One on one steals

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Re: One on one steals

Post by yeh raiders » August 15, 2019, 9:03 am

PigRickman wrote:
August 15, 2019, 8:37 am
As an aside to this, do we even know how many of the strips this year have been the drop off strips?
I would guess, and it would just be a guess, that of the 70-80 strips this year, less than 15 of them would be those ones. The vast majority are just clean, straight up one on ones.
yeh raiders wrote:
August 14, 2019, 10:45 pm
What ? Like there’s a ball control epidemic going on! Christ ! :lol:
Do you watch games? How many times a game do you see a guy just loose possession of the footy because there is a hand around the football. The code had spent 2 decades devaluing ball security, where basically before this rule change, if you drop the ball and there is even a hand near the footy, regardless of whether someone was playing at it, it was a penalty. They've been bailing out poor ball security as a rule since the turn of the century.

And it still happens a bit this year, but been curtailed considerable. The referees are happy to call "loose carry" now.
Ball security matters, it's one of the first things they teach you as a young guy.

If a player has the football, and wants to retain possession, there is no reason why they cant, whether there is 1 person in the tackle or 50. The ball is only so big and it can really only be contested by one other player. So it's ball carrier vs one defender, and the ball carrier has the advantage of possession. If you lose the footy in the circumstance, well that's on you.
In the case of the hand-on-the-ball drops, your description of the way the refs are officiating it is spot on. However in terms of the frequency of them, I’m sure it looks a lot more prevalent when they replay the incident 4 times over.

I don’t think they’ve devalued ball security across the board, you only have to look at the number of clear knock-backs, which is are called knock-ons to see that.

Nor do I think it’s as straight forward and easy to keep hold of the ball, with the way in which defenders are gang tackling and wrestling the ball free this season.

In an era where wrestling techniques and ruck manipulation have become so important and defence is so strongly drilled, I’m happy to support offloads and quick POTB over the new stripping rule.

I’ll leave it there, let’s see how it pans out for the rest of the season.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by Matt » August 15, 2019, 9:25 am

yeh raiders wrote:
August 14, 2019, 10:45 pm
PigRickman wrote:
August 14, 2019, 10:26 pm
yeh raiders wrote:
August 14, 2019, 10:10 pm
“"I see where Trent's coming from, but I'm still very, very confident that if I had a football in my hand and I had three blokes trying to tackle me and they drop off, that I could hold it.” - P.Sterling

Gee I’d love to see him test that theory :lol:
The roosters got stripped 4 times in our game on the weekend.
FOUR TIMES!

and then when the game was on the line and they needed to retain possesion, and the Raiders came at them to strip them, they marched us up feild 70 damn metres and iced the game. Explain to me how roosters managed to avoid being stripped of the footy when the games was on the line given they'd be exposed in that very same game as being lax about ball control?

Or dont, and ill answer.
They didnt give a **** about ball control and got their pockets pinched, and as soon as they gave a **** about ball control they retained poessesion and there was nothing we could to relieve them of it.

Isnt it about time we made offensive players give a **** about ball control
What ? Like there’s a ball control epidemic going on! Christ ! :lol:

We couldn’t manipulate the tackle for a strip in 4 or 5 attempts so that must constitute a significant shift in the Roosters ball control .. righto. If they were genuinely locking down the hatches, they wouldn’t have rolled us for 60 metres that set, essentially taking away any real chance of a raiders win.

Had we defended properly and put them under pressure, we would have actually pinned them down their end.

I think the vast majority of NRL players have very good ball control, only exceptions really being the Burgess brothers who are basically at lesbian level in that regard.

Contests for the ball, I understand where that comes from and I get it, inspite of my belief that if you relinquish possession through an error, you don’t deserve a roll of the dice or lottery to get it right back (scrum rake, line-out, short drop outs).
You might wanna check the tape Yeh Raiders, they rolled down field because we continuously dropped off tackles to be 1 on 1 trying to strip the ball. We weren't concerned about meters conceded, we needed the ball. With the fitness and strength work these guys do, 1 on 1 isnt enough to stop people if you tackle high, even more so if your not trying to actually stop the blokes momentum, but rather attacking the ball.

Also, watch the ball carrier. Its 1 out, and both hands/ arms on the ball. They locked it down.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by Northern Raider » August 15, 2019, 11:52 am

At least when a team needs to win back possesion they now have an opportunity to do so of their own accord, rather than just waiting and hoping for an opposition error.
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Re: One on one steals

Post by Seiffert82 » August 15, 2019, 4:15 pm

bonehead wrote:
August 15, 2019, 7:40 am
Talk about deflecting, Trent Robinson has classic Sticky'd and everyone ran with it. His team got done with 4 clean strips, got away with stripping the ball off Rapana in the ruck, a 50-50 bomb contest leading to a try, a fluke pass try, 2 high shots with the game on the line, wrestling and hand on the ball in every play the ball all game, stalling tactics, tactical HIA but all anyone is talking about is the stripping rule.
If Sticky did this he'd be laughed out of the presser.
Thank goodness for the voice of reason.

That's exactly why this is being talked about. The rule change is long overdue. Robinson has perfected the art of deflection.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by gergreg » August 15, 2019, 7:15 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
bonehead wrote:
August 15, 2019, 7:40 am
Talk about deflecting, Trent Robinson has classic Sticky'd and everyone ran with it. His team got done with 4 clean strips, got away with stripping the ball off Rapana in the ruck, a 50-50 bomb contest leading to a try, a fluke pass try, 2 high shots with the game on the line, wrestling and hand on the ball in every play the ball all game, stalling tactics, tactical HIA but all anyone is talking about is the stripping rule.
If Sticky did this he'd be laughed out of the presser.
No mention of the latest innovation to slow down the ruck, which the Roosters and Storm have employed this year - 'Tangling'. Its the art of getting caught up with the tackled player and making it look like you're trying to get out of the way without actually doing it.
This isn't new. I remember commenting on Cam Smith and the Storm perfecting this tactic several years ago.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by greeneyed » August 16, 2019, 2:38 pm

Ricky Stuart makes clear he doesn't want rule for one-on-one steals changed

Raiders coach Ricky Stuart has made clear he doesn't want the rule for one-on-one steals changed.

"I thought it was a ridiculous comment last week about having to eliminate that rule," Stuart said. "When you can't do something it doesn't mean we have to get rid of it. Because we do it well, does that mean we've got to be punished for it?

Read more: https://www.espn.com/nrl/story/_/id/273 ... ng-tactics

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/ ... ucf36v24pz

VIDEO: Stuart: We shouldn't get punished for something we do well: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart has hit back at suggestions to abolish the one on one strip rule. : https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2019/08 ... e-do-well/

"It's in the rules so we just need to be aware of it tomorrow when the sneaky No.9 comes in and wraps his arms around the ball." - Storm coach Craig Bellamy wary of Josh Hodgson: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/08/16/bel ... iary-jibe/
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Re: One on one steals

Post by Northern Raider » August 16, 2019, 2:56 pm

Some more of Ricky's comments. Says it perfectly IMO.

"Because we do it well, does that mean we've got to be punished for it? Go and practice it, go and do a little bit more work on it like we do and you might get it right.

"We practice it, we know when to perform it and the boys do it very well. They shouldn't be punished for it just because some other people want to see it barred out of the game.

"It actually adds a bit of excitement to the game. Yeah OK, we get it right but we get strips against us and I haven't walked off the field and blown up and said we should get rid of the rule."
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Re: One on one steals

Post by GreenMachine » August 16, 2019, 2:56 pm

Seiffert82 wrote:
August 15, 2019, 4:15 pm
bonehead wrote:
August 15, 2019, 7:40 am
Talk about deflecting, Trent Robinson has classic Sticky'd and everyone ran with it. His team got done with 4 clean strips, got away with stripping the ball off Rapana in the ruck, a 50-50 bomb contest leading to a try, a fluke pass try, 2 high shots with the game on the line, wrestling and hand on the ball in every play the ball all game, stalling tactics, tactical HIA but all anyone is talking about is the stripping rule.
If Sticky did this he'd be laughed out of the presser.
Thank goodness for the voice of reason.

That's exactly why this is being talked about. The rule change is long overdue. Robinson has perfected the art of deflection.
1000%
Finally, people understand what was going on in the presser.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by Billy Walker » August 16, 2019, 5:14 pm

PigRickman wrote:
August 14, 2019, 7:05 am
gergreg wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:45 pm
PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:
August 13, 2019, 9:44 pm
greeneyed wrote:It isn't my problem if you're not astute enough to work out what Ricky was ultimately driving at.
Yeah, it's obviously two experienced coaches having a dig at the opposition's tactical strengths leading into the finals. Happens every single year about this time.

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Do you have an opinion on this rule?
I think we place too much pressure on officials. And i dont think that is what we should be doing
Is this a rule that does that?
Yes

GH reaction:
Stuart loves the rule!

:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao
C'mon, you're better than this. Ricky's playing a straight bat and then trying to deflect onto another area (stoppages) and not criticising the referees - in fact being sympathetic to the tough job they have - exactly as you... me... and other posters on this site have typed about - because of all the grey areas in the game.

Everybody who follows the game knows that we are currently the best at it. You know it, I know it, even blokes named Billy who know six shades of **** all about rugby league know it. So you can bet your **** that Trent Robinson and Ricky Stuart know it. Both coaches were very deliberate in how they discussed it. Trent highlighted it leading into the finals so it might be scrutinised or adjudicated slightly differently and Ricky is clever enough to not gloat about his players being the best at it (currently) so as not to draw attention to it.

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You guys are actually insane
Go and read the transcript again, Greg

He is asked directly about this specific rule. And he answers directly that it is a rule that makes life harder for the officials and he doesn’t believe we should be doing that.

The fact he tries (unsuccessfully mind you) to shift the conversation at the end of his response to some of the roosters tactics doesn’t invalid the direct response he gave about this rule

What is actually wrong with you people? Haha

Reporter: do you have an opinion on the stripping rule?
Stuart: we’ve got rules that place too much pressure on the officials
Reporter: is the stripping rule one of them
Stuart: yes. We’re making it too hard for the referees. We need to make it easier on them, not harder.

The GH: Stuart wasn’t talking about the stripping rule

:roflmao
Good grief
This aged poorly :roflmao

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Re: One on one steals

Post by gergreg » August 16, 2019, 5:41 pm

GreenMachine wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote:
August 15, 2019, 4:15 pm
bonehead wrote:
August 15, 2019, 7:40 am
Talk about deflecting, Trent Robinson has classic Sticky'd and everyone ran with it. His team got done with 4 clean strips, got away with stripping the ball off Rapana in the ruck, a 50-50 bomb contest leading to a try, a fluke pass try, 2 high shots with the game on the line, wrestling and hand on the ball in every play the ball all game, stalling tactics, tactical HIA but all anyone is talking about is the stripping rule.
If Sticky did this he'd be laughed out of the presser.
Thank goodness for the voice of reason.

That's exactly why this is being talked about. The rule change is long overdue. Robinson has perfected the art of deflection.
1000%
Finally, people understand what was going on in the presser.
By people you mean Pigman right? I think he is the only one with an agenda against people he thinks have an agenda.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by gangrenous » August 16, 2019, 6:13 pm

Given pigman has never admitted error in history this should be interesting...

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Re: One on one steals

Post by gergreg » August 16, 2019, 6:51 pm

gangrenous wrote:Given pigman has never admitted error in history this should be interesting...
Well not since the last time, anyway.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by gangrenous » August 16, 2019, 7:00 pm

When was the last time he admitted he was wrong?

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Re: One on one steals

Post by Billy Walker » August 16, 2019, 7:05 pm

gangrenous wrote:
August 16, 2019, 7:00 pm
When was the last time he admitted he was wrong?
The Cotric spear tackle thread - he made a big claim about it being in the top 10 worst tackles of all time or something and then got taken through a long a humourous process to be shown he was wrong before he folded and acknowledged he was wrong. It was uncomfortable for all involved :roflmao

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Re: One on one steals

Post by greeneyed » August 16, 2019, 8:57 pm

'Ridiculous': Canberra Raiders coach Ricky Stuart tells rivals to get better not bitter over one-one-one steal rule

Ricky Stuart has a message for other NRL coaches who object to the Canberra Raiders' efficiency at stripping the ball in tackles: Don't get bitter, get better.

"I thought it was a ridiculous comment last week about having to eliminate that rule. Just because you can't do something doesn't mean you have to get rid of it.

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/08/16/rid ... ing-rules/
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Re: One on one steals

Post by Billy Walker » August 16, 2019, 9:13 pm

I’m getting the sense Ricky is quite the fan of the one on one strip...

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Re: One on one steals

Post by Botman » August 17, 2019, 7:02 am

Matt wrote:
August 14, 2019, 9:53 am
J: Trent Robinson doesnt like that peel away stripping rule - the journo was mumbling more, but hard to hear - then says Robbo said we do it really well. Do you have an opinion?
RS: There are a number of rules in the game at the moment that are putting far too much pressure on the refs.

J: mumbled but, I think he said 'is this 1 of them?'

RS: Ummm, thats 1 of them because a lot of the time they have to guess. I think they got a lot of them right tonight. Ummm, whether the rule stays or goes there are so many more rules in the game they we are creating and putting too much pressure on the blokes in the middle. I feel sorry for them because theres a lot of the time they have to guess on rules. Ummmm, we need to make it easier for them, not harder.
That’s what the man said, as transcribed by Matt.
Direct response to a direct question.

Stuart, now with the aid of 5 days to actually plan what he says to those reporters instead of giving his thoughts post game, walks those comments back, which is great, and what he should do. This is a rule that should stay and the club should fight for it.

How often do you see a politician make comment on policy that is not the party line, only to see them walk it back and “clarify” their position days later?
No different here, just a coach getting back to the correct party line.

If you guys want to look at this and completely ignore what the man said to a direct question when he wasn’t given time to carefully plan his message, that’s your prerogative. But I’m certainly not going to
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One on one steals

Post by gangrenous » August 17, 2019, 7:59 am

Still missing the nuance there pig. He says “whether the rule stays or goes there are so many more rules”...

i.e. this rule is not what I want to focus on or discuss, and nor should the NRL as it’s part of a bigger problem. He couldn’t say “no, it’s not difficult for the refs to rule on I want the rule to stay” straight up as an answer because the Warriors were crippled by it a fortnight ago. But he moves away from talking about that rule exclusively as fast as he reasonably can without looking like a goose. He makes it clear that there’s an overall problem, changing one rule won’t fix that (so don’t change just the rule I like).

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Re: One on one steals

Post by Billy Walker » August 17, 2019, 8:12 am

Talk about digging deeper, your net is full on this one Piggy - there are too many balls for one man to pick up here! Take a deep breath, read back over a few pages, acknowledge you read this one wrong and get excited about game day. Otherwise you're just digging in quick sand 🤣

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Re: One on one steals

Post by gergreg » August 17, 2019, 8:39 am

Shut up Billy. Let the man dig.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by Billy Walker » August 17, 2019, 8:47 am

gergreg wrote:
August 17, 2019, 8:39 am
Shut up Billy. Let the man dig.

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Haha - I have visions of ‘Commical Ali’ the Iraq information minister trying to tell the world there was no war as there are tanks rolling in behind him on the live cross.

At some level you have to admire the effort in trying to defend an obviously indefensible position :roflmao

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Re: One on one steals

Post by gergreg » August 17, 2019, 9:18 am

Billy Walker wrote:
gergreg wrote:
August 17, 2019, 8:39 am
Shut up Billy. Let the man dig.

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Haha - I have visions of ‘Commical Ali’ the Iraq information minister trying to tell the world there was no war as there are tanks rolling in behind him on the live cross.

At some level you have to admire the effort in trying to defend an obviously indefensible position :roflmao
Shoosh now Billy.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by greeneyed » August 17, 2019, 9:30 am

If you listen to his press conference yesterday: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2019/08 ... e-do-well/

Ricky Stuart said he

“...never said we should get rid of the rule. All I’ve said was we should try and make not just that rule, but a number of rules, black or white for the referees to make decisions on. It’s very hard for refs out there at times, so we’ve got to take rules away where they’re guessing.” 7:25 min mark.
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Re: One on one steals

Post by Billy Walker » August 17, 2019, 9:46 am

:D

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Re: One on one steals

Post by Botman » August 17, 2019, 10:08 am

gangrenous wrote:
August 17, 2019, 7:59 am
Still missing the nuance there pig. He says “whether the rule stays or goes there are so many more rules”...

i.e. this rule is not what I want to focus on or discuss, and nor should the NRL as it’s part of a bigger problem. He couldn’t say “no, it’s not difficult for the refs to rule on I want the rule to stay” straight up as an answer because the Warriors were crippled by it a fortnight ago. But he moves away from talking about that rule exclusively as fast as he reasonably can without looking like a goose. He makes it clear that there’s an overall problem, changing one rule won’t fix that (so don’t change just the rule I like).
He answered a direct question, and then shifts the conversation to other parts of the game he’s unhappy with. But he was asked directly about that rule and answered it directly before the move, the reporter even confirms that this rule was one he was speaking to, and he confirms it was.

5 days later his messaging has changed to align more with what most of us think of the rule. He’s done the right thing by walking his previous comments back.
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Re: One on one steals

Post by Wiki Special » August 17, 2019, 10:21 am

bonehead wrote:
August 15, 2019, 7:40 am
Talk about deflecting, Trent Robinson has classic Sticky'd and everyone ran with it. His team got done with 4 clean strips, got away with stripping the ball off Rapana in the ruck, a 50-50 bomb contest leading to a try, a fluke pass try, 2 high shots with the game on the line, wrestling and hand on the ball in every play the ball all game, stalling tactics, tactical HIA but all anyone is talking about is the stripping rule.
If Sticky did this he'd be laughed out of the presser.
This x100.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by gangrenous » August 17, 2019, 10:44 am

PigRickman wrote:
gangrenous wrote:
August 17, 2019, 7:59 am
Still missing the nuance there pig. He says “whether the rule stays or goes there are so many more rules”...

i.e. this rule is not what I want to focus on or discuss, and nor should the NRL as it’s part of a bigger problem. He couldn’t say “no, it’s not difficult for the refs to rule on I want the rule to stay” straight up as an answer because the Warriors were crippled by it a fortnight ago. But he moves away from talking about that rule exclusively as fast as he reasonably can without looking like a goose. He makes it clear that there’s an overall problem, changing one rule won’t fix that (so don’t change just the rule I like).
He answered a direct question, and then shifts the conversation to other parts of the game he’s unhappy with. But he was asked directly about that rule and answered it directly before the move, the reporter even confirms that this rule was one he was speaking to, and he confirms it was.

5 days later his messaging has changed to align more with what most of us think of the rule. He’s done the right thing by walking his previous comments back.
I’ve explained it as clearly as I can. The journalists are trying to drag him into a discussion on that rule and every time he works away from it as quickly as he can.

You’re Robinson Crusoe here pigman.

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Re: One on one steals

Post by -PJ- » August 17, 2019, 11:10 am

I like the idea of the ball carrier holding on for dear life when he sees Hodgo involved in a tackle.

Their first thought is hold the ball super tight..not offload !!

We didn't invent the rule, but we have mastered it..

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Re: One on one steals

Post by Botman » August 17, 2019, 11:47 am

gangrenous wrote:
August 17, 2019, 10:44 am
PigRickman wrote:
gangrenous wrote:
August 17, 2019, 7:59 am
Still missing the nuance there pig. He says “whether the rule stays or goes there are so many more rules”...

i.e. this rule is not what I want to focus on or discuss, and nor should the NRL as it’s part of a bigger problem. He couldn’t say “no, it’s not difficult for the refs to rule on I want the rule to stay” straight up as an answer because the Warriors were crippled by it a fortnight ago. But he moves away from talking about that rule exclusively as fast as he reasonably can without looking like a goose. He makes it clear that there’s an overall problem, changing one rule won’t fix that (so don’t change just the rule I like).
He answered a direct question, and then shifts the conversation to other parts of the game he’s unhappy with. But he was asked directly about that rule and answered it directly before the move, the reporter even confirms that this rule was one he was speaking to, and he confirms it was.

5 days later his messaging has changed to align more with what most of us think of the rule. He’s done the right thing by walking his previous comments back.
I’ve explained it as clearly as I can. The journalists are trying to drag him into a discussion on that rule and every time he works away from it as quickly as he can.

You’re Robinson Crusoe here pigman.
Firstly, around here that wouldn’t concern me one iota. Wouldn’t be the first and won’t be the last

Secondly, apparently not Robinson Crusoe given the club has made a concerted effort to correct the message, including Stuart specifically addressing his response to that question.

The club obviously felt their messaging/RL politiking needed to be corrected. So here they are correcting it.

Not much more to be said.
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Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by gangrenous » August 17, 2019, 12:29 pm


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Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26210
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: One on one steals

Post by Botman » August 17, 2019, 12:52 pm

Don’t worry gangers
It’s the storm at 5:30pm today, I’m sure we’ll have something else to argue about this time tomorrow ;)
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

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gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10159
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by gangrenous » August 17, 2019, 1:16 pm

No we won’t!

Man 5:30 can’t come fast enough.

Pete Cash
Jason Croker
Posts: 4518
Joined: May 10, 2008, 7:21 pm
Favourite Player: Josh Papalii

Re: One on one steals

Post by Pete Cash » August 17, 2019, 7:41 pm

so how good are one on one strips

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Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26210
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: One on one steals

Post by Botman » August 17, 2019, 7:59 pm

What a clutch play from Hodgo

He was **** **** most of the night, but puts us in position to win the game when it mattered
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

Billy Walker
David Furner
Posts: 3153
Joined: April 29, 2017, 7:22 pm
Favourite Player: Ashley Gilbert

Re: One on one steals

Post by Billy Walker » August 17, 2019, 8:03 pm

PigRickman wrote:
August 17, 2019, 7:59 pm
What a clutch play from Hodgo

He was **** **** most of the night, but puts us in position to win the game when it mattered
Yeah he was rocks and diamonds but shined when it mattered. I didn’t see anything wrong with Lui’s steel he got pinged for unless held was called

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