Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Toviii » July 14, 2019, 8:12 pm

How long can we expect Cotric to be out for? Anyone remember any similar tackles recently?

I think the way he carries on with the tackle once the player is past the horizontal is going to add quite a few weeks.
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by -TW- » July 14, 2019, 8:14 pm

I'd imagine at least 4 weeks

Depends how much the send off is included in the punishment

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by BJ » July 14, 2019, 8:15 pm

If he’d had his hands between his legs it would be much worse.

Grade 2 for me. I think it happened too quick for Cotric to adjust.

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by PigRickman » July 14, 2019, 8:17 pm

BJ wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:15 pm
If he’d had his hands between his legs it would be much worse.

Grade 2 for me. I think it happened too quick for Cotric to adjust.
Yep, the lack of hands between the legs will help,unfortunately he really does drive him into the ground, which will hurt.

I dont know the charges or the priors/loading and how that'll imapct it, but to me that's a 6 to 8 week initial charge.
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Toviii » July 14, 2019, 8:17 pm

-TW- wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:14 pm
I'd imagine at least 4 weeks

Depends how much the send off is included in the punishment

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The send off shouldn't affect the charge should it?
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by LastRaider » July 14, 2019, 8:17 pm

I just watched the replay.

He lifted, continued on with the tackle and had another attempt when the player was on the ground.

It’s grade 3 if not 4. You can’t mount really any defence

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by LastRaider » July 14, 2019, 8:18 pm

I think also as it was a send off, the NRL will want to make an example of it, so penalty will be on the hard side no matter what

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Dr Zaius » July 14, 2019, 8:18 pm

At least he will be fresh for the finals

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Azza » July 14, 2019, 8:20 pm

Disappointing, but you can't argue with the send off or with a significant period of time out. Obviously it wasn't deliberate but you just can't have those tackles in the game.

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by LastRaider » July 14, 2019, 8:20 pm

Dr Zaius wrote:At least he will be fresh for the finals

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Northern Raider » July 14, 2019, 8:27 pm

Looks like they only have 3 grades.
https://www.nrl.com/operations/the-game/judiciary-code/

Means it's either grade 2 or 3. Being a 1 on 1 tackle and the player being unhurt he might get away with Grade 2. More likely a grade 3 though. 500 points will mean 4 weeks with early plea.
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by LastRaider » July 14, 2019, 8:30 pm

Northern Raider wrote:Looks like they only have 3 grades.
https://www.nrl.com/operations/the-game/judiciary-code/

Means it's either grade 2 or 3. Being a 1 on 1 tackle and the player being unhurt he might get away with Grade 2. More likely a grade 3 though. 500 points will mean 4 weeks with early plea.
Buzz Rothfield on Twitter called 2 - 4 weeks

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Northern Raider » July 14, 2019, 8:32 pm

LastRaider wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:30 pm
Northern Raider wrote:Looks like they only have 3 grades.
https://www.nrl.com/operations/the-game/judiciary-code/

Means it's either grade 2 or 3. Being a 1 on 1 tackle and the player being unhurt he might get away with Grade 2. More likely a grade 3 though. 500 points will mean 4 weeks with early plea.
Buzz Rothfield on Twitter called 2 - 4 weeks
Assuming guilty plea it will be 2 or 4 weeks for grade 2 and 3 respectively.
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by afgtnk » July 14, 2019, 8:32 pm

Someone who knows the rules better than I do help out here please. What is the consideration for mistake as opposed to intentional?

Yes, it looks bad because he's driven him into the ground. But looking at the mechanics of the tackle, there is no way I can see there being any intent or malice into it.

To me, going by what damage it could have caused is highly subjective and brings out multiple shades of grey, therefore cannot be the marker used.

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by PigRickman » July 14, 2019, 8:37 pm

afgtnk wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:32 pm
Someone who knows the rules better than I do help out here please. What is the consideration for mistake as opposed to intentional?

Yes, it looks bad because he's driven him into the ground. But looking at the mechanics of the tackle, there is no way I can see there being any intent or malice into it.

To me, going by what damage it could have caused it highly subjective and brings out multiple shades of grey, therefore cannot be the marker used.
The best answer, as far as ive seen with the judicary is, it's a lottery. I agree, there is no malice or intent but the driving is a problem. We'll see where it lands i guess and hope we come on the right side of the coin flip
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Northern Raider » July 14, 2019, 8:38 pm

afgtnk wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:32 pm
Someone who knows the rules better than I do help out here please. What is the consideration for mistake as opposed to intentional?

Yes, it looks bad because he's driven him into the ground. But looking at the mechanics of the tackle, there is no way I can see there being any intent or malice into it.

To me, going by what damage it could have caused is highly subjective and brings out multiple shades of grey, therefore cannot be the marker used.
You're asking us to understand how the MRC thinks. Anybody who claims they can is lying. :lol:
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by bonehead » July 14, 2019, 8:41 pm

2 weeks, clumsy no malice player unhurt
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Northern Raider » July 14, 2019, 8:42 pm

bonehead wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:41 pm
2 weeks, clumsy no malice player unhurt
In normal circumstances yes. In this case they may come down harder to justify the send off.
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by -TW- » July 14, 2019, 8:49 pm

afgtnk wrote:Someone who knows the rules better than I do help out here please. What is the consideration for mistake as opposed to intentional?

Yes, it looks bad because he's driven him into the ground. But looking at the mechanics of the tackle, there is no way I can see there being any intent or malice into it.

To me, going by what damage it could have caused is highly subjective and brings out multiple shades of grey, therefore cannot be the marker used.
No idea, but unlike high tackles there's only one category of dangerous throw

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by afgtnk » July 14, 2019, 8:51 pm

PigRickman wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:37 pm
afgtnk wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:32 pm
Someone who knows the rules better than I do help out here please. What is the consideration for mistake as opposed to intentional?

Yes, it looks bad because he's driven him into the ground. But looking at the mechanics of the tackle, there is no way I can see there being any intent or malice into it.

To me, going by what damage it could have caused it highly subjective and brings out multiple shades of grey, therefore cannot be the marker used.
The best answer, as far as ive seen with the judicary is, it's a lottery. I agree, there is no malice or intent but the driving is a problem. We'll see where it lands i guess and hope we come on the right side of the coin flip
To me the driving comes as a result of his intent, which is to drive Lafai onto his back. Because of his body position and Lafai stepping back on the inside, he can't muster enough strength to do so which sees his arms slide lower and subsequently make it dangerous.

Although I admit my upkeep of RL's reguarly changing rules isn't great these days, I thought send-offs and more severe punishments reserved for when a defender picks someone up lower on the legs fom the outset, with the intention to drive them head first thus made clear.

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Lui_Bon » July 14, 2019, 8:53 pm

PigRickman wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:37 pm
afgtnk wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:32 pm
Someone who knows the rules better than I do help out here please. What is the consideration for mistake as opposed to intentional?

Yes, it looks bad because he's driven him into the ground. But looking at the mechanics of the tackle, there is no way I can see there being any intent or malice into it.

To me, going by what damage it could have caused it highly subjective and brings out multiple shades of grey, therefore cannot be the marker used.
The best answer, as far as ive seen with the judicary is, it's a lottery. I agree, there is no malice or intent but the driving is a problem. We'll see where it lands i guess and hope we come on the right side of the coin flip
I'd have said a grade one, hands around both legs, tackled player was in motion, I fail to see any intentional driving, send off already a punishment - guilty plea 100 points with 25 % discount. And anyone thinking Klein is somehow a legitimate arbiter, take a long hard look at yourself - he sent Cotric off because Ashley knows he's an inch away from being sacked as a first grade ref for his inability to see the blindingly obvious despite all the hi tech the bunker can provide...
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » July 14, 2019, 8:53 pm

2 weeks, plus 4 weeks Raiders loading


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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Lui_Bon » July 14, 2019, 8:54 pm

-TW- wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:49 pm
afgtnk wrote:Someone who knows the rules better than I do help out here please. What is the consideration for mistake as opposed to intentional?

Yes, it looks bad because he's driven him into the ground. But looking at the mechanics of the tackle, there is no way I can see there being any intent or malice into it.

To me, going by what damage it could have caused is highly subjective and brings out multiple shades of grey, therefore cannot be the marker used.
No idea, but unlike high tackles there's only one category of dangerous throw

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Rick » July 14, 2019, 8:54 pm

Kris went off injured today too yeah?


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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by PigRickman » July 14, 2019, 8:57 pm

afgtnk wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:51 pm
PigRickman wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:37 pm
afgtnk wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:32 pm
Someone who knows the rules better than I do help out here please. What is the consideration for mistake as opposed to intentional?

Yes, it looks bad because he's driven him into the ground. But looking at the mechanics of the tackle, there is no way I can see there being any intent or malice into it.

To me, going by what damage it could have caused it highly subjective and brings out multiple shades of grey, therefore cannot be the marker used.
The best answer, as far as ive seen with the judicary is, it's a lottery. I agree, there is no malice or intent but the driving is a problem. We'll see where it lands i guess and hope we come on the right side of the coin flip
To me the driving comes as a result of his intent, which is to drive Lafai onto his back. Because of his body position and Lafai stepping back on the inside, he can't muster enough strength to do so which sees his arms slide lower and subsequently make it dangerous.

Although I admit my upkeep of RL's reguarly changing rules isn't great these days, I thought send-offs and more severe punishments reserved for when a defender picks someone up lower on the legs fom the outset, with the intention to drive them head first thus made clear.
Yeah, i think Cotric will referred directly to the Judicary and that will be the rough argument they make. They'll argue Cotric's actions were safe and it's just an unfortunate situation of circumstance... we'll see how it goes. As i said, that judicary situation feels like a genuine lottery and a lot might come down to how the media cover it if we're being honest.

I'll be stoked if he gets less than 6 weeks.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

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Matt wrote:
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Northern Raider » July 14, 2019, 9:00 pm

Would be incredibly harsh to refer that straight to the judiciary. Basically saying it's beyond the highest grading.
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Rickmando » July 14, 2019, 9:02 pm

Regardless of the punishment, I’d imagine the club won’t dispute it. To be honest, they shouldn’t! It would be a bad look and they know it. They’re taking this one on the chin.

Whilst not appearing to be intentional, it’s a really bad tackle, and one that the game has had recent negative press from (McKinnon). A harsh suspension should not surprise anyone.

Ideally you’d never see another spear tackle in the game ever again - the consequences can be sickening. The send off was fair, and the suspension will be fair. We should acknowledge and move on.

And I’d be shocked if Cotric was anything other than completely remorseful. Hopefully the club get around him and we see him back to his best on the park before finals.

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by BadnMean » July 14, 2019, 9:04 pm

You guys are crazy. I see that tackle penalised every couple of weeks. The hoopla around the send off is something only the Raiders r other punching bag team would cop- and tinfoil hats off, records bear this out with send offs and binnings.

8 weeks for a standard lifted tackle gone wrong, no hand between the legs, player puts their hand up to shield? I've watched Hodgo alone cop 3 of those this year with no long suspensions for it. Why are you so sure Cotric should cop it? Crazy.

2 weeks is plenty. I'd prefer to fight if it's longer than that and just sit thr judiciary down to a 5 minute montage of tackles this season alone that have had NO SUSPENSION. Let alone also a send off.

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by PigRickman » July 14, 2019, 9:05 pm

BadnMean wrote:
July 14, 2019, 9:04 pm
You guys are crazy. I see that tackle penalised every couple of weeks. The hoopla around the send off is something only the Raiders r other punching bag team would cop- and tinfoil hats off, records bear this out with send offs and binnings.

8 weeks for a standard lifted tackle gone wrong, no hand between the legs, player puts their hand up to shield? I've watched Hodgo alone cop 3 of those this year with no long suspensions for it. Why are you so sure Cotric should cop it? Crazy.

2 weeks is plenty. I'd prefer to fight if it's longer than that and just sit thr judiciary down to a 5 minute montage of tackles this season alone that have had NO SUSPENSION. Let alone also a send off.
There is something crazy going on here.
(Spoiler alert, its you)
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Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by PigRickman » July 14, 2019, 9:06 pm

Rickmando wrote:
July 14, 2019, 9:02 pm
Regardless of the punishment, I’d imagine the club won’t dispute it. To be honest, they shouldn’t! It would be a bad look and they know it. They’re taking this one on the chin.
Yep, i think they'll take what ever is given to them if they have the opportunity to do so without a direct referral to the judicary.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by PigRickman » July 14, 2019, 9:07 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
July 14, 2019, 9:00 pm
Would be incredibly harsh to refer that straight to the judiciary. Basically saying it's beyond the highest grading.
This is a post McKinnon world. And it's the worst spear tackle we've seen since that IMO
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by -TW- » July 14, 2019, 9:10 pm

Lui_Bon wrote:
-TW- wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:49 pm
afgtnk wrote:Someone who knows the rules better than I do help out here please. What is the consideration for mistake as opposed to intentional?

Yes, it looks bad because he's driven him into the ground. But looking at the mechanics of the tackle, there is no way I can see there being any intent or malice into it.

To me, going by what damage it could have caused is highly subjective and brings out multiple shades of grey, therefore cannot be the marker used.
No idea, but unlike high tackles there's only one category of dangerous throw

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by FROG » July 14, 2019, 9:12 pm

I thought it looked far worse than it was. No way shouldve been sent off. For the record, no player has been sent off for a lifting tackle since 1995!

As has been said, he was trying to make a dominant 1 on 1 tackle, lafai stepped and it meant he caught him awkwardly. Pretty sure he has a clean record. Should get 2 weeks, but with the raiders loading, he'll prob get six

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Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by LastRaider » July 14, 2019, 9:16 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
bonehead wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:41 pm
2 weeks, clumsy no malice player unhurt
In normal circumstances yes. In this case they may come down harder to justify the send off.
I don’t think the player being hurt or unhurt should come into it. It’s needs to be judged on the risk to the player, intent and seriousness of the action.

BTW Stuart is blowing up in the presser apparently about being a send off.

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Re: Cotric and the Judiciary

Post by Northern Raider » July 14, 2019, 9:18 pm

LastRaider wrote:
July 14, 2019, 9:16 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
bonehead wrote:
July 14, 2019, 8:41 pm
2 weeks, clumsy no malice player unhurt
In normal circumstances yes. In this case they may come down harder to justify the send off.
I don’t think the player being hurt or unhurt should come into it. It’s needs to be judged on the risk to the player, intent and seriousness of the action
It should and it does. Like any crime, the result dictates the severity of the charge.
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