the league and what good looks like. Just because they might be the best option we currently have isn’t reason to persist. Some of those names might stack up ok but a firm ruler needs to be run closely over all of the squad and decisions made with the head not the heart.Mickey_Raider wrote: ↑April 29, 2022, 9:01 amExactly.The Nickman wrote: ↑April 29, 2022, 5:55 amSo don’t do what they’re currently doing with Semi?Billy Walker wrote:Yep - but the only thing I’d add is that this approach will have a hit and miss success rate. On this path we need to churn and burn players quickly. Don’t spend 3 years easing someone into first grade only to find they are barely to standard and then persist with them for 3 more years hoping they will turn it around. Fail fast move on and find winners.Finchy wrote: ↑April 28, 2022, 8:39 pm We haven’t adequately covered the losses of BJ, Bateman, G Williams. The age and form regression of Croker, Whitehead, Cotric, CNK adds to their losses. There’s not much coming through the lower grades. We need to rebuild and recruit some moneyball options.
Find the best fullback/halfback/centre/hooker/backrower that’s stuck behind rep players and can’t get a run. Who’s stuck behind Cleary and Luai? Who’s stuck behind Harry Grant and Brandon Smith? Find the best juniors in the Penrith/Storm systems that can’t get a look in.
They may not pay off long term but it’s worth a shot. Austin was stuck behind Anasta at Wests, and was carving up lower grades. Only got a shot there when injury struck. CNK was stuck behind RTS at NZ. Only got a shot when injury struck. These are our targets. We can’t realistically buy a Munster or Haas.
We have this strange and infuriating tendency to quickly lock down "2nd tier" potential talents like Semi, Hors or Kris for 12 years once they show a tiny glimmer of something.
Meanwhile we mishandle the big or more significant ticket items. We could have given Schneider 8-12 games last year and it would have given him a huge leg up this year. Instead we decided to persist with Sammy and Frawley despite the fact the season was a lost cause early on.
Watch us waste this year by shuffling Savage in and out of the team on the wing. And then Ricky will probably put him in at FB next year and we will waste another season while he has teething problems back there.
I can also see us doing the same thing to Trev. No doubt we will see a makeshift hooker like Adam Elliot put in there as we continue our noble quest to make the top 12.
- Raiders_Pat
- John Ferguson
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Re: Recruitment and retention
I heard earlier in the week that Schuster was promised to play five-eighth but is obviously stuck behind Foran at Manly. If there is a genuine possibility of getting him out of his contract, that would be an excellent play. If the case is he took less for the opportunity to play five-eighth, you could offer him more to play second row until he takes Wighton's 6 jersey or even possibly shift Wighton to second row and play Schuster at 6. Either way, it would strengthen that edge significantly in attack by giving us another ball playing option. There are a number of positions we could use an upgrade in but second row is probably where we're lacking most.Finchy wrote: ↑April 28, 2022, 8:39 pm We haven’t adequately covered the losses of BJ, Bateman, G Williams. The age and form regression of Croker, Whitehead, Cotric, CNK adds to their losses. There’s not much coming through the lower grades. We need to rebuild and recruit some moneyball options.
Find the best fullback/halfback/centre/hooker/backrower that’s stuck behind rep players and can’t get a run. Who’s stuck behind Cleary and Luai? Who’s stuck behind Harry Grant and Brandon Smith? Find the best juniors in the Penrith/Storm systems that can’t get a look in.
They may not pay off long term but it’s worth a shot. Austin was stuck behind Anasta at Wests, and was carving up lower grades. Only got a shot there when injury struck. CNK was stuck behind RTS at NZ. Only got a shot when injury struck. These are our targets. We can’t realistically buy a Munster or Haas.
Re: Recruitment and retention
I think Schuster’s passing game as a backrower would be amazing. One in from Wighton’s running game as a 5/8th, what a complimentary combination they could become.
- Raiders_Pat
- John Ferguson
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Re: Recruitment and retention
Yep. I do recognise it's a bit of a pipe dream though when it comes to our club. We haven't made any ambitious signings like this in a while.
Re: Recruitment and retention
It’s crazy to me how far CNK has dropped. Saying he has always been poor is revisionist history. The guy was MOTM in an elimination final against the Roosters in 2020, only 18 months ago. His running metres, tackle busts are way down - is it his neck injury? He seems to have lost weight and strength.
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- Laurie Daley
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Re: Recruitment and retention
One swallow doesn’t make a summer. Teddy, Turbo, and other top shelf fullbacks have won more MOTM awards in big games than CNK has had hot dinners. He turned out some good performances given the God gifted tools he was dealt but in reality he can’t pass, isn’t quick and now seems like he couldn’t catch a cold.TongueFTW wrote: ↑April 30, 2022, 8:18 am It’s crazy to me how far CNK has dropped. Saying he has always been poor is revisionist history. The guy was MOTM in an elimination final against the Roosters in 2020, only 18 months ago. His running metres, tackle busts are way down - is it his neck injury? He seems to have lost weight and strength.
Re: Recruitment and retention
Absolutely, he’s been great for us. But since his injury, for some reason, he’s not been the same player. He’s never been a ball playing fullback, but he’s been well up with the top players in the game as a runner.TongueFTW wrote: ↑April 30, 2022, 8:18 am It’s crazy to me how far CNK has dropped. Saying he has always been poor is revisionist history. The guy was MOTM in an elimination final against the Roosters in 2020, only 18 months ago. His running metres, tackle busts are way down - is it his neck injury? He seems to have lost weight and strength.
- Northern Raider
- Mal Meninga
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Re: Recruitment and retention
One summer makes a summer. Prior to his neck injury last year he'd been consistently one our best players and highly reliable contributors. Comparisons to the absolute best in the game and guys on $1m contracts is a ridiculous take. Nobody ever claimed CNK was at that level. Same goes for every other fullback in the game.Billy Walker wrote: ↑April 30, 2022, 8:43 amOne swallow doesn’t make a summer. Teddy, Turbo, and other top shelf fullbacks have won more MOTM awards in big games than CNK has had hot dinners. He turned out some good performances given the God gifted tools he was dealt but in reality he can’t pass, isn’t quick and now seems like he couldn’t catch a cold.TongueFTW wrote: ↑April 30, 2022, 8:18 am It’s crazy to me how far CNK has dropped. Saying he has always been poor is revisionist history. The guy was MOTM in an elimination final against the Roosters in 2020, only 18 months ago. His running metres, tackle busts are way down - is it his neck injury? He seems to have lost weight and strength.
If only we'd signed Tedesco before he became a superstar.
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- Seiffert82
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Re: Recruitment and retention
This needed to be said.Northern Raider wrote:One summer makes a summer. Prior to his neck injury last year he'd been consistently one our best players and highly reliable contributors. Comparisons to the absolute best in the game and guys on $1m contracts is a ridiculous take. Nobody ever claimed CNK was at that level. Same goes for every other fullback in the game.Billy Walker wrote: ↑April 30, 2022, 8:43 amOne swallow doesn’t make a summer. Teddy, Turbo, and other top shelf fullbacks have won more MOTM awards in big games than CNK has had hot dinners. He turned out some good performances given the God gifted tools he was dealt but in reality he can’t pass, isn’t quick and now seems like he couldn’t catch a cold.TongueFTW wrote: ↑April 30, 2022, 8:18 am It’s crazy to me how far CNK has dropped. Saying he has always been poor is revisionist history. The guy was MOTM in an elimination final against the Roosters in 2020, only 18 months ago. His running metres, tackle busts are way down - is it his neck injury? He seems to have lost weight and strength.
If only we'd signed Tedesco before he became a superstar.
I'm sure CNK would admit his form has been poor since he returned from his serious neck injury.
Not sure what the point of comparing him to Tom Trbojevic is.
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- gangrenous
- Laurie Daley
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Re: Recruitment and retention
You just look who the poster is.
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- Laurie Daley
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Re: Recruitment and retention
Call me crazy, but I’ve got a theory that if you want to be the best team in the comp you probably need to have some of the best players in the comp. Teddy, Turbo, RTS, Pongia, Mitchell, Brimson, Laurie.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑April 30, 2022, 9:02 amThis needed to be said.Northern Raider wrote:One summer makes a summer. Prior to his neck injury last year he'd been consistently one our best players and highly reliable contributors. Comparisons to the absolute best in the game and guys on $1m contracts is a ridiculous take. Nobody ever claimed CNK was at that level. Same goes for every other fullback in the game.Billy Walker wrote: ↑April 30, 2022, 8:43 amOne swallow doesn’t make a summer. Teddy, Turbo, and other top shelf fullbacks have won more MOTM awards in big games than CNK has had hot dinners. He turned out some good performances given the God gifted tools he was dealt but in reality he can’t pass, isn’t quick and now seems like he couldn’t catch a cold.TongueFTW wrote: ↑April 30, 2022, 8:18 am It’s crazy to me how far CNK has dropped. Saying he has always been poor is revisionist history. The guy was MOTM in an elimination final against the Roosters in 2020, only 18 months ago. His running metres, tackle busts are way down - is it his neck injury? He seems to have lost weight and strength.
If only we'd signed Tedesco before he became a superstar.
I'm sure CNK would admit his form has been poor since he returned from his serious neck injury.
Not sure what the point of comparing him to Tom Trbojevic is.
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CNK is not in the top half of good fullbacks in the comp. But we will do what we do and persist with him and spend the next 3 or 4 year moving him between fullback, 14 and centre before finally concluding he was a nice guy.
Re: Recruitment and retention
Some facts about CNK… he was man of the match six times in 2019, a year when the Raiders made the Grand Final.
“Nicoll-Klokstad ended the 2019 season with 11 tries, second only to Jarrod Croker at the Raiders. He ranked fourth in the try scoring stakes amongst his fellow fullbacks. Nicoll-Klokstad finished second in the NRL, to James Tedesco, for total running metres and finished first for kick return metres. He was in the top 10 players for running metres per game, and first for kick return metres per game amongst the regular fullbacks. He made five in goal escapes, more than any player in the NRL. He was seventh in the NRL for total tackle breaks - and first at the Raiders. The area where he'll be no doubt looking to improve is his ball playing. He had four try assists for the season, and three try contributions, but that was well down the list of fullbacks. He still finished fourth at the Raiders for total try involvements.”
https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33729
He was MOTM three times in 2020.
“Nicoll-Klokstad ended the 2020 season with seven tries, compared with 11 in 2019 - meaning his strike rate was slightly down. He ranked equal third at the Raiders in the try scoring stakes - behind Nick Cotric and Jack Wighton - and eighth amongst the regular NRL fullbacks.
In 2019, Nicoll-Klokstad finished second in the NRL, to James Tedesco, for total running metres and finished first for kick return metres. This year, he dropped to seventh for running metres and eighth for kick return metres. He also dropped out of the top 10 players for average running metres and kick return metres per game. Last year, "CNK" was seventh in the NRL for total tackle breaks and first at the Raiders. However, in 2020, he dropped outside the top 20 players in the NRL in that department. He has worked on his ball playing. But with just four try assists for the season, he was well behind the benchmark fullbacks like Gutherson (19), Ponga (16), Dufty and Tedesco (15). It's something he'll want to continue to work on.”
https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34319
“Nicoll-Klokstad ended up making eight appearances for the Green Machine in 2021, six starting at fullback and two from the bench. He was sorely missed by the team - and I believe his absence was a major reason for the Raiders missing the finals.
Comparing CNK's 2021 statistics with those of previous seasons is very difficult. Not only did he make only eight appearances, he only played around 25 minutes in two matches, and 60 in another. His numbers on a per game basis, however, compare remarkably well with 2020. He still finished first at the club for running metres per game - level with Jordan Rapana - and second for kick return metres. He was also amongst the top four Raiders for tackle breaks per game.”
viewtopic.php?t=34825
The suggestion CNK’s form this year is anything like his form/contributions in other seasons, prior to his injury… well, it’s just not correct. And he was certainly better than an average fullback.
“Nicoll-Klokstad ended the 2019 season with 11 tries, second only to Jarrod Croker at the Raiders. He ranked fourth in the try scoring stakes amongst his fellow fullbacks. Nicoll-Klokstad finished second in the NRL, to James Tedesco, for total running metres and finished first for kick return metres. He was in the top 10 players for running metres per game, and first for kick return metres per game amongst the regular fullbacks. He made five in goal escapes, more than any player in the NRL. He was seventh in the NRL for total tackle breaks - and first at the Raiders. The area where he'll be no doubt looking to improve is his ball playing. He had four try assists for the season, and three try contributions, but that was well down the list of fullbacks. He still finished fourth at the Raiders for total try involvements.”
https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33729
He was MOTM three times in 2020.
“Nicoll-Klokstad ended the 2020 season with seven tries, compared with 11 in 2019 - meaning his strike rate was slightly down. He ranked equal third at the Raiders in the try scoring stakes - behind Nick Cotric and Jack Wighton - and eighth amongst the regular NRL fullbacks.
In 2019, Nicoll-Klokstad finished second in the NRL, to James Tedesco, for total running metres and finished first for kick return metres. This year, he dropped to seventh for running metres and eighth for kick return metres. He also dropped out of the top 10 players for average running metres and kick return metres per game. Last year, "CNK" was seventh in the NRL for total tackle breaks and first at the Raiders. However, in 2020, he dropped outside the top 20 players in the NRL in that department. He has worked on his ball playing. But with just four try assists for the season, he was well behind the benchmark fullbacks like Gutherson (19), Ponga (16), Dufty and Tedesco (15). It's something he'll want to continue to work on.”
https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34319
“Nicoll-Klokstad ended up making eight appearances for the Green Machine in 2021, six starting at fullback and two from the bench. He was sorely missed by the team - and I believe his absence was a major reason for the Raiders missing the finals.
Comparing CNK's 2021 statistics with those of previous seasons is very difficult. Not only did he make only eight appearances, he only played around 25 minutes in two matches, and 60 in another. His numbers on a per game basis, however, compare remarkably well with 2020. He still finished first at the club for running metres per game - level with Jordan Rapana - and second for kick return metres. He was also amongst the top four Raiders for tackle breaks per game.”
viewtopic.php?t=34825
The suggestion CNK’s form this year is anything like his form/contributions in other seasons, prior to his injury… well, it’s just not correct. And he was certainly better than an average fullback.
- gangrenous
- Laurie Daley
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Re: Recruitment and retention
I'd go all in on Schuster. He is probably too big and not quite quick enough for 5/8 but we need ... not another ... "a" ballplaying option and Schuster has that in spades. Manly has him, Olakatoa (however you spell it), Bullemor and Ben Trobeyvic all vying for the second row. They won't get rid of Ben for obvious reasons - and I thought that was his best game so far last night. There were a few nice things from him. The big Olakatoa is a beast - if we can't get Schuster you go for him but Schuster would be the number 1 second rower to go for.Raiders_Pat wrote:Yep. I do recognise it's a bit of a pipe dream though when it comes to our club. We haven't made any ambitious signings like this in a while.
Agree with Pig, Tago looks worth a crack too and I'm sure there's other fringe players at Panthers you go for. Buy two.
I don't think we need to go too crazy with recruitment. We have some good pieces. Fogarty and HSS were huge losses this year. We can't use Hodgson leaving as an excuse because the club really didn't want him. But as Nickman said elsewhere (paraphrasing here) we do have some players that are good enough but they're not playing to their best. We need a new coach.
For all the recent criticism of the fans turning on the club, of course I don't have the inside knowledge, but the criticism from the fans I imagine is exactly the areas that coaches at the better clubs would be levelling directly at their players. Does anybody believe that Bellamy or Robinson would put up with the way our players have been performing this year and last? There's no way in hell. Our players have adopted Jack's infamous 'still got paid' mentality. Their **** phoning it in because the club is currently lacking any personal accountability.
Shoving it in your face since 2017
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- Jason Croker
- Posts: 4810
- Joined: August 28, 2016, 6:19 pm
- Favourite Player: Laurie Daley
Re: Recruitment and retention
Is your club paying too much for players? Confidential NRL document sheds light on salaries: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/is-you ... 5ag76.html
We lose on the field - and off the field with our stupid management over paying players
We lose on the field - and off the field with our stupid management over paying players
Re: Recruitment and retention
Pay wall, in a nutshell, what’s it say re the Raiders?Hong Kong Raider wrote: ↑May 1, 2022, 9:02 am Is your club paying too much for players? Confidential NRL document sheds light on salaries: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/is-you ... 5ag76.html
We lose on the field - and off the field with our stupid management over paying players
- Matt
- Don Furner
- Posts: 38872
- Joined: May 18, 2010, 4:17 pm
- Favourite Player: Time for the new breed Savage, Mooney, Timoko
- Location: Canberra
Re: Recruitment and retention
I put this in the signing thread, so ill add it here too.
Here are some names off contract in the next couple of yrs.... yes, there are some hit and hopes:
2022
FB
WING
Taylan May
CTR
Herbie
Isaiah Tass
Will Kei
HALF
Jock Madden
LOCK
EDGE
Aitken
Matterson
Jack Bird
Angus Crichton
PROP
J'maine Hopgood
Suluka-Fifita
HOOKER
Walters*
Trev needs to be re-signed
Fainu#
Rein (sigh)
2023
FB
Drinkwater (half too)
WING
Cobbo
Muliatlo
Katoa
Marzhew
Dom Young
CTR
Nui
Tago
S Crichton
HALF
Clifford
Ben Hunt (or hooker)
Hastings
LOCK
Mann
EDGE
Patolo
Dave Fifita
Bullemore
Loiero
Egan Butcher
PROP
Jordan Grant
Aaron Pene
Leo Thompson (how ironic)
Fletcher Baker
HOOKER
Robson
Here are some names off contract in the next couple of yrs.... yes, there are some hit and hopes:
2022
FB
WING
Taylan May
CTR
Herbie
Isaiah Tass
Will Kei
HALF
Jock Madden
LOCK
EDGE
Aitken
Matterson
Jack Bird
Angus Crichton
PROP
J'maine Hopgood
Suluka-Fifita
HOOKER
Walters*
Trev needs to be re-signed
Fainu#
Rein (sigh)
2023
FB
Drinkwater (half too)
WING
Cobbo
Muliatlo
Katoa
Marzhew
Dom Young
CTR
Nui
Tago
S Crichton
HALF
Clifford
Ben Hunt (or hooker)
Hastings
LOCK
Mann
EDGE
Patolo
Dave Fifita
Bullemore
Loiero
Egan Butcher
PROP
Jordan Grant
Aaron Pene
Leo Thompson (how ironic)
Fletcher Baker
HOOKER
Robson
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- Jason Croker
- Posts: 4810
- Joined: August 28, 2016, 6:19 pm
- Favourite Player: Laurie Daley
Re: Recruitment and retention
GE, It's difficult to replicate as they have graphs, interactives and tables but I'll do my best. For the positions that don't involve the Raiders, I won't replicate the salaries:
Is your club paying too much for players? Confidential NRL document sheds light on salaries
The document doesn’t name players, but provides the average and median salary for players in each position based on a five player bracket (Eg. Player 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 etc). The salaries are also based on the reduced cap (due to COVID-19) of $9.4m this year.
Some of the game’s former greats have also provided their top five performing players in each position to provide an insight into which teams are getting value for money.
FIVE-EIGHTHS
Top 5
Average salary = $764,460
Median salary = $752,000
Top 5 paid five eighths: 1. Cameron Munster $950,000 2. Jack Wighton $850,000 3. Luke Keary
$752,000 4. Cody Walker $650,0005 Jarome Luai $650,000
One of the game’s greatest five-eighths, Brad Fittler, selected four of the highest paid five-eighths in his top five performers, albeit in a different order: 1. Cameron Munster (Storm) 2. Jarome Luai (Panthers) 3. Dylan Brown (Eels) 4. Jack Wighton (Raiders) 5. Cody Walker (Rabbitohs)
FULLBACKS
Top 5
Average salary = $939,020
Median salary = $987,000
The top five paid fullbacks in the game are Kalyn Ponga, James Tedesco, Tom Trbojevic, Valentine Holmes and Latrell Mitchell. There’s a big drop to the 6th-10th ranked fullbacks, whose average salary is almost $350,000 less than the top five No.1s.
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
Estimated salary $510,000
Estimated bracket Rank 6-10
Bracket average salary $595,000
LOCK FORWARDS
Top 5
Average salary = $841,316
Median salary = $846,000
The average of a top five lock forward is higher than a second-rower despite David Fifita’s monster salary at the Titans inflating the figures for the edge forwards. Joe Tapine is also on a mammoth deal with the Raiders despite being moved to the front row.
1. Jason Taumalolo $975,000 2. Jake Trbojevic $875,000 3. Cameron Murray $846,000 4. Joe Tapine $750,000 5. Jack de Belin $750,000
Paul Gallen labelled Yeo as the best lock in the game: 1.Isaah Yeo (Panthers) 2.Cameron Murray (Rabbitohs) 3.Jake Trbojevic (Sea Eagles) 4.Dale Finucane (Sharks) 5.Jason Taumalolo (Cowboys)
HOOKERS
Top 5
Average salary = $618,440
Median salary = $550,000
1. Josh Hodgson $775,000 2. Damien Cook $725,000 3. Harry Grant $550,000 4. Brandon Smith $525,000 5. Api Koroisau $475,000
The highest paid hooker in the NRL, Canberra’s Josh Hodgson, doesn’t feature in the top five No.9s in the game, according to former Wests Tigers rake Robbie Farah: 1. Api Koroisau (Panthers) 2. Harry Grant (Storm) 3. Damien Cook (Rabbitohs) 4. Reed Mahoney (Eels) 5. Brandon Smith (Storm)
Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/is-you ... 5ag76.html
Is your club paying too much for players? Confidential NRL document sheds light on salaries
The document doesn’t name players, but provides the average and median salary for players in each position based on a five player bracket (Eg. Player 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 etc). The salaries are also based on the reduced cap (due to COVID-19) of $9.4m this year.
Some of the game’s former greats have also provided their top five performing players in each position to provide an insight into which teams are getting value for money.
FIVE-EIGHTHS
Top 5
Average salary = $764,460
Median salary = $752,000
Top 5 paid five eighths: 1. Cameron Munster $950,000 2. Jack Wighton $850,000 3. Luke Keary
$752,000 4. Cody Walker $650,0005 Jarome Luai $650,000
One of the game’s greatest five-eighths, Brad Fittler, selected four of the highest paid five-eighths in his top five performers, albeit in a different order: 1. Cameron Munster (Storm) 2. Jarome Luai (Panthers) 3. Dylan Brown (Eels) 4. Jack Wighton (Raiders) 5. Cody Walker (Rabbitohs)
FULLBACKS
Top 5
Average salary = $939,020
Median salary = $987,000
The top five paid fullbacks in the game are Kalyn Ponga, James Tedesco, Tom Trbojevic, Valentine Holmes and Latrell Mitchell. There’s a big drop to the 6th-10th ranked fullbacks, whose average salary is almost $350,000 less than the top five No.1s.
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
Estimated salary $510,000
Estimated bracket Rank 6-10
Bracket average salary $595,000
LOCK FORWARDS
Top 5
Average salary = $841,316
Median salary = $846,000
The average of a top five lock forward is higher than a second-rower despite David Fifita’s monster salary at the Titans inflating the figures for the edge forwards. Joe Tapine is also on a mammoth deal with the Raiders despite being moved to the front row.
1. Jason Taumalolo $975,000 2. Jake Trbojevic $875,000 3. Cameron Murray $846,000 4. Joe Tapine $750,000 5. Jack de Belin $750,000
Paul Gallen labelled Yeo as the best lock in the game: 1.Isaah Yeo (Panthers) 2.Cameron Murray (Rabbitohs) 3.Jake Trbojevic (Sea Eagles) 4.Dale Finucane (Sharks) 5.Jason Taumalolo (Cowboys)
HOOKERS
Top 5
Average salary = $618,440
Median salary = $550,000
1. Josh Hodgson $775,000 2. Damien Cook $725,000 3. Harry Grant $550,000 4. Brandon Smith $525,000 5. Api Koroisau $475,000
The highest paid hooker in the NRL, Canberra’s Josh Hodgson, doesn’t feature in the top five No.9s in the game, according to former Wests Tigers rake Robbie Farah: 1. Api Koroisau (Panthers) 2. Harry Grant (Storm) 3. Damien Cook (Rabbitohs) 4. Reed Mahoney (Eels) 5. Brandon Smith (Storm)
Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/is-you ... 5ag76.html
Re: Recruitment and retention
Id be having a good cruizer session on the roof top if I was young savage, run mate run. Its and old mans/boys game down in the berra
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This place is woke.
Re: Recruitment and retention
We will be getting none of the above under the current administration.
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This place is woke.
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- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 51180
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- Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland
Re: Recruitment and retention
There’s definitely some balls need to be getting picked out of some nets right now. CNK’s form might be woeful this season (and he’s not on his Pat Malone there), but it’s pretty revisionist stuff to suggest he was never any good.gangrenous wrote:
Re: Recruitment and retention
Thanks for sharing. Does the article dig any deeper about how the salary cap works, and/or provide further context? For a long time I've really wondered how clubs manage their caps. I mean if you just add all of the 'averages' listed together you get about $9.5 million for 13 players. So ummm how does that work? Are the averages based on club's starting 13's and even if it is how is it possible?
I mean, of course clubs spend more/less on different positions, but it's still hard to reconcile those numbers.
Even if you halve those numbers and get your starting 13 down to say $5 million you still have 17 players to pay with the remaining $4.4 million.
If you just throw some numbers around how is it possible?
9,400,000 divide 30 is $313,000 per player
If you have 2 players on $750,000 your average for the other 28 players is $282,000.
If you have a further 6 players on $500,000 your average for the other 22 players is $222,000. And that's being generous because most if not all clubs have at least 1 million dollar player.
That's only 8 of the squad. You can understand the salaries dropping for those squad fillers but these days it's a 17 man game so are we to believe that 9 of your 17 starters are averaging $222,000 - there is no **** way that is happening when the minimum wage is $120,000.
The numbers don't even come close to making any sense?
I mean, of course clubs spend more/less on different positions, but it's still hard to reconcile those numbers.
Even if you halve those numbers and get your starting 13 down to say $5 million you still have 17 players to pay with the remaining $4.4 million.
If you just throw some numbers around how is it possible?
9,400,000 divide 30 is $313,000 per player
If you have 2 players on $750,000 your average for the other 28 players is $282,000.
If you have a further 6 players on $500,000 your average for the other 22 players is $222,000. And that's being generous because most if not all clubs have at least 1 million dollar player.
That's only 8 of the squad. You can understand the salaries dropping for those squad fillers but these days it's a 17 man game so are we to believe that 9 of your 17 starters are averaging $222,000 - there is no **** way that is happening when the minimum wage is $120,000.
The numbers don't even come close to making any sense?
Shoving it in your face since 2017
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- Jason Croker
- Posts: 4810
- Joined: August 28, 2016, 6:19 pm
- Favourite Player: Laurie Daley
Re: Recruitment and retention
Gergreg, no. There's only one more table with average salary per position: backs and halves which I have tried to replicate below:
Rank Fullbacks Wingers Centres Five-eighths Halfbacks
Players 1-5 $939,020 $451,602 $614,680 $764,460 $1,095,560
Players 6-10 $595,604 $390,060 $476,038 $480,660 $639,090
Players 11-15 $418,751 $317,300 $364,220 $276,220 $346,300
Players 16-20 $269,940 $275,540 $303,027 $125,120 $245,353
Players 21-25 $138,520 $240,746 $259,656 $102,267 $138,972
Players 26-30 $106,240 $199,887 $214,218 (no value given for 5/8) $110,780
Players 31-35 $80,000 $169,040 $173,780 (no value given for 5/8) $83,760
Players 36-40 (no value given for FB) $147,180 $150,590 (no values given for 5/8 and HB)
Players 41-45 (no value given for FB) $129,560 $132,320 (no values given for 5/8 and HB)
Players 46-50 (no value given for FB) $121,137 $116,517 (no values given for 5/8 and HB)
Rank Fullbacks Wingers Centres Five-eighths Halfbacks
Players 1-5 $939,020 $451,602 $614,680 $764,460 $1,095,560
Players 6-10 $595,604 $390,060 $476,038 $480,660 $639,090
Players 11-15 $418,751 $317,300 $364,220 $276,220 $346,300
Players 16-20 $269,940 $275,540 $303,027 $125,120 $245,353
Players 21-25 $138,520 $240,746 $259,656 $102,267 $138,972
Players 26-30 $106,240 $199,887 $214,218 (no value given for 5/8) $110,780
Players 31-35 $80,000 $169,040 $173,780 (no value given for 5/8) $83,760
Players 36-40 (no value given for FB) $147,180 $150,590 (no values given for 5/8 and HB)
Players 41-45 (no value given for FB) $129,560 $132,320 (no values given for 5/8 and HB)
Players 46-50 (no value given for FB) $121,137 $116,517 (no values given for 5/8 and HB)
Re: Recruitment and retention
Interesting that Croker’s $600k overs is now the average wage for a centre. He’d also be getting $200k or so of that not on the cap due to long service wouldn’t he?
Ata Mariota’s #1 fan. Bless his cotton socks.