Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by edwahu » June 11, 2019, 7:37 pm

gergreg wrote:
June 11, 2019, 7:19 pm
edwahu wrote:Here's the other angle of Young

https://streamable.com/7uc92
Are you able to also upload the most recent one from McGuire? I honestly think it's comparable.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by greeneyed » June 11, 2019, 7:53 pm

Paul Crawley on NRL 360 says the integrity of the MRC is “shot to pieces” and are applying double standards.
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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Coastalraider » June 11, 2019, 8:04 pm

edwahu wrote:
June 11, 2019, 7:37 pm
gergreg wrote:
June 11, 2019, 7:19 pm
edwahu wrote:Here's the other angle of Young

https://streamable.com/7uc92
Are you able to also upload the most recent one from McGuire? I honestly think it's comparable.

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https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 0ddf339e27
From looking at the 2 incidents, I’d say the intent was comparable, but Young got a better dig.

Here’s the bit that really pisses me off - I HATE this kind of crap in the game. But if you are a young ‘hard man’ forward coming into grade, and rep players use this kind of tactic without any real sanction, why would you not use it? The example is set, and reaffirmed in both of the McGuire incidents.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Dr Zaius » June 11, 2019, 8:09 pm

Surely the NRL is taking the piss?
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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Wiki Special » June 11, 2019, 8:10 pm

The Walker one is definitely the lesser of the two McGuire incidents. The Munster one was deplorable and the equal of Young.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Wiki Special » June 11, 2019, 8:10 pm

greeneyed wrote:
June 11, 2019, 7:53 pm
Paul Crawley on NRL 360 says the integrity of the MRC is “shot to pieces” and are applying double standards.
He is absolutely correct.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by edwahu » June 11, 2019, 8:14 pm

Wiki Special wrote:
June 11, 2019, 8:10 pm
The Walker one is definitely the lesser of the two McGuire incidents. The Munster one was deplorable and the equal of Young.
Yeah, agree on this. They argued there is no footage but you see his finger in his eye.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by gergreg » June 11, 2019, 9:07 pm

Seems to be getting plenty of attention in the media and rightly so.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Seiffert82 » June 11, 2019, 11:16 pm

It's pretty indefensible.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by PigRickman » June 12, 2019, 8:15 am

Coastalraider wrote:
June 11, 2019, 8:04 pm
edwahu wrote:
June 11, 2019, 7:37 pm
gergreg wrote:
June 11, 2019, 7:19 pm
edwahu wrote:Here's the other angle of Young

https://streamable.com/7uc92
Are you able to also upload the most recent one from McGuire? I honestly think it's comparable.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 0ddf339e27
From looking at the 2 incidents, I’d say the intent was comparable, but Young got a better dig.

Here’s the bit that really pisses me off - I HATE this kind of crap in the game. But if you are a young ‘hard man’ forward coming into grade, and rep players use this kind of tactic without any real sanction, why would you not use it? The example is set, and reaffirmed in both of the McGuire incidents.
100%

This should should be suspensions on Young’s level
If not more
You have to get this **** out ASAP
Hard to do that when the MRC are offering up such wildly inconsistent gradings
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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Northern Raider » June 12, 2019, 10:09 am

Wiki Special wrote:
June 11, 2019, 8:10 pm
The Walker one is definitely the lesser of the two McGuire incidents. The Munster one was deplorable and the equal of Young.
Agree. Walker incident was definitely a lower grade than Young's. You could argue they got that one right. It's McGuire's earlier incident on Munster that was the problem. It was virtually identical to Young's incident yet it was 2 grades lower charge.

But what does the MRC do? Give McGuire a higher grade charge than is justified for the latest one because they got the earlier one wrong?
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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Coastalraider » June 12, 2019, 10:54 am

If a player comes in with a swinging arm/high shot, and knocks a bloke out, should he be charged greater than if he did exactly the same and the player was abel to play on?? Intent is the same, risk is the same, result is different.

Thats essentially the argument - I believe form watching those 2 incidents of Young vs McGuire#2 that the intent was the same, but Young 'found the hole' faster than McGuire. McGuire had a decent root around looking for it, making it look more like a face rub, but he was definitely looking for the eye, he just didnt find it as well.

What is mind boggling is that he is stupid enough to keep doing it - not only after his Munster incident, but within a short space of time after that was re-highlighted in comparison to the Young charge. What an absolute muppet.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by pickles » June 28, 2019, 12:19 pm

It will be interesting to see what Burgess cops for his effort last night. Referred straight to the judiciary so could be a very long suspension given his form.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by The Rickman » June 28, 2019, 12:22 pm

Coastalraider wrote:
June 12, 2019, 10:54 am
If a player comes in with a swinging arm/high shot, and knocks a bloke out, should he be charged greater than if he did exactly the same and the player was abel to play on?? Intent is the same, risk is the same, result is different.
I've always been of the belief that you absolutely should be suspended for longer based on the damage you cause your opponent.

Just like if I'm drink driving and I hit somebody in my car, if I accidentally kill somebody I'm in a LOT more trouble than if I just dent up their car, so too should you be suspended for longer if you cause a serious injury to another player.
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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Cranky Old Man » June 28, 2019, 2:58 pm

The charges should be broken down to their basic component parts. Swinging arm, gouge, raised elbow, lifting tackle etc all should have a basic minimum sentence and after that is determined a second discussion should be held around the physical effects of the foul play and its impact on the affected player and his/her club and an appropriate additional penalty imposed.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by The Rickman » June 28, 2019, 2:59 pm

Cranky Old Man wrote:
June 28, 2019, 2:58 pm
The charges should be broken down to their basic component parts. Swinging arm, gouge, raised elbow, lifting tackle etc all should have a basic minimum sentence and after that is determined a second discussion should be held around the physical effects of the foul play and its impact on the affected player and his/her club and an appropriate additional penalty imposed.
Yep, I agree with that 100%.

Spot on, as always, Cranky.
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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by edwahu » June 28, 2019, 3:42 pm

Cranky Old Man wrote:
June 28, 2019, 2:58 pm
The charges should be broken down to their basic component parts. Swinging arm, gouge, raised elbow, lifting tackle etc all should have a basic minimum sentence and after that is determined a second discussion should be held around the physical effects of the foul play and its impact on the affected player and his/her club and an appropriate additional penalty imposed.
I think you still need a grading based on careless, reckless or intentional.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Cranky Old Man » June 28, 2019, 3:55 pm

G'day Edwahu. I see and acknowledge your point, and I certainly don't reject it, but I wonder whether it would be better to just grade them once, happened or didn't happen, as guesses as to intent are just that, guesses. The NRL judiciary has had a shaky reputation for judgement for decades and I think that the fewer options available to them to be subjected to pressure from press, clubs, vested interests the better.
Judge on the most basic of facts, happen / didn't happen, sentence on that plus priors for similar offences plus injurious effects.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Wiki Special » June 28, 2019, 4:36 pm

Yeah, I think intent and grading on careless, reckless, etc. should matter more than the injury sustained by the player. As an example, last year we played Penrith and during the game Rapana and Mansour (I think) were contesting a Panthers attacking kick towards the sideline. Rapana accidentally hit Mansour in the face with his elbow causing bleeding. He was penalised (which was ridiculous). If Mansour ended up with a broken jaw and missed 6 months of football it would be ridiculous to suspend Rapana because of an accidental football injury. It is a collision sport, injuries will happen.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by The Rickman » June 28, 2019, 4:42 pm

If it's a penalty, then it's illegal play, if somebody ends up out for the season for it you should get suspended more harshly.

Conversely, if it's not a penalty, it's not illegal play, it's an accident, if someone gets injured it's just bad luck, there shouldn't be a suspension no matter the severity of the injury. Accidents happen, but if you cause them they're not accidents.
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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by RedRaider » June 29, 2019, 5:56 am

Agree with that Rickman. The Burgess on Farah incident was simply disgusting. I spoke with a bloke who has supported the Rabbitohs for more than 50 years and he wants him out for the season. I would go another step in the way the game is currently referee'd though. I'd get rid of the 'facial'. The game has removed the punch and the shoulder charge. I don't know of many league fans who like to see 'facials'. Immediate penalty for hands on the face. Do it again it is sin bin time. Do it a third time and 'your off'.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by The Rickman » June 29, 2019, 6:10 am

RedRaider wrote:Agree with that Rickman. The Burgess on Farah incident was simply disgusting. I spoke with a bloke who has supported the Rabbitohs for more than 50 years and he wants him out for the season. I would go another step in the way the game is currently referee'd though. I'd get rid of the 'facial'. The game has removed the punch and the shoulder charge. I don't know of many league fans who like to see 'facials'. Immediate penalty for hands on the face. Do it again it is sin bin time. Do it a third time and 'your off'.
I agree 100%, Red. There’s absolutely no reason at all to be touching another player’s face.

That’s the logical next step to cleaning up the game
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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Raidersteve » June 29, 2019, 6:11 am

The Rickman wrote:
June 28, 2019, 4:42 pm
If it's a penalty, then it's illegal play, if somebody ends up out for the season for it you should get suspended more harshly.

Conversely, if it's not a penalty, it's not illegal play, it's an accident, if someone gets injured it's just bad luck, there shouldn't be a suspension no matter the severity of the injury. Accidents happen, but if you cause them they're not accidents.
In theory but that is very reliant on the refs getting it right which isn't always the case. Sometimes players are penalised on suspicion because a player got injured.

If you look back at the Roosters game from early in the season the Raiders player was penalised for a crusher tackler because the attacking players put his head in a bad position trying to get a quick play of the ball and got injured. It was clearly accidental and rightfully didn't go to the judiciary despite being put on report.

Your black and white approach would have seen him suspended for something that was completely accidental and unavoidable.

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by Dr Zaius » June 29, 2019, 8:06 am

The Rickman wrote:
RedRaider wrote:Agree with that Rickman. The Burgess on Farah incident was simply disgusting. I spoke with a bloke who has supported the Rabbitohs for more than 50 years and he wants him out for the season. I would go another step in the way the game is currently referee'd though. I'd get rid of the 'facial'. The game has removed the punch and the shoulder charge. I don't know of many league fans who like to see 'facials'. Immediate penalty for hands on the face. Do it again it is sin bin time. Do it a third time and 'your off'.
I agree 100%, Red. There’s absolutely no reason at all to be touching another player’s face.

That’s the logical next step to cleaning up the game
I agree with this, but can you imagine the pissing and moaning about how the game has gotten soft?

Its interesting how actions have unexpected consequences. Players, particularly smaller players, are more inclined to be niggly little grubs these days, given that they are unlikely to have their nose rearranged for the effort. I'm not saying that we should bring back the biff, but it's exclusion has bought unexpected problems.
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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by simo » June 29, 2019, 9:42 am

Raidersteve wrote:
June 29, 2019, 6:11 am
The Rickman wrote:
June 28, 2019, 4:42 pm
If it's a penalty, then it's illegal play, if somebody ends up out for the season for it you should get suspended more harshly.

Conversely, if it's not a penalty, it's not illegal play, it's an accident, if someone gets injured it's just bad luck, there shouldn't be a suspension no matter the severity of the injury. Accidents happen, but if you cause them they're not accidents.
In theory but that is very reliant on the refs getting it right which isn't always the case. Sometimes players are penalised on suspicion because a player got injured.

If you look back at the Roosters game from early in the season the Raiders player was penalised for a crusher tackler because the attacking players put his head in a bad position trying to get a quick play of the ball and got injured. It was clearly accidental and rightfully didn't go to the judiciary despite being put on report.

Your black and white approach would have seen him suspended for something that was completely accidental and unavoidable.
This sounds like a discussion about the alex mckinnon tackle
Dont delete this GE

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Re: Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by raiderskater » June 29, 2019, 10:29 am

You know it's bad when even the Souths fans are saying they want him gone for the year.

Frankly I think it should be at least double Hudson's suspension, which would be 10 weeks.
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Canberra Raiders forward Hudson Young takes early plea, will miss five matches

Post by The Rickman » June 29, 2019, 4:25 pm

Raidersteve wrote:
The Rickman wrote:
June 28, 2019, 4:42 pm
If it's a penalty, then it's illegal play, if somebody ends up out for the season for it you should get suspended more harshly.

Conversely, if it's not a penalty, it's not illegal play, it's an accident, if someone gets injured it's just bad luck, there shouldn't be a suspension no matter the severity of the injury. Accidents happen, but if you cause them they're not accidents.
In theory but that is very reliant on the refs getting it right which isn't always the case. Sometimes players are penalised on suspicion because a player got injured.

If you look back at the Roosters game from early in the season the Raiders player was penalised for a crusher tackler because the attacking players put his head in a bad position trying to get a quick play of the ball and got injured. It was clearly accidental and rightfully didn't go to the judiciary despite being put on report.

Your black and white approach would have seen him suspended for something that was completely accidental and unavoidable.
Not true at all, as players can still be charged after the fact without the original penalty being blown

That’s what the match review committee and the judiciary are for

Whether the referee gets it right or wrong on the night is absolutely irrelevant to the point I was making. In fact all that affects is the next five minutes of the game
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