Current dummy half

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papabear
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Current dummy half

Post by papabear » June 8, 2019, 11:16 am

Last night was the best performance from both halves in green I can remember in a long long time.

Both halves played well, but they also got a touch more ball at better times and also played as if the attack relied upon them, not that they are just link men in the Hodgson show.

Keep also in mind, that they quality of passing from havili is about a 6 out of ten compared to the 9 you get from Hodgson.

My two reasons, when Hodgson is our Hooker he takes all the fast play the balls to play through him, this works for the first 80 metres of the field (tbh I agree with this strategy for the most part for this part of the field) but in the last 20 metres when defences switch on it is too predictable.

Other reason is, to me Hodgson (when he does go to the halves) goes to wighton proportionately a lot more then what we say last night and even last night I would have liked to seZer tough my ball.

To me this is the biggest improvement our side can make. When Hodgson comes back his skill level is far superior to havili / starling, and if he can get his decision making right / (Ricks game plan) we can be a threat for the premiership.

Here’s to hopeing

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by edwahu » June 8, 2019, 11:23 am

Couldn't you put this in your other thread?

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Current dummy half

Post by gangrenous » June 8, 2019, 11:49 am

papabear wrote: and even last night I would have liked to seZer tough my ball.
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Re: Current dummy half

Post by The Rickman » June 8, 2019, 11:59 am

God this forum is filled with **** idiots and cowards


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Current dummy half

Post by The Rickman » June 8, 2019, 11:59 am

gangrenous wrote:
papabear wrote: and even last night I would have liked to seZer tough my ball.
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Unfortunate autocorrect Image
Jesus, no need to be a prick, gangy. Obviously he meant to say “tongue”


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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Pete Cash » June 8, 2019, 12:43 pm

This agenda posting of an epic scale.

I actually thought we lacked a ton of creativity and big part of that was how slow the service was out of dummy half. We again struggled inside the attacking 20 imo.

The second half was especially flat in attack. Especially at the start of the second half when havili was back in at hooker.

EDIT

This makes me sound like I thought we played badly. I just don't see how anyone with a pair of eyes could think we wouldnt have done better with faster service out of dummy half. We still were directionless when we got to the attacking 20m and thats a specific complaint in OPs thread.... i dont get it at all

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by BadnMean » June 8, 2019, 12:47 pm

In general, going right a little bit more often would be ideal.

Now that we have Bateman, Cotric and Rapana out there the ball will find its way there more often no matter who the hooker is. Coach will mention it. Bateman will demand it, Rapa will demand it and Cotric should now be getting the idea that he is an origin rep, he SHOULD be demanding ball if it's not coming.

We went several sets (sometimes in a row) without our backs getting a single touch in the first 20 minutes last night. Hodgo would have been panned for that but it was mostly game plan and about 10% slips/clunkiness/ halves aborting the mission due to a charging defence in their face/thretening the intercept.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Billy Walker » June 8, 2019, 7:35 pm

I’d like to see Cotric get a lot more early ball. He hasn’t been brilliant on the wing this year but geez he’s looked dangerous with the limited touches he’s received in the centres. I think he could end up being anything at centre and we need to be getting him early ball. He is a big young lad!

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Northern Raider » June 8, 2019, 7:42 pm

I really like Havili's dummy half play last week. Opposite against Tigers. His service was terrible. I'll put that down to the wet conditions and give home benefit of the doubt. Hopefully bounces back next week.
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Re: Current dummy half

Post by -TW- » June 8, 2019, 7:55 pm

Can someone actually give me the point of this?

I read it 3 times and haven't come to a conclusion of what the hell the point was

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Billy Walker » June 8, 2019, 8:06 pm

-TW- wrote:
June 8, 2019, 7:55 pm
Can someone actually give me the point of this?

I read it 3 times and haven't come to a conclusion of what the hell the point was

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I think the suggestion is that our halves went better because Havilli gave them more ball albeit not to the quality Hodgo provides. I think the original poster wants Hodgo to adopt Havilli’s options out of dummy half to allow the halves to flourish.

Not agreeing or disagreeing just giving my interpretation on the post.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by -TW- » June 8, 2019, 8:29 pm

Billy Walker wrote:
-TW- wrote:
June 8, 2019, 7:55 pm
Can someone actually give me the point of this?

I read it 3 times and haven't come to a conclusion of what the hell the point was

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I think the suggestion is that our halves went better because Havilli gave them more ball albeit not to the quality Hodgo provides. I think the original poster wants Hodgo to adopt Havilli’s options out of dummy half to allow the halves to flourish.

Not agreeing or disagreeing just giving my interpretation on the post.
Thanks,

Tend to agree in principle, but Hodgo can create a lot of chances off his own bat.

I think we had this discussion in 2016, where Sezer and Austin fronted him as he took too much control, from there he picked his moments a lot better.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Billy Walker » June 8, 2019, 8:56 pm

We don’t seem to have many solid systems when we are deep in attack. Hodgo overplays the crash ball and the halves aren’t creating second man plays or getting repeat sets. We have scored some awesome tries the last few weeks but we can’t be relying on freak bounces or soccer skills. Jack looks very dangerous when he runs but keen to see us be a bit more systematic and creative in attack.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by papabear » June 9, 2019, 1:14 pm

Billy Walker wrote:
June 8, 2019, 8:06 pm
-TW- wrote:
June 8, 2019, 7:55 pm
Can someone actually give me the point of this?

I read it 3 times and haven't come to a conclusion of what the hell the point was

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I think the suggestion is that our halves went better because Havilli gave them more ball albeit not to the quality Hodgo provides. I think the original poster wants Hodgo to adopt Havilli’s options out of dummy half to allow the halves to flourish.

Not agreeing or disagreeing just giving my interpretation on the post.
What billy said

Perhaps I rambled a bit

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Old School Green » June 9, 2019, 1:27 pm

I think it’s clear Hodgo is our chief playmaker. When he is playing it’s no surprise that he appears to gel with Williams more than Sezer as Williams is more an organiser/distributor rather than a playmaker as such, which Sezer is. Again, no surprise that when Hodgo is not there we need a Sezer to create for the team. Wighton is an out and out left side running 5/8 who shouldn’t, and doesn’t, chief play-make.
Interesting call when Hodgo is back. Whether we revert to a Hodgo/Williams combo or whether Sezer is able to play a foil role for Hodgo successfully.
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Re: Current dummy half

Post by papabear » June 9, 2019, 8:00 pm

to me for us to be successful regardless of whether its williams or sezer out there, once we are in the red zone we have to shift the ball to where there is space as opposed to just playing off the front down the middle all the time.

That change has to come from hodgson. If it does imo the glory of our success goes to him, because he is the one who will get us rolling down field and keep defenders from putting numbers out on our dangermen clogging their space.

But if we dont do that effectively, short of our forwards stinking it up, the failure will lie with hodgo.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by KingDynamite » June 9, 2019, 9:27 pm

The Rickman wrote:God this forum is filled with **** idiots and cowards


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The cowards thing started as joke. But... these threads. These stupid, stupid threads are ruining the joke.
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Re: Current dummy half

Post by PigRickman » June 10, 2019, 7:39 am

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by nemesis » June 10, 2019, 10:52 am

Pete Cash wrote:
June 8, 2019, 12:43 pm
This agenda posting of an epic scale.

I actually thought we lacked a ton of creativity and big part of that was how slow the service was out of dummy half. We again struggled inside the attacking 20 imo.

The second half was especially flat in attack. Especially at the start of the second half when havili was back in at hooker.

EDIT

This makes me sound like I thought we played badly. I just don't see how anyone with a pair of eyes could think we wouldnt have done better with faster service out of dummy half. We still were directionless when we got to the attacking 20m and thats a specific complaint in OPs thread.... i dont get it at all
100%, i was at the game and this was easy to see.

we scored off some ass-e kicks, an intercept and a break where not many players were back yet this fool thinks our attack was much better without hodgo, crazy talk!.

it was our defence that set up this win
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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Seiffert82 » June 10, 2019, 3:13 pm

Hodgo needs to give the ball to our halves much more in the attacking 20 - not only because our real attacking strength is in the three-quarters, but also because the opposition is so used to him dominating the play that his short kicking game, nice little changes of direction with his tight forwards and his darts out of dummy half are now almost ineffectual as everyone expects it.

If he stopped overplaying his hand in the red zone I firmly believe our attack would be much better for it, and our halves would become a lot more decisive with the ball, rather than panic on the few occasions they get their hands on the thing.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Billy Walker » June 11, 2019, 8:32 pm

nemesis wrote:
June 10, 2019, 10:52 am
Pete Cash wrote:
June 8, 2019, 12:43 pm
This agenda posting of an epic scale.

I actually thought we lacked a ton of creativity and big part of that was how slow the service was out of dummy half. We again struggled inside the attacking 20 imo.

The second half was especially flat in attack. Especially at the start of the second half when havili was back in at hooker.

EDIT

This makes me sound like I thought we played badly. I just don't see how anyone with a pair of eyes could think we wouldnt have done better with faster service out of dummy half. We still were directionless when we got to the attacking 20m and thats a specific complaint in OPs thread.... i dont get it at all
100%, i was at the game and this was easy to see.

we scored off some ass-e kicks, an intercept and a break where not many players were back yet this fool thinks our attack was much better without hodgo, crazy talk!.

it was our defence that set up this win
What did you think of the pace of the attack when Starling was on? I liked the look of him and think he might put pressure on Havilli for the bench spot when Hodgo returns.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by -TW- » June 11, 2019, 8:38 pm

Billy Walker wrote:
nemesis wrote:
June 10, 2019, 10:52 am
Pete Cash wrote:
June 8, 2019, 12:43 pm
This agenda posting of an epic scale.

I actually thought we lacked a ton of creativity and big part of that was how slow the service was out of dummy half. We again struggled inside the attacking 20 imo.

The second half was especially flat in attack. Especially at the start of the second half when havili was back in at hooker.

EDIT

This makes me sound like I thought we played badly. I just don't see how anyone with a pair of eyes could think we wouldnt have done better with faster service out of dummy half. We still were directionless when we got to the attacking 20m and thats a specific complaint in OPs thread.... i dont get it at all
100%, i was at the game and this was easy to see.

we scored off some ass-e kicks, an intercept and a break where not many players were back yet this fool thinks our attack was much better without hodgo, crazy talk!.

it was our defence that set up this win
What did you think of the pace of the attack when Starling was on? I liked the look of him and think he might put pressure on Havilli for the bench spot when Hodgo returns.
Will he?

Havili covers hooker and lock, as is a damn good bench forward too. With Starling you're moving Hodgson to lock to cover him.

I think we're fine as is..

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by edwahu » June 11, 2019, 8:41 pm

The idea that the halves didn't get the ball in the 20 when Hodgo played is ridiculously overstated relative to other teams. Of the top sides we probably play the middle the least in the 20 outside of the Roosters.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Lui_Bon » June 11, 2019, 8:45 pm

Seiffert82 wrote:
June 10, 2019, 3:13 pm
Hodgo needs to give the ball to our halves much more in the attacking 20 - not only because our real attacking strength is in the three-quarters, but also because the opposition is so used to him dominating the play that his short kicking game, nice little changes of direction with his tight forwards and his darts out of dummy half are now almost ineffectual as everyone expects it.

If he stopped overplaying his hand in the red zone I firmly believe our attack would be much better for it, and our halves would become a lot more decisive with the ball, rather than panic on the few occasions they get their hands on the thing.
I agree utterly. However, is it because Hodgson is just doing his thing, or are the halves not basically shouting loud enough? I don't know.
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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Seiffert82 » June 11, 2019, 11:14 pm

Lui_Bon wrote:
June 11, 2019, 8:45 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:
June 10, 2019, 3:13 pm
Hodgo needs to give the ball to our halves much more in the attacking 20 - not only because our real attacking strength is in the three-quarters, but also because the opposition is so used to him dominating the play that his short kicking game, nice little changes of direction with his tight forwards and his darts out of dummy half are now almost ineffectual as everyone expects it.

If he stopped overplaying his hand in the red zone I firmly believe our attack would be much better for it, and our halves would become a lot more decisive with the ball, rather than panic on the few occasions they get their hands on the thing.
I agree utterly. However, is it because Hodgson is just doing his thing, or are the halves not basically shouting loud enough? I don't know.
I reckon it's totally on Hodgson. He's the one with the ball in his hands and its entirely up to him to determine what to do with it. I'm sure the halves are ready and willing to take the ball if it's given to them.

It's in his, and the team's, best interest for those attacking options to be mixed up a bit more. Cameron Smith doesn't dominate the ball in the same way Hodgson does. He trusts his halves to do their job and they are expected to execute.

It's honestly Hodgson's biggest downfall.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by BadnMean » June 11, 2019, 11:35 pm

edwahu wrote:
June 11, 2019, 8:41 pm
The idea that the halves didn't get the ball in the 20 when Hodgo played is ridiculously overstated relative to other teams. Of the top sides we probably play the middle the least in the 20 outside of the Roosters.
The foundation of this idea exploded when we were just the same as ever in the red zone vs the Tigers... Lots of ball there, not much cohesion. Most of our tries being a bit lucky or long range efforts.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Billy Walker » June 12, 2019, 8:28 am

-TW- wrote:
June 11, 2019, 8:38 pm
Billy Walker wrote:
nemesis wrote:
June 10, 2019, 10:52 am
Pete Cash wrote:
June 8, 2019, 12:43 pm
This agenda posting of an epic scale.

I actually thought we lacked a ton of creativity and big part of that was how slow the service was out of dummy half. We again struggled inside the attacking 20 imo.

The second half was especially flat in attack. Especially at the start of the second half when havili was back in at hooker.

EDIT

This makes me sound like I thought we played badly. I just don't see how anyone with a pair of eyes could think we wouldnt have done better with faster service out of dummy half. We still were directionless when we got to the attacking 20m and thats a specific complaint in OPs thread.... i dont get it at all
100%, i was at the game and this was easy to see.

we scored off some ass-e kicks, an intercept and a break where not many players were back yet this fool thinks our attack was much better without hodgo, crazy talk!.

it was our defence that set up this win
What did you think of the pace of the attack when Starling was on? I liked the look of him and think he might put pressure on Havilli for the bench spot when Hodgo returns.
Will he?

Havili covers hooker and lock, as is a damn good bench forward too. With Starling you're moving Hodgson to lock to cover him.

I think we're fine as is..

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Do we need that additional lock cover with the bench we run or might we be better off with pace out of dummy half against tiring forwards?

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Finchy » June 12, 2019, 10:19 am

nemesis wrote:
June 10, 2019, 10:52 am
Pete Cash wrote:
June 8, 2019, 12:43 pm
This agenda posting of an epic scale.

I actually thought we lacked a ton of creativity and big part of that was how slow the service was out of dummy half. We again struggled inside the attacking 20 imo.

The second half was especially flat in attack. Especially at the start of the second half when havili was back in at hooker.

EDIT

This makes me sound like I thought we played badly. I just don't see how anyone with a pair of eyes could think we wouldnt have done better with faster service out of dummy half. We still were directionless when we got to the attacking 20m and thats a specific complaint in OPs thread.... i dont get it at all
100%, i was at the game and this was easy to see.

we scored off some ass-e kicks, an intercept and a break where not many players were back yet this fool thinks our attack was much better without hodgo, crazy talk!.

it was our defence that set up this win
Ass-e? Arsey?

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Roger Kenworthy » June 12, 2019, 2:44 pm

Havili 97% tackle efficiency according to Fox Sports Lab. 2nd to Klemmer among defenders with more than 200 tackles. Would not drop.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Sid » June 12, 2019, 3:28 pm

It looked like in the Tigers game Starling came on at around the 37th minute, then didn't start the 2nd half, then came back later in the 2nd half.

if that's correct it seems like a weird use of interchange, even for Ricky

maybe he was there and I didn't see him?
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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Old School Green » June 12, 2019, 3:49 pm

Sid wrote:
June 12, 2019, 3:28 pm
It looked like in the Tigers game Starling came on at around the 37th minute, then didn't start the 2nd half, then came back later in the 2nd half.

if that's correct it seems like a weird use of interchange, even for Ricky

maybe he was there and I didn't see him?
I think that way Havili gets halftime break so so all up a 20+ min spell. Then, Starling comes on last 20 still fresh against tired forwards.
Seems like a good use of Starling (a 1 game rookie) I think?
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Re: Current dummy half

Post by edwahu » June 12, 2019, 4:00 pm

They have the players stint stats on NRL.com now. He played 27 minutes, a 6 minute spell up to half time and then the last 21 minutes. Pretty standard usage for a bench hooker, although interchanging at half time was a bit odd.

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by Billy Walker » June 12, 2019, 4:35 pm

edwahu wrote:
June 12, 2019, 4:00 pm
They have the players stint stats on NRL.com now. He played 27 minutes, a 6 minute spell up to half time and then the last 21 minutes. Pretty standard usage for a bench hooker, although interchanging at half time was a bit odd.
Yeah I thought it was odd he did a 6 min stint and didn’t return after halftime

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by papabear » June 14, 2019, 9:05 am

Well and truely ready for hodgson to return now after last nights performance.

My point still stands though, sezer and wighton look a lot more confident and aggressive out there as the lead play makers.

Havili, you are kidding me. 3 big big mistakes.

1 - He set up one of the sharks tries scored by the big forward, commentators blamed bateman but it was never batemans spot to be first and only contact, havili charged out and across the line leaving the whole for the big forward to go through, he stays in line there is no try there. He is often thought of as a middle forward replacement, that was garbage for a middle forward replacement.

2 - First time going down the short side to croker on the last, there were no numbers there, no halves, nothing on it was just a bad play.

3 - After sezer is tackled, we have the 4th and 5th to go, sezer lies down trying to milk a penalty after being whacked in the face. Havili has time to think about life love and the universe. I think good, this will give them time to go to jack for a play on the 4th and then back to sezer for a good last tackle play.

Play 4 - he goes to wighton who takes the line on, good.

Play 5 - he goes short side to whitehead. I almost broke my tv in a rage of bad dummy half play at this point. I can only think that maybe sezer was still hurt and not in position.

Honestly, our dummy half service absolutely enrages me sometimes. The sharks hooker on the other hand performed very well, with better halves but a worse performing pack / outside backs.

I havent seen enough of starling to judge him, but to be honest hes looked good thus far. I wouldnt have subbed him off, to me he appears a better defender then havili and since the cue was in the rack....

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Re: Current dummy half

Post by zim » June 14, 2019, 9:51 am

I think some of Havili's issue is the lack of full game fitness in the hooking role. We seem to be running an interchange strategy with him and Starling that keeps Havili on there until it's obvious he's tired then we bring Starling on. Some of that fatigue decision making gets tidied up if we're running the more usual 10mins either side of the half for Starling.
At first I wasn't keen on him at all but I think he's definitely proven he can be trusted to do the job.

My point is probably moot now as we shift back to Hodgo 80 at hooker for the Eels game.

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