Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

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greeneyed
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Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by greeneyed » October 9, 2019, 7:19 pm

Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

The Canberra Raiders are aiming to re-sign their soon-to-be-off-contract stars, Jack Wighton, Jarrod Croker, Nick Cotric, and perhaps Joey Leilua.

"This week's probably just getting over the hurt of the grand final and then we'll start to sit down the week after that. Certainly Crokes, Nick Cotric and Jack Wighton are priorities," Peter Mulholland said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by edwahu » October 10, 2019, 7:16 am

Good to hear BJ may stay on.

Also interesting that Lomax was "shopped" to us for 2021 even though the Dragons want to keep him. It could just be his manager trying to create competition but maybe its also a sign that players are proactively wanting to join the club.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Seiffert82 » October 10, 2019, 7:33 am

I'm not sure how they are going to manage it all. Sezer is likely gone, as are a bunch of squaddies like Abbey, Hunt and Hingano. Murchie looks gone too.

It sounds like Rapana might be back on a pay cut and who knows what's happening with Leilua. Luke Bateman would have taken a pay cut for his one year extension. Williams will likely take a bit of a cut too if he stays.

We've got G Williams coming in and decent pay rises for CNK and John Bateman and probably Simonsson. Those four things are likely going to cost you around $1m. We are very lucky CNK extended on a modest contract. Hopefully some TPAs might come out of the woodwork. Leilua was on contract for next season, so the sticking point for him appeared to be the extension beyond 2020.

Soliola will likely retire after his contract expires next season and it's highly unlikely Rapana will be here beyond 2020 if he stays.

It'll be interesting.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Dusty » October 10, 2019, 8:31 am

My thinking at the moment

Let Sezer and Rapana go...

Upgrade J. Bateman and CNK...

Extend Leilua

Keep S. Williams as back up half.

Simonson moves to right wing with Kris and Oldfield as depth.

Our Middle forwards for 2020:
Papalii
Tapine*
Soliola
Guler
Horsburgh
Sutton
Hethrington
Havili*
L. Bateman


Our edge forwards
J. Bateman
Whitehead
Young
Murchie
Tapine*

Hookers and halves
Wighton
G. Williams
S. Williams
Hodgson
Havili*
Starling


Outside backs
CNK
Cotric
Croker
Leilua
Simonson
Oldfield
Kris








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2019: 1. Wighton 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4 Leilua 5. Oldfield (Rapana) 6. Williams 7. Sezer 8. Sutton 9. Hodgson (c) 10. Papalii 11. Tapine 12. Whitehead 13. J.Bateman ----
14. Havili 15. Soliola 16. Guler 17. Lui

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Mickey_Raider » October 10, 2019, 8:34 am

It’s a good opportunity to retain the crucial elements of our team while also regenerating at the same time.

Trying to “run it back” with an identical team and expecting superior results has often historically led to disappointment. Other teams improve and figure you out so you constantly need to be in a state of evolution.

I think the regeneration comes from G.Williams and the increased involvement and injection of speed that Simonsson brings.

Also ramping up the minutes of young guns Guler and Hors will keep us fresh.
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Azza » October 10, 2019, 9:16 am

Mickey_Raider wrote:
October 10, 2019, 8:34 am
It’s a good opportunity to retain the crucial elements of our team while also regenerating at the same time.

Trying to “run it back” with an identical team and expecting superior results has often historically led to disappointment. Other teams improve and figure you out so you constantly need to be in a state of evolution.

I think the regeneration comes from G.Williams and the increased involvement and injection of speed that Simonsson brings.

Also ramping up the minutes of young guns Guler and Hors will keep us fresh.
Agreed. Hopefully the club has learned the hard lessons from 2016-17.

We need to find more pace in our backline and hopefully Williams is the goods - that is a huge question mark for next year. Teams will come up with strategies to try and shut us down based on the game plan we used this year, so we need to evolve.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by zim » October 10, 2019, 9:16 am

Guler made some nice runs in the GF. Hope he brings the same confidence to round 1. Starting to look intimidating.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by TongueFTW » October 10, 2019, 9:30 am

The fact that Guler had arguably his best game to date playing 20 minutes in a GF is a very, very promising sign for what his future holds. As I have mentioned before - he spent his whole career in junior rep sides, I watched him as a Souths junior and he was an absolute stand out his whole way through. Him and Horsburgh (and Young, if he can cut out the rubbish) are really solid young forwards, we need to hold onto them and continue to develop.

We shouldn't make the mistake of "we have Simmonson now, we can let Rapana go" - remember how many games Simmonson played this year as depth. We need quality depth, if we lose Rapana, we need to hope that Smith-Shields makes the step up because Oldfield is probably better as a second cab off the rank. You need at least two first grade quality backs as back up, this year we had Simmonson and Oldfield, if we lose a starter we need a really quality back up to come through.

I still think Leilua is worth keeping with Rapana for another season at least, use the bulk of the Sezer money to upgrade Bateman.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by thegreenmachine » October 10, 2019, 1:43 pm

why are we upgrading CNK already when he is signed for 3yrs? are you meaning post 2023?

if players have signed a contract on a set salary, can they really force/negotiate with the club to upgrade again prior to their current contract expiring?
Dusty wrote:
October 10, 2019, 8:31 am
My thinking at the moment

Let Sezer and Rapana go...

Upgrade J. Bateman and CNK...

Extend Leilua

Keep S. Williams as back up half.

Simonson moves to right wing with Kris and Oldfield as depth.

Our Middle forwards for 2020:
Papalii
Tapine*
Soliola
Guler
Horsburgh
Sutton
Hethrington
Havili*
L. Bateman


Our edge forwards
J. Bateman
Whitehead
Young
Murchie
Tapine*

Hookers and halves
Wighton
G. Williams
S. Williams
Hodgson
Havili*
Starling


Outside backs
CNK
Cotric
Croker
Leilua
Simonson
Oldfield
Kris








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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by zim » October 10, 2019, 1:47 pm

thegreenmachine wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:43 pm
why are we upgrading CNK already when he is signed for 3yrs? are you meaning post 2023?

if players have signed a contract on a set salary, can they really force/negotiate with the club to upgrade again prior to their current contract expiring?
Dusty wrote:
October 10, 2019, 8:31 am
My thinking at the moment

Let Sezer and Rapana go...

Upgrade J. Bateman and CNK...

Extend Leilua

Keep S. Williams as back up half.

Simonson moves to right wing with Kris and Oldfield as depth.

Our Middle forwards for 2020:
Papalii
Tapine*
Soliola
Guler
Horsburgh
Sutton
Hethrington
Havili*
L. Bateman


Our edge forwards
J. Bateman
Whitehead
Young
Murchie
Tapine*

Hookers and halves
Wighton
G. Williams
S. Williams
Hodgson
Havili*
Starling


Outside backs
CNK
Cotric
Croker
Leilua
Simonson
Oldfield
Kris








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They most certainly can. See Bateman at the moment. CNK has already been upgraded but maybe dusty was thinking we'd need to bump it up again down the line. He's reportedly on a bargin price even after the upgrade. Especially if he backs up this years form with another good season.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by The Rickman » October 10, 2019, 1:53 pm

thegreenmachine wrote:why are we upgrading CNK already when he is signed for 3yrs? are you meaning post 2023?

if players have signed a contract on a set salary, can they really force/negotiate with the club to upgrade again prior to their current contract expiring?
Dusty wrote:
October 10, 2019, 8:31 am
My thinking at the moment

Let Sezer and Rapana go...

Upgrade J. Bateman and CNK...

Extend Leilua

Keep S. Williams as back up half.

Simonson moves to right wing with Kris and Oldfield as depth.

Our Middle forwards for 2020:
Papalii
Tapine*
Soliola
Guler
Horsburgh
Sutton
Hethrington
Havili*
L. Bateman


Our edge forwards
J. Bateman
Whitehead
Young
Murchie
Tapine*

Hookers and halves
Wighton
G. Williams
S. Williams
Hodgson
Havili*
Starling


Outside backs
CNK
Cotric
Croker
Leilua
Simonson
Oldfield
Kris








Sent from my iPhone using The Greenhouse
Because he signed on at minimum wage and has already proven to be a vital cog in our machine and worth a LOT more.

Thinking you can continue to pay somebody what they’re not worth for another three years just because they have an existing contract is a VERY bad business decision, and absolutely unfair on a guy like Nikoll-Klokstad
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by thegreenmachine » October 10, 2019, 1:54 pm

yes CNK definitely need to be bumped up further down the line if he continues playing like this.

as for Bateman i think he's going to be bumped up pretty high considering he won Dally M Second Rower of the Year. he's definitely worth $700k+

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by The Rickman » October 10, 2019, 1:56 pm

CNK needs to be bumped up NOW. He should not be on minimum wage next season and to do so would be utter madness
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by thegreenmachine » October 10, 2019, 1:59 pm

The Rickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:56 pm
CNK needs to be bumped up NOW. He should not be on minimum wage next season and to do so would be utter madness
I thought he was bumped up to $330,000/yr for a few years?

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Botman » October 10, 2019, 2:05 pm

He's already signed his extension. His bump kicks in for 2021.
Though i wont be surprised if once the squad has been settled for 2020, and we know where Sezer is going and what freight we've got to pay, and the Bateman upgrade is sorted and the Beej/Rapana situation is sorted, and all that other jazz... i wont be surprised if at the end of all that, if they've got some money left they feel comfortable spending, if they dont get his manager in to do a contract variation for 2020 and give him whatever bump up they can
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Raider47 » October 10, 2019, 2:06 pm

Yeah I kind of hope we keep Rapana AND Leilua IF we have the money. I really liked Simonsson off the bench as I think he can do a role no one else can and having Havili on the bench and 3 forwards is something I'm not sure is worth. Also it's a good opportunity for a year of consolidation before Simonsson is our starting winger in 2021.

1. CNK
2. Cotric
3. Croker
4. Leilua
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. G Williams
8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. Sutton
11. J Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Simonsson
15. Guler
16. Horsburgh
17. Soliola

18. Havili
19. Lui
20. Oldfield
21. S Williams

22. Kris
23. Young
24. L Bateman
25. JJ Collins

Then some young quality in Harley-Shields, Patterson, Trevilyan etc.
Last edited by Raider47 on October 10, 2019, 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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"We’re all really excited about what’s going on here at the Raiders"- Blake Austin
"I’m very happy to have signed this extension and I love playing footy in Canberra"- Jack Wighton
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Botman » October 10, 2019, 2:06 pm

thegreenmachine wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:59 pm
The Rickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:56 pm
CNK needs to be bumped up NOW. He should not be on minimum wage next season and to do so would be utter madness
I thought he was bumped up to $330,000/yr for a few years?
Based on media reports, he's getting about 450k a year from 2021 onwards, for 2020, his current deal holds up
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by The Rickman » October 10, 2019, 2:09 pm

PigRickman wrote:
thegreenmachine wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:59 pm
The Rickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:56 pm
CNK needs to be bumped up NOW. He should not be on minimum wage next season and to do so would be utter madness
I thought he was bumped up to $330,000/yr for a few years?
Based on media reports, he's getting about 450k a year from 2021 onwards, for 2020, his current deal holds up
Boy, getting paid minimum wage next season for a guy who is probably going to be a top 4 fullback for a top 4 team seems VERY harsh to me.

I mean, full credit to Charnze, because he’s exactly the type of bloke who won’t kick up a fuss and will continue to give his all, but he’s well entitled to all of a sudden develop a serious bout of homesickness and head for Brisbane IMO
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by zim » October 10, 2019, 2:12 pm

thegreenmachine wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:59 pm
The Rickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:56 pm
CNK needs to be bumped up NOW. He should not be on minimum wage next season and to do so would be utter madness
I thought he was bumped up to $330,000/yr for a few years?
That's the average for the remainder of his contract. The upgrade kicks in from 2021. It's a pretty crazy deal he's accepted.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by edwahu » October 10, 2019, 2:18 pm

I wonder if we still give players automatic upgrades for making rep footy for the first time? Jack, Cotric and likely CNK would be due to get one. Simo and Sutton an outside chance as well. Things could get quite ugly if we do.

I'd assume we don't hand them out for 9's and U23s at least. Although you would think Horse is a pretty solid chance of playing Origin next year anyway.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Botman » October 10, 2019, 2:20 pm

The Rickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 2:09 pm
PigRickman wrote:
thegreenmachine wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:59 pm
The Rickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:56 pm
CNK needs to be bumped up NOW. He should not be on minimum wage next season and to do so would be utter madness
I thought he was bumped up to $330,000/yr for a few years?
Based on media reports, he's getting about 450k a year from 2021 onwards, for 2020, his current deal holds up
Boy, getting paid minimum wage next season for a guy who is probably going to be a top 4 fullback for a top 4 team seems VERY harsh to me.

I mean, full credit to Charnze, because he’s exactly the type of bloke who won’t kick up a fuss and will continue to give his all, but he’s well entitled to all of a sudden develop a serious bout of homesickness and head for Brisbane IMO
Agreed. I really hope the club remembers this come February 2020.
Unlike over sports, our cap money doesnt roll over, its use it or lose it, so once our 30 man squad is finalised, i really hope the club rectifies it if they can. Even if it's just 100k, if we've got it spare, i would absolutely get his manager in and do a one year variation on his contract for 2020 and pay him what we can before his new deal kicks in.... even if its only 20k-30k... that sort of gesture will be remembered by a guy like him, and its the right and fair thing to do
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by The Rickman » October 10, 2019, 2:21 pm

PigRickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 2:20 pm
The Rickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 2:09 pm
PigRickman wrote:
thegreenmachine wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:59 pm
The Rickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:56 pm
CNK needs to be bumped up NOW. He should not be on minimum wage next season and to do so would be utter madness
I thought he was bumped up to $330,000/yr for a few years?
Based on media reports, he's getting about 450k a year from 2021 onwards, for 2020, his current deal holds up
Boy, getting paid minimum wage next season for a guy who is probably going to be a top 4 fullback for a top 4 team seems VERY harsh to me.

I mean, full credit to Charnze, because he’s exactly the type of bloke who won’t kick up a fuss and will continue to give his all, but he’s well entitled to all of a sudden develop a serious bout of homesickness and head for Brisbane IMO
Agreed. I really hope the club remembers this come February 2020.
Unlike over sports, our cap money doesnt roll over, its use it or lose it, so once our 30 man squad is finalised, i really hope the club rectifies it if they can. Even if it's just 100k, if we've got it spare, i would absolutely get his manager in and do a one year variation on his contract for 2020 and pay him what we can before his new deal kicks in.... even if its only 20k-30k... that sort of gesture will be remembered by a guy like him, and its the right and fair thing to do
Yup, agreed.
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by greeneyed » October 10, 2019, 2:55 pm

CNK has already been upgraded... deal just done. Given he and the club have just agreed it... are people seriously saying already it isn't reasonable? Have I missed something?
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by The Rickman » October 10, 2019, 2:58 pm

greeneyed wrote:
October 10, 2019, 2:55 pm
CNK has already been upgraded... deal just done. Given he and the club have just agreed it... are people seriously saying already it isn't reasonable? Have I missed something?
Who is saying that? All I've said is that if he's being paid close to minimum wage for 2020 it's pretty unfair.

If he's been upgraded for next season then good, it's how it should be.
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Botman » October 10, 2019, 4:22 pm

greeneyed wrote:
October 10, 2019, 2:55 pm
CNK has already been upgraded... deal just done. Given he and the club have just agreed it... are people seriously saying already it isn't reasonable? Have I missed something?
Just for 2020
He’s done us a huge favour signing a deal where his upgrade isn’t coming until 2021

We don’t get to roll cap space over so if we do have money to spare... and I don’t think that we will if I’m honest... but if we do, I’d be ok with reworking the last year of his current deal and giving him a bump up.

I am not renegotiating his extension. That’s been done in good faith and in the middle of his stellar season.
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Billy Walker » October 11, 2019, 12:30 pm

greeneyed wrote:
October 10, 2019, 2:55 pm
CNK has already been upgraded... deal just done. Given he and the club have just agreed it... are people seriously saying already it isn't reasonable? Have I missed something?
The upgrade system is a one way street. How many players walk into Furner’s office with a refund check if they haven’t played to the standard they were signed up to? I’m of the view that the club and players agree terms that both can live with. If the player performs above or below expectations over the period of the deal that will influence the terms of the next deal. We can’t be shelling out extra $$$ for everyone who strings a few good games together.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by hiriser » October 11, 2019, 1:54 pm

Or you just do it Roosters style.

Claim all your young stars are still playing on their minimum wage level deals and pay them in brown paper bags instead.

I still remember when Daniel Tupou was supposed only $50k a year when he was playing SOO.

Players like Vic Radley, Joseph Manu are still on peanuts apparently and are happy to continue doing so until their current contracts expire. Sure.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by magoo » October 13, 2019, 12:27 am

The Nickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:56 pm
CNK needs to be bumped up NOW. He should not be on minimum wage next season and to do so would be utter madness
He has thoroughly earned a pay rise. Couldn't think of a more deserving person. Ah maybe myself, boss might disagree.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Billy Walker » October 13, 2019, 6:40 am

magoo wrote:
October 13, 2019, 12:27 am
The Nickman wrote:
October 10, 2019, 1:56 pm
CNK needs to be bumped up NOW. He should not be on minimum wage next season and to do so would be utter madness
He has thoroughly earned a pay rise. Couldn't think of a more deserving person. Ah maybe myself, boss might disagree.
Depending on circumstances, I suspect most of us would be happy working on minimum wages for a year or two if you your income was guaranteed to jump into insane $$ in the third or fourth year.

I suspect most these guys would be comfortable taking a holistic view of a contract. Ie: as long as I have enough to live each year you can pay me my $1.3m however you like as long as at the end of three years you have paid me $1.3m.

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BadnMean
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by BadnMean » October 13, 2019, 10:45 am

Worth noting that the "minimum wage" is over 100k/year. That's good money to bide your time on for a year, with some sponsorships or rep bonuses/payments coming in on top as he's just made the NZ squad.

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greeneyed
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by greeneyed » October 14, 2019, 9:25 am

Bailey Simonsson eyes Canberra Raiders starting role

Bailey Simonsson is desperate to force his way into the Canberra Raiders' starting side as clouds hover over the Green Machine's right edge.

"Yeah definitely. I'd like to be a permanent in the starting 13," Simonsson said. "But I'll just keep playing whatever role the coaches want from me and do my best.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... n-a-start/
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Billy Walker » October 14, 2019, 3:24 pm

So with all the discussion about other players and potential upgrades, what is the club supposed to do with someone like Simmonsen? I would have said he is a fringe first grader with huge potential and there is a good opportunity to lock him in long term on relatively modest money given he is still reasonably unproven. I’d say this would be a smart gamble but everything I’m reading suggests if you did do that and he puts together a decent season he’d be in the office hand out seeking an upgrade.

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edwahu
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by edwahu » October 14, 2019, 3:36 pm

They already signed Simmonson long term.

He might earn an upgrade but I don't think its that easy from the wing. He is the prime example that you can find good wingers anywhere.

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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by Cranky Old Man » October 14, 2019, 6:07 pm

From a probably reliable source, Rapana is off to Japan on $500K, back to Canberra circa round 3 on minimum wage. Don't know what happens after 2020.

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edwahu
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Re: Canberra Raiders preparing to start extending grand final heroes

Post by edwahu » October 14, 2019, 6:36 pm

Cranky Old Man wrote:
October 14, 2019, 6:07 pm
From a probably reliable source, Rapana is off to Japan on $500K, back to Canberra circa round 3 on minimum wage. Don't know what happens after 2020.
Pretty awesome deal if true. We should line up a few of those for others players.

Although I doubt it's possible under the NRL rules, they will surely lodge his deal at a much higher salary.

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