The Greenhouse

Posted: **March 31, 2019, 4:45 pm**

I think there's a gulf in ability, style is definitely similar.

Posted: **March 31, 2019, 4:54 pm**

I really think Jack’s switch to five-eighth is a big reason for us being 2-1 to start the season

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Posted: **March 31, 2019, 5:18 pm**

greeneyed wrote: ↑March 31, 2019, 3:14 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑March 31, 2019, 1:41 pm
greeneyed wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 7:24 pm
Woodgers wrote: ↑March 30, 2019, 5:57 pm I'm happy to respectfully disagree with the harsh comments on Jack last night. I'd just reiterate that while people judge the errors you also need to view it in the full context of all the stuff he is getting right that are all effort such as the kick chase, bringing the line up with him in defence, rucking the ball out like an extra fullback and pressuring the kicker when he can.

I think he'll be a good 5/8. He has the power to be a good pivot in attack and defence. I do agree with Lastraider though, Ricky needs to pull him back a bit and stop him trying to be a halfback, that's not his job. He's a running 5/8 and it is on Ricky to get a 7 in there that can play like he used to in order to allow Jack to play like Daley did. Jack has those running attributes but he's not an overly smart player so we need to find a way to simplify it for him.

I believe Jack will be the best defensive half in the comp by the middle of the year. I think at the moment his tackling technique is excellent but he's just adjusting the the quick shifts in the line and working with new bodies and combinations. I was surprised that Ramien got the better of him but once I saw it a few times I realised that I had to credit the attacking player there rather than search for faults with the defender. It happens. Leilua and our outside backs regularly do that to other defenders and we applaud the running game without giving thought to what opposition fans think of the defending. Sometimes the ball runner is too strong.
Good post Woodgers. I don't think Jack had a good game last night, the five errors and at least one try cause were pretty significant. He did do a lot of other good things... which is why I gave him a pass mark in my player ratings. I think the coach is right, Jack is on a good path, kept his head up after the errors, and I think he'll make a very good, possibly elite, Daley style five eighth.

Lozza Wighton huh? Ridiculous comparison even saying Daley style. Wighton has about 20% of the attacking skills Daley had, and is also an inferior team defender.
It wasn't a comparison. It was saying he could play the same style of five eighth that Daley did, that is a running five eighth.

Shaun Timmins would be a better comparison point. Daley was a great ball runner but he had so much more to has game with kicking and game control that Wighton will never get close to matching.

Posted: **April 1, 2019, 4:06 pm**

The backline today is little like it was in the 90s in Daley's area. It simply wasn't the block-plays it is now, in some ways barely resembles it. In those days you had inside and outside centre who played alongside each other, and the five-eighth was like an inside-inside centre. You'd generally line up directly against your opposite number. As a result, the five-eighth then could much more easily be one-on-one against a defender, hence Fittler's famous step etc. They are really a second halfback now. Munster would be the most running five-eighth you can get these days, but even he does a significant amount of passing and kicking. Bottom line is that it is an organising role now. Milford and Ponga have both failed at five-eighth because their running is restricted. Blake Austin tried to be a running five-eighth and it just ended up looking weird, doing random runs in the middle of the ruck.

Posted: **April 1, 2019, 5:51 pm**

Canberra Milk wrote: ↑April 1, 2019, 4:06 pm The backline today is little like it was in the 90s in Daley's area. It simply wasn't the block-plays it is now, in some ways barely resembles it. In those days you had inside and outside centre who played alongside each other, and the five-eighth was like an inside-inside centre. You'd generally line up directly against your opposite number. As a result, the five-eighth then could much more easily be one-on-one against a defender, hence Fittler's famous step etc. They are really a second halfback now. Munster would be the most running five-eighth you can get these days, but even he does a significant amount of passing and kicking. Bottom line is that it is an organising role now. Milford and Ponga have both failed at five-eighth because their running is restricted. Blake Austin tried to be a running five-eighth and it just ended up looking weird, doing random runs in the middle of the ruck.

Exactly. Think about Daley's highlights with his running game, stepping and powering his way through in midfield from within the opposition 20. I don't remember Wighton ever doing this, or anyone in the NRL doing it with anywhere near the consistency that Fitler, Daley and Johns would. The defensive lines today just don't allow halves to get through close to the line.

Posted: **April 1, 2019, 6:01 pm**

Daley had the benefit of learning his craft from one of the best centres and halves to play the game.

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Posted: **April 1, 2019, 8:56 pm**

Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑April 1, 2019, 5:51 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: ↑April 1, 2019, 4:06 pm The backline today is little like it was in the 90s in Daley's area. It simply wasn't the block-plays it is now, in some ways barely resembles it. In those days you had inside and outside centre who played alongside each other, and the five-eighth was like an inside-inside centre. You'd generally line up directly against your opposite number. As a result, the five-eighth then could much more easily be one-on-one against a defender, hence Fittler's famous step etc. They are really a second halfback now. Munster would be the most running five-eighth you can get these days, but even he does a significant amount of passing and kicking. Bottom line is that it is an organising role now. Milford and Ponga have both failed at five-eighth because their running is restricted. Blake Austin tried to be a running five-eighth and it just ended up looking weird, doing random runs in the middle of the ruck.
Exactly. Think about Daley's highlights with his running game, stepping and powering his way through in midfield from within the opposition 20. I don't remember Wighton ever doing this, or anyone in the NRL doing it with anywhere near the consistency that Fitler, Daley and Johns would. The defensive lines today just don't allow halves to get through close to the line.

Jack gets pretty close- the number of times he's dragged down a metre out...

Jack is a big athletic bloke same as Freddy or Daley were, but they were genius and Jack is just a similar style, but a grade down in talent. That's not an insult, it's like saying Ricky was a genius halfback but Cliffy Lyons or Mitchell Pearce are a step down in talent.

I think Jack took a similar path to learning that sweep play on the left. He's a great athlete but it takes him time to get his head around a subtlety- he's not a "footballer" like Bateman or Croker snr or whoever who just gets it straight away. Jack can make his running game deadly as a half, he'll just need a season to figure it all out. His instinct is balls to the wall 100mph and he's a hard man to bring down, after a while he figured out how/when to pass out to Toots or cut to Cotric and he made that edge deadly.

He can learn, he's not Joey. He's humble. I'm not saying he'll be a legend half but I think there is more than enough to his kicking game (balance appropriately HODGO, Jack for most long but not all, and only as second or third option close/medium), running game and passing skills to be a pretty good half. Honestly look at NRL halves these days vs Stuart era- the comp is NOT flush with complete halves. Most are makeshift.

Posted: **April 1, 2019, 10:19 pm**

I think Wighton at 6 has been our best option for some time with the roster we have. One of the reasons was defence. While it was disappointing to see him beaten so convincingly one on one by Ramien and then with a poor decision that lead to the Knights other try I am confident he will prove to be very solid over the course of the year. I'm also confident his kicking game will be OK over the course of the year despite some ordinary efforts last week.

What I am most concerned about is that little jink he puts on when getting the ball in the opposition 20m which pushes him left immediately. It is fine to do that as a centre or even fullback when getting the ball 2 or 3 wide off the ruck. But at first receiver it pushes him and his outside men wider than they need to be which makes them easier targets to the defensive line. He needs to be far more direct in his first few steps which will open up avenues for his outside men and make the defenders make the choice, not us make the choice for them.

Just my thoughts, I think he will be good in the role and will keep working hard to improve.

Posted: **April 3, 2019, 2:05 pm**

BadnMean wrote: ↑April 1, 2019, 8:56 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑April 1, 2019, 5:51 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: ↑April 1, 2019, 4:06 pm The backline today is little like it was in the 90s in Daley's area. It simply wasn't the block-plays it is now, in some ways barely resembles it. In those days you had inside and outside centre who played alongside each other, and the five-eighth was like an inside-inside centre. You'd generally line up directly against your opposite number. As a result, the five-eighth then could much more easily be one-on-one against a defender, hence Fittler's famous step etc. They are really a second halfback now. Munster would be the most running five-eighth you can get these days, but even he does a significant amount of passing and kicking. Bottom line is that it is an organising role now. Milford and Ponga have both failed at five-eighth because their running is restricted. Blake Austin tried to be a running five-eighth and it just ended up looking weird, doing random runs in the middle of the ruck.
Exactly. Think about Daley's highlights with his running game, stepping and powering his way through in midfield from within the opposition 20. I don't remember Wighton ever doing this, or anyone in the NRL doing it with anywhere near the consistency that Fitler, Daley and Johns would. The defensive lines today just don't allow halves to get through close to the line.
Jack gets pretty close- the number of times he's dragged down a metre out...

Jack is a big athletic bloke same as Freddy or Daley were, but they were genius and Jack is just a similar style, but a grade down in talent. That's not an insult, it's like saying Ricky was a genius halfback but Cliffy Lyons or Mitchell Pearce are a step down in talent.

I think Jack took a similar path to learning that sweep play on the left. He's a great athlete but it takes him time to get his head around a subtlety- he's not a "footballer" like Bateman or Croker snr or whoever who just gets it straight away. Jack can make his running game deadly as a half, he'll just need a season to figure it all out. His instinct is balls to the wall 100mph and he's a hard man to bring down, after a while he figured out how/when to pass out to Toots or cut to Cotric and he made that edge deadly.

He can learn, he's not Joey. He's humble. I'm not saying he'll be a legend half but I think there is more than enough to his kicking game (balance appropriately HODGO, Jack for most long but not all, and only as second or third option close/medium), running game and passing skills to be a pretty good half. Honestly look at NRL halves these days vs Stuart era- the comp is NOT flush with complete halves. Most are makeshift.

He has done enough in his first few games to still be the first half picked. Sezer and Williams have much more glaring shortcomings as a duo than either of them paired with Wighton, so at least we'll give him a really good run at 6 this time before pulling the plug.

I also think we add a bit at the back with positioning for kick receptions with CNK back there. It may be my imagination (and a small sample size) but we seem to be starting sets much more on the front foot with the way he attacks the ball.

Posted: **April 3, 2019, 3:39 pm**

BadnMean wrote: ↑April 1, 2019, 8:56 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑April 1, 2019, 5:51 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: ↑April 1, 2019, 4:06 pm The backline today is little like it was in the 90s in Daley's area. It simply wasn't the block-plays it is now, in some ways barely resembles it. In those days you had inside and outside centre who played alongside each other, and the five-eighth was like an inside-inside centre. You'd generally line up directly against your opposite number. As a result, the five-eighth then could much more easily be one-on-one against a defender, hence Fittler's famous step etc. They are really a second halfback now. Munster would be the most running five-eighth you can get these days, but even he does a significant amount of passing and kicking. Bottom line is that it is an organising role now. Milford and Ponga have both failed at five-eighth because their running is restricted. Blake Austin tried to be a running five-eighth and it just ended up looking weird, doing random runs in the middle of the ruck.
Exactly. Think about Daley's highlights with his running game, stepping and powering his way through in midfield from within the opposition 20. I don't remember Wighton ever doing this, or anyone in the NRL doing it with anywhere near the consistency that Fitler, Daley and Johns would. The defensive lines today just don't allow halves to get through close to the line.
Jack gets pretty close- the number of times he's dragged down a metre out...

Jack is a big athletic bloke same as Freddy or Daley were, but they were genius and Jack is just a similar style, but a grade down in talent. That's not an insult, it's like saying Ricky was a genius halfback but Cliffy Lyons or Mitchell Pearce are a step down in talent.

I think Jack took a similar path to learning that sweep play on the left. He's a great athlete but it takes him time to get his head around a subtlety- he's not a "footballer" like Bateman or Croker snr or whoever who just gets it straight away. Jack can make his running game deadly as a half, he'll just need a season to figure it all out. His instinct is balls to the wall 100mph and he's a hard man to bring down, after a while he figured out how/when to pass out to Toots or cut to Cotric and he made that edge deadly.

He can learn, he's not Joey. He's humble. I'm not saying he'll be a legend half but I think there is more than enough to his kicking game (balance appropriately HODGO, Jack for most long but not all, and only as second or third option close/medium), running game and passing skills to be a pretty good half. Honestly look at NRL halves these days vs Stuart era- the comp is NOT flush with complete halves. Most are makeshift.

Yeah, I'm right on board with you about Wighton. All the attributes are there to make him a deadly attacking option. He's a hard man to handle 1 on 1 just due to his size and power. Once he learns how to draw defenders and release his outside men, he'll be fantastic. He'll also put the outside defender in two minds, giving him more 1 on 1 chances close to the line.

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 11:48 am**

Ive got to admit that Jack is picking up the five eight job much much faster than I thought.

I cant recall any stupid brain fade errors in the last couple of weeks, and he looks like the most threatening player in our squad right now. I found myself getting excited yesterday when the play shifted to the left, as he is always up to something now. Earlier in the season I was just praying he wouldn't mess it up.

Well done to Jack, Im very impressed with how quick he is adapting. he is threatening with his running, his pass selection is very good, his kicking is improving, and its bloody great to see him in the defensive line more often - especially laying out second rowers like he did yesterday!

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 1:02 pm**

Early on we saw plenty of quality play alongside some bad errors which were offsetting. Last couple of weeks he's tempered the approach a touch and the clangers have disappeared. He's also getting more finesse into his kicking game.

I said at the start of the season that I think he needs to be better at 5/8 than he was at fullback for this switch to be a success. After 9 weeks I'd say he has and it's been a big contributor to our current ladder position.

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 2:26 pm**

Oh shock horror the internet experts might not have known what they were talking about.......how unusual.

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 2:34 pm**

T_R wrote: ↑March 31, 2019, 4:45 pm I think there's a gulf in ability, style is definitely similar.

About a tenth of the gulf between your opinion and your ability.

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 2:41 pm**

Keghead wrote: ↑May 13, 2019, 2:26 pm Oh shock horror the internet experts might not have known what they were talking about.......how unusual.

Great contribution.

My angle was always that he had skills to be a 6, but that it would take a long time for hi to get to the point where he was comfortable. Exactly like it took him a couple of years to get comfortable in the fullback role and really start playing to his potential. He has really adapted significantly faster than I thought he would, and Im ecstatic have that shoved in my face.

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 4:46 pm**

Looks like we need a reminder in here too.
Please return to the thread topic for this discussion.
Thanks

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 6:53 pm**

Is there a reason why Keg's off-topic posts are still here?

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 7:06 pm**

Because he was right and it deserves to be in all your faces, especially yours, but especially barts

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 7:08 pm**

It’s great that my posts got deleted though... really good work, guys

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Posted: **May 13, 2019, 7:59 pm**

Massive kudos to the bloke tbh.

I’m not saying he’s our best player but I think with how the squad is atm he is definitely our most important player.

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 8:17 pm**

hrundi89 wrote: ↑May 13, 2019, 6:53 pm Is there a reason why Keg's off-topic posts are still here?

I would imagine that it's because of his deep insights into the game of rugby league.

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 8:19 pm**

The Rickman wrote: ↑May 13, 2019, 7:08 pm It’s great that my posts got deleted though... really good work, guys

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And they were brilliant. BRILLIANT.

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 8:31 pm**

simo wrote: ↑May 13, 2019, 7:06 pm Because he was right and it deserves to be in all your faces, especially yours, but especially barts

Posted: **May 13, 2019, 8:56 pm**

T_R wrote: ↑May 13, 2019, 8:17 pm
hrundi89 wrote: ↑May 13, 2019, 6:53 pm Is there a reason why Keg's off-topic posts are still here?
I would imagine that it's because of his deep insights into the game of rugby league.

Does that qualify him as an internet expert?

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 2:42 pm**

If the rumours are true, as long as Wighton stays injury free, he will be playing for the Blues this year off the bench.

Completes a pretty remarkable turnaround for the guy - I love watching players like him through our juniors and up through the grade - very rewarding for us fans. Still remember his debut against the Titans - this will be a very proud moment for him if it turns out to be true. Will give him a lot of confidence back at the Raiders, too.

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 3:37 pm**

you'd think he's a shot at the vacant right centre position too.

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 4:02 pm**

bonehead wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 3:37 pm you'd think he's a shot at the vacant right centre position too.

Yeah except that Jack plays on the left.

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 4:40 pm**

Beejay wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 4:02 pm
bonehead wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 3:37 pm you'd think he's a shot at the vacant right centre position too.
Yeah except that Jack plays on the left.

...and doesn't play centre.

Thats the bizarre part of most media commentary. They seem happy to talk up a player out of position but don't believe a left centre can play right centre.

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 4:49 pm**

His last two games have been Daleyesque. There. I’ve said it. He’s the next Laurie Daley. Best new Laurie since Mark McLinden

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 9:10 pm**

Northern Raider wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 4:40 pm
Beejay wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 4:02 pm
bonehead wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 3:37 pm you'd think he's a shot at the vacant right centre position too.
Yeah except that Jack plays on the left.
...and doesn't play centre.

Thats the bizarre part of most media commentary. They seem happy to talk up a player out of position but don't believe a left centre can play right centre.

Honestly, they almost seem desperate for any excuse not to pick Croker at this point.

But I'd be incredibly happy for Jack if he's picked as a utility. He strikes me this season as someone desperate to prove that he was worth a second chance, interviews seem to indicate that he's got his head screwed on straight, and he's playing very well. Plus, with his skills, experience, and body shape, he's almost a perfect utility.

And I gotta eat some crow, because I was screaming at the start of the year how stupid this idea was, it didn't work last time why would moving Jack to five-eighth work this time, and...well...uh, yeah, I was really bloody wrong, wasn't I?

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 9:16 pm**

Beejay wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 4:02 pm
bonehead wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 3:37 pm you'd think he's a shot at the vacant right centre position too.
Yeah except that Jack plays on the left.

He played on the right as a centre.

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 9:19 pm**

edwahu wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 9:16 pm
Beejay wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 4:02 pm
bonehead wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 3:37 pm you'd think he's a shot at the vacant right centre position too.
Yeah except that Jack plays on the left.
He played on the right as a centre.

When was that?

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 9:22 pm**

Northern Raider wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 9:19 pm
edwahu wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 9:16 pm
Beejay wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 4:02 pm
bonehead wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 3:37 pm you'd think he's a shot at the vacant right centre position too.
Yeah except that Jack plays on the left.
He played on the right as a centre.
When was that?

Back in the day.

http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/match ... 0tLS0tLQ==

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 9:26 pm**

Laurie Daley saying Josh Morris is the favourite for that right centre, Wighton in the frame, Croker's defence suspect.

Posted: **May 15, 2019, 9:28 pm**

edwahu wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 9:22 pm
Northern Raider wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 9:19 pm
edwahu wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 9:16 pm
Beejay wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 4:02 pm
bonehead wrote: ↑May 15, 2019, 3:37 pm you'd think he's a shot at the vacant right centre position too.
Yeah except that Jack plays on the left.
He played on the right as a centre.
When was that?
Back in the day.

http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/match ... 0tLS0tLQ==

Haha, I don't really remember that. I was probably too enraptured by our spine of Robinson, Campo, McCrone and Buttriss.

The Greenhouse

Jack Wighton confirms switch to five eighth

Re: Jack Wighton confirms switch to five eighth

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