Is this last straw for anyone?

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cholztrad
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Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by cholztrad » October 8, 2019, 9:00 am

Before the game I was chatting to my cousin and said the Refs better not * us!

Just trying to compute everything the last couple days and i'm still fuming, I've always felt the Raiders seem to get the rough end of the stick more often then not and to have what happened is sickening. For a long time in my two things have been clear, the refs aren't up to par and there's too many rules that can be interpreted / perceived to suit a particular narrative which lends itself to the refs not being up to par.

Flat balls being called either way, knock ons in the ruck being called a penalty, penalty in the ruck being called a knock on, slapping someone one week gets you sent off but another week is fine, Shepard plays are up to interpretation and hardly ever get called in general play but get called a decent amount of time post try, trainers being allowed to hang out on the field and if they get in the way it can suit their team, kicker get tackled and held on for way too long ever game and the NRL stays quiet on it, **** refs changing their mind seconds after a call, players diving low and head first into tackles and getting a penalty because they headbutted some blokes fist... what happened to the refs call is final? with 3 refs this doesn't seem to be true now, should players be told and coached that the refs call is no longer final? well it's not as evident now, which other sport is a ref allowed to change his call mid play?

I've been getting turned off the sport and watching less and less over the last 5 years, my post count here would reflect that. I watched less and less NRL (never missed a Raiders game) as I grew tired of seeing rules differing from week to week and teams looking to exploit the rules benefit from the rules. Look at Manly vs us this year, they won by being grubby not skilful... Sam Burgers had 5 penalties in a row against us and didn't even get a warning. Melbourne always seems to be able to lay on us for an exaggerated amount of time, especially early in the set and get away with it. The spirit of the game in my mind is dead and the better teams are the teams that can exploit the refs. I've been telling friends for a long time, players should get acting coaches because these refs are easily influenced.

The ball hits Sias head and it looks like we are either going to score or have great possession as Elliot Whitehead was closest to the ball and on the run but it then hits a trainer for the other team which impacted our opportunity but with the lack of insight from the NRL and not seeing this as a potential issue their outdated rule in this regarded bit us, I'm fairly sure we will hear a change of that rule soon. On a side note when it hit Sias head could that have been considered a charge down? and in turn the ball even by the rules should have been ours? There's too much ambiguity in this sport, too much exploiting of the rules by clubs and not enough the refs are doing about it. How many times do we see a penalty not for a high shot but for a player staying down? This is the kind of sport where it pays off to be a grub, there's not much downside besides a slower play the ball for being a grub and playing dead after a clip around the neck, in the past players were told to play hard and fast, in this era that doesn't lend well to victory as being a soft bitch allows time for the PR infested video ref to intervene and tell the ref to penalize where if the person that got clipped had played to the spirit of the game they would not have gotten the penalty, unlike any other sport the momentum swings from these kind of calls are massive and teams are clearly exploiting the spirit of the game and they do so because the refs allow it.

..............Rant over
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Binners99 » October 8, 2019, 9:11 am

I can handle errors from Refs during the game. But when the bunker, touchie it sideline offical gets involved it make the refs look like amateur hour

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by hiriser » October 8, 2019, 9:13 am

There's too much money in the game now. Too much influence by betting agencies. Too much influence by news limited and ch9, too much influence by people like Uncle Nick.

You can say refs aren't up to par, but when it comes to following a particular narrative, they usually achieve it 90% of the time so I'd say they are doing exactly what their bosses want them to.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Seiffert82 » October 8, 2019, 9:17 am

Fair rant!

Yes, we've had our fair share of controversy this year. From Cotric's suspension vs Trbojevic to the Grand Final howler.

There is little doubt the NRL will look at both the judiciary process and the rules in the offseason as a result. Too little, too late I guess.

Anyway, it sucks, but that's sport. Hopefully we'll be hungry and back next season to make amends.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by T_R » October 8, 2019, 9:17 am

Not sure it really works that way, does it? I think the enthusiasm for something like the NRL doesn't necessarily stop when this kind of thing happens (repeatedly), but it does diminish.
The balloon doesn't burst, but I think it deflates over time.
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by edwahu » October 8, 2019, 9:28 am

If you got through 2013 - 2015 you won't be going anywhere after we made a grand final.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Botman » October 8, 2019, 9:33 am

Na, as infuriating at that call was and the subsequent justification for it by the Refs boss, i dont believe that cost us the game.
The simple fact is, that call resulted in the ball being given to the roosters 90 metres away and we had a set line to defend it... it wasnt some open play scenario. The call and how it was handled was poor but that doesnt excuse us giving up the try, and nor does it excuse us failing to take advantage of the possession and period of dominance in the 2nd half

We had our chances. And i believe every single player on that field played well and did their best... and on that night, our best was not quite enough. Which is gutting and i feel so deflated by that result... but that's sport.

I dont view this as a game where officials cost us the game. We out played but were very marginally out executed (and im struggling to explain that in words but in my head that makes sense, i hope others sort of get what i mean when i say that) but an incredible football team. And we lost. And that **** sucks.
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Botman » October 8, 2019, 9:36 am

cholztrad wrote:
October 8, 2019, 9:00 am
On a side note when it hit Sias head could that have been considered a charge down? and in turn the ball even by the rules should have been ours? There's too much ambiguity in this sport, too much exploiting of the rules by clubs and not enough the refs are doing about it.
Just on this, im sure it's been posted here a few times but no.
As per the rule they invoked for this, which is if the ball hits an official, which i know some people have an issue with but i believe is the correct rule to invoke here, the attacking team is not determined by possession, it's by field position. So because the ball hit the trainer in the roosters attacking half, it is determined they are the "attacking team"
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Sossman » October 8, 2019, 9:43 am

PigRickman wrote:Na, as infuriating at that call was and the subsequent justification for it by the Refs boss, i dont believe that cost us the game.
The simple fact is, that call resulted in the ball being given to the roosters 90 metres away and we had a set line to defend it... it wasnt some open play scenario. The call and how it was handled was poor but that doesnt excuse us giving up the try, and nor does it excuse us failing to take advantage of the possession and period of dominance in the 2nd half

We had our chances. And i believe every single player on that field played well and did their best... and on that night, our best was not quite enough. Which is gutting and i feel so deflated by that result... but that's sport.

I dont view this as a game where officials cost us the game. We out played but were very marginally out executed (and im struggling to explain that in words but in my head that makes sense, i hope others sort of get what i mean when i say that) but an incredible football team. And we lost. And that **** sucks.
Can't agree more with this.

Roosters executed well by punishing our (albeit limited) mistakes.

I was dismissive of all the "big game experience" talk before the final as Gould spazzing, but I think we all saw how it helped the Roosters.



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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Botman » October 8, 2019, 9:46 am

I dont think it was that. We didnt lose this game on experience

The game was won and lost on two plays... Both clubs had plenty of chances but there was two genuinely great chances to score in the second, one for each club... for the Raiders, we just didnt quite execute it as well as we could have and the try went begging... for the roosters, it went like clockwork.

I dont think that's due to big game experience, i think that's just footy.
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by BadnMean » October 8, 2019, 9:47 am

I don't see how the ball freakishly hitting a trainer can be linked to the shadowy NRL conspiracies hinted in the early posts in this thread.

It's a completely dumb piece of ill-luck. But the actual application of the rule was correct. Unlucky for us- yes. Unfair- no. It's just a rule.

By all means it can create a debate about the trainers issue and it now has. Probably the best tweak would be- if your trainer touches the ball or an opposition player, a penalty is awarded in that location.

Now that will create a temptation to hit the trainer with the ball. Good. Then teams/trainers will be naturally pressured/reluctant to stop having trainers hanging around as on field coaches and it lessens the cause of the issue in the first place as well as being fairer.

But before the game, no one had even thought of that happening. Easts were not renowned as a team exploiting the trainer rule like some used to- they don't need to, that's why they bought Cronk.

It was a non issue, then a freak occurrence.

The six again is the issue. But we'll have to live with it.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Beejay » October 8, 2019, 9:51 am

I haven’t re watched the game, and I likely won’t.
But the more I cooled down the less I was upset about any perceived refereeing errors.
The biggest error of the game that changed the result was BJ not clean passing to Rapana.
That’s the truth.

Everything else was 50/50, a small error or just plain unlucky.
I know for one, Whitehead just dropped it when he recieved a penalty.
The 6 again was messy but ultimately they got the call right. What they should have done is stopped the clock and explained it so we could set our line due to the confusion. But really the Roosters has 90m to go, the fact they scored off that set highlighted the error even more, but is really on us.

I absolutely hate the ref bashing culture, and it is whipped up and promoted by the terrible TV commentary. They should ban it in someway.

I absolutely look forward to the new era we are in at the Raiders. Can’t wait for next year already.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Beejay » October 8, 2019, 9:55 am

Also as mentioned by others; the trainer issue. Do NOT change the rule or bring one in for this absolute freak occurrence. You WILL create another issue that won’t be foreseen until the next freaky thing happens.

What should happen is a massive crackdown on trainers being on the field. Why in the world was he even there 2 mins into the game, surely no one is thirsty yet. They need clear rules around when trainers are to be on, and it should be only when a clear injury, or breaks in play.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by TongueFTW » October 8, 2019, 10:02 am

I don't know why, but I am not disappointed at all with the Grand Final. We were 3.40 outsiders, and outplayed the best team in the modern era on the biggest stage of all with a relatively young team. We lost that game due to bad luck, but with 10 minutes left, we were the favourites to win that game, which is an extraordinary place to be given where we were at the end of last season (!). The NRL is not corrupt, just extremely incompetent - and that incompetence will work in our favour at some point going forward, it's the way it works.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Botman » October 8, 2019, 10:03 am

I think it’s both Beejay
It’s a crack down on when they can be on and simply say as you did, for injuries and when the ball is not in play

By rule then it’s extremely unlikely for this to occur again
But also if it does, like if a trainer is on the field attending to an injured player, and the ball strikes them, then you can’t just allow that team to ever gain advantage from that... be it a scrum feed or penalty to the other team, it can’t ever be that a teams trainer interferes with the game and that team gains an advantage from it
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by luke » October 8, 2019, 10:14 am

No. It's not for me.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by bonehead » October 8, 2019, 10:24 am

hell no
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by christoraider » October 8, 2019, 10:24 am

We really need to move on . Whilst the refs are terrible we are turning into victims and that’s terrible . We had our chances and didn’t take them . We had a super season , I’ll focus on that .


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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Dr Zaius » October 8, 2019, 10:27 am

Meh.

We had our chance, we didn't take it. They did and they won. There was an element of luck in there with the trainer situation, but what can you do. I don't think that we need to be angry about the 6 again call, plenty of other people are angry for us.
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by rayden83 » October 8, 2019, 10:29 am

Too much focus on the refs. Tight contents like the gf will always come down to refs discretion , one way or the other. I think there’s a cognitive bias in fans to only perceive bias when it’s happening to their own team and ignore it when their own team gets the rub of the green. Don’t get me wrong, both ref decisions were atrocious and influenced the contest, but you cannot argue that they cost us the game because we only scored one try all match. Had we got that scrum and six again no one knows what would’ve happened, maybe we score but the statistical probability is we don’t.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by 1992 » October 8, 2019, 10:43 am

Once the 2020 draw comes out and all the "toughest ever pre-seaon" talk begins we will all be back here.

If we finish 10th again..it might be the last straw for me.
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by pickles » October 8, 2019, 10:48 am

I’m in the we had our chances and didn’t take them camp. It was an epic game and it came down to a pass that didn’t stick for us. That’s footy move on.

Our defence has been fantastic this year but we need our attack to improve to be a real threat. That will come as the combinations we have started to develop this year go to the next level.

There is so much upside to this team I can’t not be excited about the future!

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Dr Zaius » October 8, 2019, 10:55 am

If we can hold onto our defensive mindset we will be amongst it next year.

A fully fit Leipana may have got us over the line. Hopefully Georgey Boi provides us with the structure and creativity in attack that we are lacking (without leaving a gaping hole in the defence).
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by woppadingo » October 8, 2019, 11:03 am

We had a great season.
Grand finalists.
Outplayed them for the majority of the game.
Became the peoples team.
Gained respect.
Future looking bright.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by cholztrad » October 8, 2019, 11:06 am

BadnMean wrote:
October 8, 2019, 9:47 am
I don't see how the ball freakishly hitting a trainer can be linked to the shadowy NRL conspiracies hinted in the early posts in this thread.

It's a completely dumb piece of ill-luck. But the actual application of the rule was correct. Unlucky for us- yes. Unfair- no. It's just a rule.
I don't point that to a conspiracy but more towards failure to identify these issues before they arise, before Cameron Smith was passing the ball the ball into players heads to milk a penalty it was an issue as it was slowly creeping up into the game, it took Melbourne milking this rule for them to change it. Issues should be identified before they happen rather then looked to resolved after they happen (as say this as I've had 5+ years experience writing processes) like Alfie was hanging out in the defensive line 10+ years ago, how could they not identify that it's possible the ball will one day hit a trainer and if they did they clearly got the rule wrong. What's now stopping one of these guys from purposely standing in bad positions if they don't change the rule?
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by gergreg » October 8, 2019, 11:07 am

I said it in the gameday thread but we kick a field goal with 20 to go we win the game. We had so many opportunities to stick our noses in front which would have been a massive psychological advantage.

I can understand the players going for that big play to win but would have been better hitting the lead and then kicking to the corners and defend.

Ultimately we should be a better side next year.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by rayden83 » October 8, 2019, 11:13 am

I think the whole refereeing system needs an overhaul, there’s simply too many rule and regulation these days. Imo refs should be given free reign to adjudicate a game how they see fit, rather that being held hostage by an obsolete rule book. For example with the first scrum incident referees should have the discretion to apply common sense to the situation and award either scrum or penalty to the Raiders. With regards to the six again incident the referee should NOT be allowed to change their mind, but a better decision than awarding a turn over would’ve been to grant the Raiders another tackle in which to complete their set. I realise this potentially opens up a whole new can of worms however the rule book is a static document which cannot accurately capture the nuances of a game that’s played in a dynamic fashion.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by edwahu » October 8, 2019, 11:17 am

Honestly the call doesn't phase me that much and I think most of the backlash against it from the League community in general is more about the advantages the Roosters already have. Same as when you see #PenaltyBroncos come out.

The issue with the player market is still a massive one for me. We came up with the best scouting in 20 years to get to the point we did but unless it get's addressed I am not sure how sustainable our success will be.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Peter » October 8, 2019, 11:27 am

Anthony Mundine did it in ‘99 to cost the Dragons the grand final.

BJ Leilua did it which cost us a guaranteed try.

He was also slow to get to marker, Rapana was defending at centre and Sezer on the wing. Our line was disorganised and Keary and Latrell capitalised. There was no overlap there just great execution by some pretty impressive players.

The ref bashing has to stop.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Peter » October 8, 2019, 11:31 am

edwahu wrote:
October 8, 2019, 11:17 am
Honestly the call doesn't phase me that much and I think most of the backlash against it from the League community in general is more about the advantages the Roosters already have. Same as when you see #PenaltyBroncos come out.

The issue with the player market is still a massive one for me. We came up with the best scouting in 20 years to get to the point we did but unless it get's addressed I am not sure how sustainable our success will be.
None of us here will ever know what their salary cap looks like. But they have a pretty big advantage when players like Mitchell are happy to stay there for $300-400k less than what other clubs would have to offer him to leave. If every player in that team stayed for 10% less than their value because they love the lifestyle, good management, coaches etc, they easily have $1-1.5m ‘extra’ in their cap.

Not sure what the NRL can do about that.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by yeh raiders » October 8, 2019, 11:55 am

I can't blame BJ for Sezer not being able to mark up 1-1 on a very simple play. Sezer was simply defending no one, which will always cost you at this level.

The pass BJ didn't throw to Rapana, was his only blemish in an otherwise magnificent performance.

As for "last straw", I'd hope people who are still fans through the embarrassments we've had over the last 2 decades, would be upbeat about this team moving forward given what we achieved this season. Bring on 2020

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by PerthRaider86 » October 8, 2019, 12:07 pm

It came down to BJ not trying to get back into the line and laying all over the ruck. Also bateman trying to make tackles at the start of that set instead of defending out wide like he is meant to. If BJ and Bateman were out there properly Toupu would of not gotten through. Also all BJ had to do was early pass to rapana and he was in to score.... but BJ was only thinking about one thing...


2 BJ lapses in judgement cost us the game, Just like Edrick Lee dropping the ball against the storm in 2016
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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by afgtnk » October 8, 2019, 12:50 pm

It's not, no.

The refs didn't rob us of the game. We had the majority of the ball and more than enough chances, but we didn't take them. It's disappointing that we're taking the easy option of blaming the officials, instead of looking inward and asking how we can be better. There are plenty of areas in which we can improve in.

We need to harness these feelings as supporters and back the team even harder next year.

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Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by Turbo_Raider » October 8, 2019, 1:06 pm

afgtnk wrote:
October 8, 2019, 12:50 pm
It's not, no.

The refs didn't rob us of the game. We had the majority of the ball and more than enough chances, but we didn't take them. It's disappointing that we're taking the easy option of blaming the officials, instead of looking inward and asking how we can be better. There are plenty of areas in which we can improve in.

We need to harness these feelings as supporters and back the team even harder next year.
Absolutely hit the nail on the head afg!

I hope the club shows more resilience and focus on our own shorftalls than some of our fans have after the game... it's such a cop out to blame this one one incident. Classic blame game mentality.

You could see it plain as day (if you took your green glasses off) at the ground during the 10 minute period with Cronk off the field. That was where the match slipped out of our hands and into the Roosters.. we started breaking down physically and mentally after not making a dent in that stretch. Their defence was just immense and we kept trying to go through the middle and not exploit where the gaps actually were...

Injuries pending, we have every hope to bounce back hard in 2020 if Ricky and co. can continue to show the resilience they have throughout this year. Never been so proud to be a Raiders fan as I am today in my 23 years of following them!

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Present: Elliot Whitehead
Location: Sydney

Re: Is this last straw for anyone?

Post by zim » October 8, 2019, 1:13 pm

woppadingo wrote:
October 8, 2019, 11:03 am
We had a great season.
Grand finalists.
Outplayed them for the majority of the game.
Became the peoples team.
Gained respect.
Future looking bright.
Put me down for one of these.

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