Cap management

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BigPapa
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Cap management

Post by BigPapa » July 29, 2018, 8:48 am

Our salary cap is in all sorts of trouble. Without knowing players actually salaries it's hard to pin point the problem. One thing that is clear is certain players in this team are being overpaid. Which players would we be better off moving on to releive our disgraceful cap situation?

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Re: Cap management

Post by chris83 » July 29, 2018, 9:08 am

Bj i think for starters, we have three centres in wighton bj and croker, bj is too much of a wildcard and probably on big money, id get him out the door first.
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Re: Cap management

Post by Pigman » July 29, 2018, 9:27 am

Probably all of them save for Papalii, Hodgson and maybe Whitehead
Croker too just because he’s probably got the home grown cap discount
They’ll all be overpaid relative to their position and importance
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Prepare the cannon!

LastRaider
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Cap management

Post by LastRaider » July 29, 2018, 9:55 am

Maybe we should just talk about keepers. My list is short though

1. Cotric - $300k
2. Hodgson - $900k
3. Whitehead - $500k
4. Tapine - $600k
5. Papilii - $800k
6. Murchie - $125k
7. Sololia - $200k
Total: $3.42m

The remaining 23 players can be shopped around far as I’m concerned



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Schifty
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Re: Cap management

Post by Schifty » July 29, 2018, 9:59 am

The problem with our salary cap is we relied on some terrible intel about what the cap was going to be.

You can't gamble on something like that.

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Re: Cap management

Post by zilhouse » July 29, 2018, 10:08 am

Schifty wrote:
July 29, 2018, 9:59 am
The problem with our salary cap is we relied on some terrible intel about what the cap was going to be.

You can't gamble on something like that.
It wasnt really terrible intel. It was from the governing body. Like if your boss tells you youre going to get a pay rise you expect to get a pay rise. Because they didnt get the money they had to let Kurt Baptist go. Kurt Baptist wanted to stay but couldn't because the raiders couldn't afford his backhanded contract.

Its what happened next that is the bigger issue. Wighton was great this year while he was playing which ended up being minimal. Is he worth 900 000 a season? Was Austin worth what they offered him the first time? Wasnt it something like 700 000?

You need to ask who is agreeing to these deals on the raiders side.

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Re: Cap management

Post by Roy Rover » July 29, 2018, 10:09 am

LastRaider wrote:Maybe we should just talk about keepers. My list is short though

1. Cotric - $300k
2. Hodgson - $900k
3. Whitehead - $500k
4. Tapine - $600k
5. Papilii - $800k
6. Murchie - $125k
7. Sololia - $200k
Total: $3.42m

The remaining 23 players can be shopped around far as I’m concerned



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Sia would be on more than 200k and no spot for Rapana?




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edwahu
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Re: Cap management

Post by edwahu » July 29, 2018, 10:55 am

It depends on who is on what. My feeling is we are spending far too much on our back 5 and players 14 to 30.

I think BJ is the obvious player we could move on. I love the bloke but he sums up what's wrong with our team.

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Cap management

Post by LastRaider » July 29, 2018, 11:06 am

Roy Rover wrote:
LastRaider wrote:Maybe we should just talk about keepers. My list is short though

1. Cotric - $300k
2. Hodgson - $900k
3. Whitehead - $500k
4. Tapine - $600k
5. Papilii - $800k
6. Murchie - $125k
7. Sololia - $200k
Total: $3.42m

The remaining 23 players can be shopped around far as I’m concerned



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Sia would be on more than 200k and no spot for Rapana?




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Yeah Rapana is borderline for me at the moment. He is obvousily a good player but when we need to find salary cap room I could fill the wing spot with an up and comer.

Anyone have a guess what Sia is on?


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Re: Cap management

Post by -PJ- » July 29, 2018, 11:33 am

Don says the cap is fine...all monies spent.
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Re: Cap management

Post by greeneyed » July 29, 2018, 11:33 am

No way you move on a player like Jordan Rapana. The club has made the right calls on who to move on so far, but I suspect you're right, there needs to be some space created for a top line half... the issue will be which year that is (as I'm not sure when they come on the market)... probably not until 2020.
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Re: Cap management

Post by nemesis » July 29, 2018, 11:52 am

No rapana?? wow

make cap space for who? you think you can just get who ever you want?

man there is some crazy talk on this site
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Re: Cap management

Post by greeneyed » July 29, 2018, 12:02 pm

According to Zero Tackle... five eighths and half backs off contract in 2019:

Five eighth
Blake Ayshford, Te Maire Martin, Ryan Matterson, Corey Norman, Tom Wright

Half back
Luke Brooks, Fa'amanu Brown, Nathan Cleary, Cooper Cronk, Tyson Gamble, Dean Hawkins, Ata Hingano, Trent Hodkinson, Shaun Johnson, Mason Lino, Mitchell Moses, Darren Nicholls, Connor Tracey, Sam Williams

I'll add in full back as well, given Munster is on that list...

Full back
Brad Abbey, Jesse Arthars, Matthew Dufty, Jai Field, Bevan French, Clinton Gutherson, Josh Hoffman, Valentine Holmes, Kurt Mann, Gideon Mosby-Gela, Cameron Munster, Tristan Sailor, Murray Taulagi

Who would you create room for in 2020?

This is the list for 2018... but it seems the Raiders couldn't afford anyone in any case... and the list isn't great...

Full back
Tom Carr, Mason Cerruto, Lachlan Coote, Dale Copley, Nathan Davis, Anthony Don, Jarryd Hayne, Tyrone Phillips, Tyronne Roberts-Davis, Zac Santo, Billy Slater, Dylan Smith, Young Tonumaipea

Five eighth
Alexander Brimson, Josh Cleeland, Lachlan Croker, Kane Elgey, Matt Frawley, Jack Johns, Adam Keighran, Lachlan Lam, Brock Lamb, Benji Marshall, Dean Matterson, Shaun Nona, Curtis Sironen, John Sutton

Half back
Mitch Cornish, Troy Dargan, Pita Godinet, Jackson Hastings, Christian Hazard, Ryley Jacks, Cooper Johns, Kyle Laybutt, Jarome Luai, Soni Luke, Chad O'Donnell, Johnathan Thurston, Billy Walters
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edwahu
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Re: Cap management

Post by edwahu » July 29, 2018, 12:02 pm

It's only three months until we can sign players for 2020, not that long really.

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Re: Cap management

Post by Dr Zaius » July 29, 2018, 12:06 pm

The NRL needs to take a reasonable amount of blame for the salary cap fiasco. What kind of a professional sporting organisation doesn't set the next year's salary cap until the season is over? Players need to be signed. The clubs with the most players off contract would be most effected.
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Re: Cap management

Post by Seiffert82 » July 29, 2018, 12:17 pm

With Toots and Cotric on the books, ditching Leilua is the best thing this club could do on a number of fronts.

Then we can start having a discussion about bringing in a new half to partner Sezer. I'd be happy with Luke Brooks at the right price to be honest. Munster is not a controlling half, and he sounds like a bit of a knob.

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Re: Cap management

Post by edwahu » July 29, 2018, 12:19 pm

Dr Zaius wrote:
July 29, 2018, 12:06 pm
The NRL needs to take a reasonable amount of blame for the salary cap fiasco. What kind of a professional sporting organisation doesn't set the next year's salary cap until the season is over? Players need to be signed. The clubs with the most players off contract would be most effected.
All clubs were told in April last year that the cap would be 9.1 million for 2018. We had spent closer to 10m for this year already by that stage.

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Cap management

Post by LastRaider » July 29, 2018, 12:29 pm

greeneyed wrote:No way you move on a player like Jordan Rapana. The club has made the right calls on who to move on so far, but I suspect you're right, there needs to be some space created for a top line half... the issue will be which year that is (as I'm not sure when they come on the market)... probably not until 2020.
Yeah but GE we need to make sacrifices somewhere. He would be verging on $600k per year soon. The club needs to save money and spend money in key positions not all positions


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Re: Cap management

Post by LastRaider » July 29, 2018, 12:31 pm

Seiffert82 wrote:With Toots and Cotric on the books, ditching Leilua is the best thing this club could do on a number of fronts.

Then we can start having a discussion about bringing in a new half to partner Sezer. I'd be happy with Luke Brooks at the right price to be honest. Munster is not a controlling half, and he sounds like a bit of a knob.
You’ve got to unload toots. He is our equivalent of Moses Mbye for the Bulldogs


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Re: Cap management

Post by Pigman » July 29, 2018, 12:40 pm

Worth noting, people have and continue to overstate the impact of our miscalculation of the salary cap

The reports indicated we had expected it to and budgeted for it to come in around 300k more than it was

300k over 10Mil is 3%
Now if you **** your budget by 3% you deserve to cop some grief about that as an administrator but in this realm of business (i.e sports salary cap budgets), getting that 3% back is very easily managed without losing much.

So that’s bad but it’s not catastrophic,
That matter was probably pretty well handled by releasing Baptiste and Turner.

it’s not the reason we’re in the **** with our cap.

The reason we’re in cap hell is we have Stuart, Mulholland and Furner offering players like Blake Austin 700k a year.
And have guys like Baptiste earning nearly 400k a year if reports were accurate
Last edited by Pigman on July 29, 2018, 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Prepare the cannon!

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Re: Cap management

Post by Roger Kenworthy » July 29, 2018, 1:12 pm

Also a signing like Dunamis Lui on the reported terms is one that'll just prove to be an issue down the line.

At 28 he isn't improving. If it's minimum wage that's okay, but if it's a flat 3yrs that's still a guy that I'd argue would be off the pace in year 2 of that deal using up a spot we could give to a youngster.

I doubt we have competition for his signature. A one year deal with a second year option in the club's favour would be the smarter deal.

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Re: Cap management

Post by Pigman » July 29, 2018, 1:14 pm

Yeah like i said, if thats minimum wage or near enough too, ive got no issue... problem is its very unlikely to be that. A 3 year 550k a year deal is fine, but we're probably giving him 750k
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Prepare the cannon!

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Re: Cap management

Post by Roger Kenworthy » July 29, 2018, 1:36 pm

Pigman wrote:
July 29, 2018, 1:14 pm
Yeah like i said, if thats minimum wage or near enough too, ive got no issue... problem is its very unlikely to be that. A 3 year 550k a year deal is fine, but we're probably giving him 750k
Even on minimum it's a year too long for me. Do we really expect a bidding war for 30 year old Lui for 2021?

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Re: Cap management

Post by -PJ- » July 29, 2018, 1:38 pm

Anyone suggesting we shop JordyRaps around should turn up in my driveway where you'll be slapped.
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Re: Cap management

Post by Pigman » July 29, 2018, 1:44 pm

Roger Kenworthy wrote:
July 29, 2018, 1:36 pm

Even on minimum it's a year too long for me. Do we really expect a bidding war for 30 year old Lui for 2021?
No I suppose not, but if you can lock in a depth forward who you know can do a job and likely to improve (albeit very slightly) given forwards peak around 28-30, at near enough to minimum wage
I’m ok with that

But to your point, you’re far more likely to be trying to convince him to retire or move on in 2 years than you are to be looking at his contract like it’s a bargain
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Prepare the cannon!

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Re: Cap management

Post by Pigman » July 29, 2018, 1:48 pm

-PJ- wrote:
July 29, 2018, 1:38 pm
Anyone suggesting we shop JordyRaps around should turn up in my driveway where you'll be slapped.
Look, I don’t think we should do it, but I also don’t agree that it’s that absurd

If you were taking over the club and wanted a total fresh start, one of the quickest ways to achieve cap space to get players in key positions would be to shop raps

Firstly you’d be able to find a taker and probably get out of paying any frieight
Secondly you can find good cheap reliable wingers
They won’t be game changers and match breakers like Raps, but if you’re going for a scorched earth policy, you probably don’t want that

So I don’t think it’s without merits. Again not something I’d do but it’s not a ridiculous suggestion by any means imo
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Prepare the cannon!

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Re: Cap management

Post by reptar » July 29, 2018, 1:54 pm

-PJ- wrote:Anyone suggesting we shop JordyRaps around should turn up in my driveway where you'll be slapped.
You're home now?
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Re: Cap management

Post by -PJ- » July 29, 2018, 1:59 pm

reptar wrote:
July 29, 2018, 1:54 pm
-PJ- wrote:Anyone suggesting we shop JordyRaps around should turn up in my driveway where you'll be slapped.
You're home now?
Yes I'm home.

But be warned.. I'm putting a large dent in this carton and will take no rubbish.

Come on round..
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Re: Cap management

Post by -PJ- » July 29, 2018, 2:10 pm

Pigman wrote:
July 29, 2018, 1:48 pm
-PJ- wrote:
July 29, 2018, 1:38 pm
Anyone suggesting we shop JordyRaps around should turn up in my driveway where you'll be slapped.
Look, I don’t think we should do it, but I also don’t agree that it’s that absurd

If you were taking over the club and wanted a total fresh start, one of the quickest ways to achieve cap space to get players in key positions would be to shop raps

Firstly you’d be able to find a taker and probably get out of paying any frieight
Secondly you can find good cheap reliable wingers
They won’t be game changers and match breakers like Raps, but if you’re going for a scorched earth policy, you probably don’t want that

So I don’t think it’s without merits. Again not something I’d do but it’s not a ridiculous suggestion by any means imo
Pig...

We blow.
Without Rapana..we don't win a game..ever.
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Re: Cap management

Post by yeh raiders » July 29, 2018, 3:47 pm

You can make a case for moving on from every player in the comp.... that doesn't mean the case is void of being totally ridiculous. e.g. moving Jordan Rapana on before someone like Croker. Twice the player on probably similar coin.
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Re: Cap management

Post by Pigman » July 29, 2018, 5:07 pm

I dont think you could. Make the case for moving on from Nathan Cleary? Kayln Ponga? James Tedesco?
Good luck
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers & Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Prepare the cannon!

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Re: Cap management

Post by LastRaider » July 29, 2018, 5:15 pm

-PJ- wrote:
Pigman wrote:
July 29, 2018, 1:48 pm
-PJ- wrote:
July 29, 2018, 1:38 pm
Anyone suggesting we shop JordyRaps around should turn up in my driveway where you'll be slapped.
Look, I don’t think we should do it, but I also don’t agree that it’s that absurd

If you were taking over the club and wanted a total fresh start, one of the quickest ways to achieve cap space to get players in key positions would be to shop raps

Firstly you’d be able to find a taker and probably get out of paying any frieight
Secondly you can find good cheap reliable wingers
They won’t be game changers and match breakers like Raps, but if you’re going for a scorched earth policy, you probably don’t want that

So I don’t think it’s without merits. Again not something I’d do but it’s not a ridiculous suggestion by any means imo
Pig...

We blow.
Without Rapana..we don't win a game..ever.
Rapa is a great player but lacks discipline. The wing spot is an easily fill with an up and coming full back or centre junior. If the Cap is at the top like Don said and we need to find room for a good half it’s an option. You might be able to shop BJ and Rapa around as a pair

Ready for my slap now


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Re: Cap management

Post by gangrenous » July 29, 2018, 5:57 pm

My mind reads the title as “Crap management”... which actually doesn’t change anything whatsoever...

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Re: Cap management

Post by sprintman » July 29, 2018, 6:07 pm

Don’t like him but if we got Sidemouth we’d attract players.

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Re: Cap management

Post by dubby » July 29, 2018, 6:18 pm

Schifty wrote:The problem with our salary cap is we relied on some terrible intel about what the cap was going to be.

You can't gamble on something like that.
Nailed it, old mate

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