maybe we wouldnt have problems if they didnt fly planes into buildings and detonate bombs in mass crowds of innocent peoplebeetlejuice wrote:also helps that the boat people are from the same ehtnic background as what has become the ethnic target of the decade by australian society.Schifty wrote:There are more illegal immigrants who arrived here by plane than boat..
This being people who came for a 'holiday' and then do a runner.. Obviously if they can afford a plane ticket and get a tourist visa to begin with they were originally in a much better situation than people who flea their homeland, and are willing to spend weeks in deplorable conditions to avoid being killed by a bunch of psychopaths..
But "boat people" are much easier targets..
Also "plane people" is much harder to use in headlines and start fear campaigns with..
The Politics Thread 2009
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Re: The Politics Thread
- Northern Raider
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Re: The Politics Thread
There are bucket loads of countries between Australia and the places these people are fleeing from. Why do they bypass all those to come here? If their priroity is to escape persecution in their homeland then surely they cannot be selective about their destination. Once they are out they should be happy. Not getting rescued from sinking ships half way then going on hungers strike till we let the complete their voyage or presenting tearful pleas from little girls to try and make us fold.
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Re: The Politics Thread
Because Rudd gives them a sweet deal if they make it hereNorthern Raider wrote:There are bucket loads of countries between Australia and the places these people are fleeing from. Why do they bypass all those to come here? If their priroity is to escape persecution in their homeland then surely they cannot be selective about their destination. Once they are out they should be happy. Not getting rescued from sinking ships half way then going on hungers strike till we let the complete their voyage or presenting tearful pleas from little girls to try and make us fold.
BTW on a slightly related note, we started a guy at work today on the machines who spent time at Christmas island... nice chap from what i could tell, which is not much given he has terrible english... no doubt my company is paying him absolute peanuts to stack boxes, bloke didnt stop smiling all day, even when we were laughin at the poor fool for trying to operate a pallet jack... looked like he was trying to root the bleeding thing
yep, slow work day
Re: The Politics Thread
the fact many fly to Indo and get boats from there shows it's not only about escaping persecution, they needlessly risk theirs and their childrens lives by trying to get to Australia when they have already escaped the dangers at homeNorthern Raider wrote:There are bucket loads of countries between Australia and the places these people are fleeing from. Why do they bypass all those to come here? If their priroity is to escape persecution in their homeland then surely they cannot be selective about their destination. Once they are out they should be happy. Not getting rescued from sinking ships half way then going on hungers strike till we let the complete their voyage or presenting tearful pleas from little girls to try and make us fold.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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- Brett Mullins
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Re: The Politics Thread
I've read most of the arguments about humanity and how greatful they are, how good they are to work with and so on. But my patients is wearing thin with the people who won't get off the Oceanic Viking, I say tell them to get off in Indonesia or we take you back to Sri Lanka. It's one thing to make it into Australian waters and be taken to Christmas Island its another to make a call for help when in Indo waters and in good faith the Australian authorities pick them up only to be held to ransom so to speak. They caught the wrong boat and the captain of the boat played the wrong hand.
I don't have a problem when you get middle eastern people migrating to a Western country and wanting to keep all their values, my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
yes they have nice food and I chose middle east because these are some of the boat people that have come.
I don't have a problem when you get middle eastern people migrating to a Western country and wanting to keep all their values, my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
yes they have nice food and I chose middle east because these are some of the boat people that have come.
''It's probably the greatest collection of brain explosions ever been created in a game of first-grade football,'' McIntyre said.
- Sterlk
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Re: The Politics Thread
marky mark wrote:my patients is wearing thin
*shudder*
Re: The Politics Thread
That assumes that there is a great difference between the two. I would argue that basically all humans have essentially the same set of values - I mean, the ten commandments can basically be summarised as 'don't be a dick', and I think all people generally aspire to that regardless of religion. Its only Islamic extremists that make it seem like there is a huge gulf between the two, just like Christian extremists.marky mark wrote:I my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
- Sterlk
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Re: The Politics Thread
Just saw that John Howard got a shoe thrown at him like Bush did, apparantly it was a pretty pathetic throw and the shoe didn't even get close.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 732599.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 732599.htm
- Northern Raider
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Re: The Politics Thread
Always makes me think of thisSterlk wrote:Just saw that John Howard got a shoe thrown at him like Bush did, apparantly it was a pretty pathetic throw and the shoe didn't even get close.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 732599.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D5oKEVqQJg
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Re: The Politics Thread
Yes and no, i think the cause behind the Cronulla riot is an example of when cultures can clash, 2nd generations not fitting in with societyMichael wrote:That assumes that there is a great difference between the two. I would argue that basically all humans have essentially the same set of values - I mean, the ten commandments can basically be summarised as 'don't be a dick', and I think all people generally aspire to that regardless of religion. Its only Islamic extremists that make it seem like there is a huge gulf between the two, just like Christian extremists.marky mark wrote:I my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Re: The Politics Thread
Wait - you think that the Muslims were more to blame for the Cronulla riots? Ok sure, they beat up a lifeguard, which is obviously a terrible thing to do, but a pretty isolated incident. And thousands of 'Australians' responded in the most disgusting way possible - seriously, that was the worst thing I've seen in my lifetime.manbush wrote:Yes and no, i think the cause behind the Cronulla riot is an example of when cultures can clash, 2nd generations not fitting in with societyMichael wrote:That assumes that there is a great difference between the two. I would argue that basically all humans have essentially the same set of values - I mean, the ten commandments can basically be summarised as 'don't be a dick', and I think all people generally aspire to that regardless of religion. Its only Islamic extremists that make it seem like there is a huge gulf between the two, just like Christian extremists.marky mark wrote:I my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
Re: The Politics Thread
With all due respect mate, Muslim gangs had handed out a number of beatings, the life guard was simply the last straw. Its not like one bloke got bashed and everyone got up in arms about it. Muslim gangs had been terrorising the area and its locals for years. Does that excuse the disgusting actions by the mob? No. But it was hardly an isolated incident of innocent people being bashed by muslims in the Cronulla area. Or vise verca for that matterMichael wrote:Wait - you think that the Muslims were more to blame for the Cronulla riots? Ok sure, they beat up a lifeguard, which is obviously a terrible thing to do, but a pretty isolated incident. And thousands of 'Australians' responded in the most disgusting way possible - seriously, that was the worst thing I've seen in my lifetime.manbush wrote:Yes and no, i think the cause behind the Cronulla riot is an example of when cultures can clash, 2nd generations not fitting in with societyMichael wrote:That assumes that there is a great difference between the two. I would argue that basically all humans have essentially the same set of values - I mean, the ten commandments can basically be summarised as 'don't be a dick', and I think all people generally aspire to that regardless of religion. Its only Islamic extremists that make it seem like there is a huge gulf between the two, just like Christian extremists.marky mark wrote:I my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
Tensions had been boiling between the two for YEARS prior to the riot
- Northern Raider
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Re: The Politics Thread
That was my take on it to.Raider_69 wrote:With all due respect mate, Muslim gangs had handed out a number of beatings, the life guard was simply the last straw. Its like one bloke got bashed and everyone got up in arms about it. Muslim gangs had been terrorising the area and its locals for years. Does that excuse the disgusting actions by the mob? No. But it was hardly an isolated incident of innocent people being bashed by muslims in the Cronulla area. Or vise verca for that matterMichael wrote:Wait - you think that the Muslims were more to blame for the Cronulla riots? Ok sure, they beat up a lifeguard, which is obviously a terrible thing to do, but a pretty isolated incident. And thousands of 'Australians' responded in the most disgusting way possible - seriously, that was the worst thing I've seen in my lifetime.manbush wrote:Yes and no, i think the cause behind the Cronulla riot is an example of when cultures can clash, 2nd generations not fitting in with societyMichael wrote:That assumes that there is a great difference between the two. I would argue that basically all humans have essentially the same set of values - I mean, the ten commandments can basically be summarised as 'don't be a dick', and I think all people generally aspire to that regardless of religion. Its only Islamic extremists that make it seem like there is a huge gulf between the two, just like Christian extremists.marky mark wrote:I my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
Tensions had been boiling between the two for YEARS prior to the riot
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Re: The Politics Thread
Michael i wasnt saying they were more to blame, but their actions over a sustained period was the reason the riot broke out, they had had enough, they chose the wrong option obviously, but something had to be done. The point was some 2nd, 3rd generation immigrants who feel out of place in our society due to a clash of cultures, usually from lower socio economic backgrounds, feel victimised and lash out. (69 also had been a lot of trouble with how they were treating white women on the beaches)
Out of interest did anyone else listen to the police frequency during it, some of the **** was insane, lol and the Leb rap that came out after it
Out of interest did anyone else listen to the police frequency during it, some of the **** was insane, lol and the Leb rap that came out after it
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
- glassandahalf
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Re: The Politics Thread
Can I just quickly interject to say that they were gangs of middle eastern youths that were accused of starting the ruckus, not gangs of muslim youths. There are a large percentage of them who are religiously Christian, and any of them parading around those beaches causing the trouble were most certainly not acting with their faith as a primary adjective.Raider_69 wrote: With all due respect mate, Muslim gangs had handed out a number of beatings, the life guard was simply the last straw.
It would be wrong to have labelled the rioters as Ignorant Vigilate Christians just because they were white. Ignorant Vigilante Youths so much more appropriate.
____________________
Also, anyone that thinks the Australian government gives a "sweet deal" to asylum seekers has particularly low ideals as to what a sweet deal is.
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-- Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)
Re: The Politics Thread
Fair call mateglassandahalf wrote:Can I just quickly interject to say that they were gangs of middle eastern youths that were accused of starting the ruckus, not gangs of muslim youths. There are a large percentage of them who are religiously Christian, and any of them parading around those beaches causing the trouble were most certainly not acting with their faith as a primary adjective.Raider_69 wrote: With all due respect mate, Muslim gangs had handed out a number of beatings, the life guard was simply the last straw.
It would be wrong to have labelled the rioters as Ignorant Vigilate Christians just because they were white. Ignorant Vigilante Youths so much more appropriate.
100% right, bad choice of words from my end
Re: The Politics Thread
Reading how Englands climate change research centres computers got hacked the other day, found emails from leading climate change experts stating how that can't prove climate change is real and how they're prepared to change data to suit their arguement. This is the problem when governments are only prepared to fund research that suits their point of view, scientists integrity goes out the windows for the almighty dollar and we are fed ideas as facts.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
- Northern Raider
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Re: The Politics Thread
I heard some reports on it. Does it mean Penny Wong will retreat to the back bench if her ministerial portfolio is proven to be based on a myth?
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Re: The Politics Thread
That's the thing, governments have already invested too much time and money on it, even if they discover its a myth I doubt they'll ever admit itNorthern Raider wrote:I heard some reports on it. Does it mean Penny Wong will retreat to the back bench if her ministerial portfolio is proven to be based on a myth?
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
- Northern Raider
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Re: The Politics Thread
Nobody is biting yet. A bit dissapointing given its a slow day on the GH. I've been away for away for 4 days then logged back in to find there is nothing new on the entire forum. Was hoping a bit of spirited debate in the politics thread could spice things up but doesn't seem to be happening.
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Re: The Politics Thread
I wasnt after a bite for once, but its a perfect example of why you cant trust government funded researchers, they are paid to find answers that fit in with what the government wants to hear, not to find out the actual facts.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
- gangrenous
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Re: The Politics Thread
I think you might want to add "in politically sensitive areas" to your sentence and even then it's a bit of a rough generalisation.manbush wrote:its a perfect example of why you cant trust government funded researchers, they are paid to find answers that fit in with what the government wants to hear, not to find out the actual facts.
Re: The Politics Thread
gangrenous wrote:I think you might want to add "in politically sensitive areas" to your sentence and even then it's a bit of a rough generalisation.manbush wrote:its a perfect example of why you cant trust government funded researchers, they are paid to find answers that fit in with what the government wants to hear, not to find out the actual facts.
Good point mate, some do great work, but on the polical issues i dont trust a word, climate change, drugs etc with good reason
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
- yeh raiders
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Re: The Politics Thread
Fingers crossed Turnbullshlt is booted out today
- yeh raiders
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Re: The Politics Thread
Damn he's retaining his leadership
- Northern Raider
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Re: The Politics Thread
A bit pointless for the coalition to boot Turnbull at this stage. they are not going to win the next election so let him be the sacrificial lamb for the time being. They can decide who they want to be the next prime minister prior to the following election when the country is feeling the pain of $100b of government debt.
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Re: The Politics Thread
Should have been Dr Nelson and Turnbull for our next PM... Libs screwed the pooch and brought in turnbull too early. Should have ridden out the storm with the DocNorthern Raider wrote:A bit pointless for the coalition to boot Turnbull at this stage. they are not going to win the next election so let him be the sacrificial lamb for the time being. They can decide who they want to be the next prime minister prior to the following election when the country is feeling the pain of $100b of government debt.
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- David Grant
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Re: The Politics Thread
Imo Turnbull is the most credible politician in Canberra,because he isnt a party hack.yeh raiders wrote:Damn he's retaining his leadership
A self made man who is giving back to his country.
Personally i reckon he would be an outstanding PM.
- yeh raiders
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Re: The Politics Thread
I admire his work as a businessmen, however i'm more concerned with this ETS Tax rubbish.mick63 wrote:Imo Turnbull is the most credible politician in Canberra,because he isnt a party hack.yeh raiders wrote:Damn he's retaining his leadership
A self made man who is giving back to his country.
Personally i reckon he would be an outstanding PM.
Re: The Politics Thread
The Italian Prime Minister allegedly bedded 20 prostitutes in one night...
Really puts Mike Rann's efforts to shame.
Really puts Mike Rann's efforts to shame.
Re: The Politics Thread
Well said, totally agree. It's all over for him though, sadly.mick63 wrote:Imo Turnbull is the most credible politician in Canberra,because he isnt a party hack.yeh raiders wrote:Damn he's retaining his leadership
A self made man who is giving back to his country.
Personally i reckon he would be an outstanding PM.
- Northern Raider
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Re: The Politics Thread
You can be a credible politician or a successful one. Not both.thickos wrote:Well said, totally agree. It's all over for him though, sadly.mick63 wrote:Imo Turnbull is the most credible politician in Canberra,because he isnt a party hack.yeh raiders wrote:Damn he's retaining his leadership
A self made man who is giving back to his country.
Personally i reckon he would be an outstanding PM.
I'm inclined to agree with the coalition rebels on the issue however. I still don't understand why Australia needs an ETS in place prior to Copenhagen and I still don't know how an ETS is supposed to reduce carbon emissions.
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- yeh raiders
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Re: The Politics Thread
Pretty sure it a system by which the amount of GEE a company can emit, is based on permits. These permits can be sold/traded from company to company allowing for differing amounts of carbon to be produced. How the heck can you measure the amount of carbon produced from company to company
It's guaranteed to cost jobs, for little (if any ) positive impact on climate.
It's guaranteed to cost jobs, for little (if any ) positive impact on climate.
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- David Grant
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Re: The Politics Thread
Bob Brown and Ted Mack come to mind as successful and credible politicians.Don Dunstan and Wayne Goss also.Northern Raider wrote:You can be a credible politician or a successful one. Not both.thickos wrote:Well said, totally agree. It's all over for him though, sadly.mick63 wrote:Imo Turnbull is the most credible politician in Canberra,because he isnt a party hack.yeh raiders wrote:Damn he's retaining his leadership
A self made man who is giving back to his country.
Personally i reckon he would be an outstanding PM.
I'm inclined to agree with the coalition rebels on the issue however. I still don't understand why Australia needs an ETS in place prior to Copenhagen and I still don't know how an ETS is supposed to reduce carbon emissions.
But it seems that unless you come through via the party machine your supporters are gunna run for cover the first sign of trouble.
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Re: The Politics Thread
Glorified tax IMO. Companies that produce carbon emissions have to pay a fee based on the volume they produce. I fail to see how that is going to affect global warming.yeh raiders wrote:Pretty sure it a system by which the amount of GEE a company can emit, is based on permits. These permits can be sold/traded from company to company allowing for differing amounts of carbon to be produced. How the heck can you measure the amount of carbon produced from company to company
It's guaranteed to cost jobs, for little (if any ) positive impact on climate.
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