I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

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edwahu
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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year ?

Post by edwahu »

I don't think we could've done a better job of building a squad than we have. It's all in the players heads at this point.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year ?

Post by -PJ- »

I'm expecting to improve, be there or there abouts..
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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year ?

Post by Brew »

Teams will be coming for us now. And injuries were kind in 2019, we need that luck again in 2020.

Very cautious cause of 2017 but we don’t have the likes of Austin, Junior and Boyd stinking it up this time around.


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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year ?

Post by afgtnk »

Brew wrote:
December 2, 2019, 3:36 pm
Teams will be coming for us now. And injuries were kind in 2019, we need that luck again in 2020.

Very cautious cause of 2017 but we don’t have the likes of Austin, Junior and Boyd stinking it up this time around.


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That is hindsight - we used to love all three.

Come the start of 2017 Austin was still fresh off a Dally M award and regarded as one of the most dangerous players in the game, Boyd was a rep prop, and Paulo was earmarked for the similar honours. It went downhill for us rapidly and suggests that it can happen to almost any player.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year ?

Post by The Nickman »

Brew wrote:
December 2, 2019, 3:36 pm
Teams will be coming for us now. And injuries were kind in 2019, we need that luck again in 2020.

Very cautious cause of 2017 but we don’t have the likes of Austin, Junior and Boyd stinking it up this time around.


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None of those three were doing that in 2016 either.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year ?

Post by Beejay »

Let’s just get carried away. Why not I say

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year ?

Post by Azza »

Brew wrote:
December 2, 2019, 3:36 pm
Teams will be coming for us now. And injuries were kind in 2019, we need that luck again in 2020.

Very cautious cause of 2017 but we don’t have the likes of Austin, Junior and Boyd stinking it up this time around.


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We actually had a pretty bad run with injuries IMO, we just had them early in the year and had our best squad available at the right time

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year ?

Post by Seiffert82 »

The Nickman wrote:
December 2, 2019, 9:57 am
You might've thought we were a 6-12 team, but I firmly believed "on paper" we were top 4.

Saying that, I firmly believed 2016-19 was a top 4 team "on paper" the whole time, which is why I was so downright FURIOUS with 2017-18.

We should be the goods next year and should come very close to winning it, but like afghjfrtkjhlrkjhlrjkthrth I can't get recurring visions of 2017 to stop flashing before my eyes.

I'm not entirely confident. Canberra teams of the last two decades have a disturbing habit of collapsing like a wet paper towel as soon as they start getting any smoke blown up their **** over an off-season. I'm going to need to see genuine change and commitment over the off season before I'm convinced.
I'm with you on that. I thought in 2017 and 2018 we had a bit of bad luck with injuries, but our lack of success was largely based on poor preparation, poor attitude and ordinary coaching.

In fact, 2019 showed me for the first time how good coaching can absolutely change the fortunes of a team, if the players buy into the shift in focus.

I don't expect 2020 to be a repeat of 2017, simply due to the fact that the players now know what it takes to get the team to the next level. And they will also know what's required to sustain their performance for an entire season, rather than rely on jagging a period of red hot form at the end of the season to scrape into the finals.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Botman »

It's going to be important in 2020 for the playing group, coach and organisation as a whole to continue to establish this culture of accountability that i truly beleive was a key componet to sparking our 2019 run.

Attitude and leadership on on this front and reinforcing that culture is going to go a long way into getting us where we want to be. Control what you can control, understand that you as a player, as a team, as coach, as an organisation are ultimately responsible for your success and failure.

I dont believe in coincidences and i dont believe that our results in 2019 were unrelated to a clear, obvious and change of direction from the club about it's woe as me attitude.
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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by gangrenous »

Botman wrote: Attitude and leadership on on this front and reinforcing that culture is going to go a long way into getting us where we want to be. Control what you can control, understand that you as a player, as a team, as coach, as an organisation are ultimately responsible for your success and failure.
You and I will always fundamentally disagree on this I think. There are always other factors beyond your control at play in sport and life that contribute to your successes and failures. In some cases the factors you can’t control may have the greatest impact.

When it comes down to the practicality though we can agree, because you focus on what you can control.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Botman »

Your last sentence is the only one that matters
Practically, nothing outside of your control must be allowed to matter. Once it does it's a distraction, its an excuse and it paves the way for failure.

A life time of watching and participating in sports (albeit a long time ago on the latter) has cemented one truism about sport - every single successful sporting team i have seen or been involved with was entirely focused on what their performance and working on their strengths and improving their weaknesess. Good teams, across any area achieve what they should. great teams overcome the barriers that hold them back from being good to being great.

I have not seen a single successful sporting team who was outwardly focused the way this club and this fanbase has typically been.

This club does have some disadvantages, but i am hardened now (as opposed to years before) in my belief that none of them preclude us from being successful. We are responible for our success or failure. Success might come harder for us than others, but it's achievable if we focus on being the best we can be, instead of focusing on the uncontrollable barriers that hold us back
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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Seiffert82 »

I think that's exactly what the team did last season. Before the season they clearly said they were focussing on defence and discipline. During the season that's exactly what they did.

Now, that wasn't entirely planned. If I recall correctly, the club offered contract extensions to Austin, Paulo and Boyd. Obviously, none of them took their offers up before the offers were pulled. In hindsight it was the best thing to happen to the club, and the rest is history.

So yeah, a combination of things led to our success last season. Time will tell if it has triggered a long term shift in culture. Based on the leadership group in our current playing squad, I suspect it has.
Last edited by Seiffert82 on December 3, 2019, 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Botman »

The level of responsibility and accountability that this club had in 2019 was.... frankly... wildy out of character and it helped produce a mentally and physically strong team and staff built for the grind of a sporting season. I beleive it was a key driver in our successs.

Elite sports at this level... the talent disparity is not as large as most of us think it day to day. Me included. Which is why upsets happen so often. Attitude is everything when the margins are so thin. An orgnaisational culture built around being accountable and responsible for your own performance is, IMO, vital in sustaining success. Especially for a club like ours who DO have some disadvanages in terms of player recruitment... you can trim the edges on that with culture
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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yes. I firmly believed we were a top 4 quality team in 2017 and 2018, but the players didn't play like they believed they were. Clearly talented enough to get into a winning position most games, but not mentally tough or disciplined enough to go on with it. That's the difference.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by gangrenous »

Botman wrote:Your last sentence is the only one that matters
In how the team approaches things - sure.

In a debate about ultimate responsibility for success/failure I disagree.

As to whether the fan base should discuss them, kind of irrelevant.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote:
December 3, 2019, 8:42 pm
Now, that wasn't entirely planned. If I recall correctly, the club offered contract extensions to Austin, Paulo and Boyd. Obviously, none of them took their offers up before the offers were pulled. In hindsight it was the best thing to happen to the club, and the rest is history.
They didnt take the offers because the club evaluated their value, and for once in their life, stood firm on that and were comfortable letting them walk over paying them more than they thought they were worth

It was... to be perfectly frank... maybe the most significant moment in this club's recent history. The lesson has hopefully been learnt. Evaluate your roster, ruthlessly manage it, sign players at values you think ARE valuable. I dont think it was an accident.

I think... at least i hope it was an organisational shift in philosophy
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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by gangrenous »

Seiffert82 wrote:Yes. I firmly believed we were a top 4 quality team in 2017 and 2018, but the players didn't play like they believed they were. Clearly talented enough to get into a winning position most games, but not mentally tough or disciplined enough to go on with it. That's the difference.
I don’t know about that. I think the general feeling is the opposite. Like they assumed they were top 4 and didn’t need to do the extra hard yards.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote:
December 3, 2019, 8:49 pm
As to whether the fan base should discuss them, kind of irrelevant.
I think you underestimate the impact the fan base can have on the culture of a sporting organisation, especially when the market is as small as ours. What this fanbase has done is not discussion, it's been finger pointing for our own shortfallings.

The stakeholders/customers can play a MAJOR role in enabling a culture of unaccountability.
Which is exactly what this club's fan base has done for decades... myself included until the last 3-4 years.

You see it across every sporting landscape. NRL, AFL, Soccer, NFL, Hockey, Baseball... name a sport and you'll find it. And those who do the TED talks will probably tell you it's not exclusive to sporting orgnanisations.
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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by gergreg »

25 years of failure, with a few brief moments of sheer joy, makes me so nervous, with the very real fear of ending up in the foetal position with a thumping (drowning of sorrows) hangover.

I'm sorry for taking it for granted in the 90s and not enjoying it more.

We as a fan base deserve to go one better than last year and most neutrals would be right behind us if we get back to a GF.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Seiffert82 »

gangrenous wrote:
December 3, 2019, 8:52 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:Yes. I firmly believed we were a top 4 quality team in 2017 and 2018, but the players didn't play like they believed they were. Clearly talented enough to get into a winning position most games, but not mentally tough or disciplined enough to go on with it. That's the difference.
I don’t know about that. I think the general feeling is the opposite. Like they assumed they were top 4 and didn’t need to do the extra hard yards.
Yep, fair call. They clearly didn't do the hard work in the 2016-17 offseason and went into the 2017 under-prepared. Then progressively over the next 2 seasons they played without the mentality or the discipline to go the extra yard to win those close games.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Botman wrote:
December 3, 2019, 8:50 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:
December 3, 2019, 8:42 pm
Now, that wasn't entirely planned. If I recall correctly, the club offered contract extensions to Austin, Paulo and Boyd. Obviously, none of them took their offers up before the offers were pulled. In hindsight it was the best thing to happen to the club, and the rest is history.
They didnt take the offers because the club evaluated their value, and for once in their life, stood firm on that and were comfortable letting them walk over paying them more than they thought they were worth

It was... to be perfectly frank... maybe the most significant moment in this club's recent history. The lesson has hopefully been learnt. Evaluate your roster, ruthlessly manage it, sign players at values you think ARE valuable. I dont think it was an accident.

I think... at least i hope it was an organisational shift in philosophy
Yeah, maybe. Hard to say without knowing what the offers were.

At the end of the day, our club was clearly better off without those players than with them, so even having them in the squad on a reduced contract would have been pointless IMO. They would still have been on decent money, clogging up the roster and more than likely hanging around with a negative attitude.

Out of the three, I think only Junior Paulo offered anything of worth. Both Austin and Boyd were terrible in defence and next to useless in attack by that stage. Paulo was the only one worth a contract offer.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by The Nickman »

gangrenous wrote:
December 3, 2019, 8:52 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:Yes. I firmly believed we were a top 4 quality team in 2017 and 2018, but the players didn't play like they believed they were. Clearly talented enough to get into a winning position most games, but not mentally tough or disciplined enough to go on with it. That's the difference.
I don’t know about that. I think the general feeling is the opposite. Like they assumed they were top 4 and didn’t need to do the extra hard yards.
Yeah, I have to say I agree with both of you here.

I agree with Seiff that we had a Top 4 team in 2017/18.

And I agree with Fergrenous that the team believed their own hype from 2016 too much and weren't prepared to do the hard yards to get themselves there again. I really, really hope 2020 isn't a repeat of this, as we've seen time and time again with this organisation for the last two decades.
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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year ?

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-PJ- wrote:
November 30, 2019, 2:02 pm
I just want to be in the mix. Fighting.

I would surrender a testicle to win a comp..right now!!
man with three testicles can give them up easier.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Seiffert82 »

The Nickman wrote:
December 5, 2019, 11:24 am
gangrenous wrote:
December 3, 2019, 8:52 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:Yes. I firmly believed we were a top 4 quality team in 2017 and 2018, but the players didn't play like they believed they were. Clearly talented enough to get into a winning position most games, but not mentally tough or disciplined enough to go on with it. That's the difference.
I don’t know about that. I think the general feeling is the opposite. Like they assumed they were top 4 and didn’t need to do the extra hard yards.
Yeah, I have to say I agree with both of you here.

I agree with Seiff that we had a Top 4 team in 2017/18.

And I agree with Fergrenous that the team believed their own hype from 2016 too much and weren't prepared to do the hard yards to get themselves there again. I really, really hope 2020 isn't a repeat of this, as we've seen time and time again with this organisation for the last two decades.
Yep, we obviously all hope that this is the case. I guess the difference is they made the GF last season on the back of hard work, whereas in 2016 it was off the back of some freakish form from the threequarters (in particular) and middles whose defensive shortcomings were compensated for by powerful running when in good field position created by our threequarters.

I think the attitude of the squad has totally changed. They take pride in their defence and we have far less reliance on a handful of individuals in attack.

There is so much potential in this team. Our defence is so close to where it needs to be and our attack has so much more improvement in it. Hodgo, Papa, Whitehead, Bateman, Williams (hopefully), Wighton and Leilua are all world class in their positions. This team could legit be anything if they get their **** together.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by sprintman »

Panthers sign Tetevano. They'll be strong next year

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Coastalraider »

The bit that has me hesitant is the knowledge that it is near impossible to go ‘back to back’. I know the rooters just did it, but it’s exceptionally rare. Unless you are the storm or the rooters, making consecutive GFs is just as rare.

So many things have to go right. You have to max your cap for a window. You have to create the right motivation within the squad for an extended period. You have to have luck/great management with injuries, and you need a % of your squad to play above their pay grade. You need to manage the fatigue in your key players, who are usually carrying load from origin. You need the finals to line up favourably, and you need the way the game is reffed to be fairly consistent throughout the year to not effect your strengths in style (aka Souths falling off when the ruck speed slows down). You also need to have a 3-4 game streak in the finals with crap like #sixagain.

We are in the strongest position I can ever remember. Period. But there is an exceptionally long way to go.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Penrith should have been strong this year.

Cleary needs to find a mate for Cleary Jr. Lot of pressure to find someone to replace Maloney if May remains out of action.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by GreenmilkmachineNZ »

Canberra 2020 is there's ,there's some other clubs that are good,but they are no Vikings.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by BJ »

I’m a little concerned we could be like a Warriors team who makes Grand Finals only to be weak the following season.

We will need to add another string to our bow.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by The Nickman »

BJ wrote:I’m a little concerned we could be like a Warriors team who makes Grand Finals only to be weak the following season.

We will need to add another string to our bow.
Same approach, attitude and determination as we had this year should be enough.

Anything less and it won’t be.
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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by BadnMean »

BJ wrote:
December 26, 2019, 9:00 am
I’m a little concerned we could be like a Warriors team who makes Grand Finals only to be weak the following season.

We will need to add another string to our bow.
There's always that risk and we've had seasons like that recently.

But the obvious errors that caused that have been fixed since then and not repeated- no squad freshen up/competition after 2016; poorly planned pre-season.

The other big issue was attitude. That started from the top with Ricky's talk about preparing for finals before the season had even started and pervaded the whole squad with a bit of entitled attitude.

I really think they've learned from that. Guys like Hodgo are smart enough to learn, Bateman isn't going to turn up anything except 100%. In general, a few lazier guys got shifted out of the squad and a few humbler or hungrier guys CNK etc) got shifted in. Critical mass of attitude is different within the squad and Ricky seems to have recognised what he did wrong.

I think we'll be strong. There's dozens of variables that can affect a season but all things equal, I don't think we'll fade.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yeah, the vibe is definitely different for all those reasons.

I also think the playing group would have learnt a lot about what it took to make a grand final based on hard work and defence, rather than a freaky run of red-hot attack.

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Botman »

Every successful coach i've ever heard talk about this has been insanely consistent about 1 thing...

You cant link seasons. Each season is it's own beast, it's own journey. You have to kill the previous season and start again each year. The teams that fail are the ones who try and make those incrimental changes, and just kind of fall into a trap of expecting if they keep doing what they're doing, and make improvements, the results will improve in a linear fashion

The reality is, from my experience as a watcher and from what i've heard from coaches, is to go into each season prepared to find out what you're team is going or be. Just because we were a defensively focused team in 2019 doesnt mean that's our route to success in 2020. It might be, but we need to be open to it not being too.

The club needs to get back into training, bury the 2019 season and begin again. Bill Belichick has presided over unprecidented levels of success in a salary cap league. He's the best coach i've ever seen. HIs quote recently was "Attack weaknesses, utilize strengths and figure out what the strengths are on your team."

Personnel that is largely the same might have different collective strengths to what last year provided. Be open to wiping the slate clean and letting this team come together in whatever fashion they come together, and figure out the strengths.

This philosphy is vital to sustained success.
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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by magoo »

Well said, I could not agree more.
Personally I hope for something resembling a set move of higher quality than displayed in 2019. So many times this season I felt we could do better close to the line. Don't know a great deal about GW but I reckon Jack has it in him. Time will tell

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Re: I think we're close, is 2020 our year?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yes, each new year is a new start - but with the vast majority of the squad being the same we are in a position to build on where we are, rather than re-define who we are. Last season we laid a platform around a more mobile pack who were much more responsive and aggressive in defence. This coming year, the pack is much the same - it's our backline which will have a few tweaks to it.

The thing that impresses me is that we made the Grand Final despite a number of our players either being below their best or still developing. This team hasn't peaked. That's the challenge and opportunity for our coaching staff. If they can get most of the squad playing near their best for most of the season, we are right up there.

The room for improvement in our attack is ridiculous. Rapa leaving could be a blow, and who knows what the story is with Leilua, but the coach has so much to work with, in CNK, Wighton as well as George W and Scott coming in.

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