The Politics Thread 2022

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T_R
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by T_R »

gangrenous wrote:
T_R wrote:
gangrenous wrote:
T_R wrote: She chose to come out and make public statements.
You think she could have abstained from comment without being hounded on the point at any interview? That’s just not realistic.
It was a soft and cuddly Channel Ten magazine piece. Yes, she could have easily avoided the question, as she and other politicians do a dozen times a day.

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I’m not talking in this one interview. If she doesn’t take a position on gay marriage as (one of? the only?) openly gay senior party member then it would have kept coming back at her from the press until she did.
Perhaps it would have.

She could have then had the political courage to express her concerns with the policy.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Dr Zaius »

This results was not entirely unpredictable. As said previously in this thread, governments are voted out. The primary vote for Labor is down, people didn't vote them in. People are disillusioned with the two major parties, and Labor was the more tolerable option.

Both parties appear be increasingly form a base from two (or more) opposing groups, and rather than pleasing both, are underwhelming all. Both parties appear beholden to shadowy masters and factional infighting. People are looking for alternatives to represent their interests. If there was a Teal in my seat, I would have been on it like Oprah on a ham. There was nothing but the majors and a bunch of pretty ordinary options. It was an easy decision for me to vote ALP.

Scomo was an obvious factor, although I'm not convinced that he was the one major issue that most seem to be believe. I find him dishonest, morally corrupt and smug. The premiers largely managed the pandemic, while Scomo deflected responsibility and fired political barbs.

The handling of sexual misconduct incidents, relationship with Grace Tame and general misogynistic vibe that the libs give off was another factor for me. I heard that something like 12 new women members have been elected, which is a welcome change. The pork barrelling and refusal to implement a Federal Corruption body with teeth another concern. The general sense of dishonesty.

Climate is another obvious issue. You can't lie to the public for a decade, sod off to Hawaii as the country literally burns to the ground, deflect responsibility, and seriously expect people to return you for another term.

Finally for me, I've become increasingly concerned that the LNP has become beholden to the far right. The events of 2020-21 in the US, and the consolidation of News influence and rise of Sky have heightened my concern. We saw a more progressive PM hamstrung and finally knifed. We saw lunatics like Craig Kelly and George Christiansen for a long time given free reign to undermine health directive spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories.

I'm not overly worried that this might be a minority government. It will be nice to have collaboration with a range of interests. My hope from this election is that the LNP may after soul searching, move back towards the centre, and that concurrently there may be the rise of a new force in the centre left, not beholden to trade unions. My worry is that the LNP stripped of many of their moderates will lurch even further to the right, that Dutton will be the opposition leader, and quite possibly our next prime minister. The thought of Volde in charge terrifies me.
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The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

Hear hear doc. I share your sentiments.

I’d add that I’m not sure the major parties can stop the drain of their primary vote. I think the fragmenting of the electorate means that you just can’t have one set of policy (or absence of policy) that spans enough of the electorate to do so at the moment.

Labor went right and policy lite to get enough of the electorate to form government, but to do so had to sacrifice the first preference vote of the left tail to the the Greens.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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In the cold light of day, now seeing Dutton is firming up as the next leader... i've got great concerns for the direction of the LNP. I had hoped and thought! they'd do as the good Dr said, but now im feeling it will be wishful thinking

Dutton will take them further right and there is nothing good to be gained by that, for them as a party or for us as a country.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

Agree. And with tough times ahead, a man who will be likely an effective opposition leader, and a concentrated media environment that generally supports the right wing… good potential recipe for a further right version of the LNP to still land back in power next term.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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gangrenous wrote: May 22, 2022, 9:40 pm Agree. And with tough times ahead, a man who will be likely an effective opposition leader, and a concentrated media environment that generally supports the right wing… good potential recipe for a further right version of the LNP to still land back in power next term.
Yes, thats the real concern. Dutton will be a lightning rod for conservatives who have not accepted the message this election delivered to them. But he will cut through in ways that will make him as you say, an "effective" opposition leader.

Very interesting times ahead... for both the incoming government who now seem on track to have a majority to do what they've been elected to do without needing a lot from the teals/greens, a difficult environment given we're coming out a very expensive pandemic, and the current housing market, and then yes.. where to now for the Libs?!

I think this term of govenement is going to present really tough challenges. Albo will have a chance to really sink or swim... and if our fears about a Dutton led LNP are right, he needs to swim!
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The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

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May the odds be ever in our favour Image
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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:lol: indeed!
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Dr Zaius »

I guess a Potatohead For PM campaign might go one of two ways. Launch us into some sort of Trumpian Apocalypse, or send the LNP into a death spiral towards irrelevance.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Schifty »

Amazing tactics here.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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If the Libs really believe that a US Republican far right nastiness is the way to go, then they deserve everything they get.

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Yeah, I think if Dutton contests the next election it will actually lurch the LNP further into irrelevance, not make them more powerful

I firmly believe Shorten would’ve beaten Dutton in 2019 if that had been the choice. I certainly would’ve voted Labor in that instance
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by T_R »

With the small l inner city mob decimated, the Libs are already far to the right of where they were before the election.

The Nats, who have come through this unscathed, will potentially be a stronger pull to the right, too.

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I find it astounding how delusional the conservative commentariat are.

They have been completely eviscerated in all major inner metropolitan areas across the country for being too far to the right. And their reaction? “We lost because we weren’t conservative enough.”

If they abandon these areas they will not be winning any elections any time soon.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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LNP are set to make the same mistake they all make after losing an election. Immediately vote in the new leader in opposition and that person remains in place right through till next election. There's really no time taken to evaluate what needs to change and who the best person is to try and win next time round. Labor paid the price with Shorten and almost did it again with Albo. They were forunate the willingness of the voting public to remove the Morrison Government outweighed any lack of confidence in Albo as potential PM. LNP could well making the same mistake with Dutton.

It's quite ironic that the last 10 years both parties have been more prepared to remove a sitting Prime Minister from the leadership position than they have in changing opposition leaders mid term.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Northern Raider wrote: May 23, 2022, 11:03 am LNP are set to make the same mistake they all make after losing an election. Immediately vote in the new leader in opposition and that person remains in place right through till next election. There's really no time taken to evaluate what needs to change and who the best person is to try and win next time round. Labor paid the price with Shorten and almost did it again with Albo. They were forunate the willingness of the voting public to remove the Morrison Government outweighed any lack of confidence in Albo as potential PM. LNP could well making the same mistake with Dutton.

It's quite ironic that the last 10 years both parties have been more prepared to remove a sitting Prime Minister from the leadership position than they have in changing opposition leaders mid term.
Interesting isn't it?

History tells us that there is not necessarily a dividend to be gained from longevity of an opposition leader's tenure. I don't think the voters care about the perception of "stability" in an opposition all that much.

Bob Hawke was injected at the 11th hour before the 1983 election and was swept in to power.

Rudd was in the saddle for less than a year before being elected.

Shorten was in for 6 years and delivered 2 election losses and just couldn't lift his popularity off the floor.

My analysis of that is that I suspect the electorate looks favourably upon a "fresh" face in opposition when they are contrasted against a stale leader who has been in a while. This is amplified by the fact that most people really don't start paying attention to the political contest until very late in the electoral cycle.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Mickey_Raider wrote: May 23, 2022, 12:34 pm
Northern Raider wrote: May 23, 2022, 11:03 am LNP are set to make the same mistake they all make after losing an election. Immediately vote in the new leader in opposition and that person remains in place right through till next election. There's really no time taken to evaluate what needs to change and who the best person is to try and win next time round. Labor paid the price with Shorten and almost did it again with Albo. They were forunate the willingness of the voting public to remove the Morrison Government outweighed any lack of confidence in Albo as potential PM. LNP could well making the same mistake with Dutton.

It's quite ironic that the last 10 years both parties have been more prepared to remove a sitting Prime Minister from the leadership position than they have in changing opposition leaders mid term.
Interesting isn't it?

History tells us that there is not necessarily a dividend to be gained from longevity of an opposition leader's tenure. I don't think the voters care about the perception of "stability" in an opposition all that much.

Bob Hawke was injected at the 11th hour before the 1983 election and was swept in to power.

Rudd was in the saddle for less than a year before being elected.

Shorten was in for 6 years and delivered 2 election losses and just couldn't lift his popularity off the floor.

My analysis of that is that I suspect the electorate looks favourably upon a "fresh" face in opposition when they are contrasted against a stale leader who has been in a while. This is amplified by the fact that most people really don't start paying attention to the political contest until very late in the electoral cycle.
That philosphy could also flow through to parties retaining government. Gillard, Turnbull and Morrison were very new to the role when they won their respective elections. The 'fresh face" philosophy may be even more relevant now in the age of Social Media.

Bottom line is the Leader of the Opposition should be treated as an interim role immediately post election. Problem is the politics within politics that happen in the respective party rooms. Its the ones who hold influence behind closed doors that become leaders. Not necessarily the person best suited to win the next election.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gergreg »

Surely they can't go with Dutton? Would be madness.
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The Politics Thread 2022

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gergreg wrote:Surely they can't go with Dutton? Would be madness.
Yeah, it would absolutely be ludicrous, it’s almost an unwinnable platform to base the next election on

Like I said before, they’d completely lose my vote fronting up with Dutton
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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I have a hunch this unite propaganda that albo is banging on about will only greater the divide

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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greeneyed wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:43 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
Stay tuned on that one! If the LNP continue to lurch further right, there is every chance the Nats could be the major party in a few elections times! :lol:
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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greeneyed wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:43 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
and Nationals leader becomes deputy leader of coalition by default?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

Northern Raider wrote:
greeneyed wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:43 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
and Nationals leader becomes deputy leader of coalition by default?
I think you’ve just uncovered Barnaby’s cunning plan…
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Dr Zaius »

The UAP are predictably claiming voter fraud. You got 4% of the vote and it's voter fraud that has kept you out of power? Straight from the Trump handbook, and the faithful believe them. And apparently we are the aheeple.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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To be honest UAP getting 4% of the vote sounds like fraud. That’s too many silly people surely!
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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gangrenous wrote:To be honest UAP getting 4% of the vote sounds like fraud. That’s too many silly people surely!
Probably the 4% of the population that aren't vaccinated
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Botman wrote:
greeneyed wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:43 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
Stay tuned on that one! If the LNP continue to lurch further right, there is every chance the Nats could be the major party in a few elections times! :lol:
Looks like Big George has dropped the ball quitting when he did and joining One Notion!
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by T_R »

The Nickman wrote:
Botman wrote:
greeneyed wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:43 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
Stay tuned on that one! If the LNP continue to lurch further right, there is every chance the Nats could be the major party in a few elections times! Image
Looks like Big George has dropped the ball quitting when he did and joining One Notion!
He doubled his payout by losing an election as opposed to retiring. Highly lucrative quirk of the system that he blatantly rorted.

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You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Northern Raider »

Dr Zaius wrote: May 23, 2022, 7:47 pm
gangrenous wrote:To be honest UAP getting 4% of the vote sounds like fraud. That’s too many silly people surely!
Probably the 4% of the population that aren't vaccinated
Definite correlation there.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Dr Zaius »

The Nickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:Surely they can't go with Dutton? Would be madness.
Yeah, it would absolutely be ludicrous, it’s almost an unwinnable platform to base the next election on

Like I said before, they’d completely lose my vote fronting up with Dutton
Entirely depends on how many horcruxes he has made.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by The Nickman »

Dr Zaius wrote:
The Nickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:Surely they can't go with Dutton? Would be madness.
Yeah, it would absolutely be ludicrous, it’s almost an unwinnable platform to base the next election on

Like I said before, they’d completely lose my vote fronting up with Dutton
Entirely depends on how many horcruxes he has made.
Oh, he’s made plenty
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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I'll just leave this here Image
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

NBA coach’s incredible press conference goes viral after mass shooting: https://www.news.com.au/sport/american- ... cb146b0028

Hear hear.

Shame on you American senate.
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