-TW- wrote: ↑February 16, 2024, 8:33 pm
So games he's racking up 150, 160, 170, 180+ metres consistently isn't setting the world on fire?
Just say you don't watch the games
Not saying he is a bad player. I'm saying the discussion that he is streets ahead of Saulo isn't correct.
I've just told you, I have watched the games.
This thread has somehow morphed into a Harry Potter v Voldemort scenario where only one of Saulo and Mooney can live. I think that's the result of the (very valid) concern that Ricky won't give Mooney a decent crack at first grade and every middle we sign/re-sign is just another guy to block his chances.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that Saulo will block Mooney, so am not as invested in this comparison as some.
But while you might be able to argue Trey isn't streets ahead of Saulo, it's clear he's already shown more in his 5 NRL games than Saulo has in his 49 NRL games. Saulo has had 10 times the opportunity to show us his potential but has never had a game like Mooney did against the Knights in the finals. Neither has Saulo ever dominated NSW Cup over a decent period of time like Mooney has.
So maybe we say Mooney isn't streets ahead right now but the argument is more about potential. Mooney's ceiling is so much higher and he should be given a shot before Saulo in my opinion.
-TW- wrote: ↑February 16, 2024, 8:33 pm
So games he's racking up 150, 160, 170, 180+ metres consistently isn't setting the world on fire?
Just say you don't watch the games
Not saying he is a bad player. I'm saying the discussion that he is streets ahead of Saulo isn't correct.
I've just told you, I have watched the games.
This thread has somehow morphed into a Harry Potter v Voldemort scenario where only one of Saulo and Mooney can live. I think that's the result of the (very valid) concern that Ricky won't give Mooney a decent crack at first grade and every middle we sign/re-sign is just another guy to block his chances.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that Saulo will block Mooney, so am not as invested in this comparison as some.
But while you might be able to argue Trey isn't streets ahead of Saulo, it's clear he's already shown more in his 5 NRL games than Saulo has in his 49 NRL games. Saulo has had 10 times the opportunity to show us his potential but has never had a game like Mooney did against the Knights in the finals. Neither has Saulo ever dominated NSW Cup over a decent period of time like Mooney has.
So maybe we say Mooney isn't streets ahead right now but the argument is more about potential. Mooney's ceiling is so much higher and he should be given a shot before Saulo in my opinion.
Correct. And Saulo was not a standout in nsw cup for Newcastle when we signed him, so the argument is why did he get a full season to prove he is a safe, middle of the road player rather than mooney, who had already shown more in cup than Saulo prior to kick off last year.
Northern Raider wrote: ↑February 17, 2024, 4:49 pm
Reading through this thread has me thoroughly confused. How does re-signing Saulo mean losing Mooney?
As it likely reduces opportunities for Mooney considerably. The signing decisions tell us what the coaches are thinking.
-TW- wrote: ↑February 16, 2024, 8:33 pm
So games he's racking up 150, 160, 170, 180+ metres consistently isn't setting the world on fire?
Just say you don't watch the games
Not saying he is a bad player. I'm saying the discussion that he is streets ahead of Saulo isn't correct.
I've just told you, I have watched the games.
This thread has somehow morphed into a Harry Potter v Voldemort scenario where only one of Saulo and Mooney can live. I think that's the result of the (very valid) concern that Ricky won't give Mooney a decent crack at first grade and every middle we sign/re-sign is just another guy to block his chances.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that Saulo will block Mooney, so am not as invested in this comparison as some.
But while you might be able to argue Trey isn't streets ahead of Saulo, it's clear he's already shown more in his 5 NRL games than Saulo has in his 49 NRL games. Saulo has had 10 times the opportunity to show us his potential but has never had a game like Mooney did against the Knights in the finals. Neither has Saulo ever dominated NSW Cup over a decent period of time like Mooney has.
So maybe we say Mooney isn't streets ahead right now but the argument is more about potential. Mooney's ceiling is so much higher and he should be given a shot before Saulo in my opinion.
Can't argue with a lot of what you say. But for me Mooney isn't as good as what many make out. Happy to be proven wrong but I dont think he is in our best 17 right now. IMO, Saulo is deserving of a spot in our 17 and deserves to be resigned.
Initially I was surprised that Ata was ahead of Mooney in the pecking order but late last year it became very clear as to why that had happened.
I'm comfortable with Mooney being the last one of our middles to be locked in. I hope he stays but won't be too phased to see him depart.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
-TW- wrote: ↑February 16, 2024, 8:33 pm
So games he's racking up 150, 160, 170, 180+ metres consistently isn't setting the world on fire?
Just say you don't watch the games
Not saying he is a bad player. I'm saying the discussion that he is streets ahead of Saulo isn't correct.
I've just told you, I have watched the games.
This thread has somehow morphed into a Harry Potter v Voldemort scenario where only one of Saulo and Mooney can live. I think that's the result of the (very valid) concern that Ricky won't give Mooney a decent crack at first grade and every middle we sign/re-sign is just another guy to block his chances.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that Saulo will block Mooney, so am not as invested in this comparison as some.
But while you might be able to argue Trey isn't streets ahead of Saulo, it's clear he's already shown more in his 5 NRL games than Saulo has in his 49 NRL games. Saulo has had 10 times the opportunity to show us his potential but has never had a game like Mooney did against the Knights in the finals. Neither has Saulo ever dominated NSW Cup over a decent period of time like Mooney has.
So maybe we say Mooney isn't streets ahead right now but the argument is more about potential. Mooney's ceiling is so much higher and he should be given a shot before Saulo in my opinion.
Joe Tapine
Josh Papalii
Corey Horsburgh
Emre Guler
Ata Mariota
Morgan Smithies
Hohepa Puru
Peter Hola
Pasami Saulo
Trey Mooney
That’s over 1/3 of the top 30 that are rigid middle third forwards. Suggesting Saulo’s re-signing doesn’t directly influence Mooney’s future is disingenuous imo.
-TW- wrote: ↑February 16, 2024, 8:33 pm
So games he's racking up 150, 160, 170, 180+ metres consistently isn't setting the world on fire?
Just say you don't watch the games
Not saying he is a bad player. I'm saying the discussion that he is streets ahead of Saulo isn't correct.
I've just told you, I have watched the games.
This thread has somehow morphed into a Harry Potter v Voldemort scenario where only one of Saulo and Mooney can live. I think that's the result of the (very valid) concern that Ricky won't give Mooney a decent crack at first grade and every middle we sign/re-sign is just another guy to block his chances.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that Saulo will block Mooney, so am not as invested in this comparison as some.
But while you might be able to argue Trey isn't streets ahead of Saulo, it's clear he's already shown more in his 5 NRL games than Saulo has in his 49 NRL games. Saulo has had 10 times the opportunity to show us his potential but has never had a game like Mooney did against the Knights in the finals. Neither has Saulo ever dominated NSW Cup over a decent period of time like Mooney has.
So maybe we say Mooney isn't streets ahead right now but the argument is more about potential. Mooney's ceiling is so much higher and he should be given a shot before Saulo in my opinion.
Joe Tapine
Josh Papalii
Corey Horsburgh
Emre Guler
Ata Mariota
Morgan Smithies
Hohepa Puru
Peter Hola
Pasami Saulo
Trey Mooney
That’s over 1/3 of the top 30 that are rigid middle third forwards. Suggesting Saulo’s re-signing doesn’t directly influence Mooney’s future is disingenuous imo.
Smithies and Puru are not exclusively middles.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
BadnMean wrote: ↑February 17, 2024, 10:28 pm
Saulo played a big game today- good on him.
Yes he did BnM. It was exactly the kind of performance wanted after a player has re-signed. Not at all like Bronson Harrison, take the money and go to sleep, about Saulo. I think the competition for a FG place is a battle between Guler and Saulo. Saulo has more pace and I think is more suited to Footy in 2024. Particularly in the heat of the early season. His goal line defence was very good in the first trial match too.
I think we will see the FG pack and bench look like:
Tapine, Woolford, Ata, Young, EW and Smithies with Starling, Papa, Saulo and Mooney on the bench. A blend of youth and experience. The interchange for me would be Papa on for Tapine so maintaining an experienced Prop and Mooney on for Ata, building the FG experience of both younger men.
BadnMean wrote: ↑February 17, 2024, 10:28 pm
Saulo played a big game today- good on him.
Yes he did BnM. It was exactly the kind of performance wanted after a player has re-signed. Not at all like Bronson Harrison, take the money and go to sleep, about Saulo. I think the competition for a FG place is a battle between Guler and Saulo. Saulo has more pace and I think is more suited to Footy in 2024. Particularly in the heat of the early season. His goal line defence was very good in the first trial match too.
I think we will see the FG pack and bench look like:
Tapine, Woolford, Ata, Young, EW and Smithies with Starling, Papa, Saulo and Mooney on the bench. A blend of youth and experience. The interchange for me would be Papa on for Tapine so maintaining an experienced Prop and Mooney on for Ata, building the FG experience of both younger men.
He did look a bit more mobile than last season- I honestly think he broke more tackles last night than all of last season. He was out for long term injuries (multiple?) prior to last year so maybe he's found a step with full strength and fitness. If he can keep doing that when we bump up against full strength packs he'll have as strong a case as any.
BadnMean wrote: ↑February 17, 2024, 10:28 pm
Saulo played a big game today- good on him.
Yes he did BnM. It was exactly the kind of performance wanted after a player has re-signed. Not at all like Bronson Harrison, take the money and go to sleep, about Saulo. I think the competition for a FG place is a battle between Guler and Saulo. Saulo has more pace and I think is more suited to Footy in 2024. Particularly in the heat of the early season. His goal line defence was very good in the first trial match too.
I think we will see the FG pack and bench look like:
Tapine, Woolford, Ata, Young, EW and Smithies with Starling, Papa, Saulo and Mooney on the bench. A blend of youth and experience. The interchange for me would be Papa on for Tapine so maintaining an experienced Prop and Mooney on for Ata, building the FG experience of both younger men.
I would agree with this. I would personally have Hosking on the bench instead of one of the props but I'd also be happy with the above noting that Mooney has played a decent bit of edge and lock.
I think the trial was the best game I've seen Saulo play. I'm not sure how much of that is to do with the opposition being midway between an NRL and NSW Cup standard (probably more NSW Cup) but he did seem more willing than last year. I have him ahead of Guler who still looks slow. Everything after Guler's first hit up to open the game was quite pedestrian. If the bench looks like the above, I'd have Saulo as the low minute guy.
If only Loghan Lewis had more size he could be a really effective benchie for us. I have no idea how old he is and I'd never seen him before the trial but he really ripped in and his defence was impressive. If he had the size of Guler, Hola etc he'd be a hell of a player.
"The game owes me nothing, I owe the game everything." - Alan Tongue
I'm one of saulo's critics, that trial was the best I've seen from him since he debuted.
A few years since that horrible broken leg maybe the contract extension is the confidence he needs to kick on.
I've still got him with Guler at 18th man though with all forwards fit.
This week's trial once we see Smithies and Hosking should give us a better read
Surprised he is getting such big wraps out of that trial, I though he was pretty average in his first stint with the Eels dominating the middle. It was Hola and Ata that eventually got the team going forward. Second stint was much better but it was against NSW cup and Flegg players.
NoMan wrote: ↑February 19, 2024, 8:41 am
Surprised he is getting such big wraps out of that trial, I though he was pretty average in his first stint with the Eels dominating the middle. It was Hola and Ata that eventually got the team going forward. Second stint was much better but it was against NSW cup and Flegg players.
We hardly had the ball in his first stint. Overall he topped the tackle and and forward run metres.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑February 20, 2024, 6:19 am
Tapine is clearly our best prop. Last season Horsburgh overtook Papa as our second best. Mariota is behind those three and Saulo comes in fifth.
Mooney has this season to show why he takes Papa's spot moving forward. He has the ability to do it.
5 or 6 genuine front rowers is a good number to have in the first grade squad.
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That's the key to Mooney's contract situation. It's in his own best interests to hold off signing a new deal until he can get more time at NRL level. Backing himself to perform at a high level and maximise the value of his next deal. Whether that's an extension with Raiders or an offer from rival clubs.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑February 20, 2024, 6:19 am
Tapine is clearly our best prop. Last season Horsburgh overtook Papa as our second best. Mariota is behind those three and Saulo comes in fifth.
Mooney has this season to show why he takes Papa's spot moving forward. He has the ability to do it.
5 or 6 genuine front rowers is a good number to have in the first grade squad.
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Don't forget Guler who is 4th or 5th on Ricky's chart. Hola is there as well. With Patuki-Case on the books they have to lose 3 or 4 props to get down to 5 or 6 for next year. Although I think Ricky will run with at least 8 again.
BadnMean wrote: ↑February 17, 2024, 10:28 pm
Saulo played a big game today- good on him.
Yes he did BnM. It was exactly the kind of performance wanted after a player has re-signed. Not at all like Bronson Harrison, take the money and go to sleep, about Saulo. I think the competition for a FG place is a battle between Guler and Saulo. Saulo has more pace and I think is more suited to Footy in 2024. Particularly in the heat of the early season. His goal line defence was very good in the first trial match too.
I think we will see the FG pack and bench look like:
Tapine, Woolford, Ata, Young, EW and Smithies with Starling, Papa, Saulo and Mooney on the bench. A blend of youth and experience. The interchange for me would be Papa on for Tapine so maintaining an experienced Prop and Mooney on for Ata, building the FG experience of both younger men.
I would agree with this. I would personally have Hosking on the bench instead of one of the props but I'd also be happy with the above noting that Mooney has played a decent bit of edge and lock.
I think the trial was the best game I've seen Saulo play. I'm not sure how much of that is to do with the opposition being midway between an NRL and NSW Cup standard (probably more NSW Cup) but he did seem more willing than last year. I have him ahead of Guler who still looks slow. Everything after Guler's first hit up to open the game was quite pedestrian. If the bench looks like the above, I'd have Saulo as the low minute guy.
If only Loghan Lewis had more size he could be a really effective benchie for us. I have no idea how old he is and I'd never seen him before the trial but he really ripped in and his defence was impressive. If he had the size of Guler, Hola etc he'd be a hell of a player.
Loughan Lewis was the best forward on the park in Nsw cup finals when basically the whole team was called up to first grade. He was immense that game and really ripped in when the team was struggling. His size from the admittedly very small sample size doesn't seem to count against him as he rarely gets dominated in tackles and he hits in d, very dale fanucan type. He is a real smokey for firsts if there are a few injuries in the forwards.
In terms of saulo there is a ceiling but the floor is solid. He was the knights best forward by a margin when they weren't going so well and the trial was much closer to that form. Tackle hard, run hard, quick play the ball and he can be very effective.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑February 20, 2024, 6:19 am
Tapine is clearly our best prop. Last season Horsburgh overtook Papa as our second best. Mariota is behind those three and Saulo comes in fifth.
Mooney has this season to show why he takes Papa's spot moving forward. He has the ability to do it.
5 or 6 genuine front rowers is a good number to have in the first grade squad.
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Don't forget Guler who is 4th or 5th on Ricky's chart. Hola is there as well. With Patuki-Case on the books they have to lose 3 or 4 props to get down to 5 or 6 for next year. Although I think Ricky will run with at least 8 again.
Yeah, I definitely have Guler and Hola low on the list at this stage. Mooney can easily jump both into that top 6 list, and go from there after Papa calls it quits.
