2024 Round 5 v Eels: Game Day

[greeneyed]

Just watching the game again… the early disallowed try for Schiller… the pass was called forward. But there was no way it was forward. I was in line and I did not think so live either. The referees we generally get allocated really aren’t up to the mark.


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[BJ]

Just watching the game again… the early disallowed try for Schiller… the pass was called forward. But there was no way it was forward. I was in line and I did not think so live either. The referees we generally get allocated really aren’t up to the mark.


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There were certainly more passes thrown more forward than that one for tries over the weekend. Including for two of our tries. But plenty of other games as well.

[Rickmando]

Just watching the game again… the early disallowed try for Schiller… the pass was called forward. But there was no way it was forward. I was in line and I did not think so live either. The referees we generally get allocated really aren’t up to the mark.


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Regarding that play - that was the set when Raps went off injured. How about the footy IQ from Savage to instinctively move across field from the left wing and into the fullback role in the right hand side backline sweep? I was impressed. He very nearly had instant impact!

[Seiffert82]

Just watching the game again… the early disallowed try for Schiller… the pass was called forward. But there was no way it was forward. I was in line and I did not think so live either. The referees we generally get allocated really aren’t up to the mark.


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Regarding that play - that was the set when Raps went off injured. How about the footy IQ from Savage to instinctively move across field from the left wing and into the fullback role in the right hand side backline sweep? I was impressed. He very nearly had instant impact!

Yeah, Savage is killing it out there. He's reading the play so well.

Very impressed.

And that should easily have been a try. Tons of passes, blatantly forward unlike that one, get let go every week.

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[Rickmando]

Just watching the game again… the early disallowed try for Schiller… the pass was called forward. But there was no way it was forward. I was in line and I did not think so live either. The referees we generally get allocated really aren’t up to the mark.


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Regarding that play - that was the set when Raps went off injured. How about the footy IQ from Savage to instinctively move across field from the left wing and into the fullback role in the right hand side backline sweep? I was impressed. He very nearly had instant impact!

Yeah, Savage is killing it out there. He's reading the play so well.

Very impressed.

And that should easily have been a try. Tons of passes, blatantly forward unlike that one, get let go every week.

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Whatever position Savage ends up settling into, I hope he is given licence to play it how he sees it and just be an attacking weapon that transcends the number he’s wearing on his back.

He won’t have to look far for inspiration. Remember peak Rapana? Especially in that 2016 season, he’d pop up everywhere on the field to set up or score tries!

[BadnMean]

Schiller just isn't a good winger... He looked much better in the centres in the trials, I think I would prefer Hoppa out there...

Jesus Christ

Defence is still a bit wobbly but on reflection today- gee it was a breath of fresh air to have speed on both flanks and I've been banging on about that for 2 years.

I'd prefer Schiller over Hoppa at any rate and Cotric just hasn't done enough to nail is spot down.

[papabear]

I didn’t watch the game but I have seen the highlights and it is baffling to me people are saying Schiller should be dropped for Hoppa on the basis of defences

Schiller let in 2 “soft” tries
The first I can live with, he made the right read but just didn’t commit fully. That ball was dying to go 90 metres back the other way.
The second was a very poor miss. But people, have you actually seen Hoppa play defence? He’s a terrible defensive winger. You’re not making a significant upgrade defensively with that move and you’re taking a giant step back offensively

Schiller has to improve in the area of defensive reads and contact for sure, but he’s also essentially A FG rookie. When he’s laying on tries and finishing the way he has, he earning the grace to get better with that in time and experience

His effort against Mulitalo last week was dreadful. Jersey grabber

His read on the Kennedy kick through the line, also garbage. Stay on your winger, back Timoko to do his job.

He has a lot to work on..

He does.

Hopoate is not the answer either.

From what I have been told there is a bit of an attitude issue there with Schiller. I hope games like this highlight to him that he needs to be better and his teammates will expect it.

There's no way a Craig Bellamy coached team puts up with that **** on the reg.

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If he has an attitude issue


He should **** right off

[thevikingclap on ig]

Just rewatched the game, Speed is what we need on our wings.

Schiller needs to stay, yes he has defensive issues but his attacking upside is too valuable.

I think we can work on his defence throughout the year, with his and Timokos combination improving by game.

[greeneyed]

So Graham Annesley highlighted three incidents from the Raiders' game this week... and talked about three incidents which weren't controversial. More to say, we were right! Confirmed Sasagi offloaded backwards for the Kris try. Confirmed Savage put Levi back on side for the Levi try. And that James Schiller should have been penalised, as he was, for not contesting for the ball from a Fogarty bomb... but rather was attempting to disrupt the Eels with his run.

VIDEO: Graham Annesley weekly football briefing: https://www.nrl.com/news/2024/04/08/gra ... d-05-2024/

No mention of the try disallowed for an imaginary foward pass!

[Botman]

I didn’t watch the game but I have seen the highlights and it is baffling to me people are saying Schiller should be dropped for Hoppa on the basis of defences

Schiller let in 2 “soft” tries
The first I can live with, he made the right read but just didn’t commit fully. That ball was dying to go 90 metres back the other way.
The second was a very poor miss. But people, have you actually seen Hoppa play defence? He’s a terrible defensive winger. You’re not making a significant upgrade defensively with that move and you’re taking a giant step back offensively

Schiller has to improve in the area of defensive reads and contact for sure, but he’s also essentially A FG rookie. When he’s laying on tries and finishing the way he has, he earning the grace to get better with that in time and experience

Why is it Schiller for hoppa though. TBH i maybe lean slightly schiller in that conversation because he has nice rythm in attack and I agree with you that I am not sure hoppas much better in defence.

The conversation should be Schiller for Cotric. For me whilst cotric has slightly less rythm in attack, cotric feels safer and his a far far better defender. If Schiller can sort his defensive issues out thats fine, but that last try his attempt was embarassing. Even if Sivo still scores he was caught in his no man land that he loves to be, but since sivo wasnt moving had enough time (and sivo a lack aof space) to get across there and he fell off like a wet rag.

Because whether I agree or not (and I don’t), Stuart has Hoppa ahead of Cotric
So that’s why it’s a Schiller vs Hoppa discussion
For me its a Schiller / Asomua discussion
But for the coach its Schiller/Hoppa

[Northern Raider]

Loved it, although it's hard not think that it should have been 41-0. Schiller is a defensive liability. Sharks did the same **** to him last week (and last year for that matter)

Without Schiller we're not scoring 41 points.

Without Schiller, they weren't scoring 8. He needs to get on top of that defence.

I think he will though, and I very much like what I'm seeing. It feels a bit odd to have a Raiders side with speed to burn, but it's very nice to see it.

My point was that the score isn't 41-0 without him.

[julian87]

Loved it, although it's hard not think that it should have been 41-0. Schiller is a defensive liability. Sharks did the same **** to him last week (and last year for that matter)

Without Schiller we're not scoring 41 points.

Without Schiller, they weren't scoring 8.

Maika Sivo beating Albert Hopoate one on one is hardly outside the realms of possibility tbh.

[Finchy]

Loved it, although it's hard not think that it should have been 41-0. Schiller is a defensive liability. Sharks did the same **** to him last week (and last year for that matter)

Without Schiller we're not scoring 41 points.

Without Schiller, they weren't scoring 8. He needs to get on top of that defence.

I think he will though, and I very much like what I'm seeing. It feels a bit odd to have a Raiders side with speed to burn, but it's very nice to see it.

My point was that the score isn't 41-0 without him.

Closer to 35-0 then?

[julian87]

Schiller scored 1 try, let in 2. If he can flip those numbers I can live with it.

If anyone watches the try he scored and doesn't think that 99% of competent NRL wingers should score that thing, they are watching a different game to me

But see that’s not the point. The Timoko try is down to Schiller.

Hopoate is unquestionably unable to ever produce such a play. Ever. In fact he’s so slow he wouldn’t even try. He’d have just stepped in field for a 10+ metre yardage carry.

Schiller, on the other hand, is actually potentially capable of tackling better in the future.

[Canberra Milk]

People worrying too much about defence/handling errors again. A couple of comments on Facebook that Schiller "not first grade quality" as a result. Come on. Are we really that risk averse?? I don't relate to these types. Let's have some fun, let's watch someone who can light up the field a bit

[Canberra Milk]

Whatever position Savage ends up settling into, I hope he is given licence to play it how he sees it and just be an attacking weapon that transcends the number he’s wearing on his back.

He won’t have to look far for inspiration. Remember peak Rapana? Especially in that 2016 season, he’d pop up everywhere on the field to set up or score tries!

He said he spent the offseason watching Leipana and trying to model himself on Rapana, so it's on his agenda for sure

I was hesitant about him on the wing because I thought it might reduce him to just a finisher, but there's early indications he can do more than just that. Blacklock was another great winger who would pop up anywhere

[Seiffert82]

Schiller scored 1 try, let in 2. If he can flip those numbers I can live with it.

If anyone watches the try he scored and doesn't think that 99% of competent NRL wingers should score that thing, they are watching a different game to me

But see that’s not the point. The Timoko try is down to Schiller.

Hopoate is unquestionably unable to ever produce such a play. Ever. In fact he’s so slow he wouldn’t even try. He’d have just stepped in field for a 10+ metre yardage carry.

Schiller, on the other hand, is actually potentially capable of tackling better in the future.

Schiller has a saloon passage 25 metre run with a 10 metre head start. Adrian Purtell scores that thing.

Anyway, I'm not sure why it's turned into a Hopoate vs Schiller discussion. Hoppa has huge issues which I've also pointed out on a regular basis. I don't want Hoppa in the team.

I'm just commenting on the work Schiller needs to do to be a quality NRL winger. Glaring issues that most people don't care about because he's fast.

Hopefully the coaching team perform the same magic on him as they did with Savage, and Schiller's uncle before him just quietly.

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[Seiffert82]

Whatever position Savage ends up settling into, I hope he is given licence to play it how he sees it and just be an attacking weapon that transcends the number he’s wearing on his back.

He won’t have to look far for inspiration. Remember peak Rapana? Especially in that 2016 season, he’d pop up everywhere on the field to set up or score tries!

He said he spent the offseason watching Leipana and trying to model himself on Rapana, so it's on his agenda for sure

I was hesitant about him on the wing because I thought it might reduce him to just a finisher, but there's early indications he can do more than just that. Blacklock was another great winger who would pop up anywhere

Yep, he's becoming the next Rapana. The guy loves getting his hands on the ball.

There is a vein of thought that Stuart can't coach a team to play attacking football. There are a number of examples to prove this is untrue and Leipana is a good one. It's exciting to see Savage model his game on Rapana.

I was very happy with the coaches taking their time with him, now we are reaping the rewards.

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[Rickmando]

Erm, I don’t think Leipana were given much (if any) coaching license, they just took it!

[BadnMean]

People worrying too much about defence/handling errors again. A couple of comments on Facebook that Schiller "not first grade quality" as a result. Come on. Are we really that risk averse?? I don't relate to these types. Let's have some fun, let's watch someone who can light up the field a bit

Fair.

Brett Mullins was also a fairly poor defender in the first couple years he was gradually introduced to FG iirc actually too. Then he actually made a huge leap when he was put in at fb and getting his body on the line and was really good.

So it can happen.

[BJ]

Erm, I don’t think Leipana were given much (if any) coaching license, they just took it!

Ricky has a pretty good track record tightening up a loose player with attacking flair, but not a good record in expanding the attack of a limited player.

I think Leluia probably said as much recently, and both Hudson and Hors have credited Ricky on that too.

I think Bennett has always been great when working with skilled attackers, where as Bellamy has proven to be amazing at expanding more limited players.

[gangrenous]

Also for the other commentators comparing schiller to savage you are dreaming.. Savage is way more dangerous in attack and imo he is a more effective defender.

Savage has played more than twice as many games. More importantly being a consistent starter in 19 games in a season.

Schiller has had a handful of games over years as a fill in. Let’s give him a bit of time to see how he goes when he’s not just popping up here and there as a fill in and can settle into a role.

[Seiffert82]

Erm, I don’t think Leipana were given much (if any) coaching license, they just took it!

Yeah, let's just suspend reality for a minute and pretend every good player goes out there and does anything they want without practicing it on the training park and every bad player goes out there and does exactly what the coach tells them to do.

C'mon now.

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[gangrenous]

The things Leipana did were so devastating partly because they didn’t seem to know what was coming

[julian87]

Schiller scored 1 try, let in 2. If he can flip those numbers I can live with it.

If anyone watches the try he scored and doesn't think that 99% of competent NRL wingers should score that thing, they are watching a different game to me

But see that’s not the point. The Timoko try is down to Schiller.

Hopoate is unquestionably unable to ever produce such a play. Ever. In fact he’s so slow he wouldn’t even try. He’d have just stepped in field for a 10+ metre yardage carry.

Schiller, on the other hand, is actually potentially capable of tackling better in the future.

Schiller has a saloon passage 25 metre run with a 10 metre head start. Adrian Purtell scores that thing.

Anyway, I'm not sure why it's turned into a Hopoate vs Schiller discussion. Hoppa has huge issues which I've also pointed out on a regular basis. I don't want Hoppa in the team.

I'm just commenting on the work Schiller needs to do to be a quality NRL winger. Glaring issues that most people don't care about because he's fast.

Hopefully the coaching team perform the same magic on him as they did with Savage, and Schiller's uncle before him just quietly.

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I don’t disagree that he needs serious work. I can sort of forgive the first Sivo try because if he gets that right it’s a try to us.

The second, I agree, was awful.

I just think it would be crazy to revert to Hopoate. (It has to be the comparison because that’s who Stuart deems #1). You can’t have one of the best damn centres in the game stuck with Hopoate outside him. That’s criminal.

Schiller just has some magic in him with the ball in hand and take my Canberra obsession out of it that’s what we want in rugby league. I had 2 group chats with neutrals this weekend saying he’s a great player because they know I’m a Raiders nut. That’s never said about Cotric or Hopoate.

- the try v Melbourne
- his dominance in NSW Cup early season
- his kick for a repeat set
- his speed burning Sivo and tip toeing down the line.

We’ve got to persevere imo.

[Neeeegz]

Yep, I said big things about him in the pre season, there is just something about him, if he fixes his defence he will make a fine winger or centre in the future.
Definitely should hold his spot, as should savage

[BJ]

Another episode of 360 waiting for some Raiders chat after an impressive win. But 30 minutes of Raiders talk and the rest on other Sydney teams.

[reptar]

Another episode of 360 waiting for some Raiders chat after an impressive win. But 30 minutes of Raiders talk and the rest on other Sydney teams.

Souths talk, you mean?

[Finchy]

Just watched the replay. I don't want to over-hype the kid, but Strange reminds me of Kalyn Ponga. Not that he's a fullback, but he moves, steps, and runs in very similar fashion to Ponga IMO.

[Roger Kenworthy]

Schiller scored 1 try, let in 2. If he can flip those numbers I can live with it.

If anyone watches the try he scored and doesn't think that 99% of competent NRL wingers should score that thing, they are watching a different game to me

But see that’s not the point. The Timoko try is down to Schiller.

Hopoate is unquestionably unable to ever produce such a play. Ever. In fact he’s so slow he wouldn’t even try. He’d have just stepped in field for a 10+ metre yardage carry.

Schiller, on the other hand, is actually potentially capable of tackling better in the future.

Schiller has a saloon passage 25 metre run with a 10 metre head start. Adrian Purtell scores that thing.

Anyway, I'm not sure why it's turned into a Hopoate vs Schiller discussion. Hoppa has huge issues which I've also pointed out on a regular basis. I don't want Hoppa in the team.

I'm just commenting on the work Schiller needs to do to be a quality NRL winger. Glaring issues that most people don't care about because he's fast.

Hopefully the coaching team perform the same magic on him as they did with Savage, and Schiller's uncle before him just quietly.

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I don’t disagree that he needs serious work. I can sort of forgive the first Sivo try because if he gets that right it’s a try to us.

The second, I agree, was awful.

I just think it would be crazy to revert to Hopoate. (It has to be the comparison because that’s who Stuart deems #1). You can’t have one of the best damn centres in the game stuck with Hopoate outside him. That’s criminal.

Schiller just has some magic in him with the ball in hand and take my Canberra obsession out of it that’s what we want in rugby league. I had 2 group chats with neutrals this weekend saying he’s a great player because they know I’m a Raiders nut. That’s never said about Cotric or Hopoate.

- the try v Melbourne
- his dominance in NSW Cup early season
- his kick for a repeat set
- his speed burning Sivo and tip toeing down the line.

We’ve got to persevere imo.

Cotric and Hoppa have both had about 20 games to nail down that spot so Schiller definitely deserves more of a run. In the brief unlimited interchange error he could have subbed with Cotric every set

[BJ]

Yes Souths talk.

[Rick]

I would like to see Schiller tapped on the shoulder and be told it’s his spot for the next 5-10 games. Hoppa was given the same opportunity last year and could not nail it down. As others have said it’s easier to fix Schillers defence, contact and decision making than it is making Hoppa 5kmph faster. For what it’s worth I don’t think Schiller is too far away.

This would also be a bonus for Timoko as with Schillers pace outside of him the wingers need to stay off him a bit longer. With Hoppa outside of him you take the gamble of going all in on Timoko knowing the cover will easily get Hoppa.

Same in defence, with the pace we have on the wings teams are not going to try and run around us.


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[Billy Walker]

I love this analysis that Hoppa couldn’t nail down the position- umm he’s played more games than not this year and last. Don’t let your opinions on him change reality - he is the starting incumbent. He has nailed down a spot in the team. He has taken Cotric’s spot (hence him being in first grade and Cotric NSW Cup). Schiller has a chance to turn Hoppas misfortune into his own good fortune. Whether he will remains to be seen, but to pretend Hoppa hasn’t nailed down a position is absurd.

[RedRaider]

Just watched the replay. I don't want to over-hype the kid, but Strange reminds me of Kalyn Ponga. Not that he's a fullback, but he moves, steps, and runs in very similar fashion to Ponga IMO.

While it's not a good thing to compare rookie players with past or present players, the similarity for me is to a young Bob Fulton. Chunky build, good acceleration and pace and also a reliable defender who is not intimidated as a teenager against men. To think Ethan is still coming to terms with the pace of NRL footy, his early career in FG has been impressive. There will be some yo yo form as he settles in, but he plays with such confidence that he looks ready for a successful career in the NRL.

[Hong Kong Raider]

Just watched the game on delay. The game and the way we played gave me tremendous enjoyment. I haven't seen us play like that for a long time. Most of the tries were long range breaks. Credit to Ricky and the coaching staff for not shutting up shop with conservative grindball when we had handling problems the week before.

I love our pace on the wings and would not be changing anything.