Will next year be different to 2016

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papabear
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Will next year be different to 2016

Post by papabear » October 8, 2019, 2:40 pm

First off I had a ripping GF day and absolutely loved everything about it.

Was the absolute best.

My question, that no one will know the answer for until 2020 is should we expect anything different from 2020 then 2017.

2016 we went down fighting and imo if we didnt bomb that first game against the sharks, I like our chances at winning the comp.

We hung onto players like boyd, paulo and austin for far to long but at the end of 2016 they looked like world beaters...

What are everyones thoughts about 2020, whether we will have our usual let down after a good year or if something is going to be different about next year.





Totally different subject, but did anyone feel a bit deflated when charnze went off, I thought he was the best on the ground up until that point.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by edwahu » October 8, 2019, 2:59 pm

Having a top class defense should be much more sustainable than the 2016 style. The playing group would have matured a lot and would be hungry to get the job done. We also have a better squad now with arguably the best forward in the world in Papa plus elite tier talent talent in Jack, Hodgo and Bateman. That's supported by a lot of very good players with big match experience.

So I think a lot would have to go wrong for us to have a repeat of 2017. I would say contract negotiations are the most likely to derail us if anything,

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Raiders666 » October 8, 2019, 3:02 pm

I always thought through this year that next year will be our year. We should be much better next year imo especially with Williams coming. CNK and Wighton will only continue to get better also

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Leeroy Jenkins » October 8, 2019, 3:05 pm

I always thought that 2016 was a fluke based on our flukey attack... we were different to every team because of it, and it was unsustainable.

Over the last 10 years or whatever it's consistently been the better defending teams, and teams with better defensive attitudes, that make finals and win grand finals.

That's the difference between 2016 and 2019, which means I don't think there will be a repeat of 2017 in 2020. 2020 is our year, we're in the window.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by CJ42 » October 8, 2019, 3:17 pm

2016 - purple patch of insanely showy attack with below average defense. we lack defense and it shows the next two seasons.
2019 - top 2/3 defense with a slightly uncreative red zone attack. we lack a playmaking half (although i think sezer has that ability he just wasnt utilised in that way, or he cant work with a dominant hooker)

using hindsight, we have much more to look forward to. we could have solved an issue in our attack and we defend very well.
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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Binners99 » October 8, 2019, 3:26 pm

I’m a little worried about the fact we can’t ambush teams like we did this year. Every team we go up against will now know they need to be at their best to beat us

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by afgtnk » October 8, 2019, 3:31 pm

It will be if we keep adjusting our game.

In 2017 we were arrogant to think that exactly the same thing from 2016 would work it. It didn't - we didn't work anywhere near hard enough on our defence, and other teams quickly worked us out in attack.

Therefore, we need to evolve again for next season and we need to shed players where we can. The side to me right now lacks speed, creativity, a better short kicking game, and support play. I think with all fingers crossed, Georgie Boy helps to potentially improve all those points. A Simo for Rapa swap would help our speed.

This may or may not be an unpopular opinion given how many metres he ran on Sunday, but again I also think CNK has to make a lot of improvement in his attack (especially how and where he receives the ball) and his support play. Papalii gets through that ad line with his hands free more often than not, ready to pass, and there isn't a player in sight; that needs to become his bread and butter for our attack to improve.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by edwahu » October 8, 2019, 3:37 pm

I think CNK showed some good signs in attack in the grand final. The pass he put on for the BJ missed opportunity was probably his best ball playing this year.

It's a odd thing to worry about but one of my main concerns would be that we come flying out of the blocks and win a heap of games in a row. This seems to set a lot of teams up to fade come finals time. I'm also hoping for a tough draw, I think the Eels showed again why you need one to really compete in the finals.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by -PJ- » October 8, 2019, 3:39 pm

What we saw in 19 has to be the new standard.

We are now a club players hopefully want to play for.
Ricky has the joint humming.

I want this club to be a super club, we are a finals team..
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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by rayden83 » October 8, 2019, 3:55 pm

2016’s success was on the back of Rapana, Leilua and Austin being in out of this world form
2019’s success was on the back of defense

As long as continue the same intensity in defense in 2019 AND Williams turns out to be as good as we hope we will be a top 4 contender

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by afgtnk » October 8, 2019, 4:02 pm

edwahu wrote:
October 8, 2019, 3:37 pm
I think CNK showed some good signs in attack in the grand final. The pass he put on for the BJ missed opportunity was probably his best ball playing this year.

It's a odd thing to worry about but one of my main concerns would be that we come flying out of the blocks and win a heap of games in a row. This seems to set a lot of teams up to fade come finals time. I'm also hoping for a tough draw, I think the Eels showed again why you need one to really compete in the finals.
It was definitely a good pass and a sign of improvement from him compared to earlier in the season. I still see him get caught flat footed way too often though, and I think he has trouble reading the movements of the defensive line.

If he can make those improvements and George can settle in nicely, we will be back near the top again IMO provided our defensive focus continues. Whether that level of intensity in defence is sustainable again week after week remains to be seen though.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by afgtnk » October 8, 2019, 4:05 pm

rayden83 wrote:
October 8, 2019, 3:55 pm
2016’s success was on the back of Rapana, Leilua and Austin being in out of this world form
2019’s success was on the back of defense

As long as continue the same intensity in defense in 2019 AND Williams turns out to be as good as we hope we will be a top 4 contender
Do you mean Hodgo? Austin was pretty average in '16.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by zim » October 8, 2019, 4:17 pm

CNK getting a pre-season at fullback is going to help a lot. Certainly far more than 2 weeks.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by -PJ- » October 8, 2019, 4:31 pm

I hope and pray GWilliams proves to be a good move.

I really do.
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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by afgtnk » October 8, 2019, 4:31 pm

It should help yeah. I wonder if there's a way we can get someone like Billy Slater down to do some one on one work with him in that time. He managed to develop his ball playing from nothing after the game demanded that fullback's evolve, so who better to learn from.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by rayden83 » October 8, 2019, 5:10 pm

afgtnk wrote:
October 8, 2019, 4:05 pm
rayden83 wrote:
October 8, 2019, 3:55 pm
2016’s success was on the back of Rapana, Leilua and Austin being in out of this world form
2019’s success was on the back of defense

As long as continue the same intensity in defense in 2019 AND Williams turns out to be as good as we hope we will be a top 4 contender
Do you mean Hodgo? Austin was pretty average in '16.
Far out time flies. I thought his first season was 2016. Those last 3 years were really garbage (except the Bulldogs game - club legend)

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Leeroy Jenkins » October 8, 2019, 6:15 pm

afgtnk wrote:
October 8, 2019, 4:31 pm
I wonder if there's a way we can get someone like Billy Slater down to do some one on one work with him in that time.
He played 20s at the storm and was at the warriors, so he’s been around two of the best ever since he joined the NRL.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Billy Walker » October 8, 2019, 6:22 pm

I think you need to continually evolve to stay near the pointy end. Not wholesale turnover just constant refinement. In my view the biggest thing in Raiders favour for 2020 is the fact that I can’t recall Ricky making a single bad call in 2019. There is a good feel about things!

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Botman » October 8, 2019, 6:45 pm

The team is going to be quite a bit different. For one we're going to have George Williams and Wighton in the halves, not Wighton and Sezer... that'll change how the team plays straight away... the hope is George is a willing and capable defender and can add some much needed creativity to the side. If that's what he is and the team around him performs at the same level, straight up, we're a better team next year.

but aside from that CNK has established himself as a real NRL fullback and pretty damn good one... his next step is to go to the elite level and to do that it'll be about developing that ball playing side of his game. If he can do that, in year two, this team is a totally different beast

I do think the defensive side of things can be replicated. So long as George isnt Sam level.
Because the defensive is given through Bateman, Sia, Papalii and the middle guys, our edge forwards are smart and capable defenders so that helps the halves considerably.

And finally, i choose to believe the Ricky Stuart we saw this year is here to stay. This was a man who let go of all the baggage, who made a decision to end the culture in the club where it was always everyone elses fault. This is a coach and playing group right now who is absolutely buying into the concept of accountability, of reslience and of controlling what we can control and there was immediate affirmation from that, they went from a peahearted flat track bully to being a whisker away from creating their own legacy and history for this club

I believe the leadership and culture at this club has changed. And i believe what we have built is sustainable, even with some loses to the playing group such as Beej or Rapana.
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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Ronny P » October 8, 2019, 6:49 pm

-PJ- wrote:I hope and pray GWilliams proves to be a good move.

I really do.
Jackson Hastings made him look ordinary. Would you be banking on Jackson if he was signed? I agree with you i hope they got it right!


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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Billy Walker » October 8, 2019, 6:52 pm

PigRickman wrote:
October 8, 2019, 6:45 pm
The team is going to be quite a bit different. For one we're going to have George Williams and Wighton in the halves, not Wighton and Sezer... that'll change how the team plays straight away... the hope is George is a willing and capable defender and can add some much needed creativity to the side. If that's what he is and the team around him performs at the same level, straight up, we're a better team next year.

but aside from that CNK has established himself as a real NRL fullback and pretty damn good one... his next step is to go to the elite level and to do that it'll be about developing that ball playing side of his game. If he can do that, in year two, this team is a totally different beast

I do think the defensive side of things can be replicated. So long as George isnt Sam level.
Because the defensive is given through Bateman, Sia, Papalii and the middle guys, our edge forwards are smart and capable defenders so that helps the halves considerably.

And finally, i choose to believe the Ricky Stuart we saw this year is here to stay. This was a man who let go of all the baggage, who made a decision to end the culture in the club where it was always everyone elses fault. This is a coach and playing group right now who is absolutely buying into the concept of accountability, of reslience and of controlling what we can control and there was immediate affirmation from that, they went from a peahearted flat track bully to being a whisker away from creating their own legacy and history for this club

I believe the leadership and culture at this club has changed. And i believe what we have built is sustainable, even with some loses to the playing group such as Beej or Rapana.
Good post - agree with all that. Do you see much movement in the forwards? Some great young guns coming through might put pressure on Lui. As much as I hope Sia plays into his 50’s I wonder when time will catch up with him.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Azza » October 8, 2019, 9:48 pm

Nathan Brown has talked up G Williams big time. I am naturally wary, but I hope he delivers. Might take a good 8 or 9 matches to really tell.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by -TW- » October 8, 2019, 9:51 pm

Binners99 wrote:I’m a little worried about the fact we can’t ambush teams like we did this year. Every team we go up against will now know they need to be at their best to beat us
Who did we actually ambush?

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Azza » October 8, 2019, 9:59 pm

I think he means that no one expected us to do well, least of all the teams we played.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by -TW- » October 8, 2019, 10:02 pm

As long as we don't expect to roll up and a top four spot be handed to us I think we'll be fine.

The fact we came 2nd after having a garbage run of injuries mid year should go along way

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Butters » October 8, 2019, 10:39 pm

Injuries and cap management aside we should be well in the game for the next two years.


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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by yurithe1 » October 9, 2019, 10:01 am

They will have a different attitude in 2020 to what they did in 2017.

Back then, I posted an article on sports psychology that dealt with a US NBA team that had made the title play-offs. It was a huge achievement, but lost. The following year, players behaved as though they had won and carried on as if they deserved special treatment rather than getting stuck in and trying to go one better. Sound familiar?

This team is a different mix, they know they came close and they seem to be determined to go one better next year. They also saw the appreciation of the Canberra supporters throughout the finals and even after the GF.

Succession planning was also happening with Simonsson being groomed for Rapana's spot and Cotric being given a shot at centre. Raps and BJ aren't getting any younger or healthier with both suffering major injuries along the way. I think Cotric will develop into a decent centre once he's had a chance to string together a bunch of games there rather being a stop-gap measure. Oldfield will be there to cover a wing spot until we can find a solid prospect. I don't think Ricky is completely sold on Seb Kris or they wouldn't have taken a punt on bringing in the Savage kid.

Guler, Horsburgh, and other forwards being given more experience at NRL level. The two I've named are going to be stars for us one day.

Give us a decent draw around Origin time and towards the end of the season and we will be giving the 2020 finals a really good shake.

Let me say it now though: we are crap at starting seasons and I'm not going to read too much into what happens for the first three rounds unless the attitude does turn out to be **** or we still have with carry-over injuries from the rep games.
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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Botman » October 9, 2019, 10:20 am

Billy Walker wrote:
October 8, 2019, 6:52 pm
Good post - agree with all that. Do you see much movement in the forwards? Some great young guns coming through might put pressure on Lui. As much as I hope Sia plays into his 50’s I wonder when time will catch up with him.
I dont think there will be much movement in the forwards, no.
We're pretty locked in there with... Sia might retire, though i dont think that appears to be the case at this stage and i could see a scenario where Tapine is playing for another club next year... but again i doubt it.

I think they'll run it back and hope that with the changes in the halves, and the retirement of Cooper Cronk and potential retirement of Cam Smith should see the playing field level a little bit more, because those teams simply cant replace those guys, and whilst they'll still be excellent teams with talent up and down the line up, you'd expect at least a minor step back...

So i think for the most part we'll try and run it back, hope that George Williams is a step forward for us, and that puts us in a position on paper to feel really good about our chances in 2020
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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by gergreg » October 9, 2019, 11:13 am

I'm not sure of his situation but I wouldn't be against seeing what Crawley is doing next year. With Flanagan going to the Dragons I don't know if that changes Crawley's position? I think our attack needs a bit of a tweak and he's the man.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by pickles » October 9, 2019, 11:14 am

This season was completely different to 2016 and I think we actually have a huge amount of improvement in the team. We need to continue the focus we have had on our defence and aspire to be the number 1 defensive team in the comp and not just one of the best. We can do that by improving our line speed marginally. The Roosters were off their line quicker all night on Sunday and it shows in the metres made by each pack.

On the back of our defence we have found the ability to close out the close games and we certainly need to continue doing that.

Where I see a massive upside is in our attack. In 2016 it was based on off the cuff and risky but flamboyant ball movement but I think we now have the players to attack with more structure and methodically break teams down. Part of this will be Wighton and CNK having a year under their belt in their positions and part of it will be the capacity to focus on it more with our defence where it needs to be.

Given the way we play we definitely need CNK and Wighton following our forwards through the middle as there is often an offload opportunity with no support player following through. Given how hard we work over other teams middles we need to start to exploit that with speed and we could use a few set plays to do this.

I would also like to see some more set plays for when we are attacking in the opposition 20 where we can make space on the edges with crisp passing and good line running. We have only managed it a few times this season so we have the capacity but we need to be able to go to it more often.

Psychologically I think the hardest place to finish is second. Getting knocked out in a prelim is hard, as is missing the finals all together but going so close to winning it all and losing spurs teams on. I think it will drive us on to better things next year.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by pickles » October 9, 2019, 11:15 am

On the unrelated point, I wonder if our defence would have been more organised if CNK had stayed on and if we would have stopped the last try but it's hard to know. He had given absolutely everything and was a potential liability out there given how fatigued he was.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by BadnMean » October 9, 2019, 1:29 pm

edwahu wrote:
October 8, 2019, 2:59 pm
Having a top class defense should be much more sustainable than the 2016 style. The playing group would have matured a lot and would be hungry to get the job done. We also have a better squad now with arguably the best forward in the world in Papa plus elite tier talent talent in Jack, Hodgo and Bateman. That's supported by a lot of very good players with big match experience.

So I think a lot would have to go wrong for us to have a repeat of 2017. I would say contract negotiations are the most likely to derail us if anything,
I would say that defensive strength is the main difference- pretty sure they'll be hungry enough to back it up.

We also have much better depth across the board in this squad. We have genuinely good players not getting a game (Sutton, Simonsen, Oldfield etc).

We have more established rep players and big game experience now. From memory 16-17 we didn't freshen up the squad but it looks like the same mistake is not being repeated this time, with Williams and Hetherington and and probably a couple of other changes happening out of the rumoured 6 or so changes.

Ricky is also speaking differently. He bought in a sports psych after last years review to do some work and his attitude to ref decisions and challenges in the media at least has been chalk and cheese. Along with better resilience from the players I'd say that will also be more likely to maintain success and mount another challenge.

Injuries, form, suspensions and the potential for other clubs and teams to have breakout performances all complicate things but I think we'll roll on deep into the finals again.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by BadnMean » October 9, 2019, 1:37 pm

PigRickman wrote:
October 9, 2019, 10:20 am
Billy Walker wrote:
October 8, 2019, 6:52 pm
Good post - agree with all that. Do you see much movement in the forwards? Some great young guns coming through might put pressure on Lui. As much as I hope Sia plays into his 50’s I wonder when time will catch up with him.
I dont think there will be much movement in the forwards, no.
We're pretty locked in there with... Sia might retire, though i dont think that appears to be the case at this stage and i could see a scenario where Tapine is playing for another club next year... but again i doubt it.

I think they'll run it back and hope that with the changes in the halves, and the retirement of Cooper Cronk and potential retirement of Cam Smith should see the playing field level a little bit more, because those teams simply cant replace those guys, and whilst they'll still be excellent teams with talent up and down the line up, you'd expect at least a minor step back...

So i think for the most part we'll try and run it back, hope that George Williams is a step forward for us, and that puts us in a position on paper to feel really good about our chances in 2020
We have Hetherington coming in too don't forget.

I think any difference might be Lui slipping down the order with Hors and one of Sutton or Guler becoming a mainstay with him and Lui missing out. Sia won't clog things up if he's off the pace and would play as an injury/origin filler if asked. But he wound back the clock this year.

Hetherington will be interesting. I haven't seen him play but if he makes an impact then Sutton and Lui both might slip down to reggies.

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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Botman » October 9, 2019, 1:55 pm

pickles wrote:
October 9, 2019, 11:15 am
On the unrelated point, I wonder if our defence would have been more organised if CNK had stayed on and if we would have stopped the last try but it's hard to know. He had given absolutely everything and was a potential liability out there given how fatigued he was.
Ive had a few thoughts about that myself too
He was so good all year long about communicating to the line where the gaps were. I dont know if he could have stopped that try, but i have thought about it
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Re: Will next year be different to 2016

Post by Azza » October 9, 2019, 4:07 pm

With a full pre-season hoping CNK is even better next year. His development this year was astounding. Thought the GF was one of this best games.

Re G Williams, we may well go backwards at first with a new halves combo. The Roosters did in 2018 for half a season with Cronk. However, thereafter I'd be hoping we start to click towards the latter end of the season.

We're pretty strong across the park it would seem, however I agree we need to look at the pace in our backline. It's lacking a bit.

I expect Guler to play more minutes too, and Lui less. His ceiling is a lot higher.

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