2024 Round 3 v Warriors: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

[Botman]

Saying the dressing room and the players revolt had nothing to with Furner's sacking is not just re-writing history.
It's burning history books to ashes and replacing it with sci-fi fiction

[RedRaider]

As is usual for me, I'll be interested to see how DL performs defensively against the Warriors pack.

I was curious about this, because i felt the same about his performance defensively being poor, in both work rate and efficiency, but understanding my own bias i wanted to get a more objective look at what is being done... compare him to to other hookers around the league.

This is a 2 game sample size, so no big however:


*Source NRL FoxSports Stat Lab

Levi is dead last in the league for defensive work rate for hookers in tackles per minute
He's 2nd last in the league for TE%, 2nd only to a bloke who ranks 2nd on work rate.
He's 4th last in MT's per minute.

So despite the lowest work rate in the league, he's still one of the least effective defensive hookers in the league through 2 weeks.

Thanks for this Botman. Only a small sample size but it shows that DL is not being over worked defensively. It also adds to a point Boney made in another thread about the lateral movement (or lack thereof) of the A defender, covering the area behind the ruck. If a player is not being over worked in defence, they should have the energy/fitness level to cover this space. Something for DL to work on. Then the issue is, if you get into position to make the tackle then you better make it. That is a separate issue for DL to work on imo.

[NoMan]

Saying the dressing room and the players revolt had nothing to with Furner's sacking is not just re-writing history.
It's burning history books to ashes and replacing it with sci-fi fiction

Yeah, for reference

Terry Campese and Brett White led player revolt that saw coach David Furner sacked: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... beea5cb28e

Honestly, its a shame it happened. I don't think he was as bad a coach as people made out, he just had a fatal flaw when it came to those junior players.

[kiwi raider]

to be fair we have dominated posession in both games so far so that would throw his work rate stats off a bit, probably need a few more games to get an accurate look at things

Come on Kiwi!
You didnt think i come prepared for this...


What ever impact possession had would impact our entire squad.
2 games is indeed a small sample size, so something to monitor, but he needs to lift his work rate and his efficiency because right now defensively he's arguably the poorest performing hooker in the league and the poorest performing middle defender in our team

The Man is prepared! fair call, great stats, will keep a close eye on him from the stands tonight!

[RedRaider]

to be fair we have dominated posession in both games so far so that would throw his work rate stats off a bit, probably need a few more games to get an accurate look at things

Come on Kiwi!
You didnt think i come prepared for this...


What ever impact possession had would impact our entire squad.
2 games is indeed a small sample size, so something to monitor, but he needs to lift his work rate and his efficiency because right now defensively he's arguably the poorest performing hooker in the league and the poorest performing middle defender in our team

This adds to the Saulo v Guler debate. Guler has been given 14 more minutes in playing time over two games, but has 6 missed tackles to Saulo's 1. My personal bias it to go with the better defensive players. Speaking of which, Papa only having 2 missed tackles over 2 games and Starling 0 with limited minutes played. Smithies, leads the tackle count at 73 and only 2 misses - Wow.

[Botman]

Thanks for this Botman. Only a small sample size but it shows that DL is not being over worked defensively. It also adds to a point Boney made in another thread about the lateral movement (or lack thereof) of the A defender, covering the area behind the ruck. If a player is not being over worked in defence, they should have the energy/fitness level to cover this space. Something for DL to work on. Then the issue is, if you get into position to make the tackle then you better make it. That is a separate issue for DL to work on imo.

One thing i've thought about on this since the posts that could be a factor, is Levi is coming off a year in which he broke his jaw twice
This might just be early season apprehension of sticking his head in on first contact which would be understandable given that context.

[The Nickman]

It’s not that I am disagreeing or agreeing. It just doesn’t make sense. He would be hurting his chances of staying on as coach by signing an underperforming player. What you’re saying isn’t right in any way possible.

I genuinely think it’s sad for people to have agendas. And don’t get me wrong, I think he’s made an absolute motza of the team this week but who am I to judge? He would have considerably more insight than the experts here.

The players he “lost” left. Hodgo, Bateman, GWilly, Sutton. EW stayed and backed the coach, got rewarded for his loyalty. Not saying it’s the smartest decision by the club because he’s still here 3 years later on big coin and not contributing. But it’s happened. I have no agenda. Ricky makes some good decisions, some bad. He’s here for the foreseeable future. I’m not calling for his head.

So Funchy, in a debate when someone debunks what you have said you don’t just say the same thing again. Reg has made his case against your points so try not to be boring and repetitive and maybe introduce something new. Also feel free to try these helpful hints if anyone ever invites you to a BBQ.

Hey Billy, look what found - you agreeing with what I’m saying in the EW Re-signing thread, only it wasn’t me saying it! Enjoy: https://www.thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p1820722

Goodness Finchy smashed that one into the goal so hard it went through the net.

Billy Shadowboxing away after being caught holding contrary positions.

Hahaha I miss Shadowboxer.

That's about all I have to say about the pages and pages of nonsense I've just had to read through. Finchy really should know better than to get sucked into engaging the troll.

[Riaan]

There should really be a gentleman’s agreement that if you really need to engage with Billy you refrain from quoting him, as the majority of the board have him blocked and have no interest in accidentally reading his ‘opinions’

[BJ]

So I just sat through the Matt Johns Show to get about 20 seconds of talk about the Raiders.

Souths got more coverage in one episode of 360 than the Raiders have had in all the episodes of the key rugby league shows this season.

Why do you care so much?

Because I care for the club, our fans and the great game of rugby league.

The rugby league media needs to better care for the game not just short sighted focus on a few already very well covered stories.

[pickles]

Thanks for this Botman. Only a small sample size but it shows that DL is not being over worked defensively. It also adds to a point Boney made in another thread about the lateral movement (or lack thereof) of the A defender, covering the area behind the ruck. If a player is not being over worked in defence, they should have the energy/fitness level to cover this space. Something for DL to work on. Then the issue is, if you get into position to make the tackle then you better make it. That is a separate issue for DL to work on imo.

One thing i've thought about on this since the posts that could be a factor, is Levi is coming off a year in which he broke his jaw twice
This might just be early season apprehension of sticking his head in on first contact which would be understandable given that context.

Have you thought about the fact that missed tackles is a useless stat without context and *checks notes should be fired into the sun?

[Botman]

Thanks for this Botman. Only a small sample size but it shows that DL is not being over worked defensively. It also adds to a point Boney made in another thread about the lateral movement (or lack thereof) of the A defender, covering the area behind the ruck. If a player is not being over worked in defence, they should have the energy/fitness level to cover this space. Something for DL to work on. Then the issue is, if you get into position to make the tackle then you better make it. That is a separate issue for DL to work on imo.

One thing i've thought about on this since the posts that could be a factor, is Levi is coming off a year in which he broke his jaw twice
This might just be early season apprehension of sticking his head in on first contact which would be understandable given that context.

Have you thought about the fact that missed tackles is a useless stat without context and *checks notes should be fired into the sun?

Yep, certainly have. The miss tackle stat is very problematic imo for reasons i've outlined many times... the issues i have with it are significantly less prevalent when you're talking about middle defenders as opposed to edge defenders who are routinely faced with more difficult assignments that require the additional context, and lead the charge in things like kick chase where there is a lot of mistackles for first contact defenders against excellent ball runners that ultimately amount to nothing.
The closer to the middle you get, the less context that is required for mistackles, IMO anyways.

With that all being said, the miss tackles from Levi are not really my issue, it's his defensive work rate that bothers me. It's nearly impossible to spend 60 minutes as a middle defender and not collect 25+ tackles the modern RL. You can look at the stats yourself for middle defenders and save for Lolo the only players near his low tackle counts numbers are well under 100 minutes played.

[Bluesbrother]

It’s not that I am disagreeing or agreeing. It just doesn’t make sense. He would be hurting his chances of staying on as coach by signing an underperforming player. What you’re saying isn’t right in any way possible.

I genuinely think it’s sad for people to have agendas. And don’t get me wrong, I think he’s made an absolute motza of the team this week but who am I to judge? He would have considerably more insight than the experts here.

I’ll answer this one for Finchy.

It absolutely makes sense if the coach has the expectation that their tenure is based on the support of the dressing room, and not winning games of football.

That may seem strange, but is shown to be historically accurate. The club announced Furner could lose whatever is was… 30 games in a row or something and have the job still. But the players were lost and revolted and THAT cost his job.

P.S. To “make a motza” is to make a lot of money. Not to mess something up.

You’re right. Motza is the wrong word. What I meant was Shemozzle.

You’re wrong however if you think that the tenure of a coach isn’t based on winning games as you state. That couldn’t be further from the truth.

Who do you think will last longer? A coach with a 100% win rate and the players think the coach is a **** or a coach with a win rate of 0% but all the players are his best mates?

You’ve given one sample about Furner which is irrelevant to the overall concept. And for what it’s worth, Furner was an unbelievable player but a horrible coach, combined with the fact we had some bad seeds who amounted to nothing in the NRL. It had nothing to do with the dressing room.

I think the other thing that needs to be considered is the ability of the squad. The reason JD at souths is under pressure is because he has a very talented squad. A lot more talented than ours on paper but they have played very poorly to start the year/end last year/didn't make the finals.

Coaches should be judged on their squad. People crap on about Bennett and I'm not doubting he is an outstanding coach but those Broncos teams were basically and origin side at the time. He did a good job but certainly didn't over achieve.

[Regs Revolution]

Who do you think will last longer? A coach with a 100% win rate and the players think the coach is a **** or a coach with a win rate of 0% but all the players are his best mates?

You’ve given one sample about Furner which is irrelevant to the overall concept. And for what it’s worth, Furner was an unbelievable player but a horrible coach, combined with the fact we had some bad seeds who amounted to nothing in the NRL. It had nothing to do with the dressing room.

The factual history of sacking a coach and public statements from the club are irrelevant?! Come on, I’m not discussing if you’re going to be ridiculous.

Picking Whitehead is not the difference between a 100% record or a 0% record. So the coach may well be willing to take a risk of lower win rate for team support. Because history shows the players come for you before the board does.

You stated this:

“It absolutely makes sense if the coach has the expectation that their tenure is based on the support of the dressing room, and not winning games of football”

If you really think this is what NRL coaches going into a gig think like, you have NFI

[Regs Revolution]

Saying the dressing room and the players revolt had nothing to with Furner's sacking is not just re-writing history.
It's burning history books to ashes and replacing it with sci-fi fiction

If you objectively posted once in a while rather than subjectively looking at something and quoting one liners in an overall statement, it would provide for better reading than the equivalent of dribble. You’re better than that.

[Raidernation]

I had noticed both the mistackles and the low work rate but sometimes you see what you want to see... men lie, women lie... numbers dont
2 games is admittedly a very small sample size and that could very easily normalise over the next 3-4 weeks and i'll check back in on that after round 5 but i too found it interesting.

It's such an abnormally low tackle count that it has to be by design.
Without watching the games over I would say either he is being asked to stand off and coordinate the defence and then fill gaps or they are hiding him in defence.
It'll be interesting to see what it is.

[The Nickman]

There should really be a gentleman’s agreement that if you really need to engage with Billy you refrain from quoting him, as the majority of the board have him blocked and have no interest in accidentally reading his ‘opinions’

I 100% agree with this sentiment. For some reason, I STILL have to read his crap, mainly because people persist with quoting him.

What's even the point of the block feature if you still have to read said garbage?

[Dylan’s Raiders]

2:10 onwards folded me.


Need a big game from our bench forwards - let’s hope Guler and Saulo can show the fans why they have been picked and repay the coaches faith.

[Shiv]

oh man is that funny.

T O M - worst tattoo ever....

[Hong Kong Raider]

Thanks for drawing our attention to this. I had a bit of a laugh at Fog's comments on Cotric and his look of disdain: "Was he here for ages ? He's officially the dumbest person to have played for NSW and Australia, not even kidding. Genuine dumb."

We as fans feel the same way about some of our players when they do dumb stuff on the field.

[Lamenting Actions]

Change room footage. Zac just checking to see if the meat and two veg are intact. Very important.

[InFernos_Raiders]

So here we go again Stuart making another stupid call. Hosking should start Whitehead should be on the bench or NSW Cup. Also, Smithies will probably rotate with Corey when he returns. Simply, why change a winning side just because. Stuart tends to do this a lot if he had any balls he would dump Whitehead to NSW Cup get some match fitness and form. Bring in Mooney he is killing in the NSW Cup. Simply put Stuart should stick with the exact team he has had for the last two weeks. It’s a kick in the guts to Hosking because there is noway Whitehead can tackle or leap in the air or have the speed Hosking has.

Whitehrad? Whithaed? Smithers? Hoskimg?

Mike is that you?

[InFernos_Raiders]

So here we go again Stuart making another stupid call. Hosking should start Whitehead should be on the bench or NSW Cup. Also, Smithies will probably rotate with Corey when he returns. Simply, why change a winning side just because. Stuart tends to do this a lot if he had any balls he would dump Whitehead to NSW Cup get some match fitness and form. Bring in Mooney he is killing in the NSW Cup. Simply put Stuart should stick with the exact team he has had for the last two weeks. It’s a kick in the guts to Hosking because there is noway Whitehead can tackle or leap in the air or have the speed Hosking has.

Whitehrad? Whithaed? Smithers? Hoskimg?

Mike is that you?

No just had a few drinks and didn’t check my comment. Sorry about that.

[Finchy]

So here we go again Stuart making another stupid call. Hosking should start Whitehead should be on the bench or NSW Cup. Also, Smithies will probably rotate with Corey when he returns. Simply, why change a winning side just because. Stuart tends to do this a lot if he had any balls he would dump Whitehead to NSW Cup get some match fitness and form. Bring in Mooney he is killing in the NSW Cup. Simply put Stuart should stick with the exact team he has had for the last two weeks. It’s a kick in the guts to Hosking because there is noway Whitehead can tackle or leap in the air or have the speed Hosking has.

Whitehrad? Whithaed? Smithers? Hoskimg?

Mike is that you?

Haha well played, just like Mike!

[InFernos_Raiders]

Who the EDIT is Mike?

[Finchy]

Who the EDIT is Mike?

Another poster who spells all the players names incorrectly and quotes other posters without leaving a comment, just like above.

You mean that wasn’t intentional? My bad, I thought you were doing a ‘Mike’. Moving on...

[The Nickman]

Who the EDIT is Mike?

mike? You don't know who mike is?

He's only the greatest poster this forum has ever seen!

By far has the best game-day analysis.