The Greenhouse

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 12:38 pm**

Woodgers wrote: ↑January 25, 2019, 11:27 am I'm actually starting to think that something else is going to happen and I say that because there is talk about that 7's winger (I should learn his name) being a red hot chance at being there R1. Then there has been talk of Oldfield training strongly and he looks like he's in career best shape as well. Cotric then denied being considered for fullback so all signs point to him being the #1 come R1.

As i've said before i'm not really up for a debate on the merits of who plays where because I'm not convinced either way but what I find interesting is that Abbey is being judged from what he did on his last match for Mounties at the end of the year when he was probably busted and been on the sauce with the 1st grade squad since they got knocked out. Why isn't anyone mentioning his match he had against the Broncos on debut, he had a good game for someone playing their 1st match in 1st grade at fullback. I would've thought that the measuring stick for his game is his performances in 1st grade and I know people will come back and say he got dropped (knocked out whatever it is all a blur for me now) and we moved Cotric there, but I don't remember him being as shocking as is being portrayed here. Regardless if he has given everything all offseason and gets a chance i'm happy to give him a clean slate.

yeah i dont think Abbey is some Kris Kahler level trash unit like some are portraying.

I think he's probably a fringe first grader who can look OK one week and a bit **** the next. He's a fullback, so when he has a bad game it's really magnified. I think it's unfair to judge him off one bad game for Mounties.

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 12:39 pm**

Here's the thing though SeeBee....every player got nervous in that 2nd half against the Broncos and he had little protection from the onslaught, I doubt many fullbacks would have done much better in that environment. He cops the wrath though because everyone was scruitinising him moreso because it was his Raiders debut (sorry Zim, my mistake there).

Zim I should correct myself, performances in reserve grade are worth measuring but I wouldn't have thought as much as when he played 1st grade as fullback.

GE... who the HELL is Bailey Simonsson

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 12:42 pm**

greeneyed wrote: ↑January 25, 2019, 12:20 pm If Bailey Simonsson makes his debut Round 1, that’ll be quite a promotion for development player. But I’ve also been hearing he’s gone very well at training.

If he was a really good prospect they would've signed him for longer.
I'd be flabbergasted if he played first grade this year.

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 12:47 pm**

The Wighton/Abbey/Williams discussion has been done to death. My main hope is that Abbey has thickened up a little or the club has opened up the purse strings and bought him a smaller jersey. He deadset looked like a gangly 15 y/o wearing some oversized pyjamas last year.

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Posted: **January 25, 2019, 1:32 pm**

gergreg wrote: ↑January 25, 2019, 12:47 pm The Wighton/Abbey/Williams discussion has been done to death. My main hope is that Abbey has thickened up a little or the club has opened up the purse strings and bought him a smaller jersey. He deadset looked like a gangly 15 y/o wearing some oversized pyjamas last year.

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Gergreg i'd say there is many more miles to go in this discussion over 2019. Agree that right now it is all speculation and armchair analysis though.

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 1:55 pm**

Just to make my position a bit clearer. Not really directed at anyone. I'm not just judging Abbey off one bad Mounties game, it's just the one that emphasizes my point. He's had a number of sub par games, for Mounties and the Raiders.
If he's upgraded to "solid" over the pre-season I'll be happy. If he hasn't then I realize we're in a bad position and be unhappy with him being picked.

Williams is another on the fringe and while he has also had the odd shocker for Mounties he's also dragged them across the line for wins. Likewise Guler and Horsburgh have put in big performances for Mounties that have really opened the game up. They look like they're better than the other players on the park. I'm not advocating picking Williams over Abbey, just pointing out what other "fringe first graders" look like in reserve grade.
A positive performance from Abbey seems to be defined more by his lack of negatives than his positives.
There's a number of fullbacks in ISP like William Kennedy and Patrick Herbert that look a cut above that aren't getting runs in 1st grade. That's what I wish Abbey was doing in reserve grade.

Anyway I've rambled about the issue long enough.

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 1:58 pm**

wasn't there a shocker he had for the Raiders where he had a bunch of errors and was moved to be hidden on the wing with Cotric moving to the back mid game?

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 2:14 pm**

gergreg wrote: ↑January 25, 2019, 12:47 pm The Wighton/Abbey/Williams discussion has been done to death. My main hope is that Abbey has thickened up a little or the club has opened up the purse strings and bought him a smaller jersey. He deadset looked like a gangly 15 y/o wearing some oversized pyjamas last year.

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Can anyone remember a player who would be good for us if they bulked up ever actually bulking up, let alone getting better? There must be two or three this line gets trotted out for every year but I can't remember any who actually managed to do it.

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 2:27 pm**

Zim it appears that we're in the same basket after all, not going to die in a ditch either way but i'm leaning more towards Wighton at 6 to fix the defensive line. Looking forward to your analysis and opinions this season.

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 4:35 pm**

I've seen a lot of players come through the grades over the years and Abbey isn't somebody you're ever wanting to rely on in First Grade. There is absolutely nothing in his game that indicates he's up to standard on a regular basis.

Cotric is simply not a fullback (centre or second rower perhaps) and Oldfield is a dead set winger.

If Wighton is being moved from fullback there simply must be someone else coming in.

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 5:33 pm**

edwahu wrote: ↑January 25, 2019, 2:14 pm
gergreg wrote: ↑January 25, 2019, 12:47 pm The Wighton/Abbey/Williams discussion has been done to death. My main hope is that Abbey has thickened up a little or the club has opened up the purse strings and bought him a smaller jersey. He deadset looked like a gangly 15 y/o wearing some oversized pyjamas last year.

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Can anyone remember a player who would be good for us if they bulked up ever actually bulking up, let alone getting better? There must be two or three this line gets trotted out for every year but I can't remember any who actually managed to do it.

I have no idea why bulking up is used as a term, maybe someone with some super human genetics may explain.

Posted: **January 25, 2019, 5:41 pm**

Woodgers wrote: ↑January 25, 2019, 2:27 pm Zim it appears that we're in the same basket after all, not going to die in a ditch either way but i'm leaning more towards Wighton at 6 to fix the defensive line. Looking forward to your analysis and opinions this season.

Cheers.

Posted: **January 26, 2019, 11:57 am**

If this happens it'll fail and Jack will be back at fullback before mid way through the season.

He's not a half and never will be.

Posted: **January 26, 2019, 1:20 pm**

afgtnk wrote:If this happens it'll fail and Jack will be back at fullback before mid way through the season.

He's not a half and never will be.

I don’t think Jack is a halfback, but I think he could be a very good running 5/8

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Posted: **January 26, 2019, 4:08 pm**

El_Capitano wrote: ↑January 26, 2019, 1:20 pm
afgtnk wrote:If this happens it'll fail and Jack will be back at fullback before mid way through the season.

He's not a half and never will be.
I don’t think Jack is a halfback, but I think he could be a very good running 5/8

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100%. His effectiveness, should he move to #6 will depend entirely on how Ricky divides up the responsibilities between he and Sezer.

If they play traditional first and second receiver roles with Sezer directing and kicking and Wighton running and passing, Wighton should be just fine in the #6.

Posted: **January 26, 2019, 5:47 pm**

Translation:

This move will depend on the coaches ability to... coach.

Posted: **January 26, 2019, 7:20 pm**

Pigman wrote:Translation:

This move will depend on the coaches ability to... coach.

Oh boy. Could get ugly. The Chairs and Texers are quivering in fear already.

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Posted: **January 26, 2019, 8:01 pm**

This approach worked in 2003 with Croker. The game has changed substantially - is there even such thing as a running 5/8 any more? Jack will be the half for one side of the field, that means organising and kicking when required. I'm with alphabet in having no doubt this will be a failure all over again.

Posted: **January 26, 2019, 9:02 pm**

Some teams have their halves playing 2 sides of the field , especially if there is a dominant half.

The halves do seem to link up more these days , maybe not the traditional way like how Ricky and Lozza played.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 5:23 am**

The way I see it. We lose nothing in terms of ball playing by shifting wighton to 5/8 in place of Austin. Did Austin ever pass the ball in his life?

The real question is, can jack kick a field goal? My biggest concern is that we couldn't close out games with sezer and hodgo last year. I'd hoped we signed a solid organising half to resolve this. It seems that sticks solution to this is to remove all defensive liabilities. Not saying this wont work but to me it hasn't really solved the root cause of the problem. Time will tell if it comes off.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 6:00 am**

We need a fullback and I'm out looking for one today.

Even in this heat I'm determined to find one.

If Dylan Edwards ain't coming because the $$$ ain't right I'll eat my hat. The club should have sorted this out before Christmas. Sweeten the deal with Dylan Edwards and get him down here. We are 3 weeks away from our FIRST trail, combinations are important.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 6:10 am**

Isn’t Simmonson a development player meaning he can’t play ahead of those in the top 30 unless they’re unavailable?

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 6:17 am**

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 6:37 am**

Thought so. There’d realistically have to be another 2/3 injuries or suspensions for him to be able to play unless the club upgrade his contract and use him for the Rapana cover.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 10:55 am**

Sticky once said Jack Wighton was one of the best fullbacks in the NRL. Most on here thought his 2018 performances were his best in that position.

I would continue to play him at FB. William's, Sezer and Hodgo to make up the balance of the spine.

With a more mobile pack I would like to see the team play with that spine.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 11:19 am**

With amore mobile pack i think its crucial that we dont have an obvious weakness in our defensive line.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 11:31 am**

I think the three regular FGers no longer with us mean we are already stronger defensively. My memory is that the tries against us came mostly on the right or up the middle. Matt or Ed can you confirm?

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 11:34 am**

Sack the whole team and we’d be amazing defensively!

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 1:21 pm**

RedRaider wrote: ↑January 27, 2019, 11:31 am I think the three regular FGers no longer with us mean we are already stronger defensively. My memory is that the tries against us came mostly on the right or up the middle. Matt or Ed can you confirm?

Up to the point Austin was dropped it was left. Heavily so.

My recollection was it drifted right though the middle of the yr.

But finished left again with the injuries on our left edge and Sammy.

That said, we were conceeding lots of meters up the middle. More than any other side.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 1:30 pm**

NRL used to publish the stat for where tries are scored but it's another one that they just decided to drop for some reason.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 1:43 pm**

El_Capitano wrote: ↑January 26, 2019, 1:20 pm
afgtnk wrote:If this happens it'll fail and Jack will be back at fullback before mid way through the season.

He's not a half and never will be.
I don’t think Jack is a halfback, but I think he could be a very good running 5/8

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That doesn't work in our system or with our halfback.

Our 5/8 needs to be able to play first receiver. Jack is no where near good enough for that, he requires a completely different skill to the one he has. Having to organise the men inside and outside of you is not comparable to playing out the back every so often.

If we were to change our system and let the 5/8 play predominantly as a second or third receiver, we need a dominant, controlling halfback. Neither Williams or Sezer are that.

Again, I repeat that this will fail miserably if we do it, as it did the last time we did it.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 7:33 pm**

edwahu wrote: ↑January 25, 2019, 2:14 pm
gergreg wrote: ↑January 25, 2019, 12:47 pm The Wighton/Abbey/Williams discussion has been done to death. My main hope is that Abbey has thickened up a little or the club has opened up the purse strings and bought him a smaller jersey. He deadset looked like a gangly 15 y/o wearing some oversized pyjamas last year.

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Can anyone remember a player who would be good for us if they bulked up ever actually bulking up, let alone getting better? There must be two or three this line gets trotted out for every year but I can't remember any who actually managed to do it.

I remember Rapa saying he put on 4kg one offseason. Pretty sure it was prior to 2016.

At his age and with his frame, Abbey could do that too.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 7:52 pm**

I reckon most NRL players add bulk/muscle as they go from lower grades to established FGers. Papa was always chunky but he is much bigger now.
James Tedesco has gone from scrawny Tyro who was broken in a collision with Campo to the rep player muscularity of today.
Abbey has a long way to go to become a FG standard FB just in size alone. He was a fly weight last year and it showed.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 8:03 pm**

RedRaider wrote:I reckon most NRL players add bulk/muscle as they go from lower grades to established FGers. Papa was always chunky but he is much bigger now.
James Tedesco has gone from scrawny Tyro who was broken in a collision with Campo to the rep player muscularity of today.
Abbey has a long way to go to become a FG standard FB just in size alone. He was a fly weight last year and it showed.

Combine natural muscle gain as you physically mature, with intensive weight training, diet and supplements and players can add a good few kilos of muscle each year.

You look back at old games and see the builds of Dugan, Inglis and others in their first couple of seasons. Big difference.

Posted: **January 27, 2019, 8:51 pm**

Sid wrote: ↑January 25, 2019, 1:58 pm wasn't there a shocker he had for the Raiders where he had a bunch of errors and was moved to be hidden on the wing with Cotric moving to the back mid game?

He copped a head knock/accidental crusher where his neck got really jammed into the tacklers torso in that game and was on wobbly legs for the rest of the half. He made a couple of errors straight after the incident.

The Greenhouse

Jack Wighton confirms switch to five eighth

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

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Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

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Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

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Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

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Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for

Re: Jack Wighton set for

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up

Re: Jack Wighton set for "shock" switch in Raiders shake-up