Raiders are on the right track

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rayden83
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Raiders are on the right track

Post by rayden83 »

Every season is important and every game is important. But our goal as a football club should be to win the Premiership. We have a natural disadvantage of being located in a landlocked, family oriented, public service dominant city, so we will always struggle to buy capable players to fill key positions. That's why Raiders are on the right track to blood young up and coming players like Chevy and Ethan, even though they are far from the finished product. What we sacrifice in short term results we gain in accelerated development curves for our young players, which is particularly important in key spine positions like fullback and half, where we traditionally struggle to recruit. Additionally, Canberra can market themselves to other prospective rising stars as a development club, who will see they have the best chance of establishing an NRL career by coming to the Raiders rather than waiting for <insert incumbent> to retire.

Let's be clear, the goal this year is to win the Premiership. Even if we threw our entire JF team out there, the goal does not change. But we have to manage our expectations with the reality that unless we take a different business approach we will never succeed. Success isn't top 8, it's not prelims, it's to win the Premiership.

That's why I haven't been particularly upset when we have been thrashed this year, unlike previous years. I can see it's part of a greater long term ambition. Maybe it won't pay dividends, maybe it will, but I am at least glad Raiders management are trying something different rather than settling for mediocrity. I would rather chance failure than embrace mediocrity. So let's get behind our young fellas like Ethan and Chevy even if they are a bit underdone and not quite ready, because they are seriously the best chance of winning a Premiership one day.
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Azza
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Azza »

Agreed.

Yay team!
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by dubby »

I agree with your sentiment.

We knew this season was a season of transition and changes.

It still does hurt when you get flogged 40 zip, but perspective is essential.

So far this season, we've played some very good footy. Then, injury set us back.

Our backline last week was arguably the most inexperienced backline I've seen from us.

What worried me more was how our lauded forward pack was dominated from the outset.

Hold on boys. 2024 is going to be a heck of a ride!
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by samvucago »

rayden83 wrote: May 1, 2024, 10:21 am Every season is important and every game is important. But our goal as a football club should be to win the Premiership. We have a natural disadvantage of being located in a landlocked, family oriented, public service dominant city, so we will always struggle to buy capable players to fill key positions. That's why Raiders are on the right track to blood young up and coming players like Chevy and Ethan, even though they are far from the finished product. What we sacrifice in short term results we gain in accelerated development curves for our young players, which is particularly important in key spine positions like fullback and half, where we traditionally struggle to recruit. Additionally, Canberra can market themselves to other prospective rising stars as a development club, who will see they have the best chance of establishing an NRL career by coming to the Raiders rather than waiting for <insert incumbent> to retire.

Let's be clear, the goal this year is to win the Premiership. Even if we threw our entire JF team out there, the goal does not change. But we have to manage our expectations with the reality that unless we take a different business approach we will never succeed. Success isn't top 8, it's not prelims, it's to win the Premiership.

That's why I haven't been particularly upset when we have been thrashed this year, unlike previous years. I can see it's part of a greater long term ambition. Maybe it won't pay dividends, maybe it will, but I am at least glad Raiders management are trying something different rather than settling for mediocrity. I would rather chance failure than embrace mediocrity. So let's get behind our young fellas like Ethan and Chevy even if they are a bit underdone and not quite ready, because they are seriously the best chance of winning a Premiership one day.
Would cheer your positive outlook for “management” if we hadn’t had endure the last 30 years of putrid decisions and lack of accountability within this organisation.

Starts at the top and that’s why this club struggles.

DF jr wouldn’t get a job in middle management let alone be CEO at any private or corporate organisation other than this one where you have to have the 2620 postcode on your birth certificate to get a foot in the door.
Last edited by samvucago on May 1, 2024, 4:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Based on the Brisbane game - sure.

Based on the Cronulla game - nahhh.

Look, I don't think many if any fans would have been sharpening their pitchforks after a comfortable-but-not-humiliating loss against the Broncos. A loss where young Chevy copped a hammering but kept getting up and getting stuck in. We fought hard in that game to maintain pride and respectability and I think we achieved that in the second half. And the young troops would have learnt a tonne from it.

There was ultimately no shame at all in losing to a premiership heavyweight in the driving rain up at a hostile Suncorp with an injury-plagued lineup and a host of rooks.

But the loss on the weekend wasn't really the same calibre. We just got battered up the middle and our senior players didn't turn up to give us a fighting chance. Our issues in attack are well documented and having rookies and plodders in the spine isn't going to help. I think many would have been forgiving if we had given it a crack and defended properly. We may have got beaten 18-0 or something like that but the 40-0 thrashing at home was not one we should be accepting or lauding as acceptable, even accounting for all of the excuses.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by NoMan »

Yeah, its the performance of the senior players thats the real worry. It looked like the entire cornerstone of having great middles is in trouble based on the weekend and even grind ball isnt going to work if you can never get in the grind because you’re off the pace.

It is one week though so lets wait and see.
Last edited by NoMan on May 1, 2024, 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by The Nickman »

Mickey_Raider wrote: May 1, 2024, 4:21 pm Based on the Brisbane game - sure.

Based on the Cronulla game - nahhh.

Look, I don't think many if any fans would have been sharpening their pitchforks after a comfortable-but-not-humiliating loss against the Broncos. A loss where young Chevy copped a hammering but kept getting up and getting stuck in. We fought hard in that game to maintain pride and respectability and I think we achieved that in the second half. And the young troops would have learnt a tonne from it.

There was ultimately no shame at all in losing to a premiership heavyweight in the driving rain up at a hostile Suncorp with an injury-plagued lineup and a host of rooks.

But the loss on the weekend wasn't really the same calibre. We just got battered up the middle and our senior players didn't turn up to give us a fighting chance. Our issues in attack are well documented and having rookies and plodders in the spine isn't going to help. I think many would have been forgiving if we had given it a crack and defended properly. We may have got beaten 18-0 or something like that but the 40-0 thrashing at home was not one we should be accepting or lauding as acceptable, even accounting for all of the excuses.
And the worst thing about that is that the senior players didn't stand up... and the coach hung the young blokes out to dry for it.

Disgraceful stuff all round.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Rick »

At least we still have our hookers….


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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Dr Zaius »


dubby wrote:I agree with your sentiment.

We knew this season was a season of transition and changes.

It still does hurt when you get flogged 40 zip, but perspective is essential.

So far this season, we've played some very good footy. Then, injury set us back.

Our backline last week was arguably the most inexperienced backline I've seen from us.

What worried me more was how our lauded forward pack was dominated from the outset.


Hold on boys. 2024 is going to be a heck of a ride!
Exactly. That loss was nothing to do with our inexperienced spine, and everything to do with our experienced forward pack meekly submitting.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Dr Zaius »

The Nickman wrote:
Mickey_Raider wrote: May 1, 2024, 4:21 pm Based on the Brisbane game - sure.

Based on the Cronulla game - nahhh.

Look, I don't think many if any fans would have been sharpening their pitchforks after a comfortable-but-not-humiliating loss against the Broncos. A loss where young Chevy copped a hammering but kept getting up and getting stuck in. We fought hard in that game to maintain pride and respectability and I think we achieved that in the second half. And the young troops would have learnt a tonne from it.

There was ultimately no shame at all in losing to a premiership heavyweight in the driving rain up at a hostile Suncorp with an injury-plagued lineup and a host of rooks.

But the loss on the weekend wasn't really the same calibre. We just got battered up the middle and our senior players didn't turn up to give us a fighting chance. Our issues in attack are well documented and having rookies and plodders in the spine isn't going to help. I think many would have been forgiving if we had given it a crack and defended properly. We may have got beaten 18-0 or something like that but the 40-0 thrashing at home was not one we should be accepting or lauding as acceptable, even accounting for all of the excuses.
And the worst thing about that is that the senior players didn't stand up... and the coach hung the young blokes out to dry for it.

Disgraceful stuff all round.
Hung who out to dry? Chevy has been rested, and fair enough. Schiller got dropped, but he's hardly been hung out to dry.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by dubby »

Dr Zaius wrote:
dubby wrote:I agree with your sentiment.

We knew this season was a season of transition and changes.

It still does hurt when you get flogged 40 zip, but perspective is essential.

So far this season, we've played some very good footy. Then, injury set us back.

Our backline last week was arguably the most inexperienced backline I've seen from us.

What worried me more was how our lauded forward pack was dominated from the outset.


Hold on boys. 2024 is going to be a heck of a ride!
Exactly. That loss was nothing to do with our inexperienced spine, and everything to do with our experienced forward pack meekly submitting.
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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bonehead
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by bonehead »

well actually it was a bit of both, we don't have a guy who can pin the opposition to start their sets in their coners so therefore additional pressure on our defence, backs who can't roll us out of yardage further pressuring our forwards etc etc ah why waste my time....

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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by FROG »

I think our forward pack as a collective is massively over rated. As individuals they perform but as a unit I feel like we get owned in most games. Line speed in defence is atrocious. Fogartys boot keeps us in games. We're in for a long 3 months unless it improves
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Rick »

FROG wrote:I think our forward pack as a collective is massively over rated. As individuals they perform but as a unit I feel like we get owned in most games. Line speed in defence is atrocious. Fogartys boot keeps us in games. We're in for a long 3 months unless it improves
I agree with this. Tapine has been great, Smithies and Hosking were good in the early games but that’s been it. As a whole they have been very underwhelming.

I’ve said it from Rd 1 but our rotations hamper us and while Horse is injured Papali needs to come off the bench. Everyone needs to lift and lead with their defence.


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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by The Nickman »

FROG wrote: May 2, 2024, 6:59 am I think our forward pack as a collective is massively over rated. As individuals they perform but as a unit I feel like we get owned in most games. Line speed in defence is atrocious. Fogartys boot keeps us in games. We're in for a long 3 months unless it improves
They'd be a lot better with a serviceable dummy half, but I generally agree with what you're saying.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Bluesbrother »

I think our forward pack at full strength is elite, but we're not at full strength. The weekend was a poor performance, 40-0 at home is unacceptable.

I find it funny that folks on here bag Hoppa as he is our best yardage player, yes, even better than our forwards.

If you look at the best teams in the competition, the blueprint is clear. You need a back 5 that makes considerable yards in the modern game. The Panthers, Broncos and Sharks all have amazing back 5 players who make yards out of the backfield. It gives the forwards a rest.

Kris hasn't aimed up in this area. Nor has Schiller. Nor has Chevy. Combine that with the loss of Rapana and I'd say we're in the negative upwards of 400+ metres a game.

Our forwards were poor on the weekend and Cronulla were very good. However, our forwards aren't at full strength and they aren't getting much help at the moment.

Hoppa should be in the 17 every week in my opinion. Particularly if we're carrying a guy like Chevy who is largely ineffective in this area right now.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Canberra Milk »

Bluesbrother wrote: May 2, 2024, 9:43 am I think our forward pack at full strength is elite, but we're not at full strength. The weekend was a poor performance, 40-0 at home is unacceptable.

I find it funny that folks on here bag Hoppa as he is our best yardage player, yes, even better than our forwards.

If you look at the best teams in the competition, the blueprint is clear. You need a back 5 that makes considerable yards in the modern game. The Panthers, Broncos and Sharks all have amazing back 5 players who make yards out of the backfield. It gives the forwards a rest.

Kris hasn't aimed up in this area. Nor has Schiller. Nor has Chevy. Combine that with the loss of Rapana and I'd say we're in the negative upwards of 400+ metres a game.

Our forwards were poor on the weekend and Cronulla were very good. However, our forwards aren't at full strength and they aren't getting much help at the moment.

Hoppa should be in the 17 every week in my opinion. Particularly if we're carrying a guy like Chevy who is largely ineffective in this area right now.
The Sharks, Panthers and Broncos have a back 5 who can do yardage, but also bust the line and light up the attack. That is far, far from Hoppa. Also I assume you are not referring to Walsh as part of the back 5
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Botman »

The Sharks, Broncos and Panthers outside backs are legit NRL level players and talents. They dont just make metres, they break tackles, they create and finish chances
Hoppa is a walking tackling bag. You'll throw your back out reaching to compare Hoppa to the wingers playing in those squads

Edit: Oooof ****itall! Beaten to the punch by Kman!
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Post by President Clinton »

Correct me if I’m wrong, put Tapine’s missed tackle on Hazelton was downright hideous.

It does seem unfair that the younger players have been scapegoated for the loss when it really seemed to me that the more inexperienced, representative forwards put on a shocking display.
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Post by Bluesbrother »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 2, 2024, 9:53 am
Bluesbrother wrote: May 2, 2024, 9:43 am I think our forward pack at full strength is elite, but we're not at full strength. The weekend was a poor performance, 40-0 at home is unacceptable.

I find it funny that folks on here bag Hoppa as he is our best yardage player, yes, even better than our forwards.

If you look at the best teams in the competition, the blueprint is clear. You need a back 5 that makes considerable yards in the modern game. The Panthers, Broncos and Sharks all have amazing back 5 players who make yards out of the backfield. It gives the forwards a rest.

Kris hasn't aimed up in this area. Nor has Schiller. Nor has Chevy. Combine that with the loss of Rapana and I'd say we're in the negative upwards of 400+ metres a game.

Our forwards were poor on the weekend and Cronulla were very good. However, our forwards aren't at full strength and they aren't getting much help at the moment.

Hoppa should be in the 17 every week in my opinion. Particularly if we're carrying a guy like Chevy who is largely ineffective in this area right now.
The Sharks, Panthers and Broncos have a back 5 who can do yardage, but also bust the line and light up the attack. That is far, far from Hoppa. Also I assume you are not referring to Walsh as part of the back 5
We don't have that luxury CM. We've got flighty, highlights package players - Schiller, Savage, Stewart. Then we've got conservative meter eaters - Hoppa. We need a balance. Rapana is our best in both areas, finishing and making meters, and he is out iinjured. Ill stand by it - Hoppa needs to be in our 17 every week. He allows other players to be better. It's not just about what he does himself, it's about what he does for others.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Bluesbrother »

Botman wrote: May 2, 2024, 9:56 am The Sharks, Broncos and Panthers outside backs are legit NRL level players and talents. They dont just make metres, they break tackles, they create and finish chances
Hoppa is a walking tackling bag. You'll throw your back out reaching to compare Hoppa to the wingers playing in those squads

Edit: Oooof ****itall! Beaten to the punch by Kman!
Kris has been poor all year. Schiller has been poor. Savage has done a few good things and a few bad things (standard). Cotric has done nothing. Hoppa is my number 3 back 5 player this season - Timoko, Rapana, Hoppa. No coincidence we've played well every game has played this season. Knights, win. Tigers, win. Warriors, very tight loss.

Get Hoppa in. He's earned it.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Botman »

Bluesbrother wrote: May 2, 2024, 10:06 am He allows other players to be better. It's not just about what he does himself, it's about what he does for others.
Certainly can't argue against that.
He makes the opposition winger and half better every time he plays
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Bluesbrother »

Botman wrote: May 2, 2024, 10:16 am
Bluesbrother wrote: May 2, 2024, 10:06 am He allows other players to be better. It's not just about what he does himself, it's about what he does for others.
Certainly can't argue against that.
He makes the opposition winger and half better every time he plays
We missed 50 tackles on the weekend so it can't get much worse. You don't like Hoppa, fair enough but we don't have better on our books.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by BJ »

President Clinton wrote:Correct me if I’m wrong, put Tapine’s missed tackle on Hazelton was downright hideous.

It does seem unfair that the younger players have been scapegoated for the loss when it really seemed to me that the more inexperienced, representative forwards put on a shocking display.
Tapine’s missed tackle looked more like an end of career Darius Boyd effort.

I imagine Taps is pretty embarrassed about that attempt as it was far from his usual standards.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Bluesbrother »

BJ wrote: May 2, 2024, 11:07 am
President Clinton wrote:Correct me if I’m wrong, put Tapine’s missed tackle on Hazelton was downright hideous.

It does seem unfair that the younger players have been scapegoated for the loss when it really seemed to me that the more inexperienced, representative forwards put on a shocking display.
Tapine’s missed tackle looked more like an end of career Darius Boyd effort.

I imagine Taps is pretty embarrassed about that attempt as it was far from his usual standards.
As a young player in that team, you see that effort from Taps and your head drops. We can't afford that right now.

Young guys haven't been made scapegoat. Who are the young guys that were dropped? Chevy was rested, that's it. Sasagi is a back up player as is Schiller.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by NoMan »

Papa misses those ones on ones occasionally as well. Rarely misses more than one or two a year though. I doubt Tapine makes a habit of it.

The bigger problem is nobody should be making one on one tackles in that situation anyway.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by -PJ- »

Futures so bright I gotta wear shades..

Chev, Trey, Colonel, Stranger, Ata, Timoko, X, Kris, Smithies all under 24-25.
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by -PJ- »

Sitting 6th on the NRL ladder after 13 weeks.

We’ve gotta be happy with that right ?

Who had us so high halfway through the season ?
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by reptar »

-PJ- wrote:Sitting 6th on the NRL ladder after 13 weeks.

We’ve gotta be happy with that right ?

Who had us so high halfway through the season ?
I, for one, won’t be happy until 2056 when a Rapana cyborg lifts the cup!
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by BadnMean »

-PJ- wrote: June 2, 2024, 6:35 pm Sitting 6th on the NRL ladder after 13 weeks.

We’ve gotta be happy with that right ?

Who had us so high halfway through the season ?
Who had us so high after Fog went down?
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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by bonehead »

nope I didn't expect to be thi high, probably the win over only the only one I wasn't expecting to win and I could see us getting screwed against the dolphins.
4 points better than expected.
If we can jag a top 8 finish would be good for these boys to play more semi's

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Re: Raiders are on the right track

Post by Seiffert82 »

Given we have such a young squad and a number of issues in key spine positions, a top 8 spot would be a great outcome.

I look at the squads across the NRL and think Penrith, Melbourne, Roosters, Warriors and Broncos have clearly superior lists to ours. To that extent, finishing anywhere in that 6-8 range would be a good result.

KPI worthy perhaps.

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