2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
2
20%
Raiders 1-12
0
No votes
Draw
0
No votes
Sharks 1-12
3
30%
Sharks 13+
5
50%
 
Total votes: 10

NoMan
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by NoMan »

Botman wrote: April 30, 2024, 9:42 am I would just say watch the players and trust your own eyes.
I think anyone making sweeping statements and judgements on guys who have less than 10 first grade games and who are not close to their physical peak are telling on themselves.

And i dont think anyone has definitively declared any of these guys future stars. But we've seen flashes of what they are capable of and fans are quite rightly excited for that potential.
Yeah, I think you can cherry pick examples of players who have come through every path to stardom or became busts to try and prove a point. These guys are more like Milford, Dugan, Carney than Schneiders and Trevs etc and those former players were far more hyped. They arent picked in Junior reps because Raiders fans hype them. You play those class of players and risk the bust every time.

The other thing I think distorts peoples view is this idea that most next big things and junior reps bust and are busts unless they are superstars. Sure a lot of them bust, but when you actually look at it 18 and 19 year old junior reps who play first grade early have the highest ceiling and highest floor of any group of players.

I do think young players get overhyped when people talk about specific things they will do and not about their potential. Someone like GE who has watched 30+ years of juniors come through saying a player is showing rep potential at a young age is perfectly fine, when someone watches one game and says they will play Origin is another thing entirely. Lots of people also conflate the volume of discussion about a player as hype and miss whats actually said.
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Azza
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Azza »

Willy Zilly anyone?

Can't blame our fans for overhyping youngsters. We've been starved of success for so long that any possible ray of sunshine that emerges has them flapping around like a sturgeon out of water.
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-TW-
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

Zillman was a gun until his knees exploded

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Canberra Milk
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Canberra Milk »

There's a consistent trend on the forum of over 20 years to overrate juniors coming through, yes

I know Penrith have built unheard of success through their junior pathways, but they've really bet on their juniors generally rather than any specific ones

If Ricky's position though is that this is the only choice we have, that he has to make this bet on juniors because proven stars don't want to come to Canberra... then I completely agree

I think he's chosen Chevy on mindset and work ethic as much as talent, he sees him as someone who will do the work required both on and off the field to develop into a proper player

On Nicho Hynes, apparently he was a gun youngster though, but got derailed by mental health issues etc

And yes there are the late bloomers, Cronk played plenty of reserve grade and played off the bench etc. There are so many variables, which is why teams are happy to pay big for a sure thing, a proven current star. But that's not a position we can take
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gangrenous
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Dugan was an elite player, he threw it away.
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Botman
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Botman »

I think there is a distinction to be made between being excited for what a player COULD be and overrating players

Re: young players coming through i dont think for the most part, this forum overrates young players, i think we get very excited for the potential of young players... but that's sports right? Like if you cant get excited about a young player with potential, then something is wrong.
People are excited for what Chevy, Strange and Sanders could be. But most accept there is a very long way to go and whilst the talent and upside is very clear there is no sure bets in this game.
But we're not different to any other fan base. Nothing is more exciting than a young player with talent, who could elevate your team to another level. Every single club has a list as long as ours of next great hopes (Melbourne might be the exception) who for whatever reason never delivered. Penrith more than most btw.

Strange, Chevy and Sanders are very young and very talented. We should be excited for that. As fans you should dream and pontificate about he potential of a team with all 3 of those guys hitting their ceiling. But i dont think any serious poster on this site thinks these guys are locked in a stars going forward.

I think asking fans not to be hopeful and think about the very best outcomes for their footy teams is not only unrealistic, but in reality, its a **** grim fan exisistance :lol:
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BJ
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by BJ »

Yeah good point Bot on the distinction between what a player could be and will be.

I’m certainly more positive of what our current young crop COULD be, than say the Cornish Picker era. But about the same level as I felt through the Carney, Carney Zilman era.

If like the broader Penrith region, Canberra saw tens of thousands of Polynesians move to live here I’d be more optimistic about our junior stocks and pathways.
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greeneyed
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

What’s the point of following a club if you can’t get excited about the good talent coming through the club? This is a footy club, you support all the teams, hope all the players progress and do well. You know they all can’t, but I just don’t get why anyone would want to rain on that parade.
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Seiffert82
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

dubby wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote:
dubby wrote:That was a horrible performance.

The only player for mine who really had a go was Timoko. Strange tried as well.

The Sharks were faster and ran harder, and our pack never recovered.

64 missed tackles is disgraceful. Ten of them from Sasagi! Ten!

That missed tackle from Tapine kinda summed up the game. Actually no, it was Levi spilling the ball for no reason.

I do hope Rick sends Schiller back to Cup. His feeble defence :nooo

Levi, Schiller, Sasagi, can all go back to Cup, while I hope Puru, Woolford and maybe Hola get a chance. We need a bit of experience so maybe Cotric or Hoppa on the wing, or do we blood Asomua?
I'm not sure what the NRL record is for missed tackles in a game or by an individual player, but 64/10 must be right up there. Huddo with 6 misses and equally bad defence from our starting front rowers meant our outside backs were barely tested, but (excepting Timoko) they were still ordinary in their decision making.

Both the effort and execution after the first 15 minutes was terrible. These are professional athletes playing in front of a great crowd. It was really disappointing.

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Last year both EW and Young were in the top 15 for missed tackles.

I recall Chris Sandow missing a heap Years ago.....

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Yes they were.

We also have CHN and Hosking on the sideline unavailable for selection.

Sasagi's defence is as bad as I've ever seen an NRL second rower. It's like the Smith-Shields situation all over again, with Croker coming back in despite also being no longer at NRL standard.

Anyway, that's why the club is pursuing another player for that position. Neither Hosking or Sasagi are the long term answer IMO. Both are poor defenders.

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Seiffert82
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

T_R wrote:Schiller looks a bit bewildered in defence and in other circumstances would need to be looked closely at, but for the life of me I just can't see where tries are going to come from except through ad-hoc moments by individual players, and he's probably as good as anyone on that.

Im not a Ricky fan, but I feel a bit for him here...there's no easy way forward on this team at the moment.
5 tries and 1 try assist in 5 games playing outside one of the top centres in the NRL. Cotric most certainly scores 4 of those and probably all 5.

This vibe about how important Schiller is to our attack is a touch overblown. It's not like we're replacing him with Adrian Purtell.


Last edited by Seiffert82 on May 1, 2024, 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dubby
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by dubby »

While he is fast and scored 5 tries, I think he probably let in as many.

Cotric seems to be gaining form and confidence in NSW Cup, so hopefully he brings that to NRL
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If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Seiffert82
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

dubby wrote:While he is fast and scored 5 tries, I think he probably let in as many.

Cotric seems to be gaining form and confidence in NSW Cup, so hopefully he brings that to NRL
Yeah, for obvious reasons Schiller is a pace over power style of player. To that end, he is poor in contact - whether it be defensively or with loose carries. He got away with another spill on the weekend which was called a strip, but was clearly poor ball security.

Time will tell whether his technique or his defensive reads will improve enough to overcome his physical limits.

I copped a bit of grief for suggesting Savage wasn't physically or mentally ready the last few years. I always had confidence there was a good player in there. This year he has been incredible - one of my favourite players to watch. In comparison Schiller is a different kettle of fish IMO. He has a mountain of work ahead of him if he wants to be an NRL quality centre.

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dubby
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by dubby »

Seiffert82 wrote: May 1, 2024, 11:36 am
dubby wrote:While he is fast and scored 5 tries, I think he probably let in as many.

Cotric seems to be gaining form and confidence in NSW Cup, so hopefully he brings that to NRL
Yeah, for obvious reasons Schiller is a pace over power style of player. To that end, he is poor in contact - whether it be defensively or with loose carries. He got away with another spill on the weekend which was called a strip, but was clearly poor ball security.

Time will tell whether his technique or his defensive reads will improve enough to overcome his physical limits.

I copped a bit of grief for suggesting Savage wasn't physically or mentally ready the last few years. I always had confidence there was a good player in there. This year he has been incredible - one of my favourite players to watch. In comparison Schiller is a different kettle of fish IMO. He has a mountain of work ahead of him if he wants to be an NRL quality centre.

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Savage has improved, which is exciting. He does need to show a bit more urgency when chasing the opposition kicks IMO.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Rick
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Rick »

I think the angle of the camera in the Sharks game did him no favours. In first watch it looked horrible but later in the game when they showed a replay it did not look like he was getting anywhere near there. Not sure if he was caught out of position or if it was just a really good kick.

The mistake earlier in the year against the Sharks - yes, but the recent one has been overhyped.


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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Rick wrote: May 1, 2024, 12:41 pm I think the angle of the camera in the Sharks game did him no favours. In first watch it looked horrible but later in the game when they showed a replay it did not look like he was getting anywhere near there. Not sure if he was caught out of position or if it was just a really good kick.

The mistake earlier in the year against the Sharks - yes, but the recent one has been overhyped.


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I thought they were both pretty poor efforts, to be perfectly honest.
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Botman
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Botman »

Rick wrote: May 1, 2024, 12:41 pm I think the angle of the camera in the Sharks game did him no favours. In first watch it looked horrible but later in the game when they showed a replay it did not look like he was getting anywhere near there. Not sure if he was caught out of position or if it was just a really good kick.

The mistake earlier in the year against the Sharks - yes, but the recent one has been overhyped.


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Agreed. Great kick by Hynes, i understand Savage has some form in this area so people are a little on the look out for lack of effort plays but i dont think that was one.
I dont think his positioning was particularly bad, obviously any time you get a 40/20 kicked on you can question that aspect of the play but sometimes you just beat by a perfect kick.
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Seiffert82
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Re: 2024 Round 8 v Sharks: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yeah, Hynes nailed that kick.

I'm not fussed by that from Savage. Everything else he has shown this year has been a marked improvement on previous seasons.

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