Through green eyes 2019

All the news on the Canberra Raiders NRL team, all in one place

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LastRaider
Brett Mullins
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by LastRaider » April 15, 2019, 6:15 pm

T_R wrote:Take one off Wighton and give it to Williams and you're there, I think.
I agree TR, Williams was more consistent then Wighton through out the game


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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » April 15, 2019, 7:04 pm

With Jack Wighton produced five errors and gave away three penalties. One penalty was probably not justified, but he was lucky to get away with not being penalised in another incident, which didn't reflect well on the club in my view. I'm surprised the club highlighted it today as a memorable defensive moment from the match - it was a fantastic tackle, but what happened afterwards, giving a player with a broken nose a facial, was poor.

So he makes quite a few errors, but he also produces a lot of other positive play. He's a strong runner, made eight runs for 74 metres, 23 post contact metres, made three tackle breaks, made 28 tackles, most of them hard and tough, scored a try, made eight kicks for 226 metres and forced a line drop out. So maybe it's a point too much... but he produces a lot of pluses that people sometimes forget.
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RedRaider
Steve Walters
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by RedRaider » April 15, 2019, 7:14 pm

Cranky Old Man wrote:
April 12, 2019, 5:49 pm
RedRaider wrote:
April 12, 2019, 10:13 am
I agree with you Rickman about getting rid of Golden point. If at the end of 80 minutes the scores are locked then 1 point each. It worked well for a century or so.
I'm with Red, horses and all.
Good on ya Cranky. We didn't have a horse, but remember walking through bush to get to Primary School at Milperra and drinking the one third pint bottles of milk. Different times. Next thing they'll be banning bungers and bonfires on Empire night.

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Steve Walters
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by RedRaider » April 15, 2019, 7:24 pm

GE you spoke again about Jack but nothing about Sam. Once upon a time you would have called it unconscious bias. I try to judge everyone on their 2019 form. Coach is praising his performance based on this year.

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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » April 15, 2019, 8:44 pm

RedRaider... I have no doubt Sam has earned his place in the team. I like Sam... I'm not sure why you think I don't. I look at each game on merit as best I can.
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Keghead
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Keghead » April 15, 2019, 8:44 pm

I thought Hudson Young did a great job within his short stint on the field,some good moments there and he gets a 4 (I guess that is just inline with the minutes he plays but you can only do so much within that time).

And just on GE"S comment on things "Not reflecting well on the Club" I think the way Fergo basically stuck his finger up at "The Club" and "Furnsey" is still much more worthy of condemnation than a bit of nose tickling(Mind you the "tickler" wasn't the only one looking to inflict a bit of pain on Fergo,some of the "Popular Boys" were having a good go at it and deservedly so).

Ultimately though it's one persons opinion who obviously has never played the game (but is entitled to an opinion as is everyone on the forum) but constantly scores a 0 on the grounds of importance.

Sam is going great guns but many who have the "Unconscious Bias" (or just find it hard to give certain people credit) have their finger on the trigger and the finger is getting itchy but there is no doubt they will get to fire their shots at some stage this season.

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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » April 15, 2019, 8:58 pm

Given my views and opinions have zero importance, and my playing background was back in the dim, distant school days, I'm grateful so many people take the time to read and take the time to comment! Thanks again everyone!
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T_R
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by T_R » April 15, 2019, 9:18 pm

Keghead wrote:
April 15, 2019, 8:44 pm
Ultimately though it's one persons opinion who obviously has never played the game (but is entitled to an opinion as is everyone on the forum) but constantly scores a 0 on the grounds of importance.
Just out of interest, what is your definition of 'importance' here?
You've handed GE a zero. What's your 'importance' score?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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dubby
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by dubby » April 15, 2019, 9:22 pm

Why can't we judge someone on the minutes they play, not the full 80 minutes of the game?

If Young plays 15 minutes (as an example), but it was a great 15 minutes....why can't that be rated as a 7?



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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » April 15, 2019, 9:28 pm

dubby wrote:
April 15, 2019, 9:22 pm
Why can't we judge someone on the minutes they play, not the full 80 minutes of the game?

If Young plays 15 minutes (as an example), but it was a great 15 minutes....why can't that be rated as a 7?



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I can certainly see the argument for that dubby, but the ratings I'm giving aim to reflect overall contribution to the game. I grew up with the RLW rating system, and my approach is consistent with that tradition. The other way to interpret it, is that a player who plays a quarter of the match, is getting a pretty good score with a 4.
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LastRaider
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by LastRaider » April 15, 2019, 9:52 pm

greeneyed wrote:With Jack Wighton produced five errors and gave away three penalties. One penalty was probably not justified, but he was lucky to get away with not being penalised in another incident, which didn't reflect well on the club in my view. I'm surprised the club highlighted it today as a memorable defensive moment from the match - it was a fantastic tackle, but what happened afterwards, giving a player with a broken nose a facial, was poor.

So he makes quite a few errors, but he also produces a lot of other positive play. He's a strong runner, made eight runs for 74 metres, 23 post contact metres, made three tackle breaks, made 28 tackles, most of them hard and tough, scored a try, made eight kicks for 226 metres and forced a line drop out. So maybe it's a point too much... but he produces a lot of pluses that people sometimes forget.
That’s all correct GE, but he is playing in the halves so he should be analyzed on try assists, kicks in play, repeat sets etc. Post contact meters and that are more for the forwards.


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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » April 15, 2019, 9:56 pm

But Jack is playing a role as running five eighth.
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simo
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by simo » April 15, 2019, 10:11 pm

I really like ge’s scoring system. Definitely gets closest to the mark as he uses the entire 0-10 range instead of 5 being the base score
Dont delete this GE

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BadnMean
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by BadnMean » April 15, 2019, 11:30 pm

LastRaider wrote:
April 15, 2019, 6:15 pm
T_R wrote:Take one off Wighton and give it to Williams and you're there, I think.
I agree TR, Williams was more consistent then Wighton through out the game


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Just watched the first 50 on replay and Williams kicking game is on point. Would be rapped to high heaven if it was Cronk or Pearce delivering it and it is that good.

Funny how the Raiders control an entire half of footy, game in the palm of our hands, Hodgo crash balls into oblivion (as per the plan so free pass from me) and kicks out on the full, like he does every single game this year- ditto Wighton- but Williams gets no credit for making the Raiders as efficient and remorseless as a Melbourne attacking game- that feeling when you get stuck in your corner and then drop a ball that you will probably spend the next 10 minutes down in that corner as well.

Williams might be worth a bit more of a rap.

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Steve Walters
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by RedRaider » April 16, 2019, 10:29 am

greeneyed wrote:
April 15, 2019, 8:44 pm
RedRaider... I have no doubt Sam has earned his place in the team. I like Sam... I'm not sure why you think I don't. I look at each game on merit as best I can.
I reckon his rating has been a point short in all 3 matches. That's consistent

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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » April 19, 2019, 12:22 pm

Through green eyes: The top eight

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The Canberra Raiders don't have the best of records against Brisbane Broncos. Back in the 1990s, the clubs were two of rugby league's "glamour" teams. Brisbane V Canberra was the Grand Final everyone wanted to see, but it just never happened. Even back in the "good old days", Brisbane always seemed to somehow come up with the win. In the years pre-dating the NRL, Canberra won just seven of 19 matches between the clubs. Since the formation of the NRL it hasn't got any better. The Raiders have won just 12 of 33 clashes. Overall, that's just a 37 per cent win rate.

But what of the great victories over the old nemesis? This week, I give you a different version of the top eight. The top eight victories over the Brisbane Broncos!

Number 8 - Raiders knock Broncos out of the finals



Round 26 2010. The final round of the regular season. The Raiders visited Lang Park for a meeting with the Brisbane Broncos. The Broncos had to win by 15 points or more - or they would miss the finals for the first time since 1991. The Raiders, having climbed into eighth on the ladder, needed to win to keep the momentum into the finals. It was semi final football a week early in front of 40,000. There were Raiders fans everywhere, and were packed solid in the supporters bay in the corner.

The Raiders were first to score, with Terry Campese putting in a perfect bomb to the corner in the 18th minute, allowing winger Daniel Vidot to knock the ball back in the in goal and then pounce on it for the try. Just a few minutes later, Campese produced another kick to the same corner - with a try to Josh Dugan the result. The Raiders led 12-0, but the Broncos fought back through an individual try to hooker Andrew McCullough. The teams went to the break with a 12-4 advantage for the Green Machine.

The Raiders seemed destined for a win when Daniel Vidot scored his second try in the 59th minute - pushing the Raiders to an 18-4 lead. But the Broncos came back again in the final stages, scoring two tries in the space of four minutes. However, the Raiders desperately scrambled in defence as the clock ticked down, hanging on for a very sweet 18-16 win.

It was the Raiders eighth victory in the past nine matches, while the Broncos had lost four in a row, crashing out of the finals.

Terry Campese twice knocked down passes on the final play which might have produced match-winning tries for the Broncos.

"We always knew they were going to throw the ball around and they were throwing some off-loads without even looking," said Campese. "[But] we're a much better team than what we showed at the start of the year and I think we're starting to hit our straps. We have to take this confidence into next week and keep the momentum going.

2010 Round 26 - Canberra Raiders 18 (Daniel Vidot 2, Josh Dugan tries; Jarrod Croker 3 goals) defeated Brisbane Broncos 16 (Matt Gillett, Andrew McCullough, Jharal Yow Yeh tries; C. Parker 2 goals) at Lang Park

Number 7 - First finals match in Brisbane

Quarter Final 1995. In 1995, the Raiders faced the Broncos at Lang Park in the first final ever to be played outside of Sydney. It was a match that rightly should have been played in Canberra - or at least at a neutral venue - because the Raiders had qualified second on 40 competition points, and the Broncos third, on 34. But a decision had been taken much earlier to award a finals game to Lang Park. The match turned into a classic, with the Raiders dashing the hopes of a 40,000 crowd. The Raiders led 7-6 at half time, and took control through a 50 metre try to Brad Clyde shortly after the break. A Stuart field goal 20 minutes into the second half gave the Green Machine a six point lead that the Raiders would not surrender. Though coach Tim Sheens was disappointed in the second half, there was no doubt about the big game finals atmosphere.

1995 Quarter Final 2 - Canberra Raiders 14 (Brad Clyde, Steve Walters tries; Furner 2 goals; Stuart 2 field goals) defeated Brisbane Broncos 8 at Lang Park

Number 6 - What might have been

Round 19 1993. In 1993, we saw a match of grand final intensity when the Broncos travelled to Bruce Stadium. That was the year that might have been. But for a cruel injury to Ricky Stuart on the eve of the finals, the Green Machine would have made a huge run at the premiership. A then record crowd of 24,801 crammed into Bruce Stadium, and a furious first half produced a 4-4 scoreline. A 70 metre intercept try from Mal Meninga was the turning point shortly after half time, producing rapture from the crowd. Ricky Stuart then controlled the match with his line kicks. The 20-4 win was secured against the eventual premiers with a Jason Croker try, 10 minutes from the final hooter.

1993 Round 19 - Canberra Raiders 20 (Mal Meninga, Laurie Daley, Jason Croker, Paul Osborne tries; David Furner 2 goals) defeated Brisbane Broncos 4 at Bruce Stadium

Number 5 - North versus south

Round 11 1988. The Brisbane Broncos entered the NSWRL competition in 1988 and this was the first time that the Canberra Raiders - the southern most club - had travelled so far north. The Brisbane team was chock full of State of Origin players - and Queensland had won a State of Origin match just five days before.



Brisbane were coached by the Raiders co-coach from 1987, Wayne Bennett, who had taken Canberra to the 1987 Grand Final. But Queensland representatives, Gary Belcher, Peter Jackson and Sam Backo starred in the Raiders' demolition of the Broncos. Belcher scored two tries and had a personal points tally of 20. Young half Ricky Stuart made his debut for the Raiders off the bench in front of a Lang Park crowd of 15,909.

1988 Round 11 - Canberra Raiders 36 (Gary Belcher 2, Craig Bellamy, Laurie Daley, Peter Jackson, John Ferguson tries; Gary Belcher 6 goals) defeated Brisbane Broncos 6 at Lang Park

Number 4 - They came but we conquered!

Round 12 1989. The Broncos made their first visit to Seiffert Oval in June 1989. Both teams were in the top four - the Broncos running second on the ladder, the Raiders in fourth. Canberra had produced a seven game winning streak between Rounds 3 and 9, but had faltered in the following two rounds, with losses to Newcastle and Penrith.

The fans' expectations of the clash were still high, with both teams littered with Origin stars. The rivalry between the clubs was also fueled by the defection of coach Wayne Bennett, along with Sam Backo and Peter Jackson, from the Raiders to the Broncos. As the match loomed, Bennett was openly seeking to poach half Kevin Walters from Canberra.

On the Wednesday night prior to the match, Queensland had wrapped up the State of Origin series. But the tough clash left new Raiders captain Mal Meninga with a badly swollen eye and cheek and a fractured sinus wall - after being punched in the face by Blues forward Peter Kelly. The Raiders toyed with playing him on the wing in the Broncos match, but he was unable to take the field. Laurie Daley also damaged ligaments in his right ankle, putting him in serious doubt - but after anti inflamatories and plenty of ice, he was cleared to play at the final training session. The Broncos were also injury affected, with Allan Langer breaking his left ankle in Origin II - and with Gary French brought in at half.

The Raiders would move to a new home at Bruce in 1990, so the Broncos' first visit to Seiffert would also be their last. A record crowd of 18,272 turned out on a cold Sunday afternoon. The thrilling game fully lived up to expectations. The Raiders' pack were intent on smashing the big name Broncos forwards into submission. Props Glenn Lazarus and Brent Todd led the way up front - along with Gary Coyne and Brad Clyde, who were both backing up from Origin. Clyde, just 19 years of age, scored two tries, including a solo effort from near half way. He shifted to centre in the second half when Laurie Daley left the field, and didn't miss a beat.

Hooker Steve Walters, overlooked for Origin, was outstanding, finishing on top of his brother Kerrod, who had been given the Queensland No. 9 jersey. Halves Ricky Stuart and Chris O'Sullivan outplayed the Broncos' pair, with O'Sullivan keeping Wally Lewis quiet, before "The King" left the field in the second half.

In the end, it was a comprehensive 27-6 victory, a portent for what was to come that season. The headline in The Canberra Times the next day screamed: "They came but we conquered".

1989 Round 12 - Canberra Raiders 27 (Brad Clyde 2, Gary Belcher, Craig Dimond, John Ferguson tries; Gary Belcher 2, Ricky Stuart goals; Ricky Stuart field goal) defeated Brisbane Broncos 6 (Terry Matterson try; Terry Matterson goal) at Seiffert Oval

Number 3 - Raiders dispatch Broncos on their way to the premiership

1990 Preliminary Final. In 1990, the Raiders finished first on the ladder, on the same number of competition points as the Brisbane Broncos. But it was the Penrith Panthers that qualified first for the Grand Final, when they defeated Canberra in a semi final. It pitched the Raiders into a battle with Brisbane in the season's penultimate match.



Canberra had suffered a narrow and controversial loss two point loss to the Broncos at Lang Park earlier in the year. But the Raiders smashed Brisbane in this match, 32-4, with Mal Meniga taking home a personal points tally of 18. Both Meninga and Martin produced try scoring doubles. The Raiders were just one win away from back to back premierships.

1990 Preliminary Final - Canberra Raiders 32 (Paul Martin 2, Mal Meninga 2, Phil Carey tries; Mal Meninga 5, Gary Belcher goals) defeated Brisbane Broncos 4 at the Sydney Football Stadium

Number 2 - "It is a miracle!"

Round 8 1995. It was a Friday night at Bruce and almost 24,000 turned up to see a heavy weight clash, one that was worthy of a Grand Final. Both were undefeated in the first seven rounds. It turned into a 26-0 thrashing for the team in green. The Stuart-Langer clash was an expected highlight, and Stuart came out well on top. Clyde and Furner led the dominant forwards, and Furner ended by scoring two tries.



Brett Mullins produced the most memorable try, certainly one of the top five tries in Raiders' history. It was the 19th minute and Mullins seemed covered by the defence near half way. The classic commentary is hard to forget: "Kick and chase by Mullins. Kick and chase again by Mullins! This will be a miracle! Oh, it is a miracle! Oh my goodness, you won't see anything else like that again this year. And maybe never!"

It was Mullins’ 50th try for the club.

The Raiders followed with more pain for the Broncos in the 36th, 43rd and 55th minutes. The Broncos were held scoreless for the first time since 1991. The Raiders extended their unbeaten run at home to 25 matches.

1995 Round 8 - Canberra Raiders 26 (David Furner 2, Brett Mullins, Jason Croker, Ken Nagas tries; David Furner 3 goals) defeated Brisbane Broncos 0 at Bruce Stadium

Number 1 - Broncos blitzed!

Round 21 2009. The Green Machine lined up against a Brisbane Broncos team that included eight internationals and five Origin representatives at Canberra Stadium. Yet at full time, Canberra had inflicted the biggest ever defeat on the Broncos in Brisbane's history. 56-0. It was a stunning win for the Raiders, with a young team running circles around the likes of Darren Lockyer. Phil Graham scored four tries and Joel Monaghan two. There were 10 tries in all. Jarrod Croker was man of the match, while halves Terry Campese and Josh McCrone were instrumental. It is still the equal fourth biggest victory in Raiders' history.

The defeat for the Broncos came in the wake of Karmichael Hunt’s ill fated defection to the AFL’s Gold Coast team and it left the tenure of Brisbane coach Ivan Henjak hanging by a thread.

“They don't get much darker than tonight. It was very embarrassing and all we can do is apologise to our fans, our sponsors and our past players – that was just unacceptable,” Henjak - a former Raider - said after the game.

Four try hero for the Raiders, Phil Graham, however, was beaming.

“It was just one of those games where everything worked for us. I don’t know what it was, but all the boys were just on fire tonight. It was just one of those games where everything worked for us and we can just look forward to next week now,” he said.

Round 21 2009 - Canberra Raiders 56 (Phil Graham 4, Joel Monaghan 2, Jarrod Croker, Josh Dugan, Josh McCrone, Daniel Vidot tries; Terry Campese 8 goals) defeated Brisbane Broncos 0 at Canberra Stadium

***

The Raiders keep passing their "tests" most every week. Now there's another one. The pressure never lets up in the toughest rugby competition in the world. I use the word rugby by itself deliberately - John Bateman or Ryan Sutton English style. They call rugby league and rugby union, "rugby" and that is just as it should be. Rugby union in Australia likes to reserve the term for their exclusive use... but I'm happy to go with our English imports on this one. Because when I say it is the toughest rugby competition in the world, I mean both league and union.

The Broncos are under serious pressure. Anthony Seibold was poached from the Rabbitohs by the Broncos - induced to break his existing contract in the process. Raiders fans will remember that's not the first time the Broncos have done that. Brisbane tossed their multi-premiership winning coach, Wayne Bennett over board along the way. But now Bennett is cruising at the Rabbitohs, while Brisbane has just one win to their name in the opening five weeks. If they lose and produce a 1 and 5 start to the season, it'll be just the second time that's happened in the Broncos' history. Seibold, a former Raider, will be sweating bullets on Sunday.

Coach Ricky Stuart knows that when any rugby league team have their backs to the wall, that is when they are at their most dangerous. He's been warning his team all week that the Broncos will come ready to play, ready to prove a point. I'm worried myself. In recent years, when the Raiders have been warm favourites, that's when things come unstuck. However, this is yet another opportunity for this team to prove they are not the Raiders of old.

Raiders legend Laurie Daley is tipping a Broncos win in this one... so it seems he's not quite yet a believer. But when you look at the form lines, the statistics - everything points to a Raiders victory. I am tipping the Raiders by six at home.

***

Don't forget it's again a triple header at Canberra Stadium on Easter Sunday, so make sure you get to the ground early. The Raiders Jersey Flegg team faces the New Zealand Warriors at 11:45 am before Mounties take on the Warriors in NSW Cup at 1:40 pm. Both teams are playing good footy, so it is definitely worth seeing how the younger players are progressing.

There is no Canberra Raiders Cup for the Easter weekend. But the Raiders SG Ball team is in action later this afternoon at Kogarah Jubilee Stadium at 4:00pm. If you're in Sydney, why not get along to cheer them along in their Week 2 finals match against the Central Coast Roosters?

***

Every week I rate the Raiders players on a scale of 0-10... and here are the total points and average points per match after the win over the Eels. Let us know if you agree with the ratings... or not!

Total points

John Bateman 38
Josh Papalii 37
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 36
Josh Hodgson 36
Sia Soliola 35
Jarrod Croker 34
Joey Leilua 34
Jack Wighton 33
Elliott Whitehead 32
Nick Cotric 31
Ryan Sutton 31
Siliva Havili 29
Dunamis Lui 26
Jordan Rapana 26
Corey Horsburgh 23
Sam Williams 18
Joe Tapine 13
Aidan Sezer 12
Hudson Young 11
Bailey Simonsson 6

Average points per match

John Bateman 7.6
Josh Papalii 7.4
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 7.2
Josh Hodgson 7.2
Sia Soliola 7.0
Jarrod Croker 6.8
Joey Leilua 6.8
Jack Wighton 6.6
Jordan Rapana 6.5
Elliott Whitehead 6.4
Nick Cotric 6.2
Ryan Sutton 6.2
Aidan Sezer 6.0
Bailey Simonsson 6.0
Sam Williams 6.0
Siliva Havili 5.8
Corey Horsburgh 5.8
Dunamis Lui 5.2
Joe Tapine 4.3
Hudson Young 3.7

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If you can put some sentences together and you'd like to write a regular column for The Greenhouse, let us know! We are keen to have more contributing writers!
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T_R
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by T_R » April 19, 2019, 7:00 pm

Quality read, and some nostalgic viewing. Thanks!
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Sid
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Sid » April 19, 2019, 7:19 pm

Haven’t beaten the Broncos since 2013... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33333
Would have won Boogs - 2016, 2017, 2018

RedRaider
Steve Walters
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by RedRaider » April 21, 2019, 10:14 pm

greeneyed wrote:
April 15, 2019, 7:04 pm
With Jack Wighton produced five errors and gave away three penalties. One penalty was probably not justified, but he was lucky to get away with not being penalised in another incident, which didn't reflect well on the club in my view. I'm surprised the club highlighted it today as a memorable defensive moment from the match - it was a fantastic tackle, but what happened afterwards, giving a player with a broken nose a facial, was poor.

So he makes quite a few errors, but he also produces a lot of other positive play. He's a strong runner, made eight runs for 74 metres, 23 post contact metres, made three tackle breaks, made 28 tackles, most of them hard and tough, scored a try, made eight kicks for 226 metres and forced a line drop out. So maybe it's a point too much... but he produces a lot of pluses that people sometimes forget.
The 5 errors and 3 penalties mean he gave up more meters than he ran. As always I'll be interested in the rating of each player following our win over the Broncos.

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-TW-
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by -TW- » April 21, 2019, 10:43 pm

He's such a rollercoaster in 80mins

Drops an inside pass cold that he probably scores off
Then kicks the most unlikely looking 40/20

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zim
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by zim » April 21, 2019, 11:31 pm

Then that time he breaks tackles to get us out of our own end when we desperately need it, and the ball pops out :cmon . So frustrating.

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greeneyed
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » April 22, 2019, 10:01 am

Through green eyes: As I saw it

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"They played well, the Broncos, and exactly as I said last week, they would be here to turn their season around. That was a massive effort from the boys to control the game and to get to a lead like that was really healthy. Then getting two points behind, defending it, and getting back into it was a credit to them.

Confidence in each other is something I am feeling from where I sit. They're a lot more mature group this season, they're an easier team to coach because I feel there's individuals that have grown up. When that happens, you don't have to baby blokes as much, when you’ve got a little bit of depth you don't have to pat blokes on the back you can be a little bit more honest with them."


Canberra Raiders coach Ricky Stuart.

Round 6 2019. Canberra Raiders 26 - Brisbane 22. It was nice to walk away from a game against the Brisbane Broncos with a win. It hadn't happened since 2013. The score line was probably a fair reflection of the game. Canberra seemed dominant in the first half, but led by just 10 points at the break. And the Broncos are a team that always seems to be able to come back, to strike with the unpredictable play. They did, with the possession and territory swinging decidedly in favour of the visitors in the second half. But after surrendering the lead, the Raiders were still able to come back and secure the victory.



It wasn't the win by six points that would have seen the Green Machine in first place - on points differential and percentage. The Raiders conceded four tries, a total of 22 points - and the defence didn't always look rock solid. A couple of the tries looked a little too easy - for one try in the second half, the Broncos had four or five players over on the Raiders' left edge. But Canberra still is averaging less than two converted tries per match. They'll probaby still end the Easter weekend with the best defence in the competition. It's hard to do better than that!

The Raiders have not been running first on the competition ladder for 14 years - Round 6 of 2005. So the Green Machine faithful will have to wait a little longer to see that again. But as 2005 showed, it is more important to be top four at the end of the season, than at the start. Canberra finished 14th in 2005. And the Raiders are still in third place, with a couple of points differential away from the competition lead. I'd be surprised if anyone, coach and players included, had been expecting that after six rounds.

Canberra scored five tries, yet remarkably, the team is still not quite at its attacking best. The Broncos produced very quick line speed, and they were good in the ruck. They tested the officials repeatedly on both. So that needs to be taken into account too. The Raiders are playing a more deliberate style in attack, focused on battering the middle, and not getting to the brilliant edge players as often. Those players are still on the leash. But even so, some of the attacking plays from Canberra in Round 6 were audacious, breath taking. More of that later.

One thing that is clearly on Ricky Stuart's mind is that Canberra has played six weeks of very intense football, particularly in defence. They did look tired at times against the Broncos. The little injuries are probably starting to take a bit of a toll. So that is going to take some careful management as they prepare for the boggy Brookvale Oval in Round 7 - and as the season wears on.



Stats that mattered? The Broncos finished ahead in the possession stakes, with 52 per cent of the ball overall. Canberra had enjoyed 55 per cent share of possession in the first half, and more than half the territory - but the Broncos had almost 60 per cent of the ball in the second half. They often had the Raiders trapped at the end of their field. The Broncos had the better completion rate (84 versus 80 per cent), while the errors (Broncos 7, Raiders 6) and penalties conceded (Raiders 7, Broncos 6) were fairly even.

The Broncos made slightly more runs (179-171), running metres (1590-1509), post contact metres (458-423) and line breaks (5-4). The Raiders made slightly more kick return metres (223-211), average metres per set (43.1-41.8), offloads (9-7) and tackle breaks (25-21). The Broncos kicked slightly more than the Raiders (23-21), but Canberra produced more kicking metres (718-689). The Broncos bombed (10-4) and grubbered (7-2) more and forced two line drop outs, the Raiders none.

The Raiders made more tackles (373-322), missed fewer tackles (21-25) and made fewer ineffective tackles (11-20). Canberra had an impressive effective tackle rate at over 92 per cent (just under 88 per cent for the Broncos).

Put all that together, and there was not a lot of difference between the teams - but the Broncos had the advantage in some departments and at some stages of the match. It makes the Raiders' victory all the more impressive. They showed the desperation needed to beat a team that was itself very desperate to get the victory. They consigned the Broncos to a 1 and 5 start to the season, Brisbane's worst in around two decades. If you're a Raiders' fan, you've got to be happy with that.

Memorable moments? The Raiders' tries stick in the memory. First up, Jarrod Croker threw a remarkable around the corner pass to Nick Cotric for the first Green Machine try. It was the sort of pass which leaves you shaking your head, wondering how he did it. John Bateman is credited with one try assist... but surely it was two! For the first of Joey Leilua's tries, instead of passing it... he soccered it to his centre! Then for the second of Leilua's barnstorming tries, Bateman threw one of the best offloads you'll ever see. Bateman went on to score his first try in green, a well deserved reward.

Then how about Ryan Sutton's try, his first for the Raiders. Jack Wighton is credited with no try assists. But he deserved on for a 40/20 and a falcon, then picked up by the Englishman. Maybe it was lucky... but as Jack Gibson used to say, everybody is lucky, you just have to put yourself in position to take advantage of it.

Best performers?

John Bateman. One try, 10 runs for 67 metres, 25 post contact metres, one line break, one line break assist, one try assist, three tackle breaks, one offload, 50 tackles, 96 per cent tackle efficiency. Only negative play was a penalty conceded late in the game for obstructing Alex Glenn.

Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad. 21 runs for 191 metres, 77 kick return metres, 45 post contact metres, seven tackle breaks, seven kicks defused. One of the more impressive things was how he came back from a knee hyper-extension just before half time - and showed the same courage and commitment he had shown in the first 40 minutes. He was in everything.

Joey Leilua. Two tries, 14 runs for 125 metres, 27 post contact metres, two line breaks, six tackle breaks, two offloads. In scoring those two tries, Joey was at his rampaging best.

I'll stick to the top three, but Josh Papalii, Josh Hodgson and Ryan Sutton were also terrific.

Top tacklers: Josh Hodgson 51, John Bateman 50, Josh Papalii 40
Most metres gained: Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 199, Nick Cotric 147, Josh Papalii 131

Papalii, Sia Soliola (112), Ryan Sutton (109) and John Bateman (121) broke the 100m mark in the forwards, while Hodgson, Bateman, Papalii, Ryan Sutton (35), Elliott Whitehead (34) and Sia Soliola (30) made 30 tackles or more.

My player ratings:

Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad 8
Nick Cotric 7
Jarrod Croker 7
Joey Leilua 8
Jordan Rapana 6
Jack Wighton 7
Sam Williams 6
Josh Papalii 7
Josh Hodgson 7
Dunamis Lui 5
John Bateman 8
Elliott Whitehead 6
Ryan Sutton 7

Siliva Havili 6
Hudson Young 4
Sia Soliola 6
JJ Collins 4

Do you agree or disagree with the ratings? Let us know!

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RedRaider
Steve Walters
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by RedRaider » April 22, 2019, 8:33 pm

GE, I know we all look for different things in games, but I think you have underscored Sam and Lui by a point again.

Jack was once again rocks and diamonds. Diamond - his 40/20, rock - his creating the hole for the Broncos first try to Nikorima. Diamond his miss kick which comes back and hits him in the head and allows for Suttons try, rock - his ability to get high on a Sam Williams bomb only bat it back to Alex Glenn (second time this year his bat back is wayward straight to opposition). Diamond - kick which Boyd chooses to put over the sideline, rock - Fifita's try had only NC and JC on the left hand side defending - where was Jack?? Diamond - kick which found touch in the first half, rock - after Sam Williams bomb is dropped by Oates we have a scrum on the Broncos 10 only for Jack to knock on 2nd tackle. Diamond - Jack makes a break around the 68th minute, rock - he loses the ball in the tackle. Yet he gets a 7.

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zim
Gary Belcher
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by zim » April 22, 2019, 8:59 pm

Jack didn't miskick the ball the gap was closed up by nikorima playing at it. If nikorima didn't get his toe to it we score that easily with 4 raiders the only players near it.
I mostly agree with your ratings GE.
Jack was rocks and diamonds but in his diamonds were game changers. Sammy didn't have a bad game but he never really stood up.

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T_R
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by T_R » April 23, 2019, 9:54 am

RedRaider wrote:
April 22, 2019, 8:33 pm
GE, I know we all look for different things in games, but I think you have underscored Sam and Lui by a point again.
How long will this cruel anti-Williams agenda be allowed to continue? He was a 7.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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simo
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by simo » April 23, 2019, 10:26 am

Williams was not a 7. 6 is fair. Luis 5 is a bit harsh.
Most are fairly accurate though and it really highlights that the group as a collective are playing well
Dont delete this GE

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Woodgers
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by Woodgers » April 23, 2019, 3:31 pm

RR I think from memory if you were to analyse where Jack was for that Broncos 2nd try you'll find he was the one that made the cover tackle after the break so was caught at the PTB on the right touchline. It was a great solid tackle too but I knew when I saw where he was and the fact we were already struggling to get back that a simple spread of the ball was going to result in a try without some kind of miracle defensive play from Croker or Cotric.

I too thought Lui was above a 5, he ran the ball up and had a go like every game this year. He's doing his job and getting through decent volume as 2nd fiddle prop.

I think the energy and effort that Hudson Young brought on in the middle to help out his tiring teammates could have earnt him a 5. It was fairly critical to the win.

You could make an argument both ways for Williams, he didn't do much wrong but as I said in the other thread he's very quiet due to the tactics we play IMO.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.

sprintman
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by sprintman » April 23, 2019, 3:37 pm

Not getting the constant anti Lui ratings. I must be missing something

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greeneyed
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » April 23, 2019, 5:16 pm

It’s not anti Lui, he’s reliable, solid, makes no mistakes, but average output. His ratings are consistent with that. Once Tapine is back, I’d certainly move Sutton in at starting prop. He offers a lot more, and has big upside.


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greeneyed
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » April 23, 2019, 5:19 pm

By the way, the stats Beejay just posted in the Williams or Sezer thread are fully consistent with what I’m seeing: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33319&p=1653442#p1653431

Wighton is consistently offering more, but there are downsides for Jack with errors and less creativity. But Wighton is there to run, principally and he’s doing that job well.


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simo
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by simo » April 23, 2019, 5:48 pm

greeneyed wrote:
April 23, 2019, 5:16 pm
It’s not anti Lui, he’s reliable, solid, makes no mistakes, but average output. His ratings are consistent with that. Once Tapine is back, I’d certainly move Sutton in at starting prop. He offers a lot more, and has big upside.


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Id be playing tapine from the bench the way the team is currently going. Great player to bring on to play either middle or edge depending on how the contest is going
Dont delete this GE

RedRaider
Steve Walters
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by RedRaider » April 23, 2019, 8:13 pm

simo wrote:
April 23, 2019, 5:48 pm
greeneyed wrote:
April 23, 2019, 5:16 pm
It’s not anti Lui, he’s reliable, solid, makes no mistakes, but average output. His ratings are consistent with that. Once Tapine is back, I’d certainly move Sutton in at starting prop. He offers a lot more, and has big upside.


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Id be playing tapine from the bench the way the team is currently going. Great player to bring on to play either middle or edge depending on how the contest is going
I agree Simo. He was brought back into the side from the bench last time. If we are looking for further bench impact that is the way I would go, at least in his initial matches back.

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Steve Walters
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by RedRaider » April 23, 2019, 8:17 pm

greeneyed wrote:
April 23, 2019, 5:19 pm
By the way, the stats Beejay just posted in the Williams or Sezer thread are fully consistent with what I’m seeing: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33319&p=1653442#p1653431

Wighton is consistently offering more, but there are downsides for Jack with errors and less creativity. But Wighton is there to run, principally and he’s doing that job well.


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Jack is offering more penalties and errors. That is conceding meters to the opposition. See below some further stats and my opinion.

Jack tops penalties conceded with 7. Closely followed by Hodgson and Horsburgh.

Line break causes for Jack and Sam is 3, with Sam only playing 4 games.

Try causes for Jack is 4 and Sam 2.

This is the link for complete stats
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-p ... =tryCauses
Thanks Beejay, much appreciated. Some rave about Jack's defence and bag out Sam. I simply don't think they are looking at 2019. While Jack makes a lot of running meters his penalties conceded at 7 after 6 rounds and errors 15 after 6 rounds means his net meters made will be far lower. I know he is still adjusting to the role, but errors and penalties conceded are areas he needs to work on. We will soon be up against the Chooks and Bunnies. They will be much harder to defend against if regular penalties and errors are made. Before last weekends round the Chooks had scored 25 tries and the Bunnies 20 tries (Source Big League magazine.)
Giving those sides 'easy possession' is a recipe for match day struggle street imo.

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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: Through green eyes 2019

Post by greeneyed » April 23, 2019, 8:32 pm

Stats from Round 6:

Jack Wighton. 11 runs for 73 metres, 17 post contact metres, two dummy half runs, 19 dummy half metres, 46 receipts, 32 passes, 21 tackles, 91.3 per cent tackle efficiency, two ineffective tackles, nine kicks for 358 metres, one grubber, one 40/20 - which set up a try, two errors, one handling error.

Sam Williams. Two runs for 12 metres, one post contact metre, one tackle break, 38 receipts, 29 passes, 18 tackles, 90 per cent tackle efficiency, one missed tackle, one ineffective tackle, eight kicks, four bombs for 255 metres, one error, one handling error.

I'm pretty comfortable saying that's a 7 and a 6 rating, respectively.

A bit concerning that neither are credited with the try assist or a line break assist. But I think Wighton actually deserved one for the 40/20 which turned the momentum and was critical to winning the game.
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gangrenous
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Through green eyes 2019

Post by gangrenous » April 23, 2019, 8:37 pm

Did Sam play dummy half more than I noticed? How does he have so many more passes than receipts?

Deliberately omitting the stat on Wighton’s ineffective tackles? No penalty stat?

Looking fairly close stats-wise

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