Recruitment and retention

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Botman
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Botman »

Azza wrote: March 22, 2022, 8:08 pm I loved Bateman in 2019 too. But it was one season. Not enough to make him a Messiah. Hodgson had a greater impact overa longer period.

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NO question at all. Hodgson's impact was so seriously significant that its tough to quntify
Bateman was amazing, i love him and will always love him, he was at the time the perfect auxiliary peice.

But Hodgson was what drove that run. None of what we had, could be achieved without him. He was the saviour. I'd be curious to know where someone like GE stacks him up as far as influential signings... im no historian but he's second only to Big Mal as far as i know.
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greeneyed
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: March 22, 2022, 8:15 pm
Azza wrote: March 22, 2022, 8:08 pm I loved Bateman in 2019 too. But it was one season. Not enough to make him a Messiah. Hodgson had a greater impact overa longer period.

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NO question at all. Hodgson's impact was so seriously significant that its tough to quntify
Bateman was amazing, i love him and will always love him, he was at the time the perfect auxiliary peice.

But Hodgson was what drove that run. None of what we had, could be achieved without him. He was the saviour. I'd be curious to know where someone like GE stacks him up as far as influential signings... im no historian but he's second only to Big Mal as far as i know.
I think he will go down as the second best hooker we’ve had and he will hold that place for a long time. Steve Walters clearly in front. By a long way, really.

He’s probably the most influential recent signing, particularly as he was the first of a batch of very good English recruits. The most influential signing after Meninga, I don’t really think so. The bottom line is we have no premiership as part of this era.

I guess you can look at signings in different categories… perhaps if we considered it in the context of recruiting an experienced player he might rank more highly. It is recruitment similar to Meninga in that regard.

But signing Ricky Stuart from rugby union, Ruben Wiki from New Zealand, players like Gary Belcher and Steve Walters from Queensland. Do we count Laurie Daley as a local? We probably shouldn’t. Dean Lance and Chicka Ferguson. These were far more influential signings that delivered premierships.

Have a look at the 40 Year Dream Team: https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34903

There were a lot more influential signings.
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Finchy
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Finchy »

I may be alone in saying this, but I loved Blake Austin. I know his name is mud around these parts now, and I know he was effectively a very limited one-trick pony and a flat-track bully, but the first year he came here he was magical to watch.

His form and defence went downhill after that (for various reasons), but I missed his brilliance. Looks like he lit up the ESL in his first year there too. Unfortunately once teams figure him out he loses any impact.

Just watch his highlights reels on youtube for old-times sake. Joy.





The bloke fair dinkum had spiders on him at times. That crazy Bulldogs game in his last year here where he was unhappy and playing of the bench. We were getting carved up. Ricky brings him on with about 15 mins to go, and he scores/sets up 3 tries to win the game. Freak.
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Northern Raider
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: March 22, 2022, 8:15 pm
Azza wrote: March 22, 2022, 8:08 pm I loved Bateman in 2019 too. But it was one season. Not enough to make him a Messiah. Hodgson had a greater impact overa longer period.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
NO question at all. Hodgson's impact was so seriously significant that its tough to quntify
Bateman was amazing, i love him and will always love him, he was at the time the perfect auxiliary peice.

But Hodgson was what drove that run. None of what we had, could be achieved without him. He was the saviour. I'd be curious to know where someone like GE stacks him up as far as influential signings... im no historian but he's second only to Big Mal as far as i know.
Surprised that one slipped by the filters.
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dubby
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by dubby »

Yeah Jonneh had one good year. One.

And from all reports he ain't setting the ESL on fire either
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Robert the Bruce »

Bateman was that player who made you feel confident in the team, similar aura (in that regard) to Mal. Win or lose the team just felt tougher with him in it. When he made Jai Arrow (?) flinch in the opening game of 2019 we instantly felt like a different team.


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greeneyed
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by greeneyed »

Robert the Bruce wrote: March 22, 2022, 11:54 pm Bateman was that player who made you feel confident in the team, similar aura (in that regard) to Mal. Win or lose the team just felt tougher with him in it. When he made Jai Arrow (?) flinch in the opening game of 2019 we instantly felt like a different team.


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In no way was John Bateman similar to Mal Meninga. Not in the same post code, not in the same country. Should not be mentioned in the same sentence, the same paragraph.

* Except I just did.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Beejay »

We played a style that suited Bateman and he had a great year in the team, with his confidence and intensity making a significant contribution for that year.
He also ended up showing himself to be a selfish individual and not a great team man, who torched the bridge on his way out.

Hodgo will go down as one of my all time favourite Raiders. Transformed the club, in more ways than one.
He's also been training his replacement before he departs. The type of blokes you want to build and maintain a culture.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

greeneyed wrote: March 23, 2022, 12:46 am
Robert the Bruce wrote: March 22, 2022, 11:54 pm Bateman was that player who made you feel confident in the team, similar aura (in that regard) to Mal. Win or lose the team just felt tougher with him in it. When he made Jai Arrow (?) flinch in the opening game of 2019 we instantly felt like a different team.


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In no way was John Bateman similar to Mal Meninga. Not in the same post code, not in the same country. Should not be mentioned in the same sentence, the same paragraph.

* Except I just did.
Agreed - Mal has a 64.5% winning rate at the Raiders vs 73.5 for Johnny B :doubt: :roflmao
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Roger Kenworthy
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Beejay wrote: March 23, 2022, 6:18 am We played a style that suited Bateman and he had a great year in the team, with his confidence and intensity making a significant contribution for that year.
He also ended up showing himself to be a selfish individual and not a great team man, who torched the bridge on his way out.

Hodgo will go down as one of my all time favourite Raiders. Transformed the club, in more ways than one.
He's also been training his replacement before he departs. The type of blokes you want to build and maintain a culture.
I think Soliola was an underrated part of that too. His retirement hit me harder than Hodgo's last game, I guess that combined with our 2021 season was the first sign that we're back into yet another a rebuild.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Northern Raider »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: March 23, 2022, 6:57 am
greeneyed wrote: March 23, 2022, 12:46 am
Robert the Bruce wrote: March 22, 2022, 11:54 pm Bateman was that player who made you feel confident in the team, similar aura (in that regard) to Mal. Win or lose the team just felt tougher with him in it. When he made Jai Arrow (?) flinch in the opening game of 2019 we instantly felt like a different team.


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In no way was John Bateman similar to Mal Meninga. Not in the same post code, not in the same country. Should not be mentioned in the same sentence, the same paragraph.

* Except I just did.
Agreed - Mal has a 64.5% winning rate at the Raiders vs 73.5 for Johnny B :doubt: :roflmao
Xavier Savage has 100% win rate. :thumbsup
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
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Roger Kenworthy
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Northern Raider wrote: March 23, 2022, 7:26 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: March 23, 2022, 6:57 am
greeneyed wrote: March 23, 2022, 12:46 am
Robert the Bruce wrote: March 22, 2022, 11:54 pm Bateman was that player who made you feel confident in the team, similar aura (in that regard) to Mal. Win or lose the team just felt tougher with him in it. When he made Jai Arrow (?) flinch in the opening game of 2019 we instantly felt like a different team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In no way was John Bateman similar to Mal Meninga. Not in the same post code, not in the same country. Should not be mentioned in the same sentence, the same paragraph.

* Except I just did.
Agreed - Mal has a 64.5% winning rate at the Raiders vs 73.5 for Johnny B :doubt: :roflmao
Xavier Savage has 100% win rate. :thumbsup
10-year contract for Xavier please Don :)

Knowing Don he'll go for 20.
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Northern Raider
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Northern Raider »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: March 23, 2022, 7:53 am
Northern Raider wrote: March 23, 2022, 7:26 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: March 23, 2022, 6:57 am
greeneyed wrote: March 23, 2022, 12:46 am
Robert the Bruce wrote: March 22, 2022, 11:54 pm Bateman was that player who made you feel confident in the team, similar aura (in that regard) to Mal. Win or lose the team just felt tougher with him in it. When he made Jai Arrow (?) flinch in the opening game of 2019 we instantly felt like a different team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In no way was John Bateman similar to Mal Meninga. Not in the same post code, not in the same country. Should not be mentioned in the same sentence, the same paragraph.

* Except I just did.
Agreed - Mal has a 64.5% winning rate at the Raiders vs 73.5 for Johnny B :doubt: :roflmao
Xavier Savage has 100% win rate. :thumbsup
10-year contract for Xavier please Don :)

Knowing Don he'll go for 20.
All we need then is for Sticky to select him. Unbeaten premiers till 2042. :cmon
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Canberra Milk »

Finchy wrote: March 22, 2022, 8:36 pm I may be alone in saying this, but I loved Blake Austin. I know his name is mud around these parts now, and I know he was effectively a very limited one-trick pony and a flat-track bully, but the first year he came here he was magical to watch.

His form and defence went downhill after that (for various reasons), but I missed his brilliance. Looks like he lit up the ESL in his first year there too. Unfortunately once teams figure him out he loses any impact.

Just watch his highlights reels on youtube for old-times sake. Joy.





The bloke fair dinkum had spiders on him at times. That crazy Bulldogs game in his last year here where he was unhappy and playing of the bench. We were getting carved up. Ricky brings him on with about 15 mins to go, and he scores/sets up 3 tries to win the game. Freak.
What he did well, he did amazingly. He was arguably the best player in the comp for a while there. Just too many weaknesses in his game that he wasn't able to develop, and he got found out and teams were able to shut him down - it's hard being a half, you have to basically be good at everything
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Botman
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Botman »

Austin was awesome in that first year
Really enjoyable season... unfortunately the league figured out pretty quickly he was a bit of a one trick pony
Still, it was a hell of a trick for a hot minute there :lol:
julian87
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by julian87 »

Pretty much every signing from 14 or so onwards, for a time, was fantastic, or at least a good punt.

Rapana
Waqa
Soliola
Austin
Tapine
Leilua
Sezer
Hodgson
Whitehead
CNK
Bateman

Lesser extent

Havili
Baptiste
Starling
Sutton

The only horrific signing of that era was FPN. He was an absolute spud. Probably the worst output per dollar paid besides Curtis Scott I've seen in green.

But since 2019 it all fell to pieces. Pretty much every piece of recruitment since then has been an absolute **** show. And with Frawley at bench hooker I can see a horror panic buy coming up led by Stuart also.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Robert the Bruce
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Robert the Bruce »

Roger Kenworthy wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: March 23, 2022, 7:26 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: March 23, 2022, 6:57 am
greeneyed wrote: March 23, 2022, 12:46 am
Robert the Bruce wrote: March 22, 2022, 11:54 pm Bateman was that player who made you feel confident in the team, similar aura (in that regard) to Mal. Win or lose the team just felt tougher with him in it. When he made Jai Arrow (?) flinch in the opening game of 2019 we instantly felt like a different team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In no way was John Bateman similar to Mal Meninga. Not in the same post code, not in the same country. Should not be mentioned in the same sentence, the same paragraph.

* Except I just did.
Agreed - Mal has a 64.5% winning rate at the Raiders vs 73.5 for Johnny B :doubt: :roflmao
Xavier Savage has 100% win rate. :thumbsup
10-year contract for Xavier please Don :)

Knowing Don he'll go for 20.
They obviously traded in vastly VASTLY different attributes. Mal was loyal, a leader, he was stoic, he was a role model. Bateman was just completely arrogant. Either way, for me, they gave me confidence as a fan we were a competitive and intimidating football team when they were on the football field.

No coincidence that when both players were in the team we made GF’s..

Can we change this thread name to ‘Why we love John Bateman’?


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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Pete Cash »

julian87 wrote: March 23, 2022, 11:30 am Pretty much every signing from 14 or so onwards, for a time, was fantastic, or at least a good punt.

Rapana
Waqa
Soliola
Austin
Tapine
Leilua
Sezer
Hodgson
Whitehead
CNK
Bateman

Lesser extent

Havili
Baptiste
Starling
Sutton

The only horrific signing of that era was FPN. He was an absolute spud. Probably the worst output per dollar paid besides Curtis Scott I've seen in green.

But since 2019 it all fell to pieces. Pretty much every piece of recruitment since then has been an absolute **** show. And with Frawley at bench hooker I can see a horror panic buy coming up led by Stuart also.
Yep the club was on fire for a period of time. Beej off the scrap heap, all the English players, tapine

But jordy rapana who I'd put in an all time great Raiders side is just one of those real crazy signings all things considered
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by dubby »

Worst signing of this period was Curtis Scott.

At least FPN gave us ONE good game
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by MrMilk »

dubby wrote: March 23, 2022, 6:01 pm Worst signing of this period was Curtis Scott.

At least FPN gave us ONE good game
I think he got two POTM in a row in 2015, so technically 2 games ;)
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

The game reminded me of our retention and recruitment issues. Other teams like Manly spend the money where it matters - a good halfback and fullback.

We spend it on plodders and extend players who are past it.

Our spine sucks.
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gangrenous
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by gangrenous »

I’m not sure Manly are good examples. In my opinion they overspent on spine and hamstrung themselves when they kept DCE on his contract.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Gangers their halfback won them the game today. Albeit he had a forward pack that made metres.

He also won them the game last week v Bulldogs and in the 2nd game last year against us with his kicking and FG. We do need quality in those positions, even if it means spending big.
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Botman
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Botman »

Having one of the best halfbacks in the game can paper over a lot of cracks in a roster.
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gangrenous
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Recruitment and retention

Post by gangrenous »

How many grand finals they been to since they resigned him?

I’m not saying he isn’t good. I’m not saying he won’t win them games. I’m saying they have been unable to field a balanced side with the proportion of salary in the spine.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by -PJ- »

I’d donate a nut to have anything resembling DCE in our team.
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Botman
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: April 2, 2022, 7:32 pm How many grand finals they been to since they resigned him?

I’m not saying he isn’t good. I’m not saying he won’t win them games. I’m saying they have been unable to field a balanced side with the proportion of salary in the spine.
I dont think their ability to field a balanced side has as much to do with what they're paying DCE as it does over all poor management and roster decisions. I think the investment in TT who is on very good coin and, last year aside, has struggled to stay healthy has probably impact them more than DCE's deal tbh.

Having an elite halfback raises their floor and their ceiling. You have to build a different way when you've got a player of that calibre and you pay them, but there isnt a coach in the game would wouldnt trade that cap space for a player like DCE.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Billy Walker »

If you want a $1m player like DCE you don’t throw $600k into an ineffective centre that is playing reserve grade when not injured and whatever else we are paying Sam Williams. That gets you a fair way there without hurting the roster I’d say.
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Botman
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Botman »

You also dont find a lot of 1m players like DCE on the market.
So that's a fairly disingenuous post... regardless of whether those contracts are good, bad or or indifferent, they've not cost us a DCE level player. That level of player was simply not available to us, or anyone on an open market.

Except in very rare circumstances those players are developed from within, they're not found on the open market because they rarely reach the open market as the club holding their contract will do what it takes financially to keep them.

The issue with our lack of a 1m DCE level player has nothing to do with anyone on this roster, it's simply down to our lack of ability to identify, recruit and develop an elite talent at that position.
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gangrenous
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by gangrenous »

Let me add that DCE’s contract size is less of an issue now than when he signed it.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: April 2, 2022, 8:10 pm Let me add that DCE’s contract size is less of an issue now than when he signed it.
According to reports on salary, he's the only guy whos' CONFIRMED to have his salary is tied to cap size
So he's impacting them as much now as he was when he signed the deal, from a cap perspective.

I think NRL teams understanding positional value has made his contract more manageable. But it was always manageable, they just **** around with Geoff Toovey and Trent Barrett for 7 **** years of DCE's prime. Also, they're a top heavy team who relies heavily on DCE and Tommy T, and Tommy T's hamstrings are suboptimal
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Billy Walker »

Botman wrote: April 2, 2022, 8:07 pm You also dont find a lot of 1m players like DCE on the market.
So that's a fairly disingenuous post... regardless of whether those contracts are good, bad or or indifferent, they've not cost us a DCE level player. That level of player was simply not available to us, or anyone on an open market.

Except in very rare circumstances those players are developed from within, they're not found on the open market because they rarely reach the open market as the club holding their contract will do what it takes financially to keep them.

The issue with our lack of a 1m DCE level player has nothing to do with anyone on this roster, it's simply down to our lack of ability to identify, recruit and develop an elite talent at that position.
So you have to take a punt and offer a kid massive overs like the Knights did when Ponga was a skinny winger with a good step at the cowboys. I would have been tempted to throw the bank at Sam Walker after a few games last year. It’s a risky play but I can’t see the alternative - we aren’t recruiting an established star to the club so I say throw massive overs for a kid and hope the hype is true
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Wiki Special »

Ww really need to know if Savage and Trevilyan are long term answers at Fullback and Hooker respectively. They are two of our biggest positions of need going forward along with Second Row, Lock and Halfback (at least we are getting a look at Schneider there). Just my opinion, others may see different needs as priority.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Wiki Special »

Billy Walker wrote: April 2, 2022, 8:33 pm
Botman wrote: April 2, 2022, 8:07 pm You also dont find a lot of 1m players like DCE on the market.
So that's a fairly disingenuous post... regardless of whether those contracts are good, bad or or indifferent, they've not cost us a DCE level player. That level of player was simply not available to us, or anyone on an open market.

Except in very rare circumstances those players are developed from within, they're not found on the open market because they rarely reach the open market as the club holding their contract will do what it takes financially to keep them.

The issue with our lack of a 1m DCE level player has nothing to do with anyone on this roster, it's simply down to our lack of ability to identify, recruit and develop an elite talent at that position.
So you have to take a punt and offer a kid massive overs like the Knights did when Ponga was a skinny winger with a good step at the cowboys. I would have been tempted to throw the bank at Sam Walker after a few games last year. It’s a risky play but I can’t see the alternative - we aren’t recruiting an established star to the club so I say throw massive overs for a kid and hope the hype is true
For Canberra it is probably our only realistic option unfortunately, unless we hit the jackpot with a local junior.
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Re: Recruitment and retention

Post by Billy Walker »

Wiki Special wrote: April 2, 2022, 8:37 pm
Billy Walker wrote: April 2, 2022, 8:33 pm
Botman wrote: April 2, 2022, 8:07 pm You also dont find a lot of 1m players like DCE on the market.
So that's a fairly disingenuous post... regardless of whether those contracts are good, bad or or indifferent, they've not cost us a DCE level player. That level of player was simply not available to us, or anyone on an open market.

Except in very rare circumstances those players are developed from within, they're not found on the open market because they rarely reach the open market as the club holding their contract will do what it takes financially to keep them.

The issue with our lack of a 1m DCE level player has nothing to do with anyone on this roster, it's simply down to our lack of ability to identify, recruit and develop an elite talent at that position.
So you have to take a punt and offer a kid massive overs like the Knights did when Ponga was a skinny winger with a good step at the cowboys. I would have been tempted to throw the bank at Sam Walker after a few games last year. It’s a risky play but I can’t see the alternative - we aren’t recruiting an established star to the club so I say throw massive overs for a kid and hope the hype is true
For Canberra it is probably our only realistic option unfortunately, unless we hit the jackpot with a local junior.
Look there is an obvious second step to this plan which involves actually giving the talented youngster a game. You’d suspect that obvious but I suspect Savage might turn out to be an exceptional player at another club….
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