The Politics Thread 2022

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: May 25, 2022, 8:35 pm NBA coach’s incredible press conference goes viral after mass shooting: https://www.news.com.au/sport/american- ... cb146b0028

Hear hear.

Shame on you American senate.
A shame it'll all be nothing
the ghouls in the rupublican party will continue to march on, in fact Ted Cruz, Donald Trump and some other **** soulless POS is slated to be key note speakers at an NRA conference literally this weekeend

This tweet from 2015 sums it up
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

I’m feeling a bit more confident that we’re reaching the point of breaking for this. It should never have come within light years of this far, but I feel like they’re coming to the point of sufficient anger in the majority to not accept the Bull any more.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gergreg »

On the drum they were talking about how much money the NRA had given directly to US Senators and they were throwing around figures in the millions. I was only half paying attention though.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: May 25, 2022, 9:01 pm I’m feeling a bit more confident that we’re reaching the point of breaking for this. It should never have come within light years of this far, but I feel like they’re coming to the point of sufficient anger in the majority to not accept the Bull any more.
Mate, Texas just recently made it EASIER to obtain fire arms and carry fire arms without any inhibiting factors and to sell them with even less regulation

If anything, the gun legislation in going further away from common sense.
Biden was on TV today imploring the Rupublicans to come to the table to find sensible gun reform... MF, you have the god damn power! You hold the presidency, the senate and the **** house! They have all three levels of governement. If they had the **** stones, they could roll in tomorrow, eliminate the **** filibuster and expand the supreme court to protect Roe v Wade (or if that's a slippery slide, which it may well be! pass legislagtion that codifies it), pass reasonable gun reform and voter rights legislation by the end the FY.

Granted, the Rupublicans might repeal a lot of that good next time they were in power, but at least the politicans on the democractic side of things could go to bed at night saying they tried! They could say they went down swinging... but this is 'merica. And despite having the numbers, the democrats are too **** gutless to do anything real.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by zim »

The amount of control it seems like they have is a lot more shaky in reality given the floor walkers they have on certain issues. Manchin as one example. For gun control there's more than just him.
Personally I wish they just went hammer and tongs for it to force those votes into public view and trim the fat from their party, or gain enough seats at the mid terms that those voices are irrelevant.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Coastalraider »

One of the biggest challenges, and one that powers the rednecks opinion of ‘you need more guns to protect from people with guns’ narrative is the volume of firearms already in circulation. If they literally stopped the sale of any firearm in the country, there are still so many in existence it’s a major issue.

To compare, in Australia there is currently 0.14 firearms per person. With a massive bias to non automatic rifles. In the US? Currently REGISTERED firearms, 1.2 per person. More than one each.

Making new purchases of firearms harder to obtain is 100% a step that has to be taken, sadly due to the many decades of this absolute nonsense going on, it’s not a coverall solution. Considering how hard they are making it to bringing legislation for background checks, there is exactly zero chance of a buyback scheme working to reduce the weapons in circulation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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zim wrote: May 25, 2022, 10:57 pm The amount of control it seems like they have is a lot more shaky in reality given the floor walkers they have on certain issues. Manchin as one example. For gun control there's more than just him.
Personally I wish they just went hammer and tongs for it to force those votes into public view and trim the fat from their party, or gain enough seats at the mid terms that those voices are irrelevant.
Agreed that its shakier than it looks, but progressive podcasters i listen to are fairly adamant the numbers are there even accounting for the "floor walkers", as you called them.
And like i said, if they did it, most of what they did would be immediately repealed as soon as the Republicans got back in, so in that respect i can understand the desire to work with them to put something in place that might survive the next time the republicans get control

However, at some point you have to just do SOMETHING so you can sleep at night knowing you've tried your best. And ****, who knows... maybe you ram some gun reform, and in the couple of years its in place the people start to see it's having a impact in reducing gun violence and mass shootings and that helps convince more people/politicians who are on the fence to support it forcefully?

I dont know. Its certainly a difficult issue to address given the size and scope of the gun problem there, but for me... it's beyond the point now where the democrats just have to do SOMETHING, to go down swinging at the very least so they can look themselves in the eye and not be ashamed of themselves
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Botman »

Beto O'Rourke crashing the Gov. Abbott's press conference and pointedly telling him that it's on him until he chooses to do something about it was really wonderful to see. Beto's not perfect but at least he gives a **** and is prepared to do everything within his power to do what needs to be done.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gergreg »

Reports this morning of police inaction during the shooting. Well maybe not inaction. Instead of storming the school they cordoned off the area and focussed on preventing parents from entering the area.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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gergreg wrote: May 27, 2022, 7:46 am Reports this morning of police inaction during the shooting. Well maybe not inaction. Instead of storming the school they cordoned off the area and focussed on preventing parents from entering the area.
So much for the problem needing to be solved by having good guys with guns
The good guys with guns were there, which is no uncommon! And as always, they couldnt stop it

And they think the answer is arm the **** teachers? Jesus wept.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Dr Zaius »

Botman wrote:
gergreg wrote: May 27, 2022, 7:46 am Reports this morning of police inaction during the shooting. Well maybe not inaction. Instead of storming the school they cordoned off the area and focussed on preventing parents from entering the area.
So much for the problem needing to be solved by having good guys with guns
The good guys with guns were there, which is no uncommon! And as always, they couldnt stop it

And they think the answer is arm the **** teachers? Jesus wept.
Exactly! They should be arming the children! It's the logical thing to do.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by BJ »

I think we need to be sensible about this. Children under 3 should only be allowed to carry single round firing weapons.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by zim »

RPGs? I like it.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Sid »

BJ wrote:I think we need to be sensible about this. Children under 3 should only be allowed to carry single round firing weapons.
Trying to enforce gun control on under 3's? You can't take away their rights you raging leftie!

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by BJ »

Sid wrote:
BJ wrote:I think we need to be sensible about this. Children under 3 should only be allowed to carry single round firing weapons.
Trying to enforce gun control on under 3's? You can't take away their rights you raging leftie!

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by T_R »

Botman wrote: May 27, 2022, 8:29 am
gergreg wrote: May 27, 2022, 7:46 am Reports this morning of police inaction during the shooting. Well maybe not inaction. Instead of storming the school they cordoned off the area and focussed on preventing parents from entering the area.
So much for the problem needing to be solved by having good guys with guns
The good guys with guns were there, which is no uncommon! And as always, they couldnt stop it

And they think the answer is arm the **** teachers? Jesus wept.
A police force with weapons and armor that would be the envy of virtually any standing army in the world thought it was too dangerous to go into the school.

I guess when your job is dragging black guys out of cars and choking them it's one thing, but when someone might shoot back? Too risky.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Botman »

T_R wrote: May 27, 2022, 7:16 pm
Botman wrote: May 27, 2022, 8:29 am
gergreg wrote: May 27, 2022, 7:46 am Reports this morning of police inaction during the shooting. Well maybe not inaction. Instead of storming the school they cordoned off the area and focussed on preventing parents from entering the area.
So much for the problem needing to be solved by having good guys with guns
The good guys with guns were there, which is no uncommon! And as always, they couldnt stop it

And they think the answer is arm the **** teachers? Jesus wept.
A police force with weapons and armor that would be the envy of virtually any standing army in the world thought it was too dangerous to go into the school.

I guess when your job is dragging black guys out of cars and choking them it's one thing, but when someone might shoot back? Too risky.
And frankly fair enough too... who honestly is going to to risk their life in such circumstance? They're few and far between. Im certainly not too proud to say i doubt i'd have the courage to act unless it was my kids in danger. Because i want to come home to my kids! Expecting teachers to go full Call of Duty when most cops cant even muster that courage is the most **** thing i've ever heard.

The answer is so very c
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by zim »

Very what?!
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

C
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The Politics Thread 2022

Post by The Nickman »

Our boy Raider69 has always been somewhat of a wordsmith and I think he’s summed the whole thing up very succinctly. The whole thing really is very c.

Very c indeed.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Botman »

I said what I meant and I meant what I said.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

O I C
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Coastalraider »

Bot says C, and so does his 2 I C.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Begbie »

Trump spoke at the NRA conference. Advocating to remove gun free zones from schools…
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by T_R »


Botman wrote:
T_R wrote: May 27, 2022, 7:16 pm
Botman wrote: May 27, 2022, 8:29 am
gergreg wrote: May 27, 2022, 7:46 am Reports this morning of police inaction during the shooting. Well maybe not inaction. Instead of storming the school they cordoned off the area and focussed on preventing parents from entering the area.
So much for the problem needing to be solved by having good guys with guns
The good guys with guns were there, which is no uncommon! And as always, they couldnt stop it

And they think the answer is arm the **** teachers? Jesus wept.
A police force with weapons and armor that would be the envy of virtually any standing army in the world thought it was too dangerous to go into the school.

I guess when your job is dragging black guys out of cars and choking them it's one thing, but when someone might shoot back? Too risky.
And frankly fair enough too... who honestly is going to to risk their life in such circumstance? They're few and far between. Im certainly not too proud to say i doubt i'd have the courage to act unless it was my kids in danger. Because i want to come home to my kids! Expecting teachers to go full Call of Duty when most cops cant even muster that courage is the most **** thing i've ever heard.

The answer is so very c
Not sure why we started talking about teachers there. My point was only that a highly equipped, highly trained police force sat around for an hour while a guy with an assault rifle was in a school.

Not sure about the whole C thing, either.

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Botman »

You can file that post away under the evidence my wife is collecting that I’ve got undiagnosed ADD :lol:
I got distracted by something else

My point was the cops where too scared to engage the guy and I don’t blame them.
I doubt I’d have the courage to go in there and take him on either if I were a cop on scene unless my kids were in there. I’m trying to come home alive every day

Which speaks to how absurd it is to think the answer is arming teachers. The cops were too scared to engage. Why would anyone think a teacher is going to be anymore courageous

The thought I didn’t finish there was this.
The answer is so very clear. It’s a gun legislation reform. They can arm teachers, post a cop in every public school and this will keep happening until they do something about easily accessible weapons are
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

Yeah, I’m actually a lot more down on hope of change now seeing this.

Most likely outcome is that the country’s focus and the media go entirely onto the cops. Nothing is done to address the gun reform necessary, and a chunk of those cops will now be suicide risk from having a country loathe them for something that 90% of them wouldn’t do themselves (and I’m ok to admit like pigman that I’m in that basket too if it’s not my kids ).
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Botman wrote: May 28, 2022, 1:11 pm You can file that post away under the evidence my wife is collecting that I’ve got undiagnosed ADD :lol:
I got distracted by something else

My point was the cops where too scared to engage the guy and I don’t blame them.
I doubt I’d have the courage to go in there and take him on either if I were a cop on scene unless my kids were in there. I’m trying to come home alive every day

Which speaks to how absurd it is to think the answer is arming teachers. The cops were too scared to engage. Why would anyone think a teacher is going to be anymore courageous

The thought I didn’t finish there was this.
The answer is so very clear. It’s a gun legislation reform. They can arm teachers, post a cop in every public school and this will keep happening until they do something about easily accessible weapons are
You see, I just disagree. There are very few jobs that require you to run to danger, but if you're in one of those jobs then it's what you've signed up for. For its part, the government needs support those in the role with the best training and equipment they can get.

In this case, the police force was armed with military grade assault rifles and had both body armor and helmets that can, and repeatedly have, stop a point-blank AK47 round. Going in in numbers against a single shooter? Absolutely, a risky exercise, but the risks are minimal....and it's what you signed up for. In the army, the closest equivalent role that I can think of, they used to shoot people who refused to advance.

As for arming teachers, of course it is an absolutely ridiculous idea that would do nothing other than multiply the deaths in schools.

And gun reform? It's never going to happen. Never. Cannot be achieved.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by zim »

Yeah the teacher arming argument, while stupid to begin with, is even more ridiculous when the guys that are armed and supposedly trained to deal with this won't.
Bit of a moo point around here though.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by greeneyed »

Interesting piece from John Hewson: https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opi ... ection#mtr
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gergreg »

T_R wrote:
Botman wrote: May 28, 2022, 1:11 pm You can file that post away under the evidence my wife is collecting that I’ve got undiagnosed ADD Image
I got distracted by something else

My point was the cops where too scared to engage the guy and I don’t blame them.
I doubt I’d have the courage to go in there and take him on either if I were a cop on scene unless my kids were in there. I’m trying to come home alive every day

Which speaks to how absurd it is to think the answer is arming teachers. The cops were too scared to engage. Why would anyone think a teacher is going to be anymore courageous

The thought I didn’t finish there was this.
The answer is so very clear. It’s a gun legislation reform. They can arm teachers, post a cop in every public school and this will keep happening until they do something about easily accessible weapons are
You see, I just disagree. There are very few jobs that require you to run to danger, but if you're in one of those jobs then it's what you've signed up for. For its part, the government needs support those in the role with the best training and equipment they can get.

In this case, the police force was armed with military grade assault rifles and had both body armor and helmets that can, and repeatedly have, stop a point-blank AK47 round. Going in in numbers against a single shooter? Absolutely, a risky exercise, but the risks are minimal....and it's what you signed up for. In the army, the closest equivalent role that I can think of, they used to shoot people who refused to advance.

As for arming teachers, of course it is an absolutely ridiculous idea that would do nothing other than multiply the deaths in schools.

And gun reform? It's never going to happen. Never. Cannot be achieved.
Agreed TR. We're talking about a trigger happy country and the most trigger happy workforce on the planet - along with the military. Their only option in that instance is to go in after the bloke. Most of them live for that sort of adrenalin rush. They **** up. It's as simple as that.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Dr Zaius »

greeneyed wrote:Interesting piece from John Hewson: https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opi ... ection#mtr
Another former senior Liberal concerned about where the party is headed, and not afraid to say it. It is interesting to ponder what might have been had he won in 1993. No Howard years. Possibly no involvement in the second Iraq war. Earlier action on climate change. A more centrist Liberal party.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Botman »

gergreg wrote: May 28, 2022, 3:57 pm
T_R wrote:
Botman wrote: May 28, 2022, 1:11 pm You can file that post away under the evidence my wife is collecting that I’ve got undiagnosed ADD Image
I got distracted by something else

My point was the cops where too scared to engage the guy and I don’t blame them.
I doubt I’d have the courage to go in there and take him on either if I were a cop on scene unless my kids were in there. I’m trying to come home alive every day

Which speaks to how absurd it is to think the answer is arming teachers. The cops were too scared to engage. Why would anyone think a teacher is going to be anymore courageous

The thought I didn’t finish there was this.
The answer is so very clear. It’s a gun legislation reform. They can arm teachers, post a cop in every public school and this will keep happening until they do something about easily accessible weapons are
You see, I just disagree. There are very few jobs that require you to run to danger, but if you're in one of those jobs then it's what you've signed up for. For its part, the government needs support those in the role with the best training and equipment they can get.

In this case, the police force was armed with military grade assault rifles and had both body armor and helmets that can, and repeatedly have, stop a point-blank AK47 round. Going in in numbers against a single shooter? Absolutely, a risky exercise, but the risks are minimal....and it's what you signed up for. In the army, the closest equivalent role that I can think of, they used to shoot people who refused to advance.

As for arming teachers, of course it is an absolutely ridiculous idea that would do nothing other than multiply the deaths in schools.

And gun reform? It's never going to happen. Never. Cannot be achieved.
Agreed TR. We're talking about a trigger happy country and the most trigger happy workforce on the planet - along with the military. Their only option in that instance is to go in after the bloke. Most of them live for that sort of adrenalin rush. They **** up. It's as simple as that.
I take the point that it’s the job they signed up to do and they should be expected to do it.

But when rubber meets the road and the guy is not an unarmed black man with his hands up or running away, which is when the US police force feel most trigger happy it seems, but rather an armed dude in tactical gear who’s intent on killing who ever is in his way… I think it’s reasonable to assume you’re going to have cops who are hesitant to go in there and engage and will value their lives first and wait for their own tactical gear/unit to arrive first. And casualties be damned.

That’s just human nature. No doubt they didn’t do their jobs here, but I’m simply saying that’s not particularly surprising or unpredictable. And goes to why the gun reform is so vitally necessary, because the good guys with guns can’t/won’t stop this

And I know I’m preaching to a choir there, and I generally agree it’s simply never going to happen in that country. It’s just so maddening.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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gergreg
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gergreg »

It's kind of their job though. Police officers cannot cherry pick when they jump into action.

Ahhh there's a couple of bikies over there committing crime ... nah those boys are too mean looking for me. Let's just see how this goes.

Terrorists? Oh we better hang back for special forces to show up in 90 minutes...

Oh, Tom Starling is drunk and being restrained by three colleagues... let me the **** at him.
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Botman
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Botman »

Yeah agreed, it's not just kind of their job. It IS their job, Im not say you guys are wrong. You are 100% right in theory.

And that's how it's supposed to work and if everyone just did their job like robots, that's how it would work. But evidently they CAN cherry pick when to jump into action, because they just did here and have done before. And do all the time.

And what they should do doesnt ultimately matter a whole lot when **** is really going down and they have to make a decision to risk their life. They're not robots, they're human and they're subject to the same fears as everyone else. When the bullets and risk are real, human nature kicks in. Fight or flight. Im sure there are plenty who will go and do their duty but we have enough data points now to know there are also plenty who arent realllly about that life.

I just dont think this is a police action/inaction issue. I dont think they can realistically rely on that as a factor to change the game.
Last edited by Botman on May 28, 2022, 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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