Podcast with Matt Elliott

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PigRickman
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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by PigRickman » January 7, 2019, 7:53 pm

Re: Elliott v Stuart

there is no doubt. Stuart is a better recruiter and a far inferior coach. Stuart's squads leave all before him and after Sheens for dead. Which is too his credit. Elliott couldnt recruit, was a very bad developer but his team players, as limited as they were (largely due to his inability to recruit and develop) got WAY more out of their limited talent than Stuart's sides do

I think every single coach we've had in the modern era would have a better W/L ratio than Stuart with his squad. Elliott, Furner, Henry and Meninga were IMO better "coaches" than Stuart. They got more from their players than Stuart does with his when considering talent levels. But none of them would be able to be build his squad.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by The Rickman » January 7, 2019, 7:56 pm

Pigman wrote:Re: Elliott v Stuart

there is no doubt. Stuart is a better recruiter and a far inferior coach. Stuart's squads leave all before him and after Sheens for dead. Which is too his credit. Elliott couldnt recruit, was a very bad developer but his team players, as limited as they were (largely due to his inability to recruit and develop) got WAY more out of their limited talent than Stuart's sides do

I think every single coach we've had in the modern era would have a better W/L ratio than Stuart with his squad. Elliott, Furner, Henry and Meninga were IMO better "coaches" than Stuart. They got more from their players than Stuart does with his when considering talent levels. But none of them would be able to be build his squad.
So that begs the question, Nock... would you prefer Elliott with his squad but they show up every week and play finals football 80% of the time, or would you prefer Stuart and his “better recruitment” and the exact opposite (and I mean EXACT opposite) in every single regard?

Because I know which one I preferred. And let’s just say I never actively stopped watched the Raiders in the Elliott, Henry or even Furner years.


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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by PigRickman » January 7, 2019, 8:05 pm

The Nickman wrote:
January 7, 2019, 7:56 pm
Pigman wrote:Re: Elliott v Stuart

there is no doubt. Stuart is a better recruiter and a far inferior coach. Stuart's squads leave all before him and after Sheens for dead. Which is too his credit. Elliott couldnt recruit, was a very bad developer but his team players, as limited as they were (largely due to his inability to recruit and develop) got WAY more out of their limited talent than Stuart's sides do

I think every single coach we've had in the modern era would have a better W/L ratio than Stuart with his squad. Elliott, Furner, Henry and Meninga were IMO better "coaches" than Stuart. They got more from their players than Stuart does with his when considering talent levels. But none of them would be able to be build his squad.
So that begs the question, Nock... would you prefer Elliott with his squad but they show up every week and play finals football 80% of the time, or would you prefer Stuart and his “better recruitment” and the exact opposite (and I mean EXACT opposite) in every single regard?

Because I know which one I preferred. And let’s just say I never actively stopped watched the Raiders in the Elliott, Henry or even Furner years.


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If my goal is to win a premiership... i side with talent. Talent trumps all, talent always has a chance where everything falls into place just right and you stumble into glory. So if i want to win a title, definitely take the talent. You have a chance with talent

If my goal is just to like watching the football and want to take some joy out of the experience. Pretty strong case to be made for a team of likeable guys who give it their all and play hard every week. But im in a different phase of my life now too, in the throes of the Elliott era... boy, it wouldn't be close. Haha

But mostly i reject the premise. Stuart isnt some unicorn. It's not Stuart or bust in terms of smart, targeted recruitment for a club with disadvantages like ours. We get a guy who has the pull like Stuart and is a... y'know... competent football coach... so why not do that? haha.

The Henry teams were probably the most fun teams in recent times to support. They were pretty good, pretty talented, played a fun aggressive style and had a chance. Very likeable teams
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by The Rickman » January 7, 2019, 8:32 pm

If your goal is to win the premiership, you need to at least make the finals occasionally, m8.

It doesn’t matter a pinch of **** how talented your squad is if they never make the top 8.


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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by dubby » January 7, 2019, 9:48 pm

Elliott was a ordinary coach. He bailed on us for better cattle in Penrith where his coaching win % was 43%. They made the finals once, won the spoon once in that era.
Then on to a good NZ team at 45%. They didn't make the finals.

All decent teams. All failed.

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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by zim » January 8, 2019, 1:39 pm

tristanknell13 wrote:
January 5, 2019, 10:11 am
Hey guys,

Did a podcast recently with Matty Elliott. A real footy brain as you guys know he gave some great persepective on being an NRL first grade coach. Also shared some nice stories from his Raiders days.

https://www.talkingwithtk.com/single-po ... ew-Elliott

Talking with TK - Ep 111: Matthew Elliott https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode/?id=309538

Also had Bradley Clyde on previously and just talking to a couple of former legends also.

Talking with TK - Ep 22: Bradley Clyde https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode/?id=114273

Enjoy if you check it out

Tristan
https://www.talkingwithtk.com/
Some great insight in that podcast.
Except for him thinking Deepak Chopra is any kind of a real scientist.

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Matt
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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by Matt » January 8, 2019, 6:45 pm

Finally listened to the Elliott podcast today. He was great. Very interesting. TBH, im surprised he isnt a coach still having heard him and watched him analyze footage.

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dubby
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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by dubby » January 8, 2019, 6:53 pm

I think he's happier in the media, Matt. And probably better suited to it.

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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by PigRickman » January 8, 2019, 6:56 pm

Matt wrote:
January 8, 2019, 6:45 pm
Finally listened to the Elliott podcast today. He was great. Very interesting. TBH, im surprised he isnt a coach still having heard him and watched him analyze footage.
The book on him as i recall (and this was written about a bit when he was sacked by Gould, i think Gould spoke about it) was that he had these super elaborate "zone" coaching techniques where based on where his team was on the field, they defended and attacked in totally different ways and had different rules on what to do... which i think probably plays very well in an interview and on TV, but players and coaches felt it was far to complex to be able to execute consistently.

I could be mis-remembering that but im pretty sure i read something about this when he was turfed from the panthers
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

gergreg
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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by gergreg » January 8, 2019, 7:30 pm

I thought the gazing into teammates eyes was the tipping point for Gould. I vaguely recollect Gould saying that he had a football related conversation with Elliott and Gould had no idea what he was talking about.

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greeneyed
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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by greeneyed » January 8, 2019, 8:02 pm

On the other hand... Gould probably coached before there were channels identified on the field... and before there were A and B defenders. But some coaches do make a simple game far too complicated.
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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by PigRickman » January 8, 2019, 8:12 pm

greeneyed wrote:
January 8, 2019, 8:02 pm
On the other hand... Gould probably coached before there were channels identified on the field... and before there were A and B defenders. But some coaches do make a simple game far too complicated.
Yeah that's a very fair counter. Was Elliott over complicating a simple game, or was Gould too outdated to see the merits of this idea?
Elliott's history suggests he probably wasnt some budding football genius but im not sure Gould's hiring history suggests a lot of innovation either.

Maybe they're both wrong?!
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by dubby » January 8, 2019, 8:39 pm

You're on the money, pig.

I knew a guy coached by Matt Elliott, and he said that Elliott was overly complicated. Very, very structured.

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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » January 8, 2019, 9:45 pm

Yeah the story I remember was Gould had a chat with Elliott on his coaching style. Elliott was explaining the zone technique, and he didn’t understand what he was on about. He was thinking the game was beyond him, until he asked a player about Elliott’s style. The player said he had no idea, and Gus let him go


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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by Matt » January 9, 2019, 8:16 am

Sounds like an NFL style D in League. TBH, I can see it, BUT, I can also see why its complicated.

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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by woppadingo » January 11, 2019, 1:02 pm

Roger Kenworthy wrote:
January 7, 2019, 12:39 pm
The Nickman wrote:
January 7, 2019, 12:17 pm
Matt Elliott was easily the best coach we've had for getting the best out of players week in, week out since Tim Sheens. No idea how Ricky "one in five seasons" Stuart gets a continual free pass from the likes of dubby while a bloke with a 50/50 finals record with a much inferior team gets flat-out labelled a "terrible coach".

The hypocrisy is absolutely off the charts.
50/50?

Elliott didn't take over until 2002:
2002 - Finals, 8th
2003 - Finals, 4th
2004 - Finals, 8th
2005 - 15th
2006 - Finals, 7th

Easily the best making the finals record of any coach since Sheens. We never looked likely of making a GF in that time though, we were 0-5 in finals matches under Elliott.

I really can't say any coach has been the best in this period. All have been out of their depth.
Thats pretty impressive considering the cattle we had at the time. Even though we didnt win any finals games.
Gotta also say Meninga was really only a figurehead as QLD coach, and had a magnificent squad.

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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by greeneyed » January 11, 2019, 2:05 pm

Indeed, Meninga was such a useless coach at Origin level, they made him Australian coach.
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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by woppadingo » January 11, 2019, 2:50 pm

greeneyed wrote:
January 11, 2019, 2:05 pm
Indeed, Meninga was such a useless coach at Origin level, they made him Australian coach.
He has many great qualities but it was acknowledged at the time that he had great support staff, including a defensive coach, an attacking coach as well as trainers.
Dave Furner was also good enough to be an assistant Australian coach, so it seems.

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Re: Podcast with Matt Elliott

Post by dubby » January 11, 2019, 4:49 pm

woppadingo wrote:
Roger Kenworthy wrote:
January 7, 2019, 12:39 pm
The Nickman wrote:
January 7, 2019, 12:17 pm
Matt Elliott was easily the best coach we've had for getting the best out of players week in, week out since Tim Sheens. No idea how Ricky "one in five seasons" Stuart gets a continual free pass from the likes of dubby while a bloke with a 50/50 finals record with a much inferior team gets flat-out labelled a "terrible coach".

The hypocrisy is absolutely off the charts.
50/50?

Elliott didn't take over until 2002:
2002 - Finals, 8th
2003 - Finals, 4th
2004 - Finals, 8th
2005 - 15th
2006 - Finals, 7th

Easily the best making the finals record of any coach since Sheens. We never looked likely of making a GF in that time though, we were 0-5 in finals matches under Elliott.

I really can't say any coach has been the best in this period. All have been out of their depth.
Thats pretty impressive considering the cattle we had at the time. Even though we didnt win any finals games.
Gotta also say Meninga was really only a figurehead as QLD coach, and had a magnificent squad.
Elliott had very good cattle, at one point.

Then he started this "we have a ploder squad" spiel, to cover his own shortcomings as coach. Wasn't it his job to recruit players?

As the Clique like to say, who is responsible for recruiting? Um, the coach? (Caveat inserted on my behalf for future benefit)

And Elliott gave us Jason Cocaine Smith, Matt Adamson, Brad Drew and David Howell.

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