The Politics Thread 2024

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gangrenous
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by gangrenous »

Former treasurer Josh Frydenberg is reportedly considering a return to federal politics

Josh Frydenberg, the of the biggest losers of the 2022 federal election is reportedly considering a comeback to Canberra. Following the announcement of the proposed redrawing of boundaries that pushes more Liberal voters into Kooyong, reports are emerging that he is considering a return .

Read more: https://www.news.com.au/national/federa ... 41590fef05

Well, you can’t trust news.com as far as you can throw it. But if true - What a reason to get back into politics!

Heaven forbid he look to respond to the electorate and change. No, he’ll come back if things can be rejigged to get him back in by cramming in more one party voters Image

Displacing a young woman at that! Not that I know where the Liberals are finding a 31 year old woman that thinks joining them is a good idea…
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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If he kept his seat, he'd be opposition leader and the Libs would be more moderate. Not a bad thing.

They seem to have given up on the teal seats and going further and further to the right. Not a lot Frydenberg can do about that without being in the party room.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by papabear »

Dr Zaius wrote: June 2, 2024, 7:12 pm If he kept his seat, he'd be opposition leader and the Libs would be more moderate. Not a bad thing.

They seem to have given up on the teal seats and going further and further to the right. Not a lot Frydenberg can do about that without being in the party room.


The hard right and hard left find a moderate more offensive than someone who believes in another political persuasion.
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gangrenous
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by gangrenous »

What evidence is there of that?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by The Nickman »

I'm watching the testimony of Anthony Fauci before the House Republicans and quite Frankly, it's absolutely disgusting the way they're carrying on, particularly Marjorie Taylor-EDIT
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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Post by gangrenous »

Not altogether the same thing I’d argue. That’s proposing there’s more similarities between far left and far right, not how they perceive others on the spectrum.

Also to quote from the article:
“political scientists do not appear to support this notion, and instances of peer-reviewed research on the subject are scarce. Existing studies and comprehensive reviews often find only limited support and only under certain conditions; they generally contradict the theory's central premises.”
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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Hahaha I almost quoted that exact paragraph when I looked at his link earlier today, gangy… but decided I ultimately couldn’t be bothered
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by Dr Zaius »

I'd say Anti-vaxxers and science rejectors in general would be examples of the theory.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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Image
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by Dr Zaius »

gangrenous wrote:Image
Nothing, which is why I said science deniers in general.
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Post by gangrenous »

I’m so confused.

Are you saying that anti-vaxxers are far right? And science deniers (like woo-woo folks?) are far left? Then have more hatred towards moderates who follow science?

I’m not sure that either of those positions are natural consequences of those politics… Nor that it implies the extremes will generally despise the moderates more greatly.

I guess another example similar to yours would be Lidia Thorpe and Jacinta Price on the Voice? But again I don’t think that means they generally despise moderates more than each other because by chance they align on something.
Last edited by gangrenous on June 4, 2024, 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by -TW- »

There's anti vaxxers at both ends of the spectrum

There's anti establishment anti vaxxers which are generally anti anything government

Then there's science deniers, natural therapy hippy type anti vaxxers

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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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gangrenous wrote:I’m so confused.

Are you saying that anti-vaxxers are far right? And science deniers (like woo-woo folks?) are far left? Then have more hatred towards moderates who follow science?

I’m not sure that either of those positions are natural consequences of those politics… Nor that it implies the extremes will generally despise the moderates more greatly.

I guess another example similar to yours would be Lidia Thorpe and Jacinta Price on the Voice? But again I don’t think that means they generally despise moderates more than each other because by chance they align on something.
No that's not what I'm saying. As TW said, there are antivaxxers and science deniers at either end of the political spectrum.
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Post by gangrenous »

Isn’t that what I asked?

Or are objecting to linking it back to what Papabear was talking about in the first place with the moderates?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by Dr Zaius »

gangrenous wrote:Isn’t that what I asked? Image

Or are objecting to linking it back to what Papabear was talking about in the first place with the moderates?
My post is pretty self explanatory. TW didn't have a lot of trouble grasping it. Make of it what you will.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by gangrenous »

Settle petal. Bit rough on ol’ Tdubs there.

That theory was provided as grounding for papabear’s assertion that the far left and right hated moderates more than each other. It’s not that outlandish to ask if your response was part of the thread context!

Not convinced that woo-woo equates to far left politically either.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by The Nickman »

Here's my thoughts on the horseshoe theory. While I certainly don't necessarily agree that far left and far right become closer aligned in ideology with their opposite, it is true that there's certain things, such as a blatant mistrust of the system, as well as lunatic anti-government, anti-society, anti-science and anti-vax elements in both groups.

I've always just said that both the far left and far right are absolute idiots, with views not grounded in reality. And generally most people in the middle agree with that, and the only folk who seem to want to debate this point are absolute idiots who are either too far to the left or too far to the right.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by papabear »

The Nickman wrote: June 5, 2024, 12:28 pm Here's my thoughts on the horseshoe theory. While I certainly don't necessarily agree that far left and far right become closer aligned in ideology with their opposite, it is true that there's certain things, such as a blatant mistrust of the system, as well as lunatic anti-government, anti-society, anti-science and anti-vax elements in both groups.

I've always just said that both the far left and far right are absolute idiots, with views not grounded in reality. And generally most people in the middle agree with that, and the only folk who seem to want to debate this point are absolute idiots who are either too far to the left or too far to the right.
TBH I think the above post is very well said.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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The only problem I have is that I don’t think there are many people in that position because most people think they ARE the moderates in the middle.
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gangrenous wrote:The only problem I have is that I don’t think there are many people in that position because most people think they ARE the moderates in the middle.
I’m not!
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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gangrenous
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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Yes, well we all know you’re a rabid right winger
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gangrenous wrote:Yes, well we all know you’re a rabid right winger Image
Yes. Absolutely. I’m curious about your philosophy and would like to know more!
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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gangrenous wrote: June 6, 2024, 6:50 pm The only problem I have is that I don’t think there are many people in that position because most people think they ARE the moderates in the middle.
I have a few tests… f or anyone

Are you emotional about who wins an election?

Do you think your way is the right way and people who think differently to you are idiots?

Do you agree with the reddit hive mind? Do you agree with the business conference hive mind?

If you answered yes to the above you are not a moderate…

Another good one is how often your vote swings… your ability to shift your preference between labor / coalition / a minor with a chance to win, shows you are just going in the direction that you think works best for you at that time and you don’t have a particular creed/party that you are stuck on thinking it’s holier then the other regardless of what the candidates / parties have done…. This is much easier to do if you are moderate…
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by The Nickman »

Personally, while I've voted predominantly Liberal in my life, I've on occasion voted for Labor and Independents, I've voted Labor the last few state elections and I actually foresee myself voting Labor in at least the next federal election and maybe even the next few. There's no way I'll be voting Liberal for a while. In fact, I may never vote Liberal again.

Have I ever been upset or emotional about the person I've voted for losing an election? No, and in fact I think Australia has a pretty solid track record of voting for the right prime minister at the time. I'll probably be a bit upset about Trump winning at the end of the year, but I think the ramifications of this happening on a global scale are much worse than many people are envisaging. But domestically, at either state or federal level? No, it has never bothered me in the slightest.

Do I think my way is the right way? Not sure, I'm not entirely sure what "my way" is. There's elements of both left wing AND right wing ideology that appeals to me, I think I'm probably economically right but socially left, I think I'm similar to Malcolm Turnbull if I were to choose somebody. Do I think people who think differently are idiots? I think Pauline Hanson supporters are bigots and gullible, and full lefties are out of touch with reality if that counts? Normal friends of mine that aren't either way inclined that vote differently to me have never bothered me, everyone's entitled to their vote and their opinion.

I have no idea what the reddit or business conference hive minds actually mean or think, so I'll abstain from that one.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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A reddit hive mind for me is like watching a communist / hippie rally.

Whilst some business conferences I go to is watching fat old dudes muse openly why employees aren’t slaves..

More and more people are just sticking to their own circles and being comfortable in their own echo chambers… I imagine u see the same thing on Facebook but I don’t go to any other social media outside of reddit..
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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So what are your answers to the above questions, papa? You strike me as fairly right-winged, sometimes almost to the level of absurd, but I'm keen to hear your thoughts on your own leanings.
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gangrenous
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Post by gangrenous »

papabear wrote: Are you emotional about who wins an election?
Yes, though it’s more about who wins and what their party is going to do than a straight Labor/Liberal thing.

I was disappointed when Abbott and Morrison won. I don’t like them as people and I thought they’d take Australia the wrong direction.
papabear wrote: Do you think your way is the right way and people who think differently to you are idiots?
Of course I think my way is the right way. Who thinks their way is the wrong way?

No, people who think differently to me are not idiots. But there are plenty of idiots who think differently to me! And certain groups like One Nation supporters where my default position is they’re an idiot.
papabear wrote: Do you agree with the reddit hive mind?
The reddit hive mind depends what subreddit you’re in.
papabear wrote: Do you agree with the business conference hive mind?
Don’t know what this is, but safe to say “no” I think!
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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So Hunter Biden found guilty of lying on a firearm application. I'd be interested in hearing Trump's thoughts on whether this was a rigged trial and a political witch hunt. Or maybe they are both just criminals.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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Dr Zaius wrote: June 12, 2024, 1:36 am So Hunter Biden found guilty of lying on a firearm application. I'd be interested in hearing Trump's thoughts on whether this was a rigged trial and a political witch hunt. Or maybe they are both just criminals.
I've already seen some "They found Hunter Biden guilty so they can pretend that the justice system is fair in an attempt to legitimises Trump convictions" sort of stuff going around on twitter
Its truly unhinged ****.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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Apparently, there is a putin bootlicker doing well in germany in the EU elections.

I watched some youtube and she was described as economically left and socially right.

Which is an anathema to me and why this is rising in popularity I can only potentially blame on facebook and youtube ??

I have always thought going conservative (ie let business do business) and socially progressive (let people do whomever and whatever they want in a consenting situation) with some environmental conservatism (get rid of plastics and chemicals in waterways) was the way to go with people slowly moving to various positions upon this diagram but going all out the opposite.. I.e. a central government control who you hump, where you work, not defending his borders from an invading force but ensuring no migrants come in would be more unpalatable then it appears to be.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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papabear wrote:Apparently, there is a putin bootlicker doing well in germany in the EU elections.

I watched some youtube and she was described as economically left and socially right.

Which is an anathema to me and why this is rising in popularity I can only potentially blame on facebook and youtube ??

I have always thought going conservative (ie let business do business) and socially progressive (let people do whomever and whatever they want in a consenting situation) with some environmental conservatism (get rid of plastics and chemicals in waterways) was the way to go with people slowly moving to various positions upon this diagram but going all out the opposite.. I.e. a central government control who you hump, where you work, not defending his borders from an invading force but ensuring no migrants come in would be more unpalatable then it appears to be.
The push towards the far right in Europe is concerning. The upcoming French election will be interesting. The UK at least looks set to shift towards the left.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by The Nickman »

Dr Zaius wrote: June 12, 2024, 1:48 pm
papabear wrote:Apparently, there is a putin bootlicker doing well in germany in the EU elections.

I watched some youtube and she was described as economically left and socially right.

Which is an anathema to me and why this is rising in popularity I can only potentially blame on facebook and youtube ??

I have always thought going conservative (ie let business do business) and socially progressive (let people do whomever and whatever they want in a consenting situation) with some environmental conservatism (get rid of plastics and chemicals in waterways) was the way to go with people slowly moving to various positions upon this diagram but going all out the opposite.. I.e. a central government control who you hump, where you work, not defending his borders from an invading force but ensuring no migrants come in would be more unpalatable then it appears to be.
The push towards the far right in Europe is concerning. The upcoming French election will be interesting. The UK at least looks set to shift towards the left.
Extremely concerning. In both France and Germany.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

Post by Dr Zaius »

Predictable. Still, unbelievable.

“This trial has been nothing more than a distraction from the real crimes of the Biden Crime Family, which has raked in tens of millions of dollars from China, Russia and Ukraine,” the Trump campaign said a statement to CNN. “Crooked Joe Biden’s reign over the Biden Family Criminal Empire is all coming to an end on November 5th, and never again will a Biden sell government access for personal profit.”
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Re: The Politics Thread 2024

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Gee, has anyone else read much into this Project 2025 stuff? It’s genuinely frightening

That’s it, I’ve had about enough of this timeline. Can somebody please go back to 1980 and get the Sports Almanac off Donald Trump?
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