Manly Sea Eagles 2022

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dubby
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by dubby »

gangrenous wrote: July 26, 2022, 7:36 pm
dubby wrote:360 openly said there has always been gay players but they want to avoid making their personal life public because they don't want to get involved in being a public figure regarding this issue.
Oddly I’ve heard there were Jews who didn’t want their religion public in Nazi Germany too!

Oh Godwin’s law… oops
You can do better than a straw man, gangers
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Boomercm »

Riaan wrote: July 26, 2022, 3:10 pm This is all just corporate virtue signalling gone spectacular wrong😆 sucked in Manly.
spot on
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Boomercm »

julian87 wrote: July 26, 2022, 7:23 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 26, 2022, 7:07 pm Just watching the discussion on NRL 360. Some of the stuff said…

What a sorry state of the world. The idea that the game is inclusive has been shattered today, by the reaction from some people in the game and fans to this. And it is little wonder that only one male player in NRL history has ever felt able to openly say they are gay. If you need proof that the game and community are not inclusive, we now certainly have it.
This is the crux of it. It's actually a slap in the face to the gay community to whack on a pride jersey when only 1 out of hundreds of gay players has been confident enough to be out, so to speak. IMO
how good would it have been if they just let the islander players wear the non rainbow jersey? the rainbow gets represented alongside the old cults. Playing side by side in the trenches. Now that really would have sent a message about tolerance and being inclusive.

The problem is that this new cult is not much different to the old one.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Manbush »

Nor are you a theologian Dubby and nothing you posted disputes the sabbath being the 7th day, your also the first Christian I’ve ever heard make that anti biblical claim.


Exodus 20:8-11
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Genesis 2:3

Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Now if the sabbath was any day why wasn’t Jesus aware of this?


Mark 2:23-28

One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?” He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.” Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by greeneyed »

dubby wrote: July 26, 2022, 7:32 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 26, 2022, 7:07 pm Just watching the discussion on NRL 360. Some of the stuff said…

What a sorry state of the world. The idea that the game is inclusive has been shattered today, by the reaction from some people in the game and fans to this. And it is little wonder that only one male player in NRL history has ever felt able to openly say they are gay. If you need proof that the game and community are not inclusive, we now certainly have it.
Very sad you've selected to write only the part which supports your view.

360 openly said there has always been gay players but they want to avoid making their personal life public because they don't want to get involved in being a public figure regarding this issue.

Rugby league was the first Australian sport to appoint an aboriginal captain of a national team, and the first to have a player come out as gay.

By and large most people keep their sexuality, politics and religious beliefs private.
So because Paul Kent says that, it must mean it’s all OK… All of that was what I was referring to. The warped perspective, the self justification, the tokenism, claims that concern for basic human rights is “woke politics”, was truly sad to see.

By and large heterosexual people don’t keep their sexuality private, yet we have only one gay male NRL player who has felt free to share that more widely. No others in nearly 30 years. That’s how inclusive the game and society is.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Boomercm »

I was in a couple of atheist societies in my university days. Had many beers with like-minded folk and campaigned pretty hard against the political influence of religious groups.

And at every one of our meetings we invited folk from the Christian groups. And at just about every meeting one or two of them were good enough to come along and join selected pats of the discussions. And these were often the best parts.

It is sad to see what has eventuated from the sort of groups I belonged to. An intellectually lazy bunch of zealots with nothing more to add than calling religious folk paedophiles and nazis. Folk very content to pat themselves on the back for being be the bigger bigot.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Pete Cash »

The point being boomercm that they cannot just wear anything you like. It's called a uniform for a reason and the players have an obligation to represent the club. For the record if your post is in reference to my deleted post I wasn't calling religious people paedophiles lol. I was picking the most inflammatory thing I could think of for the players to wear

The idea that players should have the freedom to wear any symbols that they like is utterly ridiculous.

Could a player wear the insignia of a terrorist group ?

Could a player wear an advertisement for their uncles sex shop as a free sponsorship

Could a manly player cut off the many logo and stitch on a roosters one ?

The idea that they should be able to wear any symbols they want is a silly silly argument
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Raider Azz »


Boomercm wrote:I was in a couple of atheist societies in my university days. Had many beers with like-minded folk and campaigned pretty hard against the political influence of religious groups.

And at every one of our meetings we invited folk from the Christian groups. And at just about every meeting one or two of them were good enough to come along and join selected pats of the discussions. And these were often the best parts.

It is sad to see what has eventuated from the sort of groups I belonged to. An intellectually lazy bunch of zealots with nothing more to add than calling religious folk paedophiles and nazis. Folk very content to pat themselves on the back for being be the bigger bigot.
Stop pretending you're the reasonable one because people don't want to debate you over whether a group of people deserve the same rights as everybody else. There's nothing more to talk about. Progress will happen whether you like it or not. We don't need to "come together" on human rights.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... guess what, it might actually be a duck!

Already heard "virtue signalling" in this thread and now you've just pulled out "calling me a bigot makes you the bigot"
Where's my reactionary bingo card!?

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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Riaan »

How is this not virtue signalling? If Manly were truly inclusive they would get rid of their Christian section of playing group, as they have shown that they can’t play nicely with everyone.
But as I understand it Dessie apologised to them today??? Sorry, but what a joke if they had a shred of dignity they wouldn’t wear this jersey as it actually means nothing to them and they can’t even back up their words with actions.
What a sorry saga
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Raider Azz »

Riaan wrote:How is this not virtue signalling? If Manly were truly inclusive they would get rid of their Christian section of playing group, as they have shown that they can’t play nicely with everyone.
But as I understand it Dessie apologised to them today??? Sorry, but what a joke if they had a shred of dignity they wouldn’t wear this jersey as it actually means nothing to them and they can’t even back up their words with actions.
What a sorry saga
I recommend reading the article ian roberts wrote, will give you plenty of perspective. This initiative may be small, but it makes a real difference to lives.

I wore my Manly jersey, and my sexuality, with pride. Now I’m heartbroken

My heart breaks that seven players from my old club of Manly refuse to wear rainbow jerseys to celebrate inclusivity. This is a difficult conversation we have to have and I am here for it. Allow me to work my way towards conversing with those players. I am trying not to be angry.

Read more: https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sport/ ... 5b4qq.html

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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Manbush »

Riaan wrote: July 26, 2022, 9:33 pm How is this not virtue signalling? If Manly were truly inclusive they would get rid of their Christian section of playing group, as they have shown that they can’t play nicely with everyone.
But as I understand it Dessie apologised to them today??? Sorry, but what a joke if they had a shred of dignity they wouldn’t wear this jersey as it actually means nothing to them and they can’t even back up their words with actions.
What a sorry saga
I’m confident you didn’t mean it this way but the way it comes across is way too broad as I’m sure there are other Christians within the Manly playing group supportive of inclusion.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

greeneyed wrote: July 26, 2022, 7:07 pm Just watching the discussion on NRL 360. Some of the stuff said…

What a sorry state of the world. The idea that the game is inclusive has been shattered today, by the reaction from some people in the game and fans to this. And it is little wonder that only one male player in NRL history has ever felt able to openly say they are gay. If you need proof that the game and community are not inclusive, we now certainly have it.
I used to have a bit of time for Paul Kent, even if I didn't agree with him he would present entertaining arguments. That's gone after his views over the past couple of nights. Basically the 360 crew said it's too hard to educate these players on why inclusivity matters so we should just bury our heads in the sand and pretend there is no LGBTQI+ community in the world.

I wonder if an NRL player refused to play because of the ethnicity of an opponent, or because they refuse to wear an indigenous jersey if they'd be so willing to side with the player?

Their argument that there shouldn't be a Pride round because whenever an athelete comes out it's front page news was the final straw. I can't even understand what their argument was, as to my mind reducing any stigma attached with sexuality is the point of an inclusion round.

Add to this they basically tarred 50% of the comp as bigoted overzealous religous nutters. I doubt that number would reach even 15%, and if it did then so be it. Those embracing inclusivity and reaching out to a marginalised minority group will be on the right side of history. That is really the worst part of this, you've got young adults making decisions not to play based on very limited life experience. They'll have to live with this decision.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Coastalraider »

Boomer can you please stop referring to the LGBTQ community as a cult. It’s like referring to women as a cult, because they wanted equality. Or aboriginals as a cult. Religions and cults are choices individuals make, sexuality is who a person IS. Condemning someone because of who they are and comparing to religions and cults which is what someone chooses to believe is archaic.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by pickles »

The thing that gets me most about this is the objection on cultural or religious grounds has been incredibly poorly articulated.

My understanding is that Manly did this as a way of demonstrating that rugby league is an inclusive space where diversity is celebrated and everyone can feel safe. Is there a religious or cultural objection to this conceptually? Do the players genuinely feel that the LGBTQI community is not welcome in rugby league?

That seems to be the message that is being sent and based on a lot of the commentary around this the underlying homophobia in rugby league circles is incredibly strong.

Full credit to Manly for pushing ahead with this in a way that could genuinely cost them a final berth this year but I’m extremely disappointed in the response of people towards this, especially from a religious group that purports to follow someone who preached tolerance and acceptance of marginalised groups.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Botman »

pickles wrote: July 27, 2022, 8:35 am The thing that gets me most about this is the objection on cultural or religious grounds has been incredibly poorly articulated.

My understanding is that Manly did this as a way of demonstrating that rugby league is an inclusive space where diversity is celebrated and everyone can feel safe. Is there a religious or cultural objection to this conceptually? Do the players genuinely feel that the LGBTQI community is not welcome in rugby league?

That seems to be the message that is being sent and based on a lot of the commentary around this the underlying homophobia in rugby league circles is incredibly strong.

Full credit to Manly for pushing ahead with this in a way that could genuinely cost them a final berth this year but I’m extremely disappointed in the response of people towards this, especially from a religious group that purports to follow someone who preached tolerance and acceptance of marginalised groups.
That's the biggest disappointment for me.
Whether it's on sites like this and LU, comments on facebook and comments on tv/radio by presenters it sadly become clear there is still a huge amount of homophobia in RL culture.

Literally people on this site are calling the LGBTQI a cult :lol:
Like what the hell is wrong with you if that's where you're at. Absolutely cooked.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by The Nickman »

This whole thing just pisses me off. The reaction of the players is bad enough, but the reaction of fans trying to justify their actions on social media (and even in here) is just as disappointing, probably even moreso.

It's just plain bigotry, pure and simple. Stop trying to dress it up as anything else. Hypocritical *****.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by pickles »

Botman wrote:
pickles wrote: July 27, 2022, 8:35 am The thing that gets me most about this is the objection on cultural or religious grounds has been incredibly poorly articulated.

My understanding is that Manly did this as a way of demonstrating that rugby league is an inclusive space where diversity is celebrated and everyone can feel safe. Is there a religious or cultural objection to this conceptually? Do the players genuinely feel that the LGBTQI community is not welcome in rugby league?

That seems to be the message that is being sent and based on a lot of the commentary around this the underlying homophobia in rugby league circles is incredibly strong.

Full credit to Manly for pushing ahead with this in a way that could genuinely cost them a final berth this year but I’m extremely disappointed in the response of people towards this, especially from a religious group that purports to follow someone who preached tolerance and acceptance of marginalised groups.
That's the biggest disappointment for me.
Whether it's on sites like this and LU, comments on facebook and comments on tv/radio by presenters it sadly become clear there is still a huge amount of homophobia in RL culture.

Literally people on this site are calling the LGBTQI a cult :lol:
Like what the hell is wrong with you if that's where you're at. Absolutely cooked.
Yep! Comparing how a person is born to religious belief is next level stuff.

I also find it difficult to believe that people can’t see the benefit of having a society that is inclusive and also not agreeing personally with how other people live.

I have never seen anyone complain or raise any issue with players praying together after games. I think it’s fantastic that they are able to be open about that so publicly and it’s a massive shame that those same people are unable to be tolerant and inclusive towards others.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Manbush »

It comes down to respect and wanting everyone to be recognized as human and deserving of that respect, unfortunately for some that seems too much.

My views on religion are obvious but if once a year my work place asked us to wear a Star of David to remember the struggles of Jews I’d happily wear one even though I don’t agree with their beliefs, wearing it wouldn’t be supporting their beliefs it would be supporting the people.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Seiffert82 »

Wow. Manly has really stuffed this up.

All during the women in league round no less.

The whole thing has completely undermined whatever it is they were intending to do, has disenfranchised a big segment of their playing group (and their communities) and has taken the focus off what is quite a good initiative from the NRL regarding the huge contribution women have made to the sport.

A lot of people just look foolish as a result, including a large proportion of the community with religious beliefs, who may or may not support the stand these individuals have been somewhat wedged into making on whatever religious, cultural or family grounds they are also representing.

Being a little facetious, I'm also looking forward to the next club making a stand against illicit substance abuse, impacts of gambling, treatment of refugees, child exploitation, illegal fishing, plastics recycling and climate change. Every round can have a socially conscious theme!

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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by The Nickman »

Seiffert82 wrote: July 27, 2022, 2:18 pm Wow. Manly has really stuffed this up.

All during the women in league round no less.

The whole thing has completely undermined whatever it is they were intending to do, has disenfranchised a big segment of their playing group (and their communities) and has taken the focus off what is quite a good initiative from the NRL regarding the huge contribution women have made to the sport.

A lot of people just look foolish as a result, including a large proportion of the community with religious beliefs, who may or may not support the stand these individuals have been somewhat wedged into making on whatever religious, cultural or family grounds they are also representing.

Being a little facetious, I'm also looking forward to the next club making a stand against illicit substance abuse, impacts of gambling, treatment of refugees, child exploitation, illegal fishing, plastics recycling and climate change. Every round can have a socially conscious theme!

The NRL is here to help!
I know you're being facetious, but equating those clear lifestyle choices with something which is known to absolutely NOT be a lifestyle choice is the biggest mistake people make in these types of discussions.

None of those above mentioned societal issues should be remotely considered in the same conversation as being gay or transgender.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by The Nickman »

Here's a very good video of Trent Robinson speaking out against the Manly players who refused to wear the jersey... he continues to impress me every time I've seen him speak in either a press conference or interview, or met him in person

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/more-sp ... 26ae874501
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by The Nickman »

Wow, powerful statement by Jordan there. Imagine trying to feel normal in the world, trying to find your place and then you see a bunch of high profile football players taking this kind of stance against you and then seeing complete **** on social media who don't have a dog in the fight trying to justify their actions.

No wonder people kill themselves. Life's hard enough as it is without this kind of **** on top.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Manbush »

I’m currently in Pattaya for holidays and it’s amazing how much more accepting they are of people who are different, western culture could learn a lot.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Raider Azz »

Manbush wrote:I’m currently in Pattaya for holidays and it’s amazing how much more accepting they are of people who are different, western culture could learn a lot.
You should probably do a little reading into lgbtq+ rights in thailand. it is not the paradise you seem to think it is, for locals in particular

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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Manbush »

Raider Azz wrote: July 27, 2022, 4:39 pm
Manbush wrote:I’m currently in Pattaya for holidays and it’s amazing how much more accepting they are of people who are different, western culture could learn a lot.
You should probably do a little reading into lgbtq+ rights in thailand. it is not the paradise you seem to think it is, for locals in particular

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Yeah no idea about the laws etc but I see how they’re treated by the people here in Pattaya anyway.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by cat »

This should not be a discussion around sexuality at the end of the day this is women in league round, not equality round.

The rainbow jersey does not represent women, wear it any other round I dont care but not this round.

It would be the equivalent of the raiders (or any club) wearing a multicultural jersey for indigenous round, its not ok.

This round is to recognise the role women play within the rugby league community not Ian Roberts!

Yes some women identify as part of the lgbq community but not all of us.

Keep religion , homophobia etc out of this argument.

This week is women in league round and Manly has offended a whole bunch of women whom this jersey does not represent by doing this during our round.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Botman »

Always trust Cat to have some of the worst takes imaginable.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by cat »

Botman wrote: July 27, 2022, 7:44 pm Always trust Cat to have some of the worst takes imaginable.
Why?
Explain to me how having a pride jersey during women in league round is representing all women?

I have no issue with clubs wearing a pride jersey but not during women in league round
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Botman »

It's not representing all women. But as my wife was right to mention the other day, slapping a bit of pink on a jersey doesnt really represent all women either, some women dont like pink. Nothing represents all women, because like every other segement of the population, they are not a monolith.

There are many women in the LGBTQI community that are making major contributions to our game at all levels. And 1 team, ONE, of 16 decided to put something on their jersey that recognises those people and their contribution. And seems completely and totally reasonable to me.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by cat »

Pink is the traditional colour for women, I'm not a person who wears much pink but it's the colour that represents women
Or the clubs can do things like we have in the past with the vykarie logo

Thats how you represent ALL women

The rainbow pride symbol represents the lgbq+ community of any gender

As I said happy to have a pride jersey/round just not this weekend.

Would you be happy if the raiders had a multicultural jeresy and wore it during indigenous round? Hey Aboriginal and Torrens Strait Islander are cultures, I'm sure they would be happy to share their round with the Greeks, English, Chinese etc
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Botman »

According to you
Not my wife. She doesnt feel represented by pink.
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Botman »

cat wrote: July 27, 2022, 8:14 pm Would you be happy if the raiders had a multicultural jeresy and wore it during indigenous round? Hey Aboriginal and Torrens Strait Islander are cultures, I'm sure they would be happy to share their round with the Greeks, English, Chinese etc
Yeah, that seems fine to me. We can chew gum and walk at the same time here. We can recognise and appreciate indigenous culture in RL and also pay homage to other cultures that dont get their shine

To save you the bother in future, im pretty much going to answer yes to anything that is about helping RL break down it's barriers for entry and promoting inclusivity. My position is whoever you are, you should feel recognised and welcomed by the RL community. RL is for everyone. And whatever the code and it's clubs can do to help make marginalised groups feel included and recognised is a good thing.
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Laurie Daley
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by cat »

Botman wrote: July 27, 2022, 8:26 pm
cat wrote: July 27, 2022, 8:14 pm Would you be happy if the raiders had a multicultural jeresy and wore it during indigenous round? Hey Aboriginal and Torrens Strait Islander are cultures, I'm sure they would be happy to share their round with the Greeks, English, Chinese etc
Yeah, that seems fine to me. We can chew gum and walk at the same time here. We can recognise and appreciate indigenous culture in RL and also pay homage to other cultures that dont get their shine

To save you the bother in future, im pretty much going to answer yes to anything that is about helping RL break down it's barriers for entry and promoting inclusivity.
Maybe ask Jack , Seb and Savage how they feel about that

You have no idea, these rounds are about celebrating a particular group of people
- women in women's round
- service personnel during ANZAC round
- Aboriginal and Torres Strait people during Indigenous round

Inclusively is done through the policies and practices all year round of the NRL
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Botman
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Botman »

OK. But you asked me how i'd feel. So im not sure why how i feel has anything to do with Jack, Seb, Savage, or Joe, Bill and Bobby, or Mary, Margaret and Marge :lol:

These rounds are about promoting the codes inclusivity. This round is about women, some of the women we'd like to recognise and celebrate are also in the LGBTQI+ community. It's really not a big deal :lol:

And your the only person i've seen so far to even mention this angle.
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