Football IQ
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Football IQ
I wasn’t that keen to start a new topic but wasn’t sure where to put this one. If the mods feel it belongs in a different thread, feel free to move it.
I think this is the most glaring issue for our squad. We are, to put it simply, a dumb football team. Some may say this is coaching, but given that is unlikely to change any time soon, I think we need to address it with players in the squad. Just from recent weeks:
* We struggled to use the wind against St. George with tactical, early long kicking.
* We insisted on bombing to Saab against Manly, who is 6’4 (instead of bombing closer to the posts to put Jack against DCE or Harper).
* We don’t target weakness in an opposition defence - it was clear from the first half against Manly that Suli/Funa was a huge issue for them, yet we gave Timoko ball on very few occasions on an edge (and the times he did get it we looked likely).
* When playing against 12 men, we never look to exploit the numerical advantage where it is (for example, on the edge where Fifita was defending against Titans).
* We kick early with no thought to context of the game. The best time to kick early is on a tackle where you have decent ruck speed, but have been battered in previous tackles of the set, and need to change momentum (Cameron Smith and DCE masters of this). We kick early when we already HAVE momentum, and give the ball to the opposition. It makes no sense, particularly this season when momentum and possession are key. We use early kicking to swing momentum against us.
* Going for long kicks out on the full on a penalty when there is zero gain and risk of not finding touch.
* Going from playing crash ball after crash ball in the opposition 20, to not playing them at all and instead shifting the ball from a slow ruck with clunky ball movement.
* Looking for offloads when they aren’t necessary, and them tucking the ball under the arm for 4 one out hit ups with 3 minutes left on the clock.
I am sure we can think of other examples. How do we fix it? I can’t see obvious answers on the player market (perhaps MrPosh can suggest someone from the UK). A new assistant coach? We have had this problem for a while.
I think this is the most glaring issue for our squad. We are, to put it simply, a dumb football team. Some may say this is coaching, but given that is unlikely to change any time soon, I think we need to address it with players in the squad. Just from recent weeks:
* We struggled to use the wind against St. George with tactical, early long kicking.
* We insisted on bombing to Saab against Manly, who is 6’4 (instead of bombing closer to the posts to put Jack against DCE or Harper).
* We don’t target weakness in an opposition defence - it was clear from the first half against Manly that Suli/Funa was a huge issue for them, yet we gave Timoko ball on very few occasions on an edge (and the times he did get it we looked likely).
* When playing against 12 men, we never look to exploit the numerical advantage where it is (for example, on the edge where Fifita was defending against Titans).
* We kick early with no thought to context of the game. The best time to kick early is on a tackle where you have decent ruck speed, but have been battered in previous tackles of the set, and need to change momentum (Cameron Smith and DCE masters of this). We kick early when we already HAVE momentum, and give the ball to the opposition. It makes no sense, particularly this season when momentum and possession are key. We use early kicking to swing momentum against us.
* Going for long kicks out on the full on a penalty when there is zero gain and risk of not finding touch.
* Going from playing crash ball after crash ball in the opposition 20, to not playing them at all and instead shifting the ball from a slow ruck with clunky ball movement.
* Looking for offloads when they aren’t necessary, and them tucking the ball under the arm for 4 one out hit ups with 3 minutes left on the clock.
I am sure we can think of other examples. How do we fix it? I can’t see obvious answers on the player market (perhaps MrPosh can suggest someone from the UK). A new assistant coach? We have had this problem for a while.
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Re: Football IQ
This is the funny thing about Sam Williams. We keep hearing how great he is between the ears, while physically lacking the tools to be a regular first grader. Then he comes in and dinks up mini-bombs to Saab for 80 minutes. If someone like Williams, who is regarded as a having a high footy IQ around the club, is unable to identify the flaw in that gameplan then I don't hold out much hope for us improving things internally. We'd pretty much need to recruit the finished product from another side to provide this, imagine if things with Williams had fallen through pre-season and we now had Reynolds joining us for the next three.
Re: Football IQ
Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
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Re: Football IQ
Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:14 am This is the funny thing about Sam Williams. We keep hearing how great he is between the ears, while physically lacking the tools to be a regular first grader. Then he comes in and dinks up mini-bombs
Re: Football IQ
Agree with this.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Hodgson, Wighton, Whitehead, Papa, Rapana (sometimes) - all players who can read a game and react, if they're allowed to.
There's no shortage of football IQ in the team, although the points in the OP are all valid.
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Re: Football IQ
I agree that the issues likely stem from coaching more so than football IQ. Another issue I'd place above football IQ but below coaching is leadership. In 2019, I think a few players stepped up and took responsibility. To his credit, Ricky did a good job there. People often don't see it as too important but former players always speak of how important it is in a successful side. You want somebody who can rally the troops, that has the respect of the playing group. We needed Hodgson to be that man in 2021 and he didn't step up to the plate - in fact, he stood down. But not just a knock on Hodgson - all of the senior guys need to stand up and take responsibility here besides maybe Jordy Raps who did step up and take ownership. Wighton needed to put his hand up for that 2-pointer attempt against Manly, for example. Things like that. We need to sort this issue out before next season and that includes a new captain imo.
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Re: Football IQ
My thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
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Re: Football IQ
I haven’t formed an opinion either way, but I still get shudders when Blake Austin asked an interviewer what game management was.afgtnk wrote:Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
I think it’s a little from column A and a little from column B. Maybe the coach had a game plan in mind for Sam to Dink Saab with bombs, but Sam should have been able to say “Y’know what, this isn’t working…”
Unless he was worried of being burnt for not dinking
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Re: Football IQ
Did he ask what tackling was as well?
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Re: Football IQ
Jamie Soward said when first taking over at the Dragons, Wayne Bennett asked him to name the top three things he was good at (unsurprisingly kicking was number one), and to focus on those.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
Soward was used as basically a kicking specialist. It was great coaching.
Ricky has no respect for football smarts other than grinding and shutting up shop, that's why it doesn't reflect in our players. He is hellbent on effort and "going into the trenches" and sees football as war rather than an art or science...
Re: Football IQ
I would argue that if Wighton and Hodgson supposedly have a high footy IQ, they don’t show it very often, or they consistently fail to physically execute what their brain is telling them to do.MrPosh wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:28 amAgree with this.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Hodgson, Wighton, Whitehead, Papa, Rapana (sometimes) - all players who can read a game and react, if they're allowed to.
There's no shortage of football IQ in the team, although the points in the OP are all valid.
Both makes so many dumb decisions every game. Wighton with his concrete feet grubber kicks that go about 20m too deep. You’d think he would have practised by now (in 3 years of playing five eighth) how to properly weight a grubber kick rather than just booting it as hard as he can. He at least seems to have stopped kicking out in the full every game, except when we actually need him to, like in a penalty situation. He’s a strong runner but dumb as dog ****.
Hodgson sometimes shows good vision with a successful spread, crash ball, or 40/20, but then compounds it with a crash ball after crash ball when he should have spread it, doing a stupid jink and dummy out of dummy half every play instead of just giving early ball to the halves or forwards, and a second tackle **** grubber kick into opposition legs when we’re attacking their line.
I’d argue both players are getting worse, which is why we look so much better when Starling comes on. Both are such dumb players. We’re a dumb team with dumb coaching.
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Re: Football IQ
100%. I think Id add Harry Grant TBH. He reads and reacts very well too.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
In regards to bombing to Saab, it could be, like bombing to Tupou, they don't want him taking the 1st hitup. It takes the 50/50 out of the bomb, but it's a tactic to start a defensive set.
That said, if the coach can say 2 things in regard to this tactic:
1. Bomb Saab, I don't want him taking hitup 1.
2. Consider the defesives sets. I want you to bomb the back 3 to setup for tackle 1. Ideally wingers to pin them on a sideline.
1 is suuuuper specific. The 2nd requires the player to read and react to the situation of the game within the game plan structure.
I think its obvious to most of us, Ricky coaches with the #1 method and doesn't deviate. Which is funny, coz as a player he was a #2 or #3 "off the cuff" player.
Re: Football IQ
It would 100% be something along those lines.Matt wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:18 am100%. I think Id add Harry Grant TBH. He reads and reacts very well too.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
In regards to bombing to Saab, it could be, like bombing to Tupou, they don't want him taking the 1st hitup. It takes the 50/50 out of the bomb, but it's a tactic to start a defensive set.
That said, if the coach can say 2 things in regard to this tactic:
1. Bomb Saab, I don't want him taking hitup 1.
2. Consider the defesives sets. I want you to bomb the back 3 to setup for tackle 1. Ideally wingers to pin them on a sideline.
1 is suuuuper specific. The 2nd requires the player to read and react to the situation of the game within the game plan structure.
I think its obvious to most of us, Ricky coaches with the #1 method and doesn't deviate. Which is funny, coz as a player he was a #2 or #3 "off the cuff" player.
People looked at that whole bombing to Saab thing the wrong way.
We didn't keep kicking to him in order to attack. That was clearly not the plan or the intention. Our attacking kicks are very rare. If we got something out of it, then it would've been a bonus.
It was undoubtedly a defensive measure used so they start their sets in a certain position. Flows nicely with the negative, grinding tactics Rocky S has been doubled down on.
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Re: Football IQ
The conservative game plan we play is trash. On the two or three occasions we didn't play that garbage, we yielded some good results.
Re: Football IQ
It's a stupid tactic if that's what it was. Saab isn't a dangerous weapon for taking hit up 1, he's a lanky string bean. The kind of player you don't want taking hit up 1 are the stocky strong metre eaters like Brian To'o. If Saab were to take a hit up near his own goal line you could just grab one of those twig legs and drive him up and backwards. His strength is speed in space, like Charlie Staines or Alex Johnston. These aren't the guys to be feared coming off their goal line, they're too skinny and weak. They're dangerous with space down the sideline, generally within 20m of your try line.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:26 amIt would 100% be something along those lines.Matt wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:18 am100%. I think Id add Harry Grant TBH. He reads and reacts very well too.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
In regards to bombing to Saab, it could be, like bombing to Tupou, they don't want him taking the 1st hitup. It takes the 50/50 out of the bomb, but it's a tactic to start a defensive set.
That said, if the coach can say 2 things in regard to this tactic:
1. Bomb Saab, I don't want him taking hitup 1.
2. Consider the defesives sets. I want you to bomb the back 3 to setup for tackle 1. Ideally wingers to pin them on a sideline.
1 is suuuuper specific. The 2nd requires the player to read and react to the situation of the game within the game plan structure.
I think its obvious to most of us, Ricky coaches with the #1 method and doesn't deviate. Which is funny, coz as a player he was a #2 or #3 "off the cuff" player.
People looked at that whole bombing to Saab thing the wrong way.
We didn't keep kicking to him in order to attack. That was clearly not the plan or the intention. Our attacking kicks are very rare. If we got something out of it, then it would've been a bonus.
It was undoubtedly a defensive measure used so they start their sets in a certain position. Flows nicely with the negative, grinding tactics Rocky S has been doubled down on.
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Re: Football IQ
I disagree. You can see Wighton moving further wide and going to leap for the ball on several occasions. It is not like Saab is a noted metre eater. His metres come from line breaks in his own half, from shifts.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:26 amIt would 100% be something along those lines.Matt wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:18 am100%. I think Id add Harry Grant TBH. He reads and reacts very well too.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
In regards to bombing to Saab, it could be, like bombing to Tupou, they don't want him taking the 1st hitup. It takes the 50/50 out of the bomb, but it's a tactic to start a defensive set.
That said, if the coach can say 2 things in regard to this tactic:
1. Bomb Saab, I don't want him taking hitup 1.
2. Consider the defesives sets. I want you to bomb the back 3 to setup for tackle 1. Ideally wingers to pin them on a sideline.
1 is suuuuper specific. The 2nd requires the player to read and react to the situation of the game within the game plan structure.
I think its obvious to most of us, Ricky coaches with the #1 method and doesn't deviate. Which is funny, coz as a player he was a #2 or #3 "off the cuff" player.
People looked at that whole bombing to Saab thing the wrong way.
We didn't keep kicking to him in order to attack. That was clearly not the plan or the intention. Our attacking kicks are very rare. If we got something out of it, then it would've been a bonus.
It was undoubtedly a defensive measure used so they start their sets in a certain position. Flows nicely with the negative, grinding tactics Rocky S has been doubled down on.
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Re: Football IQ
Spot on there, too conservative, too predictive. Teams shut down our big guys too easily, stopping any 2nd phase play.Raiders_Pat wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:36 am The conservative game plan we play is trash. On the two or three occasions we didn't play that garbage, we yielded some good results.
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Re: Football IQ
I've said this all year that our footy smarts aren't high. . You would think Hodgo would be the smart one , game manager but we continually do stupid things.
Example was last week , rushed field goal in the dying seconds against 12 men. There isn't any high percentage play but any other than the field goal attempt by a non regular kicker had to be better.
Kicking early when we have been under the pump in defence drives me crazy , we do it so often.
For me I dont think we have the players who can game manage or play heads up footy therefore our coach then has to game plan around that deficiency.
Example was last week , rushed field goal in the dying seconds against 12 men. There isn't any high percentage play but any other than the field goal attempt by a non regular kicker had to be better.
Kicking early when we have been under the pump in defence drives me crazy , we do it so often.
For me I dont think we have the players who can game manage or play heads up footy therefore our coach then has to game plan around that deficiency.
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Re: Football IQ
Hodgson is not a good game manager, he's a good eyes up hooker (when he had the speed to take advantage of it, not sure he does anymore). Kicking early is just his default play, he's done it for years, nothing particularly smart about it
I wonder if we're actually thinking too much, all the micro things: where to get to on the field, when to start setting up a play etc... and ignoring the more pressing
macro issues of how we need to attack generally, having players in motion etc
I wonder if we're actually thinking too much, all the micro things: where to get to on the field, when to start setting up a play etc... and ignoring the more pressing
macro issues of how we need to attack generally, having players in motion etc
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Re: Football IQ
Horrible tactic if thats the case. There's nothing special about Saab's hit ups that you want to keep him away from it. This is not To'o or Sivo. I see no value in meekly handing over the ball on the last tackle in the attacking zone so you can prepare for solid defensive set. That's grindball 101.Matt wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:18 am100%. I think Id add Harry Grant TBH. He reads and reacts very well too.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
In regards to bombing to Saab, it could be, like bombing to Tupou, they don't want him taking the 1st hitup. It takes the 50/50 out of the bomb, but it's a tactic to start a defensive set.
That said, if the coach can say 2 things in regard to this tactic:
1. Bomb Saab, I don't want him taking hitup 1.
2. Consider the defesives sets. I want you to bomb the back 3 to setup for tackle 1. Ideally wingers to pin them on a sideline.
1 is suuuuper specific. The 2nd requires the player to read and react to the situation of the game within the game plan structure.
I think its obvious to most of us, Ricky coaches with the #1 method and doesn't deviate. Which is funny, coz as a player he was a #2 or #3 "off the cuff" player.
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Re: Football IQ
Gents, I agree whole heartedly. Saab isnt Tupou when it comes to meters. However, like others have mentioned, it SCREAMS grind it out, over coached football. Which became extinct 2 or 3 Rds into 2020.
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Re: Football IQ
Yup and when you talk football IQ a huge part of that equation is thinking on your feet and challenging the opposition when your game plan fails to put them under pressure. We just seem to hammer away with the same plan even when there's no evidence to suggest it's succeeding.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 12:28 pmHorrible tactic if thats the case. There's nothing special about Saab's hit ups that you want to keep him away from it. This is not To'o or Sivo. I see no value in meekly handing over the ball on the last tackle in the attacking zone so you can prepare for solid defensive set. That's grindball 101.Matt wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:18 am100%. I think Id add Harry Grant TBH. He reads and reacts very well too.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
In regards to bombing to Saab, it could be, like bombing to Tupou, they don't want him taking the 1st hitup. It takes the 50/50 out of the bomb, but it's a tactic to start a defensive set.
That said, if the coach can say 2 things in regard to this tactic:
1. Bomb Saab, I don't want him taking hitup 1.
2. Consider the defesives sets. I want you to bomb the back 3 to setup for tackle 1. Ideally wingers to pin them on a sideline.
1 is suuuuper specific. The 2nd requires the player to read and react to the situation of the game within the game plan structure.
I think its obvious to most of us, Ricky coaches with the #1 method and doesn't deviate. Which is funny, coz as a player he was a #2 or #3 "off the cuff" player.
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Re: Football IQ
For those that watched the Ricky special, he said that exact thing. He said something very close to, our game plan is season long, not 1 wk, not 1 month, all year long. Which means he is going to continue to try and bash down the locked door, rather than climb in the open window.Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 1:33 pmYup and when you talk football IQ a huge part of that equation is thinking on your feet and challenging the opposition when your game plan fails to put them under pressure. We just seem to hammer away with the same plan even when there's no evidence to suggest it's succeeding.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 12:28 pmHorrible tactic if thats the case. There's nothing special about Saab's hit ups that you want to keep him away from it. This is not To'o or Sivo. I see no value in meekly handing over the ball on the last tackle in the attacking zone so you can prepare for solid defensive set. That's grindball 101.Matt wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:18 am100%. I think Id add Harry Grant TBH. He reads and reacts very well too.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
In regards to bombing to Saab, it could be, like bombing to Tupou, they don't want him taking the 1st hitup. It takes the 50/50 out of the bomb, but it's a tactic to start a defensive set.
That said, if the coach can say 2 things in regard to this tactic:
1. Bomb Saab, I don't want him taking hitup 1.
2. Consider the defesives sets. I want you to bomb the back 3 to setup for tackle 1. Ideally wingers to pin them on a sideline.
1 is suuuuper specific. The 2nd requires the player to read and react to the situation of the game within the game plan structure.
I think its obvious to most of us, Ricky coaches with the #1 method and doesn't deviate. Which is funny, coz as a player he was a #2 or #3 "off the cuff" player.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: Football IQ
I’ve seen 3 of our boys in a tackle and still attempt a one on one strip.
We mastered this. Hodgo and Nami were the best.
It’s a skill we’ve lost or we’ve decided to do it less.
I get very frustrated watching us play. It’s coaching I reckon.
Look at the Chooks, their #7 is a handful of games into his career and so so young but fits into the Chooks way. Under the guidance of Cronk and coach Robbo.
Our #7 is a journeyman who gets a job done..end of. There’s no extra polish here.
We mastered this. Hodgo and Nami were the best.
It’s a skill we’ve lost or we’ve decided to do it less.
I get very frustrated watching us play. It’s coaching I reckon.
Look at the Chooks, their #7 is a handful of games into his career and so so young but fits into the Chooks way. Under the guidance of Cronk and coach Robbo.
Our #7 is a journeyman who gets a job done..end of. There’s no extra polish here.
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Re: Football IQ
As is the case with Ricky's interchanges, the reason why our in-game management is so baffling at times is because Ricky has written out game plans for every round prior to the season in word doc and converted it to pdf so that it is protected and can't be edited.
He therefore cannot make in game adjustments ever, no matter how obvious they may appear — because the pdf document won't let him.
He therefore cannot make in game adjustments ever, no matter how obvious they may appear — because the pdf document won't let him.
Up The Milk
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Re: Football IQ
It’s the simple stuff that does my head in.
In preparation for a match surely they watch video on players.
- Marty Tapow WILL offload guys. He’s been killing us for years with offloads. Stop the offloads.
- DONT kick the ball down Teddys throat, find the grass. Make him earn his yardage. He will carve us to shreds all day if you allow him to catch the ball with momentum.
- Daniel Tupou is 9ft tall, DONT kick the ball to his wing, let’s try the other side. That guy is 4ft.
- Whatever call you guys have to peel off in a tackle and go for a strip AINT WORKING.
- The captains challenge is just too much for some of our guys. Stooooopid.
- We still have halves that can’t put the ball in the ingoal to force repeat sets. Frawley the other night way too heavy and I recall it was a critical error AND Jack ? Wow…When a repeat set is needed Jack likes to see how big of a dent he can put in the advertising signage.
Of course under fatigue errors will be made but we can’t even master standing up, placing the ball on the ground and raking it back with yr foot.
Then when we’re behind on the scoreboard and need the ball we all of a sudden rush up and smash the ball runners for a whole set hoping for an opposition error. I love that energy from the lads. Can we do that when we are 12, 18 in front ? You have your foot on the throats..DONT TAKE IT OFF !!
In preparation for a match surely they watch video on players.
- Marty Tapow WILL offload guys. He’s been killing us for years with offloads. Stop the offloads.
- DONT kick the ball down Teddys throat, find the grass. Make him earn his yardage. He will carve us to shreds all day if you allow him to catch the ball with momentum.
- Daniel Tupou is 9ft tall, DONT kick the ball to his wing, let’s try the other side. That guy is 4ft.
- Whatever call you guys have to peel off in a tackle and go for a strip AINT WORKING.
- The captains challenge is just too much for some of our guys. Stooooopid.
- We still have halves that can’t put the ball in the ingoal to force repeat sets. Frawley the other night way too heavy and I recall it was a critical error AND Jack ? Wow…When a repeat set is needed Jack likes to see how big of a dent he can put in the advertising signage.
Of course under fatigue errors will be made but we can’t even master standing up, placing the ball on the ground and raking it back with yr foot.
Then when we’re behind on the scoreboard and need the ball we all of a sudden rush up and smash the ball runners for a whole set hoping for an opposition error. I love that energy from the lads. Can we do that when we are 12, 18 in front ? You have your foot on the throats..DONT TAKE IT OFF !!
Last edited by -PJ- on August 26, 2021, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Matt
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Re: Football IQ
Mickey_Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 1:48 pm As is the case with Ricky's interchanges, the reason why our in-game management is so baffling at times is because Ricky has written out game plans for every round prior to the season in word doc and converted it to pdf so that it is protected and can't be edited.
He therefore cannot make in game adjustments ever, no matter how obvious they may appear — because the pdf document won't let him.
agreed
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Re: Football IQ
This made me laugh far more than it should haveMickey_Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 1:48 pm As is the case with Ricky's interchanges, the reason why our in-game management is so baffling at times is because Ricky has written out game plans for every round prior to the season in word doc and converted it to pdf so that it is protected and can't be edited.
He therefore cannot make in game adjustments ever, no matter how obvious they may appear — because the pdf document won't let him.
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Re: Football IQ
I remember when I was about 12 I coached an u-7s football team and I had pre printed all the in game substitutions and the times when I would make those changes and then stuck them to my clipboard.Walter wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 3:30 pmThis made me laugh far more than it should haveMickey_Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 1:48 pm As is the case with Ricky's interchanges, the reason why our in-game management is so baffling at times is because Ricky has written out game plans for every round prior to the season in word doc and converted it to pdf so that it is protected and can't be edited.
He therefore cannot make in game adjustments ever, no matter how obvious they may appear — because the pdf document won't let him.
I knew at the time I was being pig headed and inflexible and I was 12 coaching a bunch of 7 year olds. Imagine what I think about that 14 years later.
**** I can't believe our NRL first grade coach does that.
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Re: Football IQ
I've heard he put in for an Adobe DC Pro licence after the Titans game but Donny blocked the expense claim.Mickey_Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 1:48 pm As is the case with Ricky's interchanges, the reason why our in-game management is so baffling at times is because Ricky has written out game plans for every round prior to the season in word doc and converted it to pdf so that it is protected and can't be edited.
He therefore cannot make in game adjustments ever, no matter how obvious they may appear — because the pdf document won't let him.
Re: Football IQ
Agreed.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Football IQ
Game Plan A : “Just get out there and Bleed Green for 80 minutes!”Canberra Milk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 10:58 amJamie Soward said when first taking over at the Dragons, Wayne Bennett asked him to name the top three things he was good at (unsurprisingly kicking was number one), and to focus on those.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
Soward was used as basically a kicking specialist. It was great coaching.
Ricky has no respect for football smarts other than grinding and shutting up shop, that's why it doesn't reflect in our players. He is hellbent on effort and "going into the trenches" and sees football as war rather than an art or science...
Game Plan B: Repeat Game Plan A
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Re: Football IQ
I think it was done so that Suli didn’t get hit up 2Northern Raider wrote:Horrible tactic if thats the case. There's nothing special about Saab's hit ups that you want to keep him away from it. This is not To'o or Sivo. I see no value in meekly handing over the ball on the last tackle in the attacking zone so you can prepare for solid defensive set. That's grindball 101.Matt wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:18 am100%. I think Id add Harry Grant TBH. He reads and reacts very well too.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
In regards to bombing to Saab, it could be, like bombing to Tupou, they don't want him taking the 1st hitup. It takes the 50/50 out of the bomb, but it's a tactic to start a defensive set.
That said, if the coach can say 2 things in regard to this tactic:
1. Bomb Saab, I don't want him taking hitup 1.
2. Consider the defesives sets. I want you to bomb the back 3 to setup for tackle 1. Ideally wingers to pin them on a sideline.
1 is suuuuper specific. The 2nd requires the player to read and react to the situation of the game within the game plan structure.
I think its obvious to most of us, Ricky coaches with the #1 method and doesn't deviate. Which is funny, coz as a player he was a #2 or #3 "off the cuff" player.
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Re: Football IQ
It wouldn't necessarily be about the threat that Saab may or may not offer.TongueFTW wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:57 amI disagree. You can see Wighton moving further wide and going to leap for the ball on several occasions. It is not like Saab is a noted metre eater. His metres come from line breaks in his own half, from shifts.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:26 amIt would 100% be something along those lines.Matt wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 11:18 am100%. I think Id add Harry Grant TBH. He reads and reacts very well too.Northern Raider wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 9:01 amMy thoughts too. Also comes back to the player's ability to interpret instructions and execute. That's where a guy like Bellamy has been so successful. He makes sure every player understands their role and delivers on it. That creates an environment where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. May also be a reason players that shine under Bellamy don't deliver as much at other clubs.afgtnk wrote: ↑August 26, 2021, 8:20 am Most of what you've mentioned is by and large coaching.
The coaches have eyes everywhere. They watch every bit of what's happening on the field. If a player is doing something repeatedly, it's because they're coached to do it. If they weren't, it'd be picked up almost immediately.
Football IQ in a player is different. That's the ability to read the game as it happens and adjust accordingly. That's where the Conks and Thurstons excelled. In the current game I'd put Cleary and Reynolds at the top of the tree.
In regards to bombing to Saab, it could be, like bombing to Tupou, they don't want him taking the 1st hitup. It takes the 50/50 out of the bomb, but it's a tactic to start a defensive set.
That said, if the coach can say 2 things in regard to this tactic:
1. Bomb Saab, I don't want him taking hitup 1.
2. Consider the defesives sets. I want you to bomb the back 3 to setup for tackle 1. Ideally wingers to pin them on a sideline.
1 is suuuuper specific. The 2nd requires the player to read and react to the situation of the game within the game plan structure.
I think its obvious to most of us, Ricky coaches with the #1 method and doesn't deviate. Which is funny, coz as a player he was a #2 or #3 "off the cuff" player.
People looked at that whole bombing to Saab thing the wrong way.
We didn't keep kicking to him in order to attack. That was clearly not the plan or the intention. Our attacking kicks are very rare. If we got something out of it, then it would've been a bonus.
It was undoubtedly a defensive measure used so they start their sets in a certain position. Flows nicely with the negative, grinding tactics Rocky S has been doubled down on.
It'd more likely be that the coaches have identified something with them coming out of yardage, and want their sets to start in a certain position.
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Re: Football IQ
On the other side, the coaches might want to consider sets that end with the Raiders in their opponents in goal. That hasn’t been a consideration for a while.