Josh Hodgson

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Josh Hodgson

Post by papabear » March 25, 2019, 10:47 am

Honestly, this guy is an absolute weapon between our goal line and the 80 metres to the opposition 20m.

Then inside there 20 it all goes to **** for me.

3 plays to crash balls to papalii on the 5th and then a kick on the third which we got a repeat set on.

Where just not the right play, even though we got the result on the kick and even though we have gotten tries of crash balls in the past.

To me it is as if he doesnt even know it was the last, I know with one of them sezer was down from being tackled recently, but even with no sezer give it to wighton or put in a kick yourself.

I just cant get my head around how this part of his game hasnt improved. The truth is our team plays as well as hodgson, he is effectively our team, and his garbage decisions or good decisions imo play the biggest part in us winning or losing matches.

Oddly enough the only other player with as big an impact of us winning or losing is leilua.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Raiders_Pat » March 25, 2019, 11:23 am

I do agree that Hodgson has often taken poor options on the last tackle. But I do also think that our other spine players, particularly our halves, need to get themselves in position and demand for the ball on the last. This aspect hopefully should improve as the season goes.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Rickmando » March 25, 2019, 11:40 am

I like Hodgson but have been banging on about this for a little while. He’s extremely dangerous if you give him a broken defensive line in midfield - one of the best. But his play inside the attacking 20 is well below-average, and it clearly separates him from the top echelon of hookers.

I don’t think it’s entirely on him though - our sets are not structured or planned. They haven’t been in his entire tenure with the club. He often has to improvise and we get totally out of shape (crash ball, aimless drift across field to turn one inside to a flat footed forward, grubbed into legs etc etc)

Think about it - how infrequently do we score off a play that creates an overlap for the winger? Just about every other club in the league must score more tries in that fashion than we do (we have plenty scored against us this way, just to rub it in).

Is it the halves lacking confidence/assertion? Is it Hodgson over-estimating his abilities? Or is it the coaching not providing a plan for how we play in the red zone? I think that’s the real discussion.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by I'm Bate Man » March 25, 2019, 11:56 am

So your saying the way our best player plays, in one of the most important roles in team, has a significant bearing on the result?
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by FROG » March 25, 2019, 12:02 pm

Dudes. While i agree hodgos decision making in the red zone can be improved it is by no means an issue that we desperately need to solve. Further, to suggest he is below average in this regard is a wildly inaccurate statement. Him throwing flat balls to papa is powerful as it keeps the defense guessing. Sure it's not gonna always come off but I reckon in a big chunk of times it does. I recall this occurring on 2 times on the weekend (papa caught with the ball on the 5th). To call a spade a spade, Sezer played the ball the second time (Which he shouldn't have) so hodgo was probably forced into this position. Even if Sezer was standing at first receiver I'd have been tempted to keep the ball away from him as Well. He was a MASSIVE liability on the weekend, which as I've flagged elsewhere is the real issue we need to face into. I

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Northern Raider » March 25, 2019, 12:07 pm

Rickmando wrote:
March 25, 2019, 11:40 am
I like Hodgson but have been banging on about this for a little while. He’s extremely dangerous if you give him a broken defensive line in midfield - one of the best. But his play inside the attacking 20 is well below-average, and it clearly separates him from the top echelon of hookers.

I don’t think it’s entirely on him though - our sets are not structured or planned. They haven’t been in his entire tenure with the club. He often has to improvise and we get totally out of shape (crash ball, aimless drift across field to turn one inside to a flat footed forward, grubbed into legs etc etc)

Think about it - how infrequently do we score off a play that creates an overlap for the winger? Just about every other club in the league must score more tries in that fashion than we do (we have plenty scored against us this way, just to run it in).

Is it the halves lacking confidence/assertion? Is it Hodgson over-estimating his abilities? Or is it the coaching not providing a plan for how we play in the red zone? I think that’s the real discussion.
Pretty well on the money IMO. My only (constructive) criticism of Hodgo is he can over play his hand on occaisons. Tries to do too much out of dummy half when nothing more than quick ball to the 1st receiver is needed. This is only a minor criticism however. I'd rather he err this way than play too conservatively.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Matt » March 25, 2019, 12:18 pm

Watch the last game again. His inside runners are getting in his way half the time. He did 360s half a dozen times on the weekend to go back the other way coz his teammates are in the wrong spot.

Now, I agree, crash balls suck, esp with a small pack. however, you cant ignore it completely either, otherwise they never defend for it.

Im surprised he didnt try one of his grubbers on the weekend as a change up.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by sprintman » March 25, 2019, 1:47 pm

Ennis needs to ‘fix’ him, and quickly

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Green eyed Mick » March 25, 2019, 3:49 pm

Hodgo's job is to get us into position to score points. It is the halfback's job to call the right plays and put in the right kicks to score them.

Without hearing what is said on the field it is literally impossible to know with any certainty whether Hodgo is over-ruling his halves or whether he is finding himself in the red zone with no direction coming from his chief play-maker.

Either way it needs to be fixed up because we won't be winning too many games if we finish our sets, especially those in the red zone, the way we did on Friday.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by gangrenous » March 25, 2019, 5:45 pm

Matt wrote:Watch the last game again. His inside runners are getting in his way half the time. He did 360s half a dozen times on the weekend to go back the other way coz his teammates are in the wrong spot.

Now, I agree, crash balls suck, esp with a small pack. however, you cant ignore it completely either, otherwise they never defend for it.

Im surprised he didnt try one of his grubbers on the weekend as a change up.
The issue is they were 5th tackle crash balls after 4 tackles worth of crash balls.

I mean one of them was just laughably stupid running a crash ball at the very spot a crash ball had just hit, with about 7 defenders still in that small portion of the field...

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Bennyinthewest » March 25, 2019, 5:53 pm

This is why I haven't completely given up on Sezer just yet, the amount of times hodgo thinks about going the other way, or just double pumps it instead of early fast ball to the halves on the last has sezer kicking under pressure a lot.

It could be he doesn't rate him too but even so, let sezer show he isn't up to it but you gotta give it to him straight away

England looked a lot better with Roby delivering quick ball (different teams I know) but sometimes you gotta know when to let it go.

I believe our last play the ball of our set is often the slowest, sloppiest one and it needs to be the quickest, improve that and we would go a long way to improving our kicking

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Peter » March 25, 2019, 6:07 pm

I’d say Hodgo is putting too much pressure on himself to create because he has a half who is not up to it and a 5/8 who looks like he is going to either run himself or Croker/Cotric over the sideline whenever he runs the ball. Wighton has an upside at least. Sezer has to go after this week if he can’t lift.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Kryptonite » March 25, 2019, 6:38 pm

A few things
* Sezer stinks, aim up in Austins absence or go to Mounties and get some kind of acceptable form
* Hodgo isnt, and never will be the problem
* Reality check for Cotric, his hair seems to be distracting him
* The dropped ball and poor kicking game is still a problem, our defence is a big improvement
* We need to win and win well this week at home
* Ennis needs ti bring some niggle and grub into our game

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by papabear » March 25, 2019, 7:55 pm

Matt wrote:
March 25, 2019, 12:18 pm
Watch the last game again. His inside runners are getting in his way half the time. He did 360s half a dozen times on the weekend to go back the other way coz his teammates are in the wrong spot.

Now, I agree, crash balls suck, esp with a small pack. however, you cant ignore it completely either, otherwise they never defend for it.

Im surprised he didnt try one of his grubbers on the weekend as a change up.
crash balls on the 5th and kicking on the third when attacking are a crime against rugby league even if they come off.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by papabear » March 25, 2019, 7:59 pm

Kryptonite wrote:
March 25, 2019, 6:38 pm
A few things
* Sezer stinks, aim up in Austins absence or go to Mounties and get some kind of acceptable form
* Hodgo isnt, and never will be the problem
* Reality check for Cotric, his hair seems to be distracting him
* The dropped ball and poor kicking game is still a problem, our defence is a big improvement
* We need to win and win well this week at home
* Ennis needs ti bring some niggle and grub into our game
hodgson isnt the problem in that he is nowhere near average like old mate sezer and wighton.

But since he has been at the club he has thrown crash ball after crash ball. I tolerate them when they are not on the 5th and you get a bit of a result out of boyd and paulo.

Now he is throwing crash balls on the 5th to papalii with boyd and paulo having left the club, it is a crime against humanity.

It saddens me, saddens me, when any sort of kick from him would have been a better option.

Then he drops a kick on the third in the attacking zone, i get that sezer and wighton being passive doesnt help, but fair crack of the whip, he could kick it, if he doesnt want to pass it to them.

Every bad decision is a problem in a game of football, especially against good sides.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by PigRickman » March 25, 2019, 8:08 pm

Im not going to disparage Bae in any real way.
He's a stud and the team runs best when it runs through him... but that was one of his worst games for us. He was very ordinary. The GH is right to largely ignore it, he's capable of better and usually delivers much better... but sometimes we, the collective fans, have to accept the facts of the day... Hodgson stunk it up. Nothing more to be said because he's got runs on the board, but shifting the blame to others isnt fair... sometimes it's just OK to say your best player had a bad game.

Bae had a bad game against the Storm.
It doesnt mean he sucks, it doesnt mean he's "the problem" it just means he was one of MANY (i count about 10) who had a bad game. It happens.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Matt » March 25, 2019, 8:13 pm

gangrenous wrote:
March 25, 2019, 5:45 pm
Matt wrote:Watch the last game again. His inside runners are getting in his way half the time. He did 360s half a dozen times on the weekend to go back the other way coz his teammates are in the wrong spot.

Now, I agree, crash balls suck, esp with a small pack. however, you cant ignore it completely either, otherwise they never defend for it.

Im surprised he didnt try one of his grubbers on the weekend as a change up.
The issue is they were 5th tackle crash balls after 4 tackles worth of crash balls.

I mean one of them was just laughably stupid running a crash ball at the very spot a crash ball had just hit, with about 7 defenders still in that small portion of the field...
Oh yeah, that sequence was a joke

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Northern Raider » March 26, 2019, 8:10 am

Melbourne Storm have a knack of making many top class players look average. Some credit needs to go to the opposition.
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Rickmando » March 26, 2019, 9:58 am

Northern Raider wrote:
March 26, 2019, 8:10 am
Melbourne Storm have a knack of making many top class players look average. Some credit needs to go to the opposition.
They’re also very good at bringing in average players and making them look top class!

This club should make Bellamy an offer he can’t refuse... trouble is that even if he takes it, it’s about a decade too late

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by LastRaider » March 26, 2019, 10:01 am

Hodgson’s not the problem in this team. It’s the halves


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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Northern Raider » March 26, 2019, 10:17 am

LastRaider wrote:
March 26, 2019, 10:01 am
Hodgson’s not the problem in this team. It’s the halves


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Nobody in this thread is suggesting Hodgo is the problem
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Woodgers » March 26, 2019, 11:56 am

gangrenous wrote:
March 25, 2019, 5:45 pm
Matt wrote:Watch the last game again. His inside runners are getting in his way half the time. He did 360s half a dozen times on the weekend to go back the other way coz his teammates are in the wrong spot.

Now, I agree, crash balls suck, esp with a small pack. however, you cant ignore it completely either, otherwise they never defend for it.

Im surprised he didnt try one of his grubbers on the weekend as a change up.
The issue is they were 5th tackle crash balls after 4 tackles worth of crash balls.

I mean one of them was just laughably stupid running a crash ball at the very spot a crash ball had just hit, with about 7 defenders still in that small portion of the field...
Yes, I agree with this statement, and Pigman's comments about it just being an off game for Hodgson which you forgive.

I'm reluctant to point fingers unfairly but surely people think it is a large coaching issue how clueless we are when we do have to set up in the opposition 20? I mean, you look at Ricky as a player and sure the game has evolved, but this should be his bread and butter and he was a master pulling the strings in a team with some of the smoothest red zone attack in the history of the game. It shouldn't be this bad regardless of individual personnel.

What would you not want the Raiders to do in your red zone if you were the opposition coach? For me it isn't the middle it is finding the likes of BJ, Tapine, Whitehead, Cotric, Rapana. Use the crash balls early to create the space for those guys out wide.

People say Sezer should have better control there and i'm not dismissing that point but in a way I look at his strengths and weaknesses and he isn't a threatening player in that aspect of the game. His best asset there is an impromptu kick of some description in behind. Without wanting to pressure the kid too much I think this is where Jack can add value because for me he'd have to be one of our most dangerous players in that scenario in that he is quick enough to run diagonally across field to isolate defenders on edges before the line can get numbers on him, strong enough to be too powerful if he can create that 1 on 1 with opposition defenders (particularly halves) and good enough to throw the overlap ball if defences compress where he is running to. I'd be looking for Jack in those scenarios. I don't want to be too scathing of Sezer but Ricky almost needs to simplify his job as much as Bennett did with Soward at Dragons when they won the comp and that is, be solid in defence and try to have the best kicking game in the comp. He's not a particularly threatening runner or passer of a steeden. It is what it is.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Coastalraider » March 26, 2019, 12:04 pm

PigRickman wrote:
March 25, 2019, 8:08 pm
Im not going to disparage Bae in any real way.
He's a stud and the team runs best when it runs through him... but that was one of his worst games for us. He was very ordinary. The GH is right to largely ignore it, he's capable of better and usually delivers much better... but sometimes we, the collective fans, have to accept the facts of the day... Hodgson stunk it up. Nothing more to be said because he's got runs on the board, but shifting the blame to others isnt fair... sometimes it's just OK to say your best player had a bad game.

Bae had a bad game against the Storm.
It doesnt mean he sucks, it doesnt mean he's "the problem" it just means he was one of MANY (i count about 10) who had a bad game. It happens.
Yeah I agree.

its funny - after round 1, I thought the only 2 players who didnt meet or exceed expectation were Whitehead and Tarpine, and they weren't BAD - they just didnt have the impact you would expect from international players.

After round 2, I struggled with finding too many people who played to their ability - lets hope we bounce back this week.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Canberra Milk » March 26, 2019, 12:16 pm

All the more reason to bring Sammy in at 7. His first thought is to pass/distribute and that suits our team, even more so with Wighton at five eighth. He's also vocal enough to overcall Hodgson

Hodgo did this all 2017 btw, so you can't just write it off as one bad game. People were even calling for Baptiste to start in 2017, after consistently lifting us out of our flatness every game. Love our co-captain and all like everyone else and our season largely hinges on him but he's not perfect, needs to pick his moments better in the opposition 20

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Pete Cash » March 26, 2019, 12:37 pm

Hodgson does it often enough that I am sure its a tactic from the coach or at least was a tactic. I think the storm just beat the **** out of us and the decision making went out the window and we went back to basics. Surely the team isn't dumb enough to keep doing the crash ball now that we are significantly smaller. I will just put it down to the storm smothering us for a variety of reasons.

But if you look at that game I know that the 6,7 and 9 all had fairly average games but I am somewhat sympathetic. The storm clobbered us in the forwards and they kept a pretty skinny ten. There wasn't a lot of room for the playmakers to do much of anything. I know the buck stops with them because they make the big dollars but it seems the storm were up in our face as the ball was being played

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Canberra Milk » March 26, 2019, 1:09 pm

Pete Cash wrote:
March 26, 2019, 12:37 pm
Hodgson does it often enough that I am sure its a tactic from the coach or at least was a tactic. I think the storm just beat the **** out of us and the decision making went out the window and we went back to basics. Surely the team isn't dumb enough to keep doing the crash ball now that we are significantly smaller. I will just put it down to the storm smothering us for a variety of reasons.

But if you look at that game I know that the 6,7 and 9 all had fairly average games but I am somewhat sympathetic. The storm clobbered us in the forwards and they kept a pretty skinny ten. There wasn't a lot of room for the playmakers to do much of anything. I know the buck stops with them because they make the big dollars but it seems the storm were up in our face as the ball was being played
That was terrible tactics by us. You don't just keep ploughing up the middle if they're charging you there every time. A bit of variation like an inside ball etc, something effective but not necessarily overly fancy, is what good teams will do there to reverse momentum.

I don't think it is coached anyway. Ricky has said he's pretty hands off with the attack, from memory.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Woodgers » March 26, 2019, 1:28 pm

Really? So the micro-managing Ricky who wants his halves to take control and regularly talks about the pressure on them to run the team just leaves their tuition to Brett White? Alarm bells are ringing Willy!!
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Pete Cash » March 26, 2019, 1:38 pm

Canberra Milk wrote:
March 26, 2019, 1:09 pm

That was terrible tactics by us. You don't just keep ploughing up the middle if they're charging you there every time. A bit of variation like an inside ball etc, something effective but not necessarily overly fancy, is what good teams will do there to reverse momentum.

I don't think it is coached anyway. Ricky has said he's pretty hands off with the attack, from memory.
That is a pretty crazy stance for a coach as an aside and one I find difficult to believe.

I think last years grand final showed that an aggressive enough defense can upset even the best teams attack. The first 20 minutes we were getting absolutely crushed and playing catch up the entire game because of it. The storm keep a pretty good defensive line and they were clearly offside for the entire game. That or they are some of fastest humans on Earth. If the storm have a unified defensive line basically on top of the hooker as he is playing the ball then all the inside balls in the world are going to struggle to overcome that.

The whole trick is not to get demolished in the forwards/ruck to start with. Hodgson and co were bad but the forwards got wrecked by the storm.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Canberra Milk » March 26, 2019, 1:43 pm

Woodgers wrote:
March 26, 2019, 1:28 pm
Really? So the micro-managing Ricky who wants his halves to take control and regularly talks about the pressure on them to run the team just leaves their tuition to Brett White? Alarm bells are ringing Willy!!
I don't think the crash balls are coached, correct. Otherwise they would have occurred regardless of who played at hooker. And they didn't, not with Havili, not with Baptiste. I'm speculating of course, we all are, but it's extremely plausible that it's just a Hodgo thing.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Canberra Milk » March 26, 2019, 1:51 pm

Pete Cash wrote:
March 26, 2019, 1:38 pm
I think last years grand final showed that an aggressive enough defense can upset even the best teams attack. The first 20 minutes we were getting absolutely crushed and playing catch up the entire game because of it. The storm keep a pretty good defensive line and they were clearly offside for the entire game. That or they are some of fastest humans on Earth. If the storm have a unified defensive line basically on top of the hooker as he is playing the ball then all the inside balls in the world are going to struggle to overcome that.

The whole trick is not to get demolished in the forwards/ruck to start with. Hodgson and co were bad but the forwards got wrecked by the storm.
But how do you not get demolished in the forwards/ruck, then? You just plough it up and hope for the best? Surely there's more strategy to it... eg no team is willing to spread the ball early anymore. I think it's an underused tactic but there there's plenty of other smaller things to do. Another is run in twos and threes so the defence can't over-commit to the ball-carrier... there's heaps and heaps of strategies to use to win the ruck. I don't think we used enough, in fact I don't think we used any. Just like I said, ploughed it up and hoped for the best with no intelligence behind it whatsoever.

Look at how the Storm used the ball and asked questions of us, and in doing so made countless metres... it's not just luck, and it's not even their players. Their forwards are barely better than ours on paper.

That's true and a very fair example though, Storm did to us what Roosters did to Storm in the GF.

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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Finchy » March 26, 2019, 4:05 pm

Coastalraider wrote:
March 26, 2019, 12:04 pm
PigRickman wrote:
March 25, 2019, 8:08 pm
Im not going to disparage Bae in any real way.
He's a stud and the team runs best when it runs through him... but that was one of his worst games for us. He was very ordinary. The GH is right to largely ignore it, he's capable of better and usually delivers much better... but sometimes we, the collective fans, have to accept the facts of the day... Hodgson stunk it up. Nothing more to be said because he's got runs on the board, but shifting the blame to others isnt fair... sometimes it's just OK to say your best player had a bad game.

Bae had a bad game against the Storm.
It doesnt mean he sucks, it doesnt mean he's "the problem" it just means he was one of MANY (i count about 10) who had a bad game. It happens.
Yeah I agree.

its funny - after round 1, I thought the only 2 players who didnt meet or exceed expectation were Whitehead and Tarpine, and they weren't BAD - they just didnt have the impact you would expect from international players.

After round 2, I struggled with finding too many people who played to their ability - lets hope we bounce back this week.
I disagree. Whitehead was seriously bad. Four dropped balls. Pretty much that was it. Terrible game. Yes the conditions were poor, but he was by far the worst.

Keghead
Noa Nadruku
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Keghead » March 26, 2019, 5:06 pm

Canberra Milk wrote:
March 26, 2019, 12:16 pm
All the more reason to bring Sammy in at 7. His first thought is to pass/distribute and that suits our team, even more so with Wighton at five eighth. He's also vocal enough to overcall Hodgson

Hodgo did this all 2017 btw, so you can't just write it off as one bad game. People were even calling for Baptiste to start in 2017, after consistently lifting us out of our flatness every game. Love our co-captain and all like everyone else and our season largely hinges on him but he's not perfect, needs to pick his moments better in the opposition 20
Spot on IMO.Seez needs to learn the difference in running the show and running his show.

When Hodgo takes the wrong options at 9 its hard to fix that choice at 6 or 7, if the time is already up it cant be fixed. Remember the good 9s are always supposed to be one play ahead of themselves but there is no way this is happening at the moment but a good chance it may happen if he puts some more trust in others.

Our 9 and 7 are the ones who said they would do all the steering this year so I don't see any use in throwing the wheel to someone else when your just about to crash and expecting a result.

TongueFTW
Glenn Lazarus
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by TongueFTW » March 27, 2019, 6:40 am

The good news is that Hodgson is actually a really good passer of the ball - when he wants to, he can hit the halves on the chest with clean 20-30m passes. Quality service from dummy half is so important.

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Canberra Milk
Laurie Daley
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by Canberra Milk » March 28, 2019, 7:14 pm

Dragons getting great results against Broncos here by spreading the ball early, which alludes to what I was saying about going beyond just ploughing it up the middle. Early days though to be fair.

Edit: and again, 60 metres up the field with a simple spread through the hands, mid set in their own 30. It's not just a forwards game

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edwahu
Laurie Daley
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Re: Josh Hodgson

Post by edwahu » March 29, 2019, 7:11 pm

Quality performance from an elite talent tonight.

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