A new Canberra Stadium

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Where would you like a new Canberra Stadium to be built?

Civic
55
82%
Bruce
8
12%
Mitchell
4
6%
 
Total votes: 67

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Seiffert82
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

greeneyed wrote:If the Stadium is to be rebuilt on the present site it needs hotels, commercial premises etc around it. The AIS is in long term decline due to a shift in the model for sports development. I’m not sure that’s been a good thing, but it does allow young athletes to stay at home, which is a good thing. The whole precinct needs redevelopment.
Yes, and a 30,000 seat stadium will never be built in the city. Ever. I'd love to see one there but it will never happen. Too many nearby apartment residents to deal with, major road realignments and demolishing existing infrastructure to get it over the line. Plans are now being approved to build even more apartments across the road from the pool. There are now apartments right up Allara St.

It was hard enough to get lights into Manuka oval, let alone build a massive stadium among what is now a growing residential area. Don't you live in the Kingston area? How do you find the traffic and noise when a big cricket game is on?

So, back in the real world, somebody needs to decide where the best alternative is. There is no existing infrastructure at EPIC or in Molonglo either. There are no ideal options that tick all the boxes, such as a central location, sufficient vacant land and existing infrastructure. If there was, a stadium would have been built years ago.

Build a better stadium at Bruce and then build improved facilities around it. If the AIS precinct is upgraded, there should be more than enough residents in the Bruce/Lawson/Kaleen area to support restaurants and bars, let alone the fact that CIT and Uni of Canberra is also right at the doorstep, so plenty of students to support some nightlife in the area.

I'd love a stadium in the City, but concede it is not possible to build one of the size we really need.
Last edited by Seiffert82 on June 14, 2022, 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gerg
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by gerg »

If it can't be civic I think Woden is the next best option. More central than Bruce or Epic, has enough parking, clubs and restaurants and decent public transport - particularly once he gets his toy tram built.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by BJ »

gergreg wrote:If it can't be civic I think Woden is the next best option. More central than Bruce or Epic, has enough parking, clubs and restaurants and decent public transport - particularly once he gets his toy tram built.
Yep. I think Woden wouldn’t be a bad alternative solution. More space available and an area in dire need of infrastructure. Certainly opportunities to make the most of stage 2 light rail.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

BJ wrote: June 14, 2022, 5:55 pm
gergreg wrote:If it can't be civic I think Woden is the next best option. More central than Bruce or Epic, has enough parking, clubs and restaurants and decent public transport - particularly once he gets his toy tram built.
Yep. I think Woden wouldn’t be a bad alternative solution. More space available and an area in dire need of infrastructure. Certainly opportunities to make the most of stage 2 light rail.
Where abouts in Woden? I'm not sure there's much space available for a 25-30k stadium there either.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yeah, where on earth in Woden would a 30,000 seat stadium fit? Mawson playing fields? The cemetary?

Didn't the government have enough problems expanding the Canberra Hospital into Garran? It took a pandemic for that to be approved.

I don't live in the area. I'm genuinely interested to know if there is enough space for a stadium to be built in Woden, in an area that does not back directly onto residential streets.



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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by gerg »

Edison Park should be big enough.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

gergreg wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:27 pm Edison Park should be big enough.
Would have to shift the cemetery but not impossible.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Botman »

A stadium in woden would suit me quite nicely, however I can’t think of anywhere it would make sense or be feasible

Including Eddison Park, though a stadium I can walk too would be handy so I’m willing to be convinced otherwise :lol:
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Eddison Park is a smaller site than the existing stadium.

Can you imagine anyone approving a sports stadium next to a cemetary?

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:56 pm Eddison Park is a smaller site than the existing stadium.

Can you imagine anyone approving a sports stadium next to a cemetary?

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I also cant imagine the appetite for a new stadium is enough to consider digging up coffins and moving them either.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Wouldn't Phillip Oval be the place to build it? Not sure if a 30,000 seat stadium fits on the site. But that's adjacent to the town centre and a short walk from the interchange. The tram will go right past it. It is used for cricket and AFL now... but not sure why Manuka doesn't serve those needs. It is owned by the ACT Government.

By the way, in response to a question from Seiffert, I am a Kingston resident and Manuka is about 500 metres away. The lights are not an issue here, but the traffic and road closures are. That's why I wouldn't want to see the capacity of it grow. It was basically a village green and it's now turned into a boutique sized stadium. It's about as big as it can get, given the character of the neighbourhood.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Botman wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:57 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:56 pm Eddison Park is a smaller site than the existing stadium.

Can you imagine anyone approving a sports stadium next to a cemetary?

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I also cant imagine the appetite for a new stadium is enough to consider digging up coffins and moving them either.
Pretty sure a cemetery was shifted to build Lang Park
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

greeneyed wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:59 pm Wouldn't Phillip Oval be the place to build it? Not sure if a 30,000 seat stadium fits on the site. But that's adjacent to the town centre and a short walk from the interchange. The tram will go right past it.
I don't think that space would be big enough to fit a 25-30k stadium
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Raiders_Pat wrote: June 14, 2022, 7:05 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:59 pm Wouldn't Phillip Oval be the place to build it? Not sure if a 30,000 seat stadium fits on the site. But that's adjacent to the town centre and a short walk from the interchange. The tram will go right past it.
I don't think that space would be big enough to fit a 25-30k stadium
It fits an oval now, there's car parking about there too. The feasiblity studies didn't look at it... would love to know if it was even considered.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

greeneyed wrote: June 14, 2022, 7:08 pm
Raiders_Pat wrote: June 14, 2022, 7:05 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:59 pm Wouldn't Phillip Oval be the place to build it? Not sure if a 30,000 seat stadium fits on the site. But that's adjacent to the town centre and a short walk from the interchange. The tram will go right past it.
I don't think that space would be big enough to fit a 25-30k stadium
It fits an oval now, there's car parking about there too. The feasiblity studies didn't look at it... would love to know if it was even considered.
True but that's without stands all the way around and the space is about the same size as the civic pool site looking at a map. Might be able to jam one in there but I think it would be a very tight squeeze and they would still need to figure out where to put parking for the stadium. There would be enough room using Eddison Park and some of the cemetery though. And my guess is the area wasn't even considered.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Botman »

Raiders_Pat wrote: June 14, 2022, 7:04 pm
Botman wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:57 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:56 pm Eddison Park is a smaller site than the existing stadium.

Can you imagine anyone approving a sports stadium next to a cemetary?

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I also cant imagine the appetite for a new stadium is enough to consider digging up coffins and moving them either.
Pretty sure a cemetery was shifted to build Lang Park
Oh im not saying it's not possible, moving the cemetry can be certainly be done, but this ACT GOV isnt very serious about building this stadium at all... i dont think a site that will require them to shift a cemetry is going to improve their willingness.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by gerg »

Edison Park is a very decent size and I don't think moving a cemetery is necessary, or a very good idea. It's a pretty big piece of land and there is enough parking within easy walking distance so there isn't the need for a huge amount of parking right at the stadium.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Botman wrote: June 14, 2022, 7:21 pm
Raiders_Pat wrote: June 14, 2022, 7:04 pm
Botman wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:57 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:56 pm Eddison Park is a smaller site than the existing stadium.

Can you imagine anyone approving a sports stadium next to a cemetary?

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk
I also cant imagine the appetite for a new stadium is enough to consider digging up coffins and moving them either.
Pretty sure a cemetery was shifted to build Lang Park
Oh im not saying it's not possible, moving the cemetry can be certainly be done, but this ACT GOV isnt very serious about building this stadium at all... i dont think a site that will require them to shift a cemetry is going to improve their willingness.
You're right, ACT Gov has zero vision for this type of stuff. Hadn't considered Woden an option until I saw it mentioned here today but I now think it's a better option than Bruce 2 or Mitchell (which are actually more convenient for me as I live in west belco). Some graves may need to be shifted but in the long run it will pay off - accessible by tram, close to the town centre with restaurants and bars, more "central" than Mitchell and arguably Bruce.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Riaan »

Woden :roflmao :roflmao

Might as well keep it in Bruce. Has anyone suggesting Woden actually been there within the last 5 years? Just no
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

The population centre of Canberra was Yarralumla a few years ago, but it’s been moving north. And will probably be on the north bank of the lake, opposite, in the not too distant future. I’m not sure Woden is any more central than Bruce. Mitchell is ridiculous as a location and that seems to have been recognised.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: June 14, 2022, 8:05 pm The population centre of Canberra was Yarralumla a few years ago, but it’s been moving north. And will probably be on the north bank of the lake, opposite, in the not too distant future. I’m not sure Woden is any more central than Bruce. Mitchell is ridiculous as a location and that seems to have been recognised.
That's all well and good, but i live on the south
And you're not really taking that into account with this post. Re-consider your position plz.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: June 14, 2022, 8:08 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 14, 2022, 8:05 pm The population centre of Canberra was Yarralumla a few years ago, but it’s been moving north. And will probably be on the north bank of the lake, opposite, in the not too distant future. I’m not sure Woden is any more central than Bruce. Mitchell is ridiculous as a location and that seems to have been recognised.
That's all well and good, but i live on the south
And you're not really taking that into account with this post. Re-consider your position plz.
We know the current government hates doing anything for the south too. Woden is probably a bit better for me in terms of travel. Bruce would be better for parking though.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by gerg »

Riaan wrote:Woden :roflmao :roflmao

Might as well keep it in Bruce. Has anyone suggesting Woden actually been there within the last 5 years? Just no
There is basically two roads into Bruce. Whenever we get a decent crowd there's traffic jams for 5km up the GDE. And then trying to get out of the place is a nightmare. There are no bars, restaurants or accommodation at Bruce. There is nothing there.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Badger17 »

BJ wrote: June 14, 2022, 8:30 am
Badger17 wrote:
BJ wrote: June 6, 2022, 2:39 pm I’ve often wondered whether the second best place for the stadium near the city would be around the car parks to the west of Commonwealth park. Seems to be more room than on Parks Way and would have less impact on the rest of the city during construction.

I’ve drawn a 180m straight line to give a perspective of the size and space. I’d still prefer the Civic pool site.

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The car parks are also part of Commonwealth Park, and as such are on land managed by the National Capital Authority. In other words you'd need the Feds permission to build there, and I highly, highly doubt they'd give it.

If you tried to build there you'd probably also create a bureaucratic nightmare similar to the problems we have with GIO being owned by the Sports Commission, and incite a bunch of very powerful nimbys because of it's effect on Floriade and the visage of the lake and Parliamentary Triangle.

In other words it's almost certainly a no go. If we're being honest with ourselves Civic as a whole is almost certainly a no go at this point.
I believe the civic pool also includes NCA land.
Nope.

https://www.nca.gov.au/environment/admi ... ional-land
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Badger17 »

greeneyed wrote: June 14, 2022, 8:05 pm The population centre of Canberra was Yarralumla a few years ago, but it’s been moving north. And will probably be on the north bank of the lake, opposite, in the not too distant future. I’m not sure Woden is any more central than Bruce. Mitchell is ridiculous as a location and that seems to have been recognised.
The site doesn't need to be precisely geographically central so long as it's easily accessible by both public and private transport and has, or at least could have, all the amenities you'd expect. In other words, though it wouldn't be perfect you could build it in any of the town centres in Canberra and it'd more or less do the job.

In saying that I highly doubt that there's room for a 30k seater in Woden anymore, especially with all the planned develop there. Maybe if you could shift AFL Canberra and ACT Cricket out of the oval and build it there, but realistically if it was going to happen in Phillip then it needed to be planned for roughly a decade ago.

Theoretically that leaves Belco, Gungahlin, Tuggeranong, and arguably a few other places, all of which have their own positives and negatives.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by -TW- »

They're not moving anyone from Phillip, especially after both sports have invested millions into that complex.

There's a perfectly good area at Southwell Park, use that
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by BJ »

Badger17 wrote:
BJ wrote: June 14, 2022, 8:30 am
Badger17 wrote:
BJ wrote: June 6, 2022, 2:39 pm I’ve often wondered whether the second best place for the stadium near the city would be around the car parks to the west of Commonwealth park. Seems to be more room than on Parks Way and would have less impact on the rest of the city during construction.

I’ve drawn a 180m straight line to give a perspective of the size and space. I’d still prefer the Civic pool site.

Image
The car parks are also part of Commonwealth Park, and as such are on land managed by the National Capital Authority. In other words you'd need the Feds permission to build there, and I highly, highly doubt they'd give it.

If you tried to build there you'd probably also create a bureaucratic nightmare similar to the problems we have with GIO being owned by the Sports Commission, and incite a bunch of very powerful nimbys because of it's effect on Floriade and the visage of the lake and Parliamentary Triangle.

In other words it's almost certainly a no go. If we're being honest with ourselves Civic as a whole is almost certainly a no go at this point.
I believe the civic pool also includes NCA land.
Nope.

https://www.nca.gov.au/environment/admi ... ional-land
Are you sure it’s a no? The map you provide shows Parkes Way as NCA land and they want to move Parkes Way for a Civic Stadium at the Pool site.

Also, The Sports Minister said on radio that they’d have to engage and get agreement with the NCA around a stadium on the civic pool site.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Badger17 »

BJ wrote: June 15, 2022, 11:46 am
Badger17 wrote:
BJ wrote: June 14, 2022, 8:30 am
Badger17 wrote:
BJ wrote: June 6, 2022, 2:39 pm I’ve often wondered whether the second best place for the stadium near the city would be around the car parks to the west of Commonwealth park. Seems to be more room than on Parks Way and would have less impact on the rest of the city during construction.

I’ve drawn a 180m straight line to give a perspective of the size and space. I’d still prefer the Civic pool site.

Image
The car parks are also part of Commonwealth Park, and as such are on land managed by the National Capital Authority. In other words you'd need the Feds permission to build there, and I highly, highly doubt they'd give it.

If you tried to build there you'd probably also create a bureaucratic nightmare similar to the problems we have with GIO being owned by the Sports Commission, and incite a bunch of very powerful nimbys because of it's effect on Floriade and the visage of the lake and Parliamentary Triangle.

In other words it's almost certainly a no go. If we're being honest with ourselves Civic as a whole is almost certainly a no go at this point.
I believe the civic pool also includes NCA land.
Nope.

https://www.nca.gov.au/environment/admi ... ional-land
Are you sure it’s a no? The map you provide shows Parkes Way as NCA land and they want to move Parkes Way for a Civic Stadium at the Pool site.

Also, The Sports Minister said on radio that they’d have to engage and get agreement with the NCA around a stadium on the civic pool site.
There's a massive difference between moving Parkes Way a little bit south and building over a significant part of the western side of Commonwealth Park. I'd never say never, but realistically it's not going to happen.

If it was even just seriously discussed it'd awaken a bunch of very powerful nimbys, which would be a big hurdle as well.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by BJ »

Badger17 wrote:
BJ wrote: June 15, 2022, 11:46 am
Badger17 wrote:
BJ wrote: June 14, 2022, 8:30 am
Badger17 wrote: The car parks are also part of Commonwealth Park, and as such are on land managed by the National Capital Authority. In other words you'd need the Feds permission to build there, and I highly, highly doubt they'd give it.

If you tried to build there you'd probably also create a bureaucratic nightmare similar to the problems we have with GIO being owned by the Sports Commission, and incite a bunch of very powerful nimbys because of it's effect on Floriade and the visage of the lake and Parliamentary Triangle.

In other words it's almost certainly a no go. If we're being honest with ourselves Civic as a whole is almost certainly a no go at this point.
I believe the civic pool also includes NCA land.
Nope.

https://www.nca.gov.au/environment/admi ... ional-land
Are you sure it’s a no? The map you provide shows Parkes Way as NCA land and they want to move Parkes Way for a Civic Stadium at the Pool site.

Also, The Sports Minister said on radio that they’d have to engage and get agreement with the NCA around a stadium on the civic pool site.
There's a massive difference between moving Parkes Way a little bit south and building over a significant part of the western side of Commonwealth Park. I'd never say never, but realistically it's not going to happen.

If it was even just seriously discussed it'd awaken a bunch of very powerful nimbys, which would be a big hurdle as well.
If you think it’s nigh on impossible to build on NCA land then I’ve got some horse paddocks at Curtin to sell you.

I never said it would be easy, just that it was a nearby alternative option with more available space.

As I’ve been saying for years anyway, it’s a moot point because the ACT government only floats a new Civic stadium before elections and then after winning office comes up with excuses on why they can’t deliver on their promise. Firstly it was Mr Fluffy, then it was Light Rail stage 1, now it’s the pandemic.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

gergreg wrote:
Riaan wrote:Woden :roflmao :roflmao

Might as well keep it in Bruce. Has anyone suggesting Woden actually been there within the last 5 years? Just no
There is basically two roads into Bruce. Whenever we get a decent crowd there's traffic jams for 5km up the GDE. And then trying to get out of the place is a nightmare. There are no bars, restaurants or accommodation at Bruce. There is nothing there.
They are building more and more residential areas in Bruce and around the AIS as we speak. The stadium is bordered by a University and the CIT.

The only reason there are no facilities and inadequate road access around the current stadium is because nobody is investing in it, because its future is uncertain!

The fundamentals are actually there for it to be a perfect location for a sports precinct. It's not directly backing onto residences, there is tons of new development in the nearby suburbs, there is a growing student population nearby...and there is actual space that doesn't require you to move dead people or major arterial roads.

I'll eat my hat if decent operators aren't willing to establish new bars and restaurants near a brand new stadium and a growing University. They obviously aren't there now because nobody has a clue whether Bruce Stadium will be abandoned.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Oh, and nobody will be building a rectangular stadium where the AFL ground is in Woden.

C'mon now. Are we really advocating pulling down one perfectly functional facility to build something else?

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Last edited by Seiffert82 on June 17, 2022, 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by BJ »

I agree with Seiffert82 on the issue around the potential to boost things around the Bruce precinct. It’s a valid point he makes.

Whilst it’s impossible for Bruce to ever overtake Civic for jobs, people, restaurants and facilities etc. there is certainly scope for improvement in the Bruce precinct.

The key questions for Urban Planners would be:

Where would the overall cost benefit of renewal sit between a Civic or Bruce stadium? (My guess is both higher benefits and higher costs for a Civic site).

Would boosting Bruce have a negative economic impact on the relatively nearby Belconnen town centre?

Will the ongoing rise in on-line learning impact student numbers around university campuses?

Is there more financial benefit for the ACT government to use the AIS land primarily for new housing instead of the stadium which opens up the ability to attract annual rates payments from residents?

Woden and Natex should also be added to this analysis. Although Natex has already proven a dud option according to experts.

Etc, etc
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by gerg »

Why would investors base their business model on revenue from 11 home games a year? While takings from those 11 days would be pretty damn good it's hardly something to bankroll your business. Mind you I'm not a business owner though.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

gergreg wrote:Why would investors base their business model on revenue from 11 home games a year? While takings from those 11 days would be pretty damn good it's hardly something to bankroll your business. Mind you I'm not a business owner though.
Umm, I know we're Raider-centric here, but a new stadium not only hosts games for the Raiders and Brumbies, but also opens us to representative fixtures, soccer, concerts and whatever else the adjoining facilities brings.

My point about the universities and CIT is that a good bar or restaurant will also attract patrons irrespective of the stadium, if the location is good and the precinct is properly developed as a place to go.

People can keep on looking for unicorns if they like. The civic pool site is not big enough, road access is a nightmare for office workers let alone a crowd of 30,000 and the residents are too close. I work right beside it, I just can't see it happening. It would be a logistical nightmare.

There are no magical sites anywhere that provide swathes of open land, adequate road access, public transport hubs and parking, established catering facilities and is also far enough away from residents that noise and light complaints are not a factor. It just doesn't exist.

Oh and it has to be central too - inner north or south only, or the fans won't come...



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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by gerg »

Those leather elbow patch repair businesses and RM Williams stockists will be scrambling for retail space at Bruce to take advantage of the brumbies 5k crowds. I googled their crowd averages and there was a lot of TBA, when they should be TETP (too embarrassing to publish).
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