Papalii says family reasons behind flu injection stance

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greeneyed
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Papalii says family reasons behind flu injection stance

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Canberra Raiders stars Josh Papalii, Sia Soliola and Joe Tapine protest as NRL considers banning players

Canberra Raiders forwards Josh Papalii, Sia Soliola and Joseph Tapine have protested against the NRL's compulsory vaccination policy after refusing to sign an unmodified waiver.

The grand final trio were no-shows at Raiders headquarters on Wednesday morning, and could end up as part of an NRL anti-vaxxer contingent wiped from the competition for the remainder of the season as the code considers applying a blanket ban to all players who haven't received a flu shot.

Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/raider ... 54qhu.html

Raiders stars wiped out in anti-vax storm: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-2 ... 573596c1ab

Raiders trio the latest to reject flu shot: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... b328c69864

Canberra's Josh Papalii, Sia Soliola and Joe Tapine refuse flu shot, miss training: https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/canberra-r ... 28dad22324
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Luffto »

Great, now I have to either be an anti-vaxxer or hate on players from my own club

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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Danaman137 »

Sigh... really? In the midst of a global **** pandemic they won’t even get a flu shot... c’mon guys. Get it together.


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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Sid »

If neither the nrl or players budge on this issue than that’s season over right there for the Raiders

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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Manbush »

Stand them down without pay if they aren’t willing to get the shots and while they’re stood down their training can be to read the vast amount of peer reviewed research and history about vaccines.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by the bone »

This is probably an ignorant question, but... what does the flu shot have to do with the coronavirus? If the flu shot wasn’t mandatory before, why are they making it so now?


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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

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the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 10:31 pm
This is probably an ignorant question, but... what does the flu shot have to do with the coronavirus? If the flu shot wasn’t mandatory before, why are they making it so now?

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As explained in the story, not having the flu shot means you’re not only at risk of contracting a virus with almost identical symptoms to coronavirus (with the obvious implications that has for the club and NRL competition)... but you’re also at more risk of contracting coronavirus due to a weakening of the immune system. And if you contract both, you’re potentially very seriously ill.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by I'm Bate Man »

the bone wrote:This is probably an ignorant question, but... what does the flu shot have to do with the coronavirus? If the flu shot wasn’t mandatory before, why are they making it so now?


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Your immunity will be lowered if you catch the flu, making it more likely you will have an intense reaction if you catch Covid-19.

Basically you don’t want to catch one on top of the other, just ask New York residence.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Toviii »

They should be stood down. It sounds like all they had to do was sign a liability form, acknowledging they are at increased risk of influenza if they do not get the vaccination.
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the bone
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by the bone »

greeneyed wrote:
the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 10:31 pm
This is probably an ignorant question, but... what does the flu shot have to do with the coronavirus? If the flu shot wasn’t mandatory before, why are they making it so now?

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As explained in the story, not having the flu shot means you’re not only at risk of contracting a virus with almost identical symptoms to coronavirus (with the obvious implications that has for the club and NRL competition)... but you’re also at more risk of contracting coronavirus due to a weakening of the immune system. And if you contract both, you’re potentially very seriously ill.
Fair enough. Though as I’m Bate Man said, my understanding of the immune system is it will effect the response of your body to a virus, but it won’t make it more or less likely for you to contract it in the first place.


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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Old School Green »

Clearly they should get the shot. IMO anti vacs are ignorant and selfish. Think they’re informed because they’ve read some crackpot Facebook posts of other anti-vacs. Forget peer reviewed research and vaccination success rates. I think they put everyone’s health at risk, particularly kids and vulnerable people.

However anti flu shot is a bit different to traditional anti vacc. The flu shot is basically a lottery each year where four strains of flu are chosen and protection given. If the flu strain you catch ain’t one of them, you have no protection. In the Covid era though, for all the reasons outlined in other posts, professionals should get them.

That said, pretty sure the NRL will struggle to enforce this. No one will be banned and they will play; it’s all just RL drama and hype, and a part of why we love the game.

And sorry to harp, but when blokes like tarpine allegedly refuse a flu shot citing some Pentecostal born again Christian belief about not putting drugs in their body, but then hit the piss like fish when they get a chance? They are hypocrites and it’s cringe worthy listening to that garbage
Last edited by Old School Green on May 6, 2020, 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Peter »

Their body, their choice. Cannot force them and the NRL will be hard up trying to ban them without severe legal ramifications.

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Post by -TW- »

Peter wrote:Their body, their choice. Cannot force them and the NRL will be hard up trying to ban them without severe legal ramifications.
That's what I was thinking as well

Unless it's explicitly in their contracts or their agreement, how is it enforceable?

Also Cartwright posted on twitter that players sign a waiver if they don't want to have it

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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by the bone »

Agreed with all that Old School Green.

A few years ago I asked my local GP what % of her patients come in for the flu shot, and she said it was only about 33%, though she did say that others were provided the shot by their pharmacist or employer. But the point is, there are a bunch of people out there that don’t get the flu shot, but I don’t consider them anti-vaxers. I get mine every year, and am always puzzled why other people don’t.


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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by greeneyed »

the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 10:55 pm
greeneyed wrote:
the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 10:31 pm
This is probably an ignorant question, but... what does the flu shot have to do with the coronavirus? If the flu shot wasn’t mandatory before, why are they making it so now?

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As explained in the story, not having the flu shot means you’re not only at risk of contracting a virus with almost identical symptoms to coronavirus (with the obvious implications that has for the club and NRL competition)... but you’re also at more risk of contracting coronavirus due to a weakening of the immune system. And if you contract both, you’re potentially very seriously ill.
Fair enough. Though as I’m Bate Man said, my understanding of the immune system is it will effect the response of your body to a virus, but it won’t make it more or less likely for you to contract it in the first place.

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I see the point you’re making, but it’s semantics. If you have the flu shot, you effectively get immunity and you don’t fall sick with the relevant strains of flu if you do come in contact with it.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Manbush »

Old School Green wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:00 pm
And sorry to harp, but when blokes like tarpine allegedly refuse a flu shot citing some Pentecostal born again Christian belief about not putting things drugs in their body, but hit the piss like fish when they get a chance, are hypocrites and it’s cringe worthy listening to the garbage
Not just the hypocritical nature annoys me but the special privilege, religious exemptions are no longer permitted for vaccines the only people exempt are rightfully those with medical reasons.

“Religious viewpoints are different to ethical viewpoints and that’s why the ethical deniers will simply be told ‘you don’t have to take the needle, you’re not forced to take the needle, but you will not play NRL this season’.”


Sorry but if it’s ok for religious reasons it should also be ok for ethical ones, what’s the difference?
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

Peter wrote:Their body, their choice. Cannot force them and the NRL will be hard up trying to ban them without severe legal ramifications.
Yeah this is my thinking, especially with the message that came out of the NRL that the players should be responsible for what goes into their bodies
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by greeneyed »

-TW- wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:08 pm
Peter wrote:Their body, their choice. Cannot force them and the NRL will be hard up trying to ban them without severe legal ramifications.
That's what I was thinking as well

Unless it's explicitly in their contracts or their agreement, how is it enforceable?

Also Cartwright posted on twitter that players sign a waiver if they don't want to have it

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The issue is the three Raiders players refused to sign the waiver in an unaltered form.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by the bone »

greeneyed wrote:
the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 10:55 pm
greeneyed wrote:
the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 10:31 pm
This is probably an ignorant question, but... what does the flu shot have to do with the coronavirus? If the flu shot wasn’t mandatory before, why are they making it so now?

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As explained in the story, not having the flu shot means you’re not only at risk of contracting a virus with almost identical symptoms to coronavirus (with the obvious implications that has for the club and NRL competition)... but you’re also at more risk of contracting coronavirus due to a weakening of the immune system. And if you contract both, you’re potentially very seriously ill.
Fair enough. Though as I’m Bate Man said, my understanding of the immune system is it will effect the response of your body to a virus, but it won’t make it more or less likely for you to contract it in the first place.

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I see the point you’re making, but it’s semantics. If you have the flu shot, you effectively get immunity and you don’t fall sick with the relevant strains of flu if you do come in contact with it.
My comment was more to say, the flu shot won’t effect whether or not you contract the coronavirus. The flu shot will however ensure that you are not struck down by both the flu and coronavirus.


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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Peter »

greeneyed wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:18 pm
-TW- wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:08 pm
Peter wrote:Their body, their choice. Cannot force them and the NRL will be hard up trying to ban them without severe legal ramifications.
That's what I was thinking as well

Unless it's explicitly in their contracts or their agreement, how is it enforceable?

Also Cartwright posted on twitter that players sign a waiver if they don't want to have it

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The issue is the three Raiders players refused to sign the waiver in an unaltered form.
Yeah because they didn’t agree with what it said. Why should they sign something they don’t agree with?

Enough with all this crap. Let’s go back to September 2019. I’ve had enough of 2020.

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Post by Timbo »

Unless the three of them have used the off season to get PhDs in immunology they should shut the **** up and do what their doctors say.

As for Tapine claiming religion? Unless you’re going teetotal as well Joe, save it you hypocrite.

There are few people I loathe more than anti-vaxxers. Lowering herd immunity and putting people with ACTUAL conditions that prevent them from being vaccinated at risk because they saw a video on Facebook once about vaccines.

It’s ignorant and it’s selfish. I won’t be looking at the three of them the same way again.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by greeneyed »

Peter wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:25 pm
greeneyed wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:18 pm
-TW- wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:08 pm
Peter wrote:Their body, their choice. Cannot force them and the NRL will be hard up trying to ban them without severe legal ramifications.
That's what I was thinking as well

Unless it's explicitly in their contracts or their agreement, how is it enforceable?

Also Cartwright posted on twitter that players sign a waiver if they don't want to have it

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The issue is the three Raiders players refused to sign the waiver in an unaltered form.
Yeah because they didn’t agree with what it said. Why should they sign something they don’t agree with?

Enough with all this crap. Let’s go back to September 2019. I’ve had enough of 2020.
They don’t have to. But in the current circumstances, I wouldn’t argue with the NRL if they told them they don’t get to train or play with their club. Obviously, I wouldn’t want them to be unavailable... but that may be their choice.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by greeneyed »

the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:21 pm
greeneyed wrote:
the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 10:55 pm
greeneyed wrote:
the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 10:31 pm
This is probably an ignorant question, but... what does the flu shot have to do with the coronavirus? If the flu shot wasn’t mandatory before, why are they making it so now?

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As explained in the story, not having the flu shot means you’re not only at risk of contracting a virus with almost identical symptoms to coronavirus (with the obvious implications that has for the club and NRL competition)... but you’re also at more risk of contracting coronavirus due to a weakening of the immune system. And if you contract both, you’re potentially very seriously ill.
Fair enough. Though as I’m Bate Man said, my understanding of the immune system is it will effect the response of your body to a virus, but it won’t make it more or less likely for you to contract it in the first place.

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I see the point you’re making, but it’s semantics. If you have the flu shot, you effectively get immunity and you don’t fall sick with the relevant strains of flu if you do come in contact with it.
My comment was more to say, the flu shot won’t effect whether or not you contract the coronavirus. The flu shot will however ensure that you are not struck down by both the flu and coronavirus.


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As I understand it, the point the medical experts are making is that if they get the flu, their immune system is lowered, which means they are less able to fight off the coronavirus too.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by the bone »

greeneyed wrote:
the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:21 pm
greeneyed wrote:
the bone wrote:
May 6, 2020, 10:55 pm
greeneyed wrote: As explained in the story, not having the flu shot means you’re not only at risk of contracting a virus with almost identical symptoms to coronavirus (with the obvious implications that has for the club and NRL competition)... but you’re also at more risk of contracting coronavirus due to a weakening of the immune system. And if you contract both, you’re potentially very seriously ill.
Fair enough. Though as I’m Bate Man said, my understanding of the immune system is it will effect the response of your body to a virus, but it won’t make it more or less likely for you to contract it in the first place.

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I see the point you’re making, but it’s semantics. If you have the flu shot, you effectively get immunity and you don’t fall sick with the relevant strains of flu if you do come in contact with it.
My comment was more to say, the flu shot won’t effect whether or not you contract the coronavirus. The flu shot will however ensure that you are not struck down by both the flu and coronavirus.


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As I understand it, the point the medical experts are making is that if they get the flu, their immune system is lowered, which means they are less able to fight off the coronavirus too.
Yep exactly right


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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Lui_Bon »

Manbush wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:16 pm
Old School Green wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:00 pm
And sorry to harp, but when blokes like tarpine allegedly refuse a flu shot citing some Pentecostal born again Christian belief about not putting things drugs in their body, but hit the piss like fish when they get a chance, are hypocrites and it’s cringe worthy listening to the garbage
Not just the hypocritical nature annoys me but the special privilege, religious exemptions are no longer permitted for vaccines the only people exempt are rightfully those with medical reasons.

“Religious viewpoints are different to ethical viewpoints and that’s why the ethical deniers will simply be told ‘you don’t have to take the needle, you’re not forced to take the needle, but you will not play NRL this season’.”


Sorry but if it’s ok for religious reasons it should also be ok for ethical ones, what’s the difference?
It's a fair question, and I'm not sure whether these players or the NRL could tell us how ethics are different from religious dictums.

Furthermore I'm not sure society as a whole should care.
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Post by FROG »

I think this is a ridiculous stance for the nrl to take. Im not an anti vaccer. My kids and pets are completely vacced up. The flu shot is where i draw the line. Not on principle but because I've witnessed time and time again that people who take the shot display flu like symptoms shortly after. Indeed the last time i had the flu 12 years ago followed the one time i had a flu shot. Im not referring to a sample size of one i manage a semi large team and i see it happen time and time again. Now i appreciate there is bias at play here and I've by no means conducted a controlled study, but the point is that at the very least, taking the flu shot does not prevent people from later experiencing flu like symptoms so why on earth would the nrl get so hung up on it

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Post by sprintman »

Three clowns. Who would have guessed....

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Post by julian87 »

****.
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Post by edwahu »

FROG wrote:
May 7, 2020, 6:02 am
I think this is a ridiculous stance for the nrl to take. Im not an anti vaccer. My kids and pets are completely vacced up. The flu shot is where i draw the line. Not on principle but because I've witnessed time and time again that people who take the shot display flu like symptoms shortly after. Indeed the last time i had the flu 12 years ago followed the one time i had a flu shot. Im not referring to a sample size of one i manage a semi large team and i see it happen time and time again. Now i appreciate there is bias at play here and I've by no means conducted a controlled study, but the point is that at the very least, taking the flu shot does not prevent people from later experiencing flu like symptoms so why on earth would the nrl get so hung up on it
Yes, people occasionally get mild flu like symptoms. That's the nature of how vaccines work to stimulate your immune system to produce antibodies. However modern flu shots contains no actual live flu virus so it is impossible for it to give you the flu.

The facts are available and they show that the shot reduces the chance of getting the flu by 60% on average. It can be higher or lower depending on the strains that year. It also reduces the chance of hospitalisation if you do catch it.

It saves thousands of people each year and does no harm, so really there is no good excuse to not get it.

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Post by Dusty »

Has it been stated as to their reason for not wanting it?


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Post by Dusty »

Season looks over


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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Smurfette »

greeneyed wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:18 pm
-TW- wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:08 pm
Peter wrote:Their body, their choice. Cannot force them and the NRL will be hard up trying to ban them without severe legal ramifications.
That's what I was thinking as well

Unless it's explicitly in their contracts or their agreement, how is it enforceable?

Also Cartwright posted on twitter that players sign a waiver if they don't want to have it

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The issue is the three Raiders players refused to sign the waiver in an unaltered form.
And this seems the pettiest part to me. If you don’t want the flu shot on religious grounds, that’s fine, but I’m doubting that any religion has strong views on the actual efficacy of the flu vaccine.

Honestly, just sign the waiver.

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Post by Azza »

Yep, season over.

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Post by Northern Raider »

The report claims the three players all crossed out a line in the standardised waiver which stated they accept they are at greater risk of contracting the flu if they refuse the vaccine.

Seems a bit childish to me. Refusing the shot is one thing. Refusing to sign a waiver acknowledging the potential ramifications is becoming petulant.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Botman »

-TW- wrote:
May 6, 2020, 11:08 pm
Peter wrote:Their body, their choice. Cannot force them and the NRL will be hard up trying to ban them without severe legal ramifications.
That's what I was thinking as well

Unless it's explicitly in their contracts or their agreement, how is it enforceable?

Also Cartwright posted on twitter that players sign a waiver if they don't want to have it

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We already have many different scenarios in Australia where without the correct vaccinations you are not able to part take in some things.
Daycare for example...

It's managed to avoid legal challenges so far
These players dont have a legal right to play for the NRL, or any club.

The NRL however do have legal obligations to reasonably protect it's employee and contractors. In this scenario, and given the weight of evidence around debunking anti-vaxxers, good luck getting a verdict in court to say what the NRL are doing is taking unreasonable steps to protect their staff.

They dont have to have the jab, but like all of us, there is ramifications for your choices. For these players, it may be that they simply can not play NRL in a COVID19 world. I hope they have weighed their decision carefully, this team is in a very good spot right now and i would think there is 13-20 players with an eye on the prize who will not be thrilled about 3 of their best players making themselves unavailable due to ill informed petulance.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
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