What's wrong with us right now?

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afgtnk
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What's wrong with us right now?

Post by afgtnk »

List your current grievances.

Mine, in no order:
  • Hodgo playing like trash ever since the Storm game, starving our halves of enough quality ball and making poor decision repeatedly
  • Running play after play like we're going through the motions. Not enough instinct, up the guts and support. The minute we do we look considerably more dangerous
  • CNK showing little to no improvement from last year as a ball player
  • A distinct lack of off the ball movement. No one running strong lines, barely any players in support. I lost count of how many times Williams got the ball with no one in green showing any interest
  • Curtis Scott
  • Seemingly too much focus on defence at the expense of our attack. One ball work session after looking limp as **** against Manly? Really?
  • Simply looking flat. I question our fitness levels atm

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edwahu
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by edwahu »

AFB was the best player on the park last week. RCG and Junior the best this week.

For mine most of the problems that are getting raised are a symptom.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by rayden83 »

Its hard to win games playing with 12 men. Y’all know what I mean.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Rickmando »

R.Stuart

cat
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by cat »

too much travel and the impact its having on game day and during the week prep

Not having a crowd, we feed of the fans energy

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-TW-
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by -TW- »

cat wrote:too much travel and the impact its having on game day and during the week prep

Not having a crowd, we feed of the fans energy
Cop outs on both counts

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by TongueFTW »

We conceded 34 points against Newcastle and 25 tonight. Our defence is no where near the standard of last year, some of that is from the amount of fatigue due to defending mistakes, and some due to missing Bateman on the right edge. We concede soft points. That puts pressure on our attack to make up the points, and it is clear that the combinations will take time to form.

We also play dumb football. Going for field goals 45-50m out in golden point is such a low percentage play. Kick to the corner and make them ruck it out, we know they can push a pass when under pressure.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by I'm Bate Man »

I’m hoping it’s sitting on a bus/plane for 5 to 6 hours on game day every week, time I’ll tell.
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I think last year we extracted a good result out of a team that was probably the 3rd-5th best team in the comp.

Despite narrowly beating the storm twice at the business end they were probably a better team than us.

Manly had our measure.

Souths we probably shaded, but not by much.

Take a few crucial elements (leipana + bateman) and add perhaps the worst centre in the comp and you have a massive Net loss.

So we have gone from 3-5 to 6-8 in my opinion because of that net loss.

Add in Hodgsons woes and it is probably at the lower end of that bracket too.
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Butters »

Mickey_Raider wrote:I think last year we extracted a good result out of a team that was probably the 3rd-5th best team in the comp.

Despite narrowly beating the storm twice at the business end they were probably a better team than us.

Manly had our measure.

Souths we probably shaded, but not by much.

Take a few crucial elements (leipana + bateman) and add perhaps the worst centre in the comp and you have a massive Net loss.

So we have gone from 3-5 to 6-8 in my opinion because of that net loss.

Add in Hodgsons woes and it is probably at the lower end of that bracket too.
This is pretty close to my thoughts.

Although I'd say our defence and determination last year was top 2 in the comp and that got us to the GF.

We are missing that so far this year - I think Bateman is the leader of both of those factors.



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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Ilanraiders »

No X factor. Missing BJ n Bateman!!
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Azza »

Hodgson and C Scott.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by GreenMachine »

It’s tactical and fitness.

Addressing fitness, we look off the pace after the lockdown. For me this is apparent in our defensive line speed but also our meterage. Our starting forwards are not impacting the game.

Young’s run today was one of few I recall this year where our forward forced himself through the defence.

Tactically we are either being coached to continue to probe behind the ruck (with zero offloads or support) or we’re choosing to do this on game day.

It is as if we thought the rule change would only allow you to play a certain way.

Not enough crisp ball is sent out wide with any threatening attacking shape. I’m not talking about ‘Block plays’. I’m talking about quick shifts to the opposition edge.

Instead we lumber upfield with single ruck plays hoping the ref calls “6 again”.

‘Adapting’ to the new rules doesn’t mean play the same way hoping to gain additional sets. Clearly we don’t seem to know what to do with additional sets.

So for me to be convinced that ‘we are close’ as Ricky says, I need to see our tactical approach change.

Otherwise it’s Groundhog Day - well have just enough talent to jag a 8 to 6 spot, but never good enough to seriously challenge for the trophy.

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afgtnk
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by afgtnk »

Mickey_Raider wrote:
June 27, 2020, 10:43 pm
I think last year we extracted a good result out of a team that was probably the 3rd-5th best team in the comp.

Despite narrowly beating the storm twice at the business end they were probably a better team than us.

Manly had our measure.

Souths we probably shaded, but not by much.

Take a few crucial elements (leipana + bateman) and add perhaps the worst centre in the comp and you have a massive Net loss.

So we have gone from 3-5 to 6-8 in my opinion because of that net loss.

Add in Hodgsons woes and it is probably at the lower end of that bracket too.

Fair points. Got beaten by the Roosters twice too in the regular season and lost once to the Eels as well.

Looking at the remainder of the draw, there's around seven games where I'm pretty confident we'll get a result due to the foundation the side is built on, regardless of the way we're playing right now.

Whether that's enough and has us contending again though I don't know. It's pointing to no at the moment for me, although we did have a similar poor patch early last season that went for longer than what we're currently in. Also, we've got big expectations for the side this year when we didn't last. That is a big factor for the way us supporters are reacting IMO.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Damoni »

GreenMachine wrote:It’s tactical and fitness.

Addressing fitness, we look off the pace after the lockdown. For me this is apparent in our defensive line speed but also our meterage. Our starting forwards are not impacting the game.

Young’s run today was one of few I recall this year where our forward forced himself through the defence.

Tactically we are either being coached to continue to probe behind the ruck (with zero offloads or support) or we’re choosing to do this on game day.

It is as if we thought the rule change would only allow you to play a certain way.

Not enough crisp ball is sent out wide with any threatening attacking shape. I’m not talking about ‘Block plays’. I’m talking about quick shifts to the opposition edge.

Instead we lumber upfield with single ruck plays hoping the ref calls “6 again”.

‘Adapting’ to the new rules doesn’t mean play the same way hoping to gain additional sets. Clearly we don’t seem to know what to do with additional sets.

So for me to be convinced that ‘we are close’ as Ricky says, I need to see our tactical approach change.

Otherwise it’s Groundhog Day - well have just enough talent to jag a 8 to 6 spot, but never good enough to seriously challenge for the trophy.
100% agree we are off the pace and don’t look anywhere near as sharp fitness wise

Thought the same thing about Young, really stood out, as we haven’t seen that for weeks. Just highlights how you need a more mobile pack with fast feet under the new rules.

Also made me think the days of putting Tapine or even Horse on an edge are dead they are strictly middles.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by zim »

You can argue we aren't fit but your starting forwards not having impact has zero to do with fitness. They're fresh at the start of the game. That first 20min period is all about ability and attitude.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Brew »

What is wrong:
Curtis Scott. Should be a squad filler when we have the likes of Oldfield and Cotric to play Centre.
No John Bateman. Less talk on the field.
Expectations. We never deal with it well.
Travel.
Forgot how to get a repeat set and build pressure always going for the clutch play.



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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by GreenMachine »

zim wrote:
June 27, 2020, 11:11 pm
You can argue we aren't fit but your starting forwards not having impact has zero to do with fitness. They're fresh at the start of the game. That first 20min period is all about ability and attitude.
The starting forwards lack fitness judging the running meters made per minute and conceded.

It’s also noticeable how much more impact Guler, Sutton and Havili are having with less time.

I also think Hodgson looks unfit. Much slower out of the ruck than usual.

For me, Soliola is one of my favourite players, but his time as a starting front rower looks gone. He’s had these bouts before and come back strong, but I don’t see it this time around.

Papalii must have been injured or concussed tonight because he looked off.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by zim »

1 - Hodgson's form. It's just not there.
2 - End of sets. We were better at building pressure against the eels but we still didn't get a set restart.
3 - Curtis Scott being a turkey.
4 - Lack of fast play the balls from the forwards
5 - Might have something to do with 4, lack of bodies in motion when running plays.

Edit:
Being passive in defense is in there somewhere. We fixed that a lot too in the Eels match but still had structural issues.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by GreenMachine »

You can’t run bodies in motion if your unfit to do it...that’s my point.

Watch the Roosters play...every ruck has more than 1 player in motion.

Every tackle has 3 players involved ‘pretzeling’ the opponent slowly to the ground, allowing the defensive line to reset.

They are fit and can maintain this pressure for 80 minutes.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by woppadingo »

1.dumb play
2.curtis scott

Dumb Play: Our biggest problem is lack of disciplined, structured, well managed end to our sets. Our lack of repeat sets and poor finishes to sets have been evident for a number of years. But last year we had Bateman and Cotric on the right, who are both strong defensively, and whitehead and Wighton on the left. Thus we were able to defend our inadequacies at the end of sets to the extent that we made it to the GF.

Curtis Scott: While last year we could defend our mistakes and poor quality finishes, this year opposing teams have avenues for attack. Defensively the left edge is OK (Whitehead, Wighton and a new centre wing combo) but on the right we have Curtis Scott. Man that guy is playing like a park footballer. The opposition is running amok down our right edge and it means we cannot defend the mistakes made in attack.

To fix that we could move Cotric to right centre, if that suits him, and bring in Simonson on the wing, dropping Curtis Scott to reggies to 'get his confidence back'. That would fix up the defensive aspect of things somewhat... although we are still lacking Bateman on that side.

However the poor options and lack of discipline to finish sets is still a major issue. Yes, Williams and Wighton need to overcall Hodgson... and the three of them need to work it out somehow so that we can control the game better, but they need the help of coaching to do it.

Rick has done a fantastic job recruiting the great players. Now we have one of the most talented squads in the NRL. However the continued lack of game management is indicative of Rickys limitations as a coach.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Raidernation »

I think this is twice in two weeks where Ricky has brought up, in an around about way, that the team were believing their own hype and that they aren’t the same team as last year and nor is it the same competition. We look like a team that’s going through the motions.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

woppadingo wrote:
June 27, 2020, 11:59 pm
1.dumb play
2.curtis scott

Dumb Play: Our biggest problem is lack of disciplined, structured, well managed end to our sets. Our lack of repeat sets and poor finishes to sets have been evident for a number of years. But last year we had Bateman and Cotric on the right, who are both strong defensively, and whitehead and Wighton on the left. Thus we were able to defend our inadequacies at the end of sets to the extent that we made it to the GF.

Curtis Scott: While last year we could defend our mistakes and poor quality finishes, this year opposing teams have avenues for attack. Defensively the left edge is OK (Whitehead, Wighton and a new centre wing combo) but on the right we have Curtis Scott. Man that guy is playing like a park footballer. The opposition is running amok down our right edge and it means we cannot defend the mistakes made in attack.

To fix that we could move Cotric to right centre, if that suits him, and bring in Simonson on the wing, dropping Curtis Scott to reggies to 'get his confidence back'. That would fix up the defensive aspect of things somewhat... although we are still lacking Bateman on that side.

However the poor options and lack of discipline to finish sets is still a major issue. Yes, Williams and Wighton need to overcall Hodgson... and the three of them need to work it out somehow so that we can control the game better, but they need the help of coaching to do it.

Rick has done a fantastic job recruiting the great players. Now we have one of the most talented squads in the NRL. However the continued lack of game management is indicative of Rickys limitations as a coach.
Are they even playing “Reggies” at the moment?
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by -TW- »

No, that's part of the issue that players aren't able to push for selection

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

Thought so. In that case, dropping him to reggies to boost his confidence may not have the desired effect.
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Northern Raider »

In general terms we're down on form. Playing well below your best and losing in golden point to one of the premiership favorites is not the worst place to be. I'd be more concerned of we were playing out of our skin and losing.
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Pete Cash »

I don't think any single player is to blame. I really do think they are playing the footy tactically that stick wants. Its just not the right tactics since the rule change.

We are too predictable so to speak. Watch how the roosters use their back row compared to our guys. Look at how parra were offloading to players moving and we are offloading to players flatfooted

Every spine player in the comp takes bad options in games but because our players are so rarely asking questions when hodgson/Jack/Williams/cnk get trapped with the ball while there are opportunities it really stands out. If Ponga throws a **** pass knights fans aren't like oh no that's 60% of our attacking chances blown because they aren't playing such predictable footy.

We need to ask questions in attack because modern defences are frankly very good and they only make errors in decision making.

Decoy runs, players in motion, forwards running in pairs, support players in motion, etc are all very basic things that forces a defender to make a decision.

How often is an offload taken by hodgson who is preparing to go to acting half compared to say a player running onto the ball ?

Without beej we need good team play over good individual play and tactically we aren't doing it

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Canberra Milk »

I just wrote this on Facebook, for the Eels game only but still applies.

This was not lost in the middle. This was lost on the edges. Both teams were similar up the middle. But when they spun it, they spun it well. They had Gutho who is a genuine link man at fullback who can bring the edges into the game, whereas CNK is a support player. They spin the ball all the way one way, then all the way the other (see Matterson's try), pushing and pulling the position defence around. We just plough up the guts, set after set after set. It's been Ricky's modus operandi for a long time and it relies on individual brilliance or sheer weight of momentum to score tries. But we don't have Bateman and Leipana anymore, we need to do more. Further, the game has changed. Defences are smarter. You need to ask questions with the ball.

Once we loosened the shackles in the last 10 minutes , we looked fine. We looked excellent. That's really all we have to do, loosen the shackles. As to whether a Ricky will let us, I'm not so sure. He's a very, very stubborn coach.

The issues about Williams defence, Scott's defence etc are interesting but they're not why we lost. We lost because of our attack

Separately, how come Wighton still can't pass long. Dear oh dear, he's putting one pass in the crowd per game. Those sets on the line are important, we can't afford that. Most players can pass long now, even Matt Dufty. We need our five eighth to be able to do it. Great running and kicking, short passing ok, needs to work on long passing over and over in training

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Stuart was bang on in the presser IMO. There are a small number of players trying to make the hero play way too often.

We've seen it all before. When we stray away from the team-oriented basic gameplan we look disjointed in attack.

The team knows how to fix it. They just need to do it.

At least Scott showed a little improvement with Rapa outside him. That helped a bit. I thought Sivo was going to give us a bath last night. They contained him pretty well.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Canberra Milk »

Northern Raider wrote:
June 28, 2020, 9:13 am
In general terms we're down on form. Playing well below your best and losing in golden point to one of the premiership favorites is not the worst place to be. I'd be more concerned of we were playing out of our skin and losing.
Sure but why are we down on form, that's the question. Ricky's right, it's not panic stations. But it's 4 weeks now we haven't looked right, three of those being losses.

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Northern Raider »

Canberra Milk wrote:
June 28, 2020, 9:42 am
Northern Raider wrote:
June 28, 2020, 9:13 am
In general terms we're down on form. Playing well below your best and losing in golden point to one of the premiership favorites is not the worst place to be. I'd be more concerned of we were playing out of our skin and losing.
Sure but why are we down on form, that's the question. Ricky's right, it's not panic stations. But it's 4 weeks now we haven't looked right, three of those being losses.
There's many factors but I think a lot comes back to us not playing as a team. Too many trying to make it happens themselves.
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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Canberra Milk »

Matthew Johns has been talking a lot recently about teams having a "system" in attack, especially the Roosters. Eg when the halfback takes the ball up, everyone goes with him knowing what lines to run in that system. They have Radley as a link man in that system to create width so they're not just operating on a small tunnel. It creates absolute headaches for defences. We have no system. Just a bunch of individuals

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by sprintman »

We’re unfit

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by amiafish »

1. We're unfit
2. We're slow in the backs (Croker, Scott, Rapana, Cotric...all slow)
3. We're slow in the forwards (Horsburgh, Papaali, Soliola, Tapine, Sutton...all slow)
4. We don't have an attacking game plan that compensates for our structural slowness...we just play up-the-guts and our sweep plays are completely pedestrian.
5. We have a No. 9 that currently suffers from a Dunning-Kruger effect (Google it, it's fun)
6. We have a right centre that couldn't tackle my grandma
7. We have a coach who for some inexplicable reason coaches nothing like he played (i.e. confined and constricted, rather than expansive and adventurous).

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Re: What's wrong with us right now?

Post by Northern Raider »

Canberra Milk wrote:
June 28, 2020, 9:54 am
Matthew Johns has been talking a lot recently about teams having a "system" in attack, especially the Roosters. Eg when the halfback takes the ball up, everyone goes with him knowing what lines to run in that system. They have Radley as a link man in that system to create width so they're not just operating on a small tunnel. It creates absolute headaches for defences. We have no system. Just a bunch of individuals
Funny. I was watching Rooster the other night and noticed every time they went right it always ended up as a crash ball to Crichton, turn back inside to Crichton or take the line on themselves. I struggled to remember any time Aubusson or Hall got the ball at the end of a backline play. Did not cause any headaches for the defense and they covered it every time. Different story going left when they were happy to use the outside men.
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