A new Canberra Stadium

[zim]

This is madness.

[BJ]

What are the ideas for the ACT in terms of budget. Is 628m something they could scrounge together?

Less cost than just 1.7km of Light Rail

[Billy Walker]

What are the ideas for the ACT in terms of budget. Is 628m something they could scrounge together?

Less cost than just 1.7km of Light Rail

But significantly greater cost than a pineapple. The point being that a stadium, a light rail project and a pineapple are 3 very different things that each serve a different purpose and have different usage rates and broader benefits. Comparing a single criteria of cost is meaningless as they are not like for like things.

[BJ]

What are the ideas for the ACT in terms of budget. Is 628m something they could scrounge together?

Less cost than just 1.7km of Light Rail

But significantly greater cost than a pineapple. The point being that a stadium, a light rail project and a pineapple are 3 very different things that each serve a different purpose and have different usage rates and broader benefits. Comparing a single criteria of cost is meaningless as they are not like for like things.

Did you make a New Year’s resolution to “state the obvious”.

It’s about cost to budget and it’s about priorities and the Sports Minister already conceded stage 1 Light Rail delayed the new stadium.

[Billy Walker]

What are the ideas for the ACT in terms of budget. Is 628m something they could scrounge together?

Less cost than just 1.7km of Light Rail

But significantly greater cost than a pineapple. The point being that a stadium, a light rail project and a pineapple are 3 very different things that each serve a different purpose and have different usage rates and broader benefits. Comparing a single criteria of cost is meaningless as they are not like for like things.

Did you make a New Year’s resolution to “state the obvious”.

It’s about cost to budget and it’s about priorities and the Sports Minister already conceded stage 1 Light Rail delayed the new stadium.

Correct - it is about cost to budget and priorities, so the single criteria pricing comparison you often make adds nothing to the debate.

[Raider Azz]

This is madness.

[greeneyed]

'You're accommodating your people': Stuart envious of new Christchurch stadium

They've got a new stadium coming in Christchurch and it should be finished by 2026.mThat's about seven years earlier than Canberra will get one, with the ACT government planning to have a new one for the capital by 2033.

"Yeah great ... You've got a packed stadium here. You're going to get a brand-new stadium in a year-and-a-half aren't you?" Stuart said after Canberra's clash with the Warriors. "You're accommodating your people and doing a good job for them because this is a little bit older now.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

'Tell me what you learnt': Berry's call to Raiders

Raiders chief executive Don Furner, chairman Dennis Richardson and board members visited the Te Kaha stadium site in Christchurch on Friday before Canberra's NRL clash with the New Zealand Warriors.

"I spoke with Don Furner earlier this week about stadiums more generally. He did mention he was over in Christchurch. I said 'take lots of photos and ask lots of questions and tell me what you learnt'," Sports Minister Yvette Berry said. "I'm always open to a conversation with them."

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

[zim]

This is madness.

I'm glad someone picked it up

[RedRaider]

'You're accommodating your people': Stuart envious of new Christchurch stadium

They've got a new stadium coming in Christchurch and it should be finished by 2026.mThat's about seven years earlier than Canberra will get one, with the ACT government planning to have a new one for the capital by 2033.

"Yeah great ... You've got a packed stadium here. You're going to get a brand-new stadium in a year-and-a-half aren't you?" Stuart said after Canberra's clash with the Warriors. "You're accommodating your people and doing a good job for them because this is a little bit older now.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

'Tell me what you learnt': Berry's call to Raiders

Raiders chief executive Don Furner, chairman Dennis Richardson and board members visited the Te Kaha stadium site in Christchurch on Friday before Canberra's NRL clash with the New Zealand Warriors.

"I spoke with Don Furner earlier this week about stadiums more generally. He did mention he was over in Christchurch. I said 'take lots of photos and ask lots of questions and tell me what you learnt'," Sports Minister Yvette Berry said. "I'm always open to a conversation with them."

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

"Tell me what you learnt?" That politicians who want to provide 21st century facilities for people living in a City with similar climate to the ACT can do it, if there is political will. Christchurch leaders have the will, ACT leaders .....

[BJ]

Yvette Berry says “tell me what you’ve learnt”. I’m guessing she believes the Raiders can learn more in a single away game than her government can learn from the seven feasibility studies and millions wasted in meaningless research and artist’s impressions.

[Dr Zaius]

Interesting podcast on the Tasmanian election and its implications for stadium infrastructure funding: https://pca.st/episode/c8ed172b-9c8f-4f ... 09b51cabbf

[gangrenous]

Save me listening Zaius - what’re the implications?

No new stadia while in an economic downturn because of the swing against the government?

[Dr Zaius]

Save me listening Zaius - what’re the implications?

No new stadia while in an economic downturn because of the swing against the government?

More or less. Suggests the way to make it happen is private/public partnership like docklands stadium

[greeneyed]

Save me listening Zaius - what’re the implications?

No new stadia while in an economic downturn because of the swing against the government?

More or less. Suggests the way to make it happen is private/public partnership like docklands stadium

Not sure it was a public/private partnership, a private consortium (I believe) developed it and quickly went bankrupt. And the distressed asset was picked up for a song by the AFL. It cost $460 million to build and the AFL picked it up for $200 million. That’s basically the only way it made sense for the AFL to run a stadium. Because the rate of return on the investment might have become vaguely commercial for them. Somehow they’ve since convinced the State government to fund upgrades.

It has been hilarious seeing Paul Kent etc on NRL 360 going on and on about Leichhardt Oval. Kent even went to V’landys with his idea that the NRL should buy Leichhardt and fix it up, claiming that was consistent with the NRL’s strategy of building an asset base. Except that the NRL is busily buying assets like hotels which are likely to generate very strong rates of return on the investment (ie the flow of revenue). V’landys foolishly told Kent they’d look at it. When they spend five seconds doing that, they’ll work out that a silly idea. (Actually, on checking, V’landys said that if “they wanted to give us Leichhardt Oval we’d be interested”… and that’s not buying it!)

I don’t blame the NSW government for not wanting to fix Leichhardt as the Tigers play less than a handful of games at the venue. If you expect government to intervene, you at least need to commit to playing all your home games there, so they have a major tenant. And anyone who has been to Leichhardt will know it can’t handle even a small NRL crowd. Traffic is a disaster. You basically can’t get in or out. It a picturesque location, but it’s only suitable as a community sport ground. NSW Cup at most.

[bonehead]

raiders leagues should build something then charge the brumbies, concerts and soccer to use it - leave the mayor of Queanbeyan with egg on his face and a stadium he can't use.

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[Billy Walker]

raiders leagues should build something then charge the brumbies, concerts and soccer to use it - leave the mayor of Queanbeyan with egg on his face and a stadium he can't use.

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

Boney - GEs point is the ROI for a stadium is so low it would be a horrendous decision for the raiders to do that. Stadiums are not an investment. That is why you see it is a key election issue in Tasmania. The decision has been made to go ahead in Hobart, the push from large parts of the community down there is to scrap it, as they see a greater need for the funding elsewhere. You are on a forum that is obviously going to be pro-stadium. Don’t kid yourself into believing the views are necessarily representative of the broader community.

[RedRaider]

There is also the continuing controversy as to whether the new stadium would make money (see report from the Guardian below) or lose money (see report from the ABC below). Is the view optimistic or pessimistic. Interesting that the optimists include 7 NRL games per year.

Controversial new Tasmanian AFL stadium could add $226m a year to economy, report finds: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... y-benefits

Hobart's proposed AFL stadium would deliver $306m loss over 20 years, analysis says: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-20/ ... /101870704

[Billy Walker]

There is also the continuing controversy as to whether the new stadium would make money (see report from the Guardian below) or lose money (see report from the ABC below). Is the view optimistic or pessimistic. Interesting that the optimists include 7 NRL games per year.

Controversial new Tasmanian AFL stadium could add $226m a year to economy, report finds: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... y-benefits

Hobart's proposed AFL stadium would deliver $306m loss over 20 years, analysis says: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-20/ ... /101870704

If there is a dollar to be made in something the private sector is all over it. The stadium runs at a loss. The broader benefits include things like less strain on the health system from angry raiders supporters with frostbite

[BJ]

The ACT government told us each GWS Giants game in Canberra brings an extra $1 million dollars into the region.

Can anyone imagine how creative the accounting has to be to determine that figure.

[BJ]

Does anyone know if the AFL pay to rent Manuka oval on game day like the Raiders, Brumbies do for Bruce stadium?

[greeneyed]

I would bet the estimate of the benefit to cost ratio of 0.5 for the Tasmanian stadium (that is, the costs are double the benefits) is the estimate that is closest to the mark. The inclusion of “wider economic benefits” is always controversial in cost benefit analysis, as estimating them is a hairy exercise. Often studies don’t consider the displacement of other economic activity, thereby overstating the benefits, or understate costs.

Of course a benefit cost ratio of less than 1.0 shouldn’t rule out the public infrastructure investment. The community might still want to proceed as they judge it’s worthwhile. For example, the ACT is building Stage 2A to Commonwealth Park which has a benefit to cost ratio of 0.38-0.56. The whole of Stage 2 has benefit to cost of 0.6 excluding wider economic benefits, 1.0 including them.

This ACT Audit Office report is worth reading if you’re very keen: https://www.audit.act.gov.au/__data/ass ... alysis.pdf. This is an oversimplification, but it suggests the estimates understate the capital and other costs and of Stage 2A are understated, and wider benefits overstated.

The galling thing in some of these debates is that people are quite prepared to tell you that, say, building a tram, has much greater priority than building a stadium… because of the economic benefits of said tram. When in all likelihood, the costs of that also significantly outweigh the benefits.

[greeneyed]

The ACT government told us each GWS Giants game in Canberra brings an extra $1 million dollars into the region.

Can anyone imagine how creative the accounting has to be to determine that figure.

It would rely on dodgy estimates of “wider economic benefits”.

[greeneyed]

Does anyone know if the AFL pay to rent Manuka oval on game day like the Raiders, Brumbies do for Bruce stadium?

The stadium deals for all three involve hiring fees. The difference is that the AFL/GWS deal for Manuka, includes much more significant financial incentives than the Brumbies and Raiders.

These were the figures reported at the end of 2022:

When the figures are broken down on a per-game basis, the Giants' new deal [$950,000 per men's premiership game or over $700,000 per game if you include a preseason match] dwarfs those of the Raiders [about $210,000 per men's home game] and Brumbies [about $250,000 per men's home match]. Both Canberra-based clubs have been angered by the major difference in per-game fees.

https://www.thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p1900053

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

[greeneyed]

State Government starts feasibility study about building $300m roof over Sydney’s biggest venue

The State Government has formally commissioned a feasibility study to build a $300m roof over Stadium Australia, finally giving Sydney a modern arena for sports fans and global artists. Sporting tenants at the stadium – including the NRL, South Sydney and Canterbury Bulldogs – have been approached and asked for feedback. There appears to be little appetite – or funds – for any redevelopment at Stadium Australia other than the possibility of a roof. A roof would cost between $200m and $300m.

One source said: “The feasibility study will be about how many concerts could be packed into the stadium if they put a roof on. The big cash cow now is concerts, it’s not necessarily about rugby league.”

Read more: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 01a5af2838

Complete and utter wast of money without fixing up the configuration of the stadium. And given the roof would be non retractable, how do they expect the grass will grow? I imagine what they’ve done at Las Vegas is rather expensive…

[greeneyed]

Raiders may be invited back to Christchurch

Christchurch council and stadium officials are considering making an offer for the Raiders to play at the new Te Kaha Stadium when it opens in 2026. Organisers are keen to secure content to celebrate the official opening and may reach out to gauge the Raiders’ interest in playing a game - either an away or home fixture - against the Warriors in the city.

With the Raiders in the mix to go to Las Vegas for the opening round next year, the Green Machine might become rugby league's greatest travelling roadshow.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... expansion/

Presumably the Raiders would have to pay a big penalty to the ACT government for it to happen. We can’t expect to do this if there is ever a new stadium.

[RedRaider]

The side is the NEW ZEALAND Warriors so I imagine they would not care so much if the opening of the new Stadium in Christchurch is a home game for them, than if they were still the Auckland Warriors. They re-branded themselves in 2001.

[The Nickman]

I thought the raiders already were the NRL’s greatest traveling clownshow?

[greeneyed]

The nine stadiums in rival cities that can be a blueprint for rectifying Canberra's debacle

The dedicated ones will be there this weekend, even if the rain pours down as expected on Saturday. But how many more would join them if there was a roof at Canberra Stadium?

Is there a blueprint out there that can help fast-track Andrew Barr's plan to get it done for a decent price with all the bells and whistles? We compared the stadium developments that have occurred or are occurring elsewhere for some inspiration and also to get a glimpse into the many benefits a more modern venue could bring to Canberra.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14329

[Badger17]

The nine stadiums in rival cities that can be a blueprint for rectifying Canberra's debacle

The dedicated ones will be there this weekend, even if the rain pours down as expected on Saturday. But how many more would join them if there was a roof at Canberra Stadium?

Is there a blueprint out there that can help fast-track Andrew Barr's plan to get it done for a decent price with all the bells and whistles? We compared the stadium developments that have occurred or are occurring elsewhere for some inspiration and also to get a glimpse into the many benefits a more modern venue could bring to Canberra.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14329

I don't understand the obsession some people have with Forsyth Barr Stadium.

The design of it's roof functions like a greenhouse, which is great for Dunedin, but would be a nightmare on the hotter spring and summer days in Canberra. Playing or sitting in it on a 30° day would make you feel like an ant being burnt by a kid with a magnifying glass.

[Seiffert82]

Personal opinion... we don't need an enclosed stadium, just one that has proper cover and decent facilities for the entire crowd.

Our minimum temps in winter are colder than Dunedin, but our maximums are warmer and we are significantly hotter in summer and the shoulder seasons.

There are some fabulous stadiums in North America and the UK that embrace the cool winter (even regular snow). Why is that such an issue in Canberra, where it's actually not that cold.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

[Badger17]

Personal opinion... we don't need an enclosed stadium, just one that has proper cover and decent facilities for the entire crowd.

Our minimum temps in winter are colder than Dunedin, but our maximums are warmer and we are significantly hotter in summer and the shoulder seasons.

There are some fabulous stadiums in North America and the UK that embrace the cool winter (even regular snow). Why is that such an issue in Canberra, where it's actually not that cold.

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I agree. It'll be fine as long as the drip line covers the majority of the crowd and there's shelter from the wind.

If they are going with an enclosed stadium it will need a retractable roof, retractable pitch, or grow lights, all of which are prohibitively expensive.

Location is much more important. No matter how it's built it'll be a waste of money if it's built in Bruce or Epic.

[Billy Walker]

Can they add in a covered stadium?

[Cranky Old Man]

Can they add in a covered stadium?

I firmly believe that the only chance for the Raiders to play in a modern stadium is to return to Queanbeyan. It wont happen in Canberra.

[greeneyed]

Can they add in a covered stadium?

I firmly believe that the only chance for the Raiders to play in a modern stadium is to return to Queanbeyan. It wont happen in Canberra.

There’s much, much, much less chance of it happening in Queanbeyan.

[Cranky Old Man]

Queanbeyan is in a marginal electorate in federal government and in state government. The ALP seems to be in "government for life" mode in the ACT and none of the seats are marginal. Barr seems unlikely to move on, seems not to have any special marketable skills to get another equivalent job elsewhere and he doesnt like NRL and will push most resources towards AFL.
Hence, I dont believe there will be a proper stadium for the Raiders in the next 25 or more years, but the chances are slightly better in NSW for political reasons.