Coaching issues

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afgtnk
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by afgtnk »

Trade Tapine is about as good a take as the one years ago questioning if Tapine was any good or not
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Bluesbrother »

Asking for a friend - How's Andrew Webster going with his structured attack?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Seiffert82 »

Bluesbrother wrote:Asking for a friend - How's Andrew Webster going with his structured attack?
That's the interesting thing. The Warriors are top 2 in the comp in both set completions and posession %. They are making very few errors.

Yet they are bottom 5 in try assists.

The thing with them this year are the missed tackle and penalty conceded stats. Both near the top of the NRL this season.

Just highlights to me how important defence is and what that also means for your field position.

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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Botman »

I think a major problem with the Wahs has been a lack of evolution
They're broadly running the same stuff they ran last year to great success, but teams and coaches had all off season to look at that and figure it out

The double face ball for example was almost unstoppable last year and whilst it's having SOME joy this year, teams have figured out how to mark up on that move now.
I think they're also desperately missing Metcalf's speed and SJ isn't playing as freely as he was, largely i think due to a combination of the achillies injury he's playing through and age. It also hasnt helped that a couple of their outside backs - Montoya, DWZ and Berry - are very out of form right now
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Leebola »

Bluesbrother wrote: May 6, 2024, 7:40 pm Asking for a friend - How's Andrew Webster going with his structured attack?
Let your friend know that, using the only sensible metric - a full season, it's about 15% better than anything we've managed.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by kiwi raider »

I reckon their biggest problem is the pack(outised of AFB and Tohu) Last year Jackson Ford was playing the house down, this year he's been, well ****'s
And i reckon Niukuore is a massive loss, last year he was so hard to handle such a massive threat outside johnson that meant defenders couldnt just slide, this year they've had Capewell there mainly(completely different style of player) and he just keeps getting injured, Niukuore is also just so big and powerful, he takes the gas out teams trying to stop him, also really versatile which is so important. last week against Newcastle they swapped Ford and capewell, right call but didn't last as Capewell did a calf. their bench middles have also been underwhelming, Walker and Tevaga injured a lot and Afoa and Ale just a bit average.

All these things mean they're just not really getting the quality of ball for Johnson, Egan, TMM to attack from, thats why they look a bit pedestrian, so much easier to defend when you have control of the middle and a bit more time, tehy do have some really good young forwards coming through though, they'll get a shot sooner rather than later imo
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Botman »

Yeah that Ford problem is just a bit emblematic of the whole team. Not a lot of dudes playing good footy right now.
Mitch Barnett is playing extremely well imo. But outside of him Wayde Egan (when he's not being looked at by trainers), AFB and Harris are all playing well but not quite what they're capable of and RTS is active and trying hard but isn't getting quality football.

And it's pretty grim beyond that.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Seiffert82 »

kiwi raider wrote:I reckon their biggest problem is the pack(outised of AFB and Tohu) Last year Jackson Ford was playing the house down, this year he's been, well ****'s
And i reckon Niukuore is a massive loss, last year he was so hard to handle such a massive threat outside johnson that meant defenders couldnt just slide, this year they've had Capewell there mainly(completely different style of player) and he just keeps getting injured, Niukuore is also just so big and powerful, he takes the gas out teams trying to stop him, also really versatile which is so important. last week against Newcastle they swapped Ford and capewell, right call but didn't last as Capewell did a calf. their bench middles have also been underwhelming, Walker and Tevaga injured a lot and Afoa and Ale just a bit average.

All these things mean they're just not really getting the quality of ball for Johnson, Egan, TMM to attack from, thats why they look a bit pedestrian, so much easier to defend when you have control of the middle and a bit more time, tehy do have some really good young forwards coming through though, they'll get a shot sooner rather than later imo
Having a number of role players reverting to the mean is not that unusual when the fundamentals are letting you down and, as you say, key players like Niukore are unavailable.

The freak form of DWZ last year can't be understated too.

This actually goes to the core of the whole coaching 'structure' vs talent debate.

But it's also easy to exaggerate their change in fortunes when in reality they have lost four games by 6 points or less and have had a draw. Last year they win the majority of those and are easily sitting top 4.


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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Bluesbrother »

To sum it up, Andrew Webster is struggling. How about other highly touted coaches who have come through in the last few seasons? Adam Obrien? Stinking the house down. Todd Payten. Also wafting an abhorrent stench. Jason Demetriou? Jack is playing the best footy of his career under him.?

Ciraldo and Fitzgibbon seem to be doing outstanding.

Those giving Ricky a hard time only need to look at the results this bunch have dished up in recent times. All, barring the Bulldogs, with much bigger stars on their books.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Leebola »

Seems a bit early in the season to be making this kind of noise, especially after giving up 98 points in the last three rounds
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by WobblyWaider »

Bluesbrother wrote: May 7, 2024, 6:30 pm To sum it up, Andrew Webster is struggling. How about other highly touted coaches who have come through in the last few seasons? Adam Obrien? Stinking the house down. Todd Payten. Also wafting an abhorrent stench. Jason Demetriou? Jack is playing the best footy of his career under him.?

Ciraldo and Fitzgibbon seem to be doing outstanding.

Those giving Ricky a hard time only need to look at the results this bunch have dished up in recent times. All, barring the Bulldogs, with much bigger stars on their books.
i get what you are saying, but do we ignore the stinkathon that's been dished up to home fans over the last 3-4 years ?

its a bit like your dog smells worse than mine......but they both stink
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Bluesbrother »

WobblyWaider wrote: May 7, 2024, 7:21 pm
Bluesbrother wrote: May 7, 2024, 6:30 pm To sum it up, Andrew Webster is struggling. How about other highly touted coaches who have come through in the last few seasons? Adam Obrien? Stinking the house down. Todd Payten. Also wafting an abhorrent stench. Jason Demetriou? Jack is playing the best footy of his career under him.?

Ciraldo and Fitzgibbon seem to be doing outstanding.

Those giving Ricky a hard time only need to look at the results this bunch have dished up in recent times. All, barring the Bulldogs, with much bigger stars on their books.
i get what you are saying, but do we ignore the stinkathon that's been dished up to home fans over the last 3-4 years ?

its a bit like your dog smells worse than mine......but they both stink
The Sharks game was a shocker. The other home games this season have been good performances so I don't think that take is accurate.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by BadnMean »

WobblyWaider wrote: May 7, 2024, 7:21 pm
Bluesbrother wrote: May 7, 2024, 6:30 pm To sum it up, Andrew Webster is struggling. How about other highly touted coaches who have come through in the last few seasons? Adam Obrien? Stinking the house down. Todd Payten. Also wafting an abhorrent stench. Jason Demetriou? Jack is playing the best footy of his career under him.?

Ciraldo and Fitzgibbon seem to be doing outstanding.

Those giving Ricky a hard time only need to look at the results this bunch have dished up in recent times. All, barring the Bulldogs, with much bigger stars on their books.
i get what you are saying, but do we ignore the stinkathon that's been dished up to home fans over the last 3-4 years ?

its a bit like your dog smells worse than mine......but they both stink
This is the logical fallacy of the red herring- what about this- you too!-

e.g Bb doesn't want to engage your actual discussion but would like to discuss OTHER bad coaches.
It's a lazier version of the strawman where instead of actually constructing a strawman argument, they just point at other things and shout, "but that dog has a PUFFIER tail!"
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

BB has his points which are well taken. Some hot rookie coaches who have done well (Webster, Todd Payten) haven't been able to repeat it in subsequent years.

But that's got nothing to do with Ricky. We should look at our own house and get that in order first.

Ricky is not a bad coach. I like him as a person - he seems authentic, cares about his players and the Canberra community, and we know he is passionate about our club. He's done reasonably well here but we now want more. It's a long time between cigars for fans. He's a great coach if you are 10-17 on the ladder. He can get teams on the edge of the 8 into the 8, and teams off the bottom three positions just by coaching a mentality of effort and playing for each other. Also using "us versus them" as motivation.

I don't think we have improved our attacking and defensive structures to be a consistent top 4, even a top 8 team. They just don't exist ! I'm talking about previous years, not just this year. Although we got into the top 8 in the last 2 years (I should say "scraped"), the football we played was absolutely horrible. We haven't looked like being a top 4 team in the last 3 years.

He needs to get us into the top 4 first by improving attack and defence. Whether he can be a coach that can turn a top 4 team into a premiership winner is another matter.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Botman »

100% correct in my view.
Posters trying to take victory laps of other coaches struggles are very much throwing stones in a glass house.
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Leebola
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Leebola »

Hong Kong Raider wrote: May 7, 2024, 9:04 pm BB has his points which are well taken. Some hot rookie coaches who have done well (Webster, Todd Payten) haven't been able to repeat it in subsequent years.

But that's got nothing to do with Ricky. We should look at our own house and get that in order first.

Ricky is not a bad coach. I like him as a person - he seems authentic, cares about his players and the Canberra community, and we know he is passionate about our club. He's done reasonably well here but we now want more. It's a long time between cigars for fans. He's a great coach if you are 10-17 on the ladder. He can get teams on the edge of the 8 into the 8, and teams off the bottom three positions just by coaching a mentality of effort and playing for each other. Also using "us versus them" as motivation.

I don't think we have improved our attacking and defensive structures to be a consistent top 4, even a top 8 team. They just don't exist ! I'm talking about previous years, not just this year. Although we got into the top 8 in the last 2 years (I should say "scraped"), the football we played was absolutely horrible. We haven't looked like being a top 4 team in the last 3 years.

He needs to get us into the top 4 first by improving attack and defence. Whether he can be a coach that can turn a top 4 team into a premiership winner is another matter.
100% bang on.

There's also this childish notion that if you're not 100% on board with how things are currently done, you're a "Ricky hater". It's pathetic.
Last edited by Leebola on May 7, 2024, 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Finchy »

Hong Kong Raider wrote: May 7, 2024, 9:04 pm BB has his points which are well taken. Some hot rookie coaches who have done well (Webster, Todd Payten) haven't been able to repeat it in subsequent years.
It's almost like winning a competition in your first year, then not being able to repeat it in 22 subsequent years.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by reptar »

What is this? Some kind of even more boring Truman Show?
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Finchy »

reptar wrote: May 7, 2024, 9:18 pm What is this? Some kind of even more boring Truman Show?
[holding up a jar of cocoa, slipping into advertising mode] "Why don't you let me fix you some of this Mococoa drink? All natural cocoa beans from the upper slopes of Mount Nicaragua. No artificial sweeteners."
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by reptar »

Finchy wrote:
reptar wrote: May 7, 2024, 9:18 pm What is this? Some kind of even more boring Truman Show?
[holding up a jar of cocoa, slipping into advertising mode] "Why don't you let me fix you some of this Mococoa drink? All natural cocoa beans from the upper slopes of Mount Nicaragua. No artificial sweeteners."
Just the nightcap that’s needed!
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Finchy »

reptar wrote: May 7, 2024, 9:26 pm
Finchy wrote:
reptar wrote: May 7, 2024, 9:18 pm What is this? Some kind of even more boring Truman Show?
[holding up a jar of cocoa, slipping into advertising mode] "Why don't you let me fix you some of this Mococoa drink? All natural cocoa beans from the upper slopes of Mount Nicaragua. No artificial sweeteners."
Just the nightcap that’s needed!
"I've tasted other cocoas. This is the best."
Ata Mariota’s #1 fan. Bless his cotton socks.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Kryptonite »

Finchy wrote:
Hong Kong Raider wrote: May 7, 2024, 9:04 pm BB has his points which are well taken. Some hot rookie coaches who have done well (Webster, Todd Payten) haven't been able to repeat it in subsequent years.
It's almost like winning a competition in your first year, then not being able to repeat it in 22 subsequent years.
Ahh That was Gus Goulds


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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Written 15 years ago.

Thanks for thinking of me, Ricky, but I have better things to do

Phil Gould | April 26, 2009

Dear Ricky, perhaps you misunderstood my comments during the week about your predicament at Cronulla.

Your invitation to have me come to training and talk to your players about attacking football is quite flattering, however, I didn't actually offer you any assistance.

First, I'm retired. Second, even if I were motivated to coach, you'd be the last person I'd help. To be honest Ricky, you are the most pig-headed and ungrateful person I've met in football. I discontinued my association with you four years ago because I could no longer tolerate your petulance.

Read more: http://www.leaguehq.com.au/news/lhqnews ... 48338.html
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

Wow. Not much has changed really, has it?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by NoMan »

Yep, Gus is still a EDIT.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Riaan »

Gould is a world class dribbler 😄
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Rickmando »

Gus - he’s right you know.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

Rickmando wrote: May 8, 2024, 5:09 pm Gus - he’s right you know.
About the poor attacking record?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Finchy »

The Nickman wrote: May 8, 2024, 5:10 pm
Rickmando wrote: May 8, 2024, 5:09 pm Gus - he’s right you know.
About the poor attacking record?
About everything, dammit!
Ata Mariota’s #1 fan. Bless his cotton socks.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Azza »

I think they have kissed and made up.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by reptar »

Kissing Gus would be like kissing a bowl of prunes.
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by -TW- »

It's like kissing a peanutImage

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Azza
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Azza »

I want that thing out of GE’s house
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

Azza wrote:I want that thing out of GE’s house
The ivory cat scratcher?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by BadnMean »

Hong Kong Raider wrote: May 8, 2024, 4:44 pm Written 15 years ago.

Thanks for thinking of me, Ricky, but I have better things to do

Phil Gould | April 26, 2009

Dear Ricky, perhaps you misunderstood my comments during the week about your predicament at Cronulla.

Your invitation to have me come to training and talk to your players about attacking football is quite flattering, however, I didn't actually offer you any assistance.

First, I'm retired. Second, even if I were motivated to coach, you'd be the last person I'd help. To be honest Ricky, you are the most pig-headed and ungrateful person I've met in football. I discontinued my association with you four years ago because I could no longer tolerate your petulance.

Read more: http://www.leaguehq.com.au/news/lhqnews ... 48338.html
Gus hating you is like Paul Kent hating you- not a cause for concern.

Probably a net positive all considered.
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