2024 Round 1 v Knights: Game Day

[greeneyed]

But he was dropped to the bench in Round 7 and also played NSW Cup in Round 8. He'd struggled seriously all year with form. Every man and his parrot was pushing for Savage. I'm not sure that it was as clear cut as that.

[Seiffert82]

But he was dropped to the bench in Round 7 and also played NSW Cup in Round 8. He'd struggled seriously all year with form. Every man and his parrot was pushing for Savage. I'm not sure that it was as clear cut as that.

Yes, he was struggling for form. Maybe something to do with returning from injury and being keen to be in NZ with his kids.

The fact the fans were desperate for Savage to play fullback is largely irrelevant. Ricky selects the team. I'm not sure he listens to the Muppets. (His words, not mine.)

He was on the bench in Rd 7 and 8, but was back at Fullback in Rd 9.

You can't seriously believe he negotiated a release from the club and new contract with the Warriors between Rd 12 when he was dropped to NSW Cup and Rd 16 when his release was announced.

[Botman]

I think there was a pretty healthy dose of each
Certainly it seems clear that CNK wanted to be home and close to his kids, and struggled in his final year here and i can understand that
Conversely it was clear we as a club has decided we were going in other directions at fullback but his emotions on leaving the club told a story too.

I think there was a lot of factors at play. I dont think he'd have been completely happy to stay here if he had the fullback job because i think his family matters were very important.
But it was what it was and he left and he's gotten with a coaching staff who has developed him in a way that unlocked him in one offseason more than ours did in 3 full seasons. Our club and its coaches need to take stock of that. What are they doing that has gotten this level of play out of him that we didnt?
And he's not suddenly able to promote the football and ball play because he's close to his kids. It's coaching, it's football. We built the man up be a certain level of player but were unable to unlock the very best him? The warriors could.
Why?

[Raidernation]

I think there was a pretty healthy dose of each
Certainly it seems clear that CNK wanted to be home and close to his kids, and struggled in his final year here and i can understand that
Conversely it was clear we as a club has decided we were going in other directions at fullback but his emotions on leaving the club told a story too.

I think there was a lot of factors at play. I dont think he'd have been completely happy to stay here if he had the fullback job because i think his family matters were very important.
But it was what it was and he left and he's gotten with a coaching staff who has developed him in a way that unlocked him in one offseason more than ours did in 3 full seasons. Our club and its coaches need to take stock of that. What are they doing that has gotten this level of play out of him that we didnt?
And he's not suddenly able to promote the football and ball play because he's close to his kids. It's coaching, it's football. We built the man up be a certain level of player but were unable to unlock the very best him? The warriors could.
Why?

This take is pretty ridiculous TBH. This coaching staff took a career reserve grader and turned him into the best defensive fullback in the league in 1 season. A fullback who got the club to a grand final and make no mistake, we don't get to the grand final without him.
They couldn't unlock his passing game which the warriors have and they clearly have to figure the attack out but to discount where he came from and the level we got him to is crazy.

[greeneyed]

Hosking’s dream debut

When Zac Hosking signed with the Raiders, it looked unlikely he’d break into the starting 17. But after a calf injury to captain Elliott Whitehead, Hosking was thrust into the run on side and delivered on club debut. The Raiders have previously been in the market for an edge forward and their public pursuits of David Fifita and Luciano Leilua have been well publicised.

But should Hosking continue to prove his worth in the nation’s capital, Stuart could utilise those funds elsewhere and potentially target a partner for Jamal Fogarty.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... mpaign=crm

[LimeGreenMachine]

Why would we target a partner for Fogs. It's Strange and Weekes position , there's no doubt in my mind Strange is a NRL 5/8.

[Finchy]

I think there was a pretty healthy dose of each
Certainly it seems clear that CNK wanted to be home and close to his kids, and struggled in his final year here and i can understand that
Conversely it was clear we as a club has decided we were going in other directions at fullback but his emotions on leaving the club told a story too.

I think there was a lot of factors at play. I dont think he'd have been completely happy to stay here if he had the fullback job because i think his family matters were very important.
But it was what it was and he left and he's gotten with a coaching staff who has developed him in a way that unlocked him in one offseason more than ours did in 3 full seasons. Our club and its coaches need to take stock of that. What are they doing that has gotten this level of play out of him that we didnt?
And he's not suddenly able to promote the football and ball play because he's close to his kids. It's coaching, it's football. We built the man up be a certain level of player but were unable to unlock the very best him? The warriors could.
Why?

This take is pretty ridiculous TBH. This coaching staff took a career reserve grader and turned him into the best defensive fullback in the league in 1 season. A fullback who got the club to a grand final and make no mistake, we don't get to the grand final without him.
They couldn't unlock his passing game which the warriors have and they clearly have to figure the attack out but to discount where he came from and the level we got him to is crazy.

We didn’t “turn” him into anything. We gave a talented guy who was stuck behind the best fullback in the game a chance to play regular first grade. He’d scored 7 tries in his first 7 games at the Warriors before we poached him. He was talented already and we gave him an opportunity. He took it. Much like Rapana. All effort and desire, not so much coaching.

[The Nickman]

Hosking’s dream debut

When Zac Hosking signed with the Raiders, it looked unlikely he’d break into the starting 17. But after a calf injury to captain Elliott Whitehead, Hosking was thrust into the run on side and delivered on club debut. The Raiders have previously been in the market for an edge forward and their public pursuits of David Fifita and Luciano Leilua have been well publicised.

But should Hosking continue to prove his worth in the nation’s capital, Stuart could utilise those funds elsewhere and potentially target a partner for Jamal Fogarty.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... mpaign=crm

I have to say I was pretty impressed with Hoskings in his first hitout for us.

[Sid]

Hosking’s dream debut

When Zac Hosking signed with the Raiders, it looked unlikely he’d break into the starting 17. But after a calf injury to captain Elliott Whitehead, Hosking was thrust into the run on side and delivered on club debut. The Raiders have previously been in the market for an edge forward and their public pursuits of David Fifita and Luciano Leilua have been well publicised.

But should Hosking continue to prove his worth in the nation’s capital, Stuart could utilise those funds elsewhere and potentially target a partner for Jamal Fogarty.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... mpaign=crm

I have to say I was pretty impressed with Hoskings in his first hitout for us.

Agreed, Hoskings's played better than I expected. I initially valued him as a fringe top 17 player, but now for mine Hoskings's must be named in the 17.

[Seiffert82]

I think there was a pretty healthy dose of each
Certainly it seems clear that CNK wanted to be home and close to his kids, and struggled in his final year here and i can understand that
Conversely it was clear we as a club has decided we were going in other directions at fullback but his emotions on leaving the club told a story too.

I think there was a lot of factors at play. I dont think he'd have been completely happy to stay here if he had the fullback job because i think his family matters were very important.
But it was what it was and he left and he's gotten with a coaching staff who has developed him in a way that unlocked him in one offseason more than ours did in 3 full seasons. Our club and its coaches need to take stock of that. What are they doing that has gotten this level of play out of him that we didnt?
And he's not suddenly able to promote the football and ball play because he's close to his kids. It's coaching, it's football. We built the man up be a certain level of player but were unable to unlock the very best him? The warriors could.
Why?

This take is pretty ridiculous TBH. This coaching staff took a career reserve grader and turned him into the best defensive fullback in the league in 1 season. A fullback who got the club to a grand final and make no mistake, we don't get to the grand final without him.
They couldn't unlock his passing game which the warriors have and they clearly have to figure the attack out but to discount where he came from and the level we got him to is crazy.

We didn’t “turn” him into anything. We gave a talented guy who was stuck behind the best fullback in the game a chance to play regular first grade. He’d scored 7 tries in his first 7 games at the Warriors before we poached him. He was talented already and we have him an opportunity. He took it. Much like Rapana. All effort and desire, not so much coaching.

I personally think most first grade development is about identifying the raw talent and then creating the right environment for them and giving opportunity. So yeah, CNK was a really astute signing by the club IMO. We clearly didn't turn Charnze into a good fullback over a single offseason.

I also recall having a number of conversations about CNK being given more ball playing opportunities in the season before he left the Raiders. You could see the change in his role. Sometimes the execution was clunky as you'd expect from someone taking on a new role. At the time many people wrote him off as not being capable of it. That opinion hasn't really aged well.

So, similarly, Andrew Webster seems to be a very good coach, but he also didn't turn CNK into a ball playing gun fullback over the course of one offseason. It's a combination of things, which is predominantly about the natural ability of the player himself

[BJ]

Spot on comment Seiffert

[Raidernation]

I think there was a pretty healthy dose of each
Certainly it seems clear that CNK wanted to be home and close to his kids, and struggled in his final year here and i can understand that
Conversely it was clear we as a club has decided we were going in other directions at fullback but his emotions on leaving the club told a story too.

I think there was a lot of factors at play. I dont think he'd have been completely happy to stay here if he had the fullback job because i think his family matters were very important.
But it was what it was and he left and he's gotten with a coaching staff who has developed him in a way that unlocked him in one offseason more than ours did in 3 full seasons. Our club and its coaches need to take stock of that. What are they doing that has gotten this level of play out of him that we didnt?
And he's not suddenly able to promote the football and ball play because he's close to his kids. It's coaching, it's football. We built the man up be a certain level of player but were unable to unlock the very best him? The warriors could.
Why?

This take is pretty ridiculous TBH. This coaching staff took a career reserve grader and turned him into the best defensive fullback in the league in 1 season. A fullback who got the club to a grand final and make no mistake, we don't get to the grand final without him.
They couldn't unlock his passing game which the warriors have and they clearly have to figure the attack out but to discount where he came from and the level we got him to is crazy.

We didn’t “turn” him into anything. We gave a talented guy who was stuck behind the best fullback in the game a chance to play regular first grade. He’d scored 7 tries in his first 7 games at the Warriors before we poached him. He was talented already and we have him an opportunity. He took it. Much like Rapana. All effort and desire, not so much coaching.

I personally think most first grade development is about identifying the raw talent and then creating the right environment for them and giving opportunity. So yeah, CNK was a really astute signing by the club IMO. We clearly didn't turn Charnze into a good fullback over a single offseason.

I also recall having a number of conversations about CNK being given more ball playing opportunities in the season before he left the Raiders. You could see the change in his role. Sometimes the execution was clunky as you'd expect from someone taking on a new role. At the time many people wrote him off as not being capable of it. That opinion hasn't really aged well.

So, similarly, Andrew Webster seems to be a very good coach, but he also didn't turn CNK into a ball playing gun fullback over the course of one offseason. It's a combination of things, which is predominantly about the natural ability of the player himself

I think the coaching helped charnze massively to become a better passer.
I think the coaching at the raiders helped massively to take a reserve grader at 2 clubs into a premier defensive fullback.

Everyone at this level has talent and opportunity is easy to give. The right environment is one of those vague catch all terms which could mean anything. Not saying charnze did nothing for himself but to discount the coaching and development is kinda egregious either by the warriors or raiders.

[Botman]

The reason i discount a lot (but not all) of the "development" done at the Raiders is because when he was selected to be our fullback in 2019, to when he played his last game for us in R11 202 he was the same player.
He didnt have opportunities at the warriors, he got them here, but he never evolved or added to his game.

66 games at fullback and 3 seasons and he was largely the same player as game 1. A good defensive player, work horse and hand brake offensively. You can go back and watch his first game for us and his last game for us and he was not a significantly different footballer. He was better at the things he was good at, no doubt. But he just got better with time/experience at the things he was already good at.
Nothing new was added to his game from 2019 to 2022.

The warriors unlocked a passing game in him in a single off season that we couldnt in 3 years. They added quivers to his bow that we couldnt.

[TongueFTW]

I don’t mean to be rude, but other than finals games did you watch the Warriors last year? CNK was hardly a ball playing machine, his game was very similar to the way he played for the Raiders. He only recorded 3 additional try assists compared to 2019 and 2020 (6 vs. 3), and honestly, having Shaun Johnson as a halfback compared to Sezer or Williams can account for that. Additionally, CNK is more comfortable on the right side. We played to Wighton, whereas Warriors play right to Johnson as their primary.

I agree we have issues in our structures in attack (coach related), but I do think you are exaggerating changes in CNK’s game.

[Botman]

I watch most games every weekend. Including the warriors.

He is decisive, quick hands and accurate hands
**** last year he even hit a few cut out balls to his winger in structure. He was and did none of these things with us. He was a handbrake. Ball died in his hands far too much. Which is why many, including me, felt we had to move in another direction.

He was hesitant, slow decision maker and really only promoted the football when he had eions of time/space or in a tackle breaking offload situation

My eyes saw a dramatically improved footballer re: ball playing.

[TongueFTW]

I watch most games every weekend. Including the warriors.

He is decisive, quick hands and accurate hands
**** last year he even hit a few cut out balls to his winger in structure. He was and did none of these things with us. He was a handbrake. Ball died in his hands far too much. Which is why many, including me, felt we had to move in another direction.

He was hesitant, slow decision maker and really only promoted the football when he had eions of time/space or in a tackle breaking offload situation

My eyes saw a dramatically improved footballer re: ball playing.

Do you think it has to do with him being more comfortable on the right side, and Warriors, via Johnson, being right side dominant? Even still, 6 vs. 3 Try Assists is not a monumental improvement.

[kiwi raider]

DWZ scored 21 tries last year, i'd be staggered if CNK didnt play a major part in at least half of those whether he got the TA for it is another matter.
Johnson is obviously a major factor, but so is the attacking structure(coaching)

[Botman]

I don’t think the right side thing has much to do with it
When he was with us most of his high value touches came on the right too, but certainly getting ball fed to you by SJ instead of Fogarty is going to help. SJ is the threat and teams focus on him in a way they wouldn’t for Fog.

He is playing in structure, reading and reacting and making good and quick decisions. Even how he angles his run to be more direct and straight up that side to open the space has been improved based on what I saw last year. And critically for me he continued to get better and more comfortable as the year went on, which suggests to me it was an area of his game that was consciously and purposefully being developed

If he gets a quick pass on to the centre who due to his good work now has a two on one with the winger, the centres gets the TA credit when DWZ scores untouched, but the try is created by the work inside. So the numbers I’m less concerned with. He’s additive to their attack, he is able to create chances with passing, where he was a ball stopper for us and his creative game only came via tackle breaks and line breaks.

I just think watching him, he’s improved as an attacking fullback by leaps and bounds. If you want to say “3 vs 6… it’s not that much improvement” … cool, but i trust my eyes and what i see. And I see significant improvement

And i say that as someone who said i thought this wasn’t in his skill set, and he’s proved me wrong, and apparently I never admit to being wrong so take that for what it’s worth. And thrilled to be wrong. He’s a gem of a bloke and someone I want nothing but success for.